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Breloom (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Seven Deadly Sins, Apr 30, 2011.

  1. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Breloom

    [Overview]

    <p>As one of the most overlooked and most difficult threats in DPP, Breloom has both benefited from, and been damaged by, the transition to BW. On one hand, the new sleep mechanics make Breloom extremely difficult to deal with. On the other, Poison Heal Gliscor is a nearly insurmountable enemy for most Breloom sets, as it resists Focus Punch, is neutral to Seed Bomb, and is immune to Spore once Poison Heal is activated. However, Breloom is still an incredibly lethal Pokemon, and its monstrous STAB Focus Punch is nothing to be trifled with.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Leech Seed
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Focus Punch
    item: Toxic Orb
    nature: Impish
    ability: Poison Heal
    evs: 236 HP / 56 Atk / 216 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While 60 / 80 / 60 defenses may seem rather awful, Breloom's incredible defensive typing makes it more than capable of taking hits from some top Pokemon in OU. Combine this with the buff to sleep in BW, as well as Poison Heal and Substitute, and Breloom can prove itself to be far tougher to kill than its stat spread would imply.</p>

    <p>Spore is a must-have on pretty much every Breloom set, as it is the only 100% accurate sleep move in the game, and with BW's sleep mechanics, a Pokemon put to sleep often might as well be KOed. Leech Seed goes a long way to bolster Breloom's survivability, allowing it to wear down opponents while simultaneously refilling its own HP. Substitute compounds this by allowing Breloom to scout switches and stall out Pokemon affected by Leech Seed. It also works especially well on this set due to the significant healing from Leech Seed and Poison Heal combined. Finally, Focus Punch rounds out the set. Even though this set has no defensive investment, it still reaches 296 Attack, and when that's combined with a STAB 150 Base Power attack like Focus Punch, it gives a defensive set like this one some vicious power.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The defensive investment on this set makes it surprisingly durable. Ferrothorn is unable to break Breloom's Substitutes in one hit, making it easy to set up on. It can also (almost always) take a Jolly Choice Band Terrakion's Close Combat. This makes Breloom an excellent way to deal with some scary sweepers, as it can survive their attacks with ease and put them to sleep. 236 HP EVs give Breloom 320 HP, which is divisible by 8, giving it maximum healing from Poison Heal. Defense is nearly maximized, and the remaining EVs are put into Attack for a little extra oomph on Focus Punch.</p>

    <p>This set does have a number of notable counters that need to be eliminated for it to function optimally. This Breloom finds Gliscor incredibly hard to deal with, as Poison Heal makes it immune to Spore while counteracting Leech Seed's damage. It also resists Focus Punch, and takes barely any damage from it. As such, it's important to have a teammate that can either deal with or lure it in and kill it. Expert Belt Landorus is especially effective as a teammate since it can lure in Gliscor and dispatch it with Hidden Power Ice. It can also deal with another major counter, Celebi, with U-turn.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubPunch
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Focus Punch
    move 4: Seed Bomb / Stone Edge / Facade
    item: Toxic Orb
    nature: Adamant
    ability: Poison Heal
    evs: 12 HP / 252 Def / 244 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While the previous set is more defensively oriented, this set is all about the power. A max Attack Adamant Focus Punch from Breloom is one of the most vicious attacks in the game, capable of OHKOing virtually anything that doesn't resist it, and 2HKOing many Pokemon that do. While this set sacrifices durability somewhat, the increased offensive power and additional coverage makes it much more threatening.</p>

    <p>Spore is here as always, as sleep allows Breloom to set up for free while also incapacitating whatever the opponent switches in. Substitute gives Breloom the buffer that it needs to fire off its powerful STAB Focus Punch, and works well with Poison Heal to heal off the damage. Focus Punch turns Breloom's targets into a fine red mist, and is a huge part of why this set is so threatening behind a Substitute. The last move is used to provide coverage and give Breloom a way to attack without a Substitute up. Seed Bomb is secondary STAB, and also allows Breloom to do incredible damage to threatening Pokemon such as Quagsire, Swampert, and Gastrodon. It also hits Jellicent, which is immune to Focus Punch. Stone Edge hits Flying-types, such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Thundurus, and also does solid damage to Gengar. Facade is the most powerful third option after the boost from poison, and provides decent neutral coverage, but doesn't have any important super effective coverage to speak of.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread on this set is simple. Attack is maximized for optimal damage output, and 12 HP gives Breloom an HP value divisible by 8 for Poison Heal. The rest is placed into Speed in order to allow Breloom to outspeed uninvested base 100s, as well as some uninvested or low-investment mid-Speed Pokemon such as Rotom-W, Dragonite, and Heatran.</p>

