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Gen 5 BW2 Doubles Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Laga, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
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    ~Doubles Viability Ranking Thread~


    Welcome to the official Doubles Viability Rankings topic. You should know the drill by now, since you must have spotted some other threads like this. In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon in the doubles metagame into "tiers". In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in doubles and what tier they should fall under.

    The general idea of the topic is to rank each pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.

    Edit: Now doing write ups; If you want to participate, join #doubles to participate (If Nollan, blank or me (Laga) are on, you should be able to be redirected to the notepad where we construct the write ups.




    PRELIMINARY BW Doubles Ranking tier list

    Everything is subject to change and in alphabetical order!


    S Rank: Reserved for the top threats in the Doubles metagame. The pokemon in this tier are able to perform multiple roles to tremendous effect, whilst having few to no flaws. Support Pokemon in this tier can easily create free turns for their teammates without creating clear openings for the opponent. Any flaws that these Pokemon have can be taken care of with little to no team support.
    Pokemon in S rank (open)

    • [​IMG] Cresselia
      Cresselia by Nollan (open)
      Cresselia is insane. 120/120/130 bulk, Ground immunity, Fighting resistance, it already looks good. But what really makes it stand out is it's massive support movepool. It has moves like Sunny Day for anti-weather and Icy Wind, Trick Room, and Thunder Wave for speed control. More options that are worth a mention include Helping Hand, Dual Screens and Safeguard, all being very useful for almost any team. It can even go offensive, as Expert Belt Cresselia is capable of dealing solid damage through exemplary coverage against the metagame's threats.
    • [​IMG] Hitmontop
      Hitmontop by Lagalag4 (open)
      Hitmontop is one of the most annoying Pokemon to face in the Doubles metagame. It can completely shut down almost any physical attacker with the use of Intimidate, while also being able to use the ever valuable Fake Out right after switching in. Furthermore, Game Freak also decided to give it Wide Guard, Feint, Sucker Punch and Close Combat, making Hitmontop the ultimate bulky Support Attacker, being able to support your team both utility wise and contribute to your team's offensive synergy.
    • [​IMG] Politoed
      Politoed by BlankZero (open)
      Politoed currently has the highest usage in all of Doubles, and for a good reason. It's the only setter of Permanent Rain in the metagame, and with Swift Swim unbanned, it allows for a plethora of high speed sweepers to come in and destroy everything. With access to Perish Song, Helping Hand, Encore, even Swagger, it has a range of support options, and with Rain boosting its Water STABs, it can run a very powerful Choice Specs set, or even a Choice Scarf.
    • [​IMG] Thundurus
      Thundurus by Lagalag4 (open)
      Thundurus works a bit like Hitmontop; It can fill 2 roles with one set. It can both function as a powerful special attacker with awesome BoltBeam coverage, and also provide top-notch support in priority Thunder Wave and Taunt. It's ability to run both an offensive fast set AND a bulky annoyer set is what has pushed Thundurus up to the elite rank of S. Arguably the best Supportive Attacker in the current metagame
    • [​IMG] Tyranitar
      Tyranitar by BlankZero (open)
      Tyranitar is an awesome sight to behold in the Doubles metagame. As one of the best Cresselia counters, it shines in this metagame more than it ever did in Singles. With access to a strong spread move in STAB Rock Slide, a large variety of attacking moves, both Physical and Special attacking capabilities, a massive Attack stat, and solid bulk, TTar is a great fit on many teams, even those that aren't dedicated Sand teams. It also is the second slowest of the common Weather Starters (only Abomasnow is slower), meaning you can almost always guarantee weather on the first turn.