    <p>As with all Breloom sets, Gliscor and Celebi give this set hell. Expert Belt Landorus is an amazing partner for this reason, as it can potentially lure both of them by bluffing Choice Scarf Earthquake and then dispatching them with Hidden Power Ice and U-turn respectively. There are also a number of Pokemon that can cause problems depending on the choice of third attack. Without Stone Edge, Dragonite can be a major issue, so pairing Breloom up with something that can eliminate Dragonite is a good idea. Landorus fits this bill nicely, and Bronzong can do the same while also providing Stealth Rock for the team. With Facade, it's important to have a check to Ghost-types, as it leaves Breloom completely unable to damage them. As such, including a strong Pursuit user on your team such as Tyranitar or Scizor can be important.

    [Other Options]

    <p>Breloom has a couple of useful moves in its arsenal that don't see a lot of use, but still have some niche applications. Drain Punch's BW buff makes it a significantly more appealing option than it was in the previous generation, but its main issue is the lack of power- — Breloom's big draw is its incredibly powerful Focus Punch, and without it, it's much less threatening. Bullet Seed's buff from 10 to 25 Base Power makes it marginally viable, as it has a 62.5% chance to have 75+ Base Power, making it comparable to Seed Bomb on average. However, Grass isn't an especially useful multi-hit typing, considering the fact that the big abusers of Substitute, which are primarily Grass resists, aren't especially afraid of it. On top of that, it's unreliable, which makes it a problem.</p>

    <p>While the big draw of Breloom is its devastating SubPunch sets, it's got a few other options that it can utilize effectively. As with all Grass-types, Breloom gets Swords Dance. This can make it an effective sweeper, as it has access to STAB priority in the form of Mach Punch, and also has decent two or three move coverage. However, it tends to lack in power, and the prevalence of Gliscor and Dragonite can cause severe issues for it. It can also run a dual status set with both Spore and Stun Spore, as the new sleep mechanics and Breloom's general threat level make it unlikely that opponents will stay in, but generally paralyzing something is less effective than simply setting up a Substitute and preparing for some Focus Punches. An "all-out attacker" set can also be used, with Life Orb, Superpower over Focus Punch, and a third coverage move instead of Substitute, but Breloom's comparative frailty, low Speed, and lack of Substitute makes it unappealing for the role.</p>

    <p>Choice Scarf Breloom can outspeed anything with less than 130 base Speed and put it to sleep. However, using Spore on a Choiced Pokemon is a questionable decision, as it largely negates the benefit of sleep, especially considering the new mechanics. Since Breloom is forced to switch out after Spore, the Spored Pokemon can stay in and attempt to wake up. Superpower can also be an issue, as each use weakens Breloom significantly, forcing it to switch out afterwards. A Choice Band set can also be devastating, as STAB Superpower from 591 Attack is nothing to scoff at, but Breloom is hard pressed to switch into attacks without any investment or Poison Heal's benefit. It can function as a decent revenge killer for Excadrill and Terrakion though, due to Mach Punch. Still, its low Speed and poor defenses are off-putting for such a role.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>When it comes to Breloom counters, you just can't beat Gliscor; its massive base 125 Defense and resistance to Fighting allows it to shrug off Focus Punches with ease, while the popularity of Poison Heal just compounds the issue, as it renders Gliscor immune to Spore, and its passive healing also counteracts Leech Seed's effect. On top of that, Gliscor even has the option of using its Flying-type STAB rather than going with mono-Ground coverage. Put all these factors together, and you've got the perfect Pokemon to counter Breloom.</p>

    <p>Celebi is the other major counter to Breloom, as it has excellent base 100 / 100 defenses and resistance to both of Breloom's STABs. It also has Recover, allowing it to effortlessly heal off any damage that it takes from Breloom's attacks. Its Grass typing also makes it immune to Leech Seed, which negates the major threat of Breloom's primary set. Additionally, Natural Cure completely nullifies Spore, allowing Celebi to essentially switch in at any time for free. Celebi also carries Psychic or HP Fire on most of its sets, allowing it to easily dispatch Breloom.</p>