    A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that function very well within the current Doubles metagame. The pokemon in this tier are either able to perform multiple roles to great effect, or execute one extremely well. Support pokemon in this tier can create free turns, but not as easily as those in the S Rank.The flaws that the pokemon in this tier may have are usually mitigated by their positive traits, or with minimal team support.
    Pokemon in A rank (open)

    • [​IMG] Abomasnow
    • [​IMG] Amoonguss
      Amoonguss by Lagalag4 (open)
      This is undoubtedly tied as the most annoying Pokemon in the metagame, together with Togekiss. It's ability to redirect attacks from it's teammates whilst also being able to use Spore makes it tailor-made for Trick Room teams, although it's not limited to just those archetypes. It also comes with nifty resistances to Water, Fighting, Electric and Grass, as well as access to Regenerator, making it that much better at doing it's main job; letting it's teammates survive another turn.
    • [​IMG] Breloom
      Breloom by BlankZero (open)
      Breloom is game-changing Pokemon in Doubles, even moreso than in Singles. It's standard set is a huge threat to a lot of teams, with Spore taking out a key threat several turns, Mach Punch bringing priority and Bullet Seed giving it a way to break Sashes and Subs. It can also run Low Sweep to lower the speed of a would-be counter, or Stone Edge to hit things like Thundurus. While it doesn't effectively run Swords Dance sets due to the fact that two Pokemon are facing it, it still had a solid 130 base attack and Technician which allow it to hit the opposing Pokemon hard and fast.
    • [​IMG] Conkeldurr
      Conkeldurr by Darkmalice (open)
      Conkeldurr deals very high damage, damage which can become incredible with a LO. Strong priority, and great coverage with Fighting- and either Ice- or Rock- type attacks. Great bulk, especially for such a powerhouse, which makes Sitrus Berry viable on it if you don't want LO recoil, or Fist Plate as a compromise between power and bulk. This is only further supported by Drain Punch should you use it, which I personally believe is better than Hammer Arm but it's hard to ignore its raw power. Only 2 weaknesses, making OHKOing it difficult, and with its coverage move, it can actually OHKO a lot of Flying-types in Trick Room. Arguably the best offensive Pokemon in Trick Room and still great outside it. The fact that the #1, #2 and #3 players in VGC Worlds last year had it on their team is a testament as to how good Conkeldurr is
    • [​IMG] Excadrill
      Excadrill by Lagalag4 (open)
      Since Tyranitar is such a bulky pokemon and hard-hitter, there is no doubt that Sand is an easy weather war to win most of the time, and when Excadrill has sand, you will see results almost guaranteed. In Sandstorm, even Adamant Excadrill will outspeed anything unboosted, even Deoxys-S, and with a Life Orb, it will be hitting extremely hard off of it's wonderful base 135 Attack stat and useful SlideQuake coverage alongside Iron Head, Substitute or X-scissor as other viable options. It's immunity to Thunder Wave just makes it even better, as it deals much better with Thundurus than Swift Swim and Chlorophyll abusers.
    • [​IMG] Garchomp
      Garchomp by Nollan (open)
      Garchomp is truly a menace in Doubles. It is the best Dragon/Ground pokemon in Doubles, which gives it a handy Thunder Wave immunity. To make matters better, it has a wonderful base 102 speed paired with base 130 attack. Add in STAB Dragon Claw and Earthquake, and you've got a real threat on your hands. It has many options, such as Substitute, Swords Dance, and Rock Slide. While this may make it look nigh unstoppable, it suffers from a heavy Ice weakness. While this can be remedied partially by a Yache Berry, faster Dragons, namely Latios and Swift Swim Kingdra, or bulky Dragons, like Kyurem-Black, can destroy it with their Dragon type moves. This does not stop Garchomp though, it is an excellent choice for any team in need of a powerful Dragon.
    • [​IMG] Genesect
      Genesect by Lagalag4 (open)