    <p>There are, of course, some other notable problem Pokemon for Breloom. Ghost-types can be troublesome, as they are immune to Focus Punch and usually either faster or extremely bulky. Gengar is especially nasty, as it resists Seed Bomb and can use Disable to remove Breloom's coverage move. Chandelure also resists Seed Bomb due to its Fire typing, though it has to watch out for Stone Edge on the offensive set. Another big problem for Breloom is Pokemon that pack multi-hit moves. Haxorus is the most prevalent, as it can break Breloom's substitute with the first hit of Dual Chop and then prevent the Focus Punch with the second hit. On top of that, Haxorus resists Seed Bomb, the move of choice for the offensive SubPunch set, and has enough defense to take a Stone Edge or Facade if need be. Mamoswine and Cloyster can do the same with Icicle Spear, but they risk getting caught by a Seed Bomb, and are also both weak to Focus Punch and Superpower.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Breloom's Dream World ability, Technician, is absolutely incredible for it. Technician gives Breloom a ton of useful options, and turns it from an irritating staller into an absolute offensive monster. Technician turns a number of offensive options from mediocre to incredible. The most notable one is Mach Punch, which now has the same level of power as Scizor's Bullet Punch, but with a much better typing. Bullet Seed also goes from 50-125 Base Power to 75-187.5 Base Power, making it at worst only slightly less powerful than Seed Bomb, and at best, two and a half times stronger. Breloom also gets two excellent STAB options in Low Sweep and Force Palm. Low Sweep is boosted to a respectable 90 Base Power by Technician, and makes Breloom even harder to deal with by lowering the Speed of whatever switches in by 1 stage. As a result, faster Pokemon that switch into Low Sweep have a major chance to still be slower and have to take a second hit from Breloom before they can attack. Force Palm has the same power, and while it doesn't have a 100% effect rate like Low Sweep, its paralysis infliction can cripple counters for the rest of the match. This makes Breloom an incredible Choice user, as it deals ridiculous damage with Choice Band and is nearly impossible to reliably switch into. It also has all the power it needs as a Swords Dance sweeper, as Mach Punch is much more usable at 60 Base Power than 40.</p>

    original skeleton (open)
    [Overview]
    As one of the most overlooked and most difficult to handle threats in Generation 4, Breloom has both benefited from and been damaged by the transition to Generation 5. On one hand, the new Sleep mechanics make Breloom extremely difficult to deal with. On the other, Poison Heal Gliscor is a nearly insurmountable enemy for most Breloom sets, as it resists Focus Punch, is neutral to Seed Bomb, and is immune to Spore once Poison Heal is activated. However, Breloom is still an incredibly lethal Pokemon, and its monstrous STAB Focus Punch is nothing to be trifled with.

    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Leech Seed
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Focus Punch
    item: Toxic Orb
    nature: Impish
    ability: Poison Heal
    evs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 20 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - SubSeed has incredible survivability once it gets Leech Seed and Poison Heal set up
    - Focus Punch deals with most Grass-types and deals amazing damage from behind a Substitute or on a switch
    - Spore makes it easy to get Sub and/or Seed set up
    - Ferrothorn is unable to break your Substitutes, and other Pokemon are unable to OHKO it, such as +2 Garchomp Dragon Claw and +2 Excadrill Frustration

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - Gliscor is a royal pain in the ass, so be sure to have a lure/counter to it
    - Whimsicott can come in and Encore a Substitute or Leech Seed, but is susceptible to Spore

    [SET]
    name: Offensive SubPunch
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Focus Punch
    move 4: Seed Bomb / Stone Edge / Facade
    item: Toxic Orb
    nature: Adamant
    ability: Poison Heal
    evs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - More offensive than the previous set- aims to set up a Substitute and then kill opponents
    - Focus Punch off of 394 Attack 2HKOs even many resistances, such as Starmie
    - Seed Bomb gives secondary STAB, Stone Edge hits Flying-types and also hits Gengar effectively, and Facade is the most powerful move in the last slot after Toxic Orb activates

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - Again, Gliscor and Celebi are the bane of this set, so deal with them ASAP

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Facade / Stone Edge
    move 3: Seed Bomb
    move 4: Superpower / Sky Uppercut / Mach Punch
    item: Toxic Orb / Life Orb
    nature: Jolly
    ability: Poison Heal
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - Most offensive set
    - Uses superior coverage and Breloom’s excellent power to punish teams
    - Choice of Fighting move depends on Breloom’s role- Superpower requires you to switch out after use, but is Breloom’s strongest option. Sky Uppercut is reliable but not as strong. Mach Punch gives priority, which can be extremely effective against faster sweepers like Excadrill and weakened Garchomp.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - Toxic Orb gives status immunity, healing, and a strong Facade, but Life Orb powers up your other attacks and can be cancelled out if Breloom can switch into Toxic or the opponent sets up Toxic Spikes
    - As always, healthy Gliscor walls this set cold, but Life Orb Seed Bomb can put the hurt on weakened versions as it does 33-39%

    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    - Swords Dance can be kinda scary, but it’s too slow and Mach Punch isn’t strong enough
    - Dual Status can be used with Spore and Stun Spore, but setting up a substitute on the switch is more effective than paralyzing something
    - Choice Scarf allows it to outspeed many top threats and Sleep them before they can hit Breloom, but Choiced Spore / Superpower is questionable at best

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
    - Gliscor or bust
    - Haxorus can Dual Chop its way through Breloom’s Substitutes and cancel Focus Punch
    - Cloyster can do the same, but can’t really switch into attacks because it’s weak to both Focus Punch and Seed Bomb
    - Gengar is immune to Focus Punch and Facade, but 2HKOed by Stone Edge and Seed Bomb
    - Celebi has Natural Cure, resistance to Focus Punch and Seed Bomb, immunity to Leech Seed, and Psychic or HP Fire to break Breloom

    [Dream World]

    - Technician is amazing
    - Boosts Bullet Seed, Mach Punch, Force Palm, Low Sweep, etc
    - Does incredible damage
    - SD Technician is a top tier sweeper
  2. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    last set shouldnt be called an all out attacker. It has the wrong ability too.
  3. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    That set was called All-Out Attacker in Generation 4, and it's absolutely accurate.

    I have fixed the ability, though.
  4. Bugbot

    Bugbot

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    Transition to Generation V, actually.

    All analyses mention Return instead of Frustration. Just keep this in mind.

    Substitute + Focus Punch is also used for the Leech Seed set. Use a different name such as "Agressive Spore Puncher" or something.

    Fix the EVs

    Also, mention Techniloom being amazing once released. Spore + SD + Mach Punch + Bullet Seed can be deadly, but still gets walled by Breloom's regular counters (such as Gliscor and Celebi).
  5. Husky

    Husky

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    Dream World section is missing too. Technician Breloom -once released- will definately have an impact in the metagame with STAB Technician boosted Bullet Seed and Mach Punch (more reliable than Scizor Bullet Punch due to better typing)
  6. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Fixed the above.
  7. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    In the additional comments of the offensive sub+puncher, I would list a jolly spread with 12 hp, 244 atk, 252 spe. This spread let's Breloom outspeed some quicker walls like defensive zapdos, etc.

    Ifm also showed me a bulky set that's worked fairly well

    Breloom w/ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 248 hp; 252 atk; 8 spe
    -Spore
    -Focus Punch
    -Seed Bomb
    -Mach Punch

    This set allows Breloom to be a pretty solid Sandstorm counter, being able to 2HKO Excadril while not taking too much in return unless exca is +2. If you like this set, I can give you some more info.
  8. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Mention Espeon as a check as it stops Breloom with Magic Bounce
  9. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    assuming it has poison heal, how does it check it? normally you should sub first anyway
  10. The Fall of Eden

    The Fall of Eden

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    Don't forget to mention Wake-Up Slap in the Dream World section, even if it is not useful in it's entirety. With Spore, Technician, and STAB, it becomes a rather powerful attack. I am not sure if the increased power from Wake-Up Slap negates Technician, and if it does, it is not as viable. But with 120 power against a sleeping foe, that is nothing to scoff at.
  11. Husky

    Husky

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    When battling Breloom, virtually no one would stay in with a sleeping pokemon as this would give the Breloom user set up time and when the sleeping pokemon faints, the next one stands against a Breloom behind a Substitute and finds itself put asleep as well, unless it has Insomnia / Vital Spirit or runs a fast Taunt. Since this won't happen all too much, it's recommended to use a SleepTalker or just use something as sleep fodder and then try to take it out while it can't put you asleep~
  12. NoJohns