      Genesect has amazing coverage and is almost always able to hit one of the opponent's pokemon super-effectively. It's ability in Download is also the reason why it is one of the few pokemon that works with a Choice Scarf. The ability to hit from both sides of the spectrum allows it to hit a lot of things for solid damage. Its Bug/Steel typing is also a blessing, giving it just one weakness and resistances to many common attacking types, like Dragon and Ice.
    • [​IMG] Gyarados
      Gyarados by lucariojr (open)
      While Gyarados doesn't have the most attractive weaknesses or a high powered STAB move to abuse, its stats, speed control options, and Intimidate enable Gyarados to be a fairly versatile tank. Icy Wind and Thunder Wave comprise its more conventional speed control options, but it is more than capable of running a Dragon Dance set, which is impressive because boosting moves are a rare sight in Doubles. While it certainly isn't going to be sweeping entire teams, it is more than capable of punching holes and slowing down or incapitating threats. Just keep it away from Electric-types.
    • [​IMG] Heatran
      Heatran by Lagalag4 (open)
      Heatran has a huge amount of resistances and very few weaknesses, by virtue of its amazing typing.. Its access to STAB Heat Wave combined with Flash Fire makes it a complete stop to Sun Teams, while also being able to threaten standard goodstuff teams with generally powerful Heat Waves. It is also one of the best users of Substitute due to it's many resistances, and a Heatran behing a Sub is not a good sight for your opponent.
    • [​IMG] Hydreigon
      Hydreigon by Nollan (open)
      Arguably the best special attacking Dragon, Hydreigon stands ready to shred unprepared teams. Its Dragon/Dark typing is unique, and can be used to give trouble to various Trick Room teams by heavily damaging or taunting their setters. Apart from the obvious item-boosted Draco Meteor and/or Dark Pulse, it has many other options. Some of these options include Earth Power, Flamethrower/Heat Wave, Tailwind, Surf, and Taunt. While you might think its awkward 98 base speed would hold it back, it doesn't truly mind as long as some support is around, and base 125 SpA allows it to hit incredibly hard. Its Dark typing, however, can also be its downfall, giving it a crippling Fighting weakness and an additional Bug weakness. Luckily for the three-headed monster, its raw power takes more than that to calm.
    • [​IMG] Jirachi
    • [​IMG] Kingdra
      Kingdra by BlankZero (open)
      Kingdra is the premiere Swift Swim abuser of the Doubles metagame. With only one weakness, a few useful resistances, and access to the fastest Draco Meteor under Rain in the game, it's one threat every team should be prepared for. It can easily run a mixed set with its balanced stats, but most prefer to run a specially-based set. With access to Draco Meteor/Outrage, Waterfall/Hydro Pump, Surf/Muddy Water, Substitute, and even Blizzard, Quash, Diasble and Yawn, it has a wide array of options.
    • [​IMG] Kyurem-B
      Kyurem-B by BlankZero (open)
      All Hail Kyu-B! With 170 Base Attack, a 95 Base Speed and 120 Base Special Attack, Kyurem-Black is a monster and a half, with only Deoxys beating it. However, unlike Deoxys, Kyurem also packs a ton of bulk to live hits all day. Although its movepool is pretty shallow (No Physical Ice STAB other than Freeze Shock) it has the power to muscle through a ton of things without it, and even without Outrage spam (a terrible idea in Doubles), it still slams things super hard with Dragon Claw or even Dragon Tail. A mixed set with Ice Beam or Blizzard is also a great option.
    • [​IMG] Landorus
      Landorus-I by BlanZero (open)
      Landorus Incarnate was recently banned in OU Singles, but not in Doubles! In fact, it's considered UU due its alternate forme being so good. However, Sand Force Landorus is a harder hitter than Lando-T, and has the ability to go Mixed or Special with Sheer Force and a Life Orb. Earthquake, Rock Slide, U-turn, Earth Power, Psychic, Hidden Power Ice. All of these are fairly common moves found on Landorus, and with its Base 101 Speed, it's definitely a force to be reckoned with in and out of Sand.

    • [​IMG] Landorus-T
      Landorus-Therian by Nollan (open)
      One of the biggest changes for Doubles was in the shift from BW to BW2, giving us different forme of some already great Mons. Landorus-Therian is a great example of that. STAB Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Intimidate, all with 145 base attack. U-turn and Imprison are also effective options, and a Scarf set is also a viable choice. Ice and Water weakness can be annoying to deal with, but this is offset by Ground and Electric immunity, and Fighting resistance, making Landorus-Therian a great choice for a team, capable of stopping most physical attackers in their tracks.
    • [​IMG] Latios
      Latios by BlankZero (open)
      Timid Latios is the benchmark for Special Defense in Doubles. Dragon Gem Draco Meteor is so devastating that people will often EV their Pokemon with that move in mind, which goes to show just how centralizing it is. It also has one of the highest speed tiers, Base 110, making it a speedy, very powerful threat. It has a great variety of moves to complement its power, including Surf, Psychic/Psyshock, and Hidden Power (Fire). It even gets Helping Hand, Dual Screens, Tailwind, and Thunder Wave, although these moves are usually better on Latios' twin, Latias.
    • [​IMG] Ludicolo
      Ludicolo by Lagalag4 (open)
      Although Ludicolo faces tough competition from Kingdra as a Swift Swimmer, Fake Out and Giga Dain let it fit certain teams better than Kingdra. Giga Drain hits the popular Rain "counters" in Rotom-W and Gastrodon for extreme damage. Fake Out is as useful on Ludicolo just as much as any other pokemon, especially since it has the fastest Fake Out in the entire metagame when under Rain. Otherwise, it is just 5 base SpA points behind Kingdra in spamming Surf and Hydro Pump, so it definitely has a lot going for itself.
    • [​IMG] Mamoswine
      Mamoswine by Nollan (open)
      Mamoswine has stellar coverage with its STAB alone. Ice and Ground mix together to hit many threats for massive damage. It also has the useful priority Ice Shard, allowing it to finish off weakened threats with ease. Its typing grants it a nifty Thunder Wave immunity, something it prizes most dearly. It is also one of the onlyPokemon that cannot be damaged by both hail and sand, making it a great abuser of Focus Sash. With its Thick Fat, it can offset its Fire weakness, and resist the ever-so-popular Ice attacks.
    • [​IMG] Manaphy
      Manaphy by Nollan (open)
      Manaphy is perhaps one of the most annoying sea creatures you will ever face. With rain up, it can repeatedly Rest off damage and wake up immediately due to Hydration, while boosting its mighty Surfs with Tail Glow. Add in a little Rage Powder support, and it's a complete monster. Solid Rain checks like Gastrodon and Rotom-Wash are shredded by Energy Ball without a chance to react, and any damage you can pull off it just Rested away. It can also make use of moves like Ice Beam, Signal Beam, and Helping Hand. Unfortunately, this "monster" is completely reliant on rain to function, so removing that will lead to its ruin. It also has trouble with faster threats, such as Latios, offensive Thundurus, Thundurus-Therian, and others.
    • [​IMG] Metagross
      Metagross by Nollan (open)
      Metagross is a titan of old. It has filled the legends of doubles for years, and this has not changed. Clear Body allows it to ignore Icy Wind and Intimidate, and Steel/Psychic typing, 80/130/90 defenses, and a ferocious base 135 attack back it up, making it a top threat if played right. Its skill is boosted further by a solid movepool, including Meteor Mash, Zen Headbutt, Earthquake, Bullet Punch and Ice Punch. Its long history has given it a variety of sets, such as Choice Band, Steel Gem, Shuca/Occa Berry, and more. However, Metagross has run into a lot of competition recently. A new ability in Defiant, and popular abusers of it like Tornadus and Bisharp have been challenging Metagross's role. Still, while Metagross may be challenged more than ever, nothing says doubles like experience, and Metagross has a lot of it.
    • [​IMG] Rotom-W
      Rotom-Wash by Nollan (open)
      Of all electrical appliances, the washing machine is the best, at least in Rotom's case. With only one weakness to a type that is not very common in Doubles, you can imagine how useful Rotom-Wash can be. It is famous for its ability to run over Rain teams with Choice Specs Thunder. It also can be more supportive, with moves like Thunder Wave and Will O' Wisp,especially since it has awesome bulk to complement it's typing. Even supportive sets will hit hard with it's decentspecial attacking stat.
    • [​IMG] Salamence
      Salamence by Lagalag4 (open)
      Salamence is basically a Jack of all Trades when it comes to doubles. It has a wide variety of features that allow it to perform both offensively and support wise, often both at the same time. With its awesome ability Intimidate and access to Tailwind, it allows for fantastic team support, and when Tailwind is up, it can do good chunks of damage either with a Physical set of Dragon Claw / EQ or a more preferred special set with Heat Wave and Draco Meteor. All this said, Salamence is best working when you need a pokemon to fill multiple roles. If you only need the slot to fill a single role, it will almost always be outclassed, whether it be a Hitmontop for Intimidate or a Latios for Draco Meteor spam.
    • [​IMG] Scizor
      Scizor by Nollan (open)
      This metallic bug is as good in Doubles as it is in Singles, but in a different way. Steel Gem Technician Bullet Punch off a powerful base 130 attack is great for picking off threats, and Bug Bite is even better in Doubles, removing type-resist berries, and stealing 25% HP from Cresselia's Sitrus Berry. To make things better, it has only one weakness and a lot of resistances, courtesy of its Bug/Steel typing. It can also make use of both Swords Dance or Tailwind, to either boost its power, or its speed, or boost its coverage with Superpower. Unfortunately, it's low speed is a noticeable flaw that needs some patching up through other teammates, or by a potential Tailwind foritself.
    • [​IMG] Shaymin-S
      Shaymin-S by noobcubed (open)
      Serene Grace is an annoying ability, and Shamyin-S exploits it as well as anything, giving Air Slash a 60% flinch rate, and Seed Flare a 80% chance to lower a foe's Special Defense by two stages. Additionally, 127 base speed means it will be going first the vast majority of the time, further complementing it's ability to flinch things. It even gets Earth Power for coverage against the pesky Steel types that would otherwise wall Shaymin-S. However, it's not unbeatable: in particular, a double ice weakness hurts, and various weather sweepers and Choice Scarf users can outrun it and prey on its middling defenses.
    • [​IMG] Terrakion
      Terrakion by Nollan (open)
      Terrakion is infamous for its works of true horror in singles. In doubles, it is most commonly known for abusing Beat Up + Justified, but high-level players easily dispatch this. At the high level of play, Terrakion is generally used for offensive support, as Rock and Fighting STAB can cover a large array of threats. It can also abuse Earthquake and X-Scissor for further coverage, and some other options include Substitute, Taunt, etc. It also has fairly efficient bulk, particularly in sand, allowing to tank the majority of neutral attacks. Its high 108 base speed allows it to stand out from the crowd, and it has a base 129 attack to back it up. Terrakion has its flaws, however. It is weak to common priority attacks and spread moves like Bullet Punch, Earthquake, Mach Punch, and Surf. Luckily, the positives outweigh the negatives; it stands as a wonderful choice for a team.
    • [​IMG] Togekiss
    • [​IMG] Tornadus
      Tornadus by Nollan (open)
      Tornadus's Flying Gem Acrobatics is a very powerful attack, more so considering that Intimidate will only boost its power, thanks to Defiant. Superpower is a good move for coverage against threats like Tyranitar, and Tailwind and Taunt are good support options. Its utility is even better in that it can run a bulky Tailwind set featuring Icy Wind, allowing it to support its team through speed control. This set is also capable of running Prankster Taunt and Swagger.
    • [​IMG] Volcarona
      Volcarona by Lagalag4 (open)
      Volcarona is probably one of the more versatile pokemon in the doubles metagame. It can be used to both abuse Follow Me / Rage Powder in order to set up Quiver Dance for late game Heat Wave sweeping, or it can provide offensive support in Tailwind and / or Rage Powder itself. It is definitely a good choice for teams in need of either an offensive Rage Powder user, or if you just want to kill things with Quiver Dance + Heat Wave. Unfortunately for Volcarona, it has a painful 4x weakness to Rock - in singles, this is kept in check with Stealth Rock, and in Doubles, Rock Slide is everywhere, and most of the pokemon that throw STAB Rock Slides in your face resist your STAB moves, and a lacking 65 base defense and additional Water weakness aren't doing it any favors either.
    • [​IMG] Zapdos
      Zapdos by Nollan (open)
      Zapdos, the bird of Thunder. Indeed, it strikes hard, and along with Tailwind, a move that basically defines Zapdos in doubles, it can hit very fast too. It additionally has Heat Wave, getting around Grass types and other pokemon who would otherwise give it trouble. Apart from that, everything else it does is pretty standard. Thunderbolt/Discharge provides it with STAB, Detect/Protect can guard it from unfriendly attacks, and it can use Hidden Power for coverage as well. It also gets access to support options like Thunder Wave, Dual Screens, and Sunny Day, but most of these are outclassed by either Thundurus or Cresselia. Zapdos is exceedingly good at what it does though, if you need Tailwind support, Zapdos is your bird.

    B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that can fulfill a viable role in the Doubles metagame, but are either somehwat outclassed by Pokemon in a higher rank, or have notable flaws that prevent them from filling their role to full extent.The pokemon in this tier are usually predictable, and either require team support to work to it's full potential, or might provide free turns for the opponent. The flaws that the pokemon in this tier have are sometimes mitigated by their positive traits, or can be patched with some team support.
    Pokemon in B rank (open)

    • [​IMG] Arcanine
    • [​IMG] Bisharp
      Bisharp by Nollan (open)
      Bisharp is one of the best physical attackers, mostly due to Defiant, making it laugh at Intimidate (and Icy Wind) rather than fear it, which is amazing considering that almost every team runs Pokemon with it. But it has many talents beyond that, the most prevalent of which is its powerful 125 base attack, 80bp, STAB Sucker Punch, which allow it to play huge mindgames with the opponent. It also has Iron Head or Low Kick for coverage. It also has solid bulk, allowing it to live a neutral natured Landorus-Therian Earthquake with max investment.

    • [​IMG] Bronzong
      Bronzong bynoobcubed (open)
      Bronzong may not exploit Trick Room as efficiently as some other pokemon with low speed stats, but boy is it good at setting it up reliably. Its defensive stats are big, but what sets it apart from the likes of Cresselia is its part Steel typing. The ability Levitate sticks two fingers up at pokemon who rely on Ground type attacks to hit Steels, meaning it walls a large array of pokemon pretty very well. 33 base speed means, that inside Trick Room, it will almost always be going first, and allows it to use a powerful STAB Gyro Ball. It also has access to decent support options, such as dual screens and Safeguard, but is not as versatile as Cresselia. For the more offensively-minded, Psychic and Earthquake are usable attacks, and Explosion has big power and allows you to switch in a more potent attacking threat for free before Trick Room expires.
    • [​IMG] Chandelure
      Chandelure by Nollan (open)
      Chandelure is often viewed as a Trick Room setter. This is indeed a role it fulfills, but what people overlook are its other merits. It can run Imprison with Trick Room, making it a great Trick Room counter as well. Scarf Chandelure is another popular set, hitting hard with Heat Wave, Shadow Ball, and other attacks off that base 145 SpA. Still, Trick Room setting must not be overlooked, and Chandelure delivers with high offensive presense and a nifty Fake Out immunity.
    • [​IMG] Darkrai
      Darkrai by Nollan (open)
      Darkrai is an offensive menace. 90/135/125 offenses allow it to hit hard and fast. Its additional Dark typing and Dark Pulse allow it to rip through a large number of Trick Room setters, and additional access to Focus Blast and Ice Beam, it can hit more than half of the metagame for Super-Effective damage, popularizing both Life Orb and Expert Belt sets. While this is the most common use of it, it can also use options like Drain Punch, Sucker Punch, Icy Wind, Thunder Wave, and more. It has notable flaws, however, as it lost it's main move, Dark Void, to a ban from Singles to Doubles. Fighting and Bug weaknessesalso hold it back a lot in conjunction with 70/90/90 defenses. It hates being slowed down by Icy Wind or Thunder Wave, as its speed tier is an important part of its success. Still, it is a great offensive threat that will rip a team to shreds if overlooked.
    • [​IMG] Deoxys-A
      Deoxys-Attack by BlankZero (open)
      Deoxys-Attack Forme is the ultimate Glass Cannon. Massive 180 base Attack stats, a blistering 150 base speed, and a huge assortment of attacks to choose from, making it impossible to truly counter Deoxys. Usually, Deoxys is seen running a Focus Sash with Psycho Boost, Superpower, Extremespeed, and Protect, although you could go for a special-attacker set with Ice Beam and HP Fire, or full out physical-attacker with Zen Headbutt. While Deoxys is literally killed by a stiff breeze, it pairs perfectly with Fake Out users to give it more time to kill things. However, be wary of Sand and Hail damage, which can break and bypass your Sash, as well as priority, which can bypass your speed.
    • [​IMG] Dragonite
      Dragonite by noobcubed (open)
      Although it may appear at first glance to be a poor man's Salamence, Dragonite has one thing that separates it: its hidden ability Multiscale. This means it beats just about every other Dragon type one-on-one, bar Kyurem-B, as it can survive the opponent's dragon STAB and KO back with its own. Its movepool is as varied as any other Dragon type, but highlights include the rare ExtremeSpeed, tied as the most powerful priority attack in the game, and unique access to Hurricane, which lets it to perform very nicely as a rain abuser, especially since it also learns Surf.
    • [​IMG] Escavalier
    • [​IMG] Ferrothorn
    • [​IMG] Gastrodon
      Gastrodon by Nollan (open)
      Storm Drain allows Gastrodon to not only be immune to Water attacks, but to draw them in, making it a great choice on teams that fear Rain. It also can annoy Trick Room teams, courtesy of its base 39 speed. Being able to counter to of the most prevalent battle styles makes it stellar alone, but it also has only one weakness, and 92 base SpA, giving it acceptable offensive presense, and also acceptable 111/68/82 bulk. Earth Power, Icy Wind, Ice Beam, and Muddy Water are all good attack options, and it can extend longetivity with Recover and Stockpile.
    • [​IMG] Hariyama
    • [​IMG] Heracross
    • [​IMG] Infernape
    • [​IMG] Jellicent
    • [​IMG] Kabutops
      Kabutops by Nollan (open)
      Kabutops is arguably the best Physical Swift Swimmer. Massive speed in rain and 115 base attack, along with Waterfall, Rock Slide, and X-scissor, allow it to dent (and flinch) a large portion of the metagame. It can also use Substitute or Swords Dance to solid effect. It suffers from Mach Punch weakness, as well as a 4x Grass weakness, and even 115 is still fairly lacking in power, but nothing can truly replicate what this scythed terror does.
    • [​IMG] Kyurem
    • [​IMG] Latias
    • [​IMG] Musharna
    • [​IMG] Ninetales
    • [​IMG] Porygon2
    • [​IMG] Reuniclus
    • [​IMG] Scrafty
      Scrafty by Nollan (open)
      Scrafty is the only pokemon not named Hitmontop who has Intimidate and access to Fake Out. Scrafty is often a great choice for supporting Trick Room, as STAB Crunch helps it defeat Cresselia, the most common Trick Room reverser. It also has a plethora of options, including Drain Punch, Ice Punch, Taunt, and more. Apart from that, it is held back a lot, since it is slower and weaker than Hitmontop.
    • [​IMG] Shiftry
    • [​IMG] Slowking
    • [​IMG] Suicune
    • [​IMG] Thundurus-T
      Thundurus-Therian by Nollan (open)
      Thundurus-Therian is incredibly misused threat in Doubles. Half of the time, people use it for Discharge spam, but its best talents are that of a Choice user. With Scarf, it is faster than 252 speed neutral Ludicolo in the Rain, and with Specs, it can blow holes in almost anything. Focus Blast, Hidden Power Flying/Ice, and Grass Knot provide solid coverage options alongside STAB Thunder or Thunderbolt, and Volt Switch can be used to avoid being Choice-locked into a move, whilst getting a potential free switch into a dangerous pokemon, and spread abilities such as Intimidate around faster. Thundurus-T can also run Protect along with three attacks to great effect, usually with a Sash or Life Orb to back it up. Overall, it can be very useful, just make sure you are not using it in a role that it's Incarnate brother would outclass.
    • [​IMG] Toxicroak
      Toxicroak by noobcubed (open)
      For a Pokemon with feeble-looking 83/65/65 defenses, Toxicroak can be surprisingly durable in the rain. It owes this partly to its decent defensive typing, but more-so to its ability, Dry Skin, which heals it in the rain and grants a nifty Water immunity, which means a partner's Surf can be used with impunity. Aside from that its ability it plays similar to Hitmontop, and is a credible alternative on rain teams, with access to moves like Fake Out and Sucker Punch. Drain Punch is the STAB of choice, providing it with yet more healing, so don't be at all surprised if an attack does around 95% damage to Toxicroak and a few turns later it is back at full health. However, Dry Skin also gives it an almost vampiric fear of sunlight, and in general its ability in any other weather is greatly diminished.
    • [​IMG] Venusaur
    • [​IMG] Victini
    • [​IMG] Weavile
    • [​IMG] Whimsicott
      Whimsicott by noobcubed (open)
      No Pokemon in doubles causes as many mind games as Whimsicott. Game Freak gave it a marvelous ability in Prankster, and a limitless support movepool to abuse it, although Taunt, Encore and Tailwind remain the most common choices. 116 base speed is just a little faster than Tornadus and Thundurus, who also get Prankster and Taunt, allowing Whimsicott to Taunt them before they can do the same back. Encore is really, really useful for locking an opponent onto a useless move such as Protect, Fake Out or Trick Room, forcing them to switch out. The way to beat Whimsicott is to out-think it or, failing that, smack it with powerful attacks as its defenses are lacking.

    C Rank: Reserved for pokemon that can work within the Doubles metagame, however, they either have crippling flaws that prevent consistent performance, or require too much specific team support to synergize with most teams. Support Pokemon in this tier have a hard time creating free turns, and often allow the opponent to capitalize on the opportunity to create free turns for themselves. Pokemon that are completely outclassed by those of the upper tiers, may also be placed within this tier.
    Pokemon in C rank (open)

    • [​IMG] Aerodactyl
    • [​IMG] Blaziken
    • [​IMG] Chansey
    • [​IMG] Charizard
    • [​IMG] Cinccino
    • [​IMG] Cloyster
    • [​IMG] Empoleon
    • [​IMG] Dusclops
    • [​IMG] Gengar
    • [​IMG] Gliscor
    • [​IMG] Hitmonlee
    • [​IMG] Honckrow
    • [​IMG] Jolteon
    • [​IMG] Keldeo
      Keldeo by Lagalag4 (open)
      Since this legendary pony is arguably the best pokemon in standard OU with it's fast, hard hitting stats, one would think that it is a huge threat in the Doubles metagame as well. This is not true though, as with the lift of the DrizzleSwim ban it is almost completely outclassed by pokemon like Kingdra and Ludicolo. Another reason it is fairly ineffective is because at least one of Cresselia, Thundurus or Tornadus are on almost any team, and these pokemon easily put a stop to any legitimate Keldeo set. It could function under Tailwind or with Icy Wind support in theory, but it's much easier to just slap on a Kingdra and outspeed the entire unboosted tier without any further support.
    • [​IMG] Manetric
    • [​IMG] Marowak
    • [​IMG] Nidoking
    • [​IMG] Rhyperior
      Rhyperior by BlankZero (open)
      Rhyperior has a lot going for it Offensively. STAB on 2 of the better spread moves