    NoJohns

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    Might want to mention on the Offensive SubPunch set that with Facade in the last slot your basically walled by Ghosts, so a pursuit trapper like Scizor might be useful.
  13. InfernoJesus

    InfernoJesus

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    For counters/checks, magic bounce espeon resists focus punch and is immune to spore/leech seed. Sap sipper sawsbuck is immune to spore/leech seed/seed bomb, but is weak to focus punch.
  14. Lord_Inky

    Lord_Inky

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    What InfernoJesus said. Magic Bounce makes any Breloom set with spore pretty much Null. Magic Coat has the same effect except it takes up a move slot and has to be used but witha priority of +4, it'll still screw over a Breloom big time.
  15. Metric

    Metric is banned in America
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    Magic Bounce Xatu is a better check/counter than Espeon seeing as it resists both STABs and 4x resists fighting. So it should be mentioned over Espeon.

    Also how about Drain Punch in other options as an alternative to Focus Punch? The additional healing is nice alongside Toxic Heal, but it's useful when you can't keep a sub up but need to attack. A good example being Breloom vs. Excadrill.
  16. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Perhaps just mention both? :P
  17. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Since it's currently in the OU-tier, I think you should mention Sigilyph as a counter. Magic Guard negates Leech Seed, and it has a quadruple resistance to Focus Punch and a resistance to Seed Bomb to make it easier to get in. Any Breloom without Stone Edge is easily handled by its Flying- or Psychic-type attacks, and it doesn't really have to fear Spore because it's faster than Breloom is (base-97 versus base-70 speed.)
  18. InfernoJesus

    InfernoJesus

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    That's an interesting option, Sigilyph can use flame/toxic orb really well too, making it immune to spore.
  19. jiggz16

    jiggz16

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    Definitely seconding Sigilyph as a counter. It's my one and only answer to Breloom and it does an awesome job. If it hasn't been burned, I usually let another one of my pokes take the Spore and then switch in Sigilyph on the sub. From there, you can set up Cosmic Powers with ease (even on Stone Edge because you can Roost before it attacks), and then try to run through it with Stored Power or phaze with Whirlwind.
  20. GtM

    GtM

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    Once Technician is released, would Choice Band Breloom be viable in the same vein as Choice Band Scizor?

    -Mach Punch
    -Bullet Seed
    -Low Sweep
    -Rock Tomb

    Whilst this lacks something like U-Turn, it gets two moves with good coverage that lower the opponent's speed, enabling Breloom to 2HKO some bulkier opponents without risk. For example, assuming a 252 speed Adamant spread, Latios is outsped and 2HKO'd by Rock Tomb without risk, unless it runs a Scarf. Dragonite is 2HKO'd even through Multi Scale, Thundurus is also outsped and OHKO'd, whilst Gengar is outsped and 2HKO'd, most Gyarados but 252/252 sets can also be outsped and 2HKO'd. Whilst Scizor can scout using U-Turn and effectively use Pursuit, Breloom simply has more power and coverage, and I think it'll be worth writing up when the ability is released.
  21. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

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    It might just be in the remake of Ruby Sapphire, in fact im pretty sure we'll have to wait for that tbh
  22. InfernoJesus

    InfernoJesus

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    I'd swap low sweep for spore, even with CB spore is infinitely more useful.
  23. Ubiquitous

    Ubiquitous

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    CB technician breloom cannot be played as a pivot like CB scizor. Don't forget most of CB scizor's success was down to an excellent resistances as well as good defensive stats, allowing it to switch in multiple times, plus STAB U-turn. Breloom is far too frail to fill this role, even with a resistance to SR.

    However, using CB Breloom as a revenge killer and late game cleaner is viable. Using Mach Punch, it can revenge that stupid mole reliably, as well as terrakion, etc.
  24. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    I feel like the offensive set should be listed first, with stuff like Taunt Burunguru and Liquid Ooze Tentacruel running around. Also I always wondered this in Gen IV but could never say anything about it: why on earth does the offensive set have 244 Speed EVs? Either max it out or shift more EVs into bulk (I reccomend the latter) unless there's something important that you outspeed that I don't know about.
  25. Brongaa

    Brongaa

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    im pretty sure its so you could get more subs up but im not really sure thats just my guess :P

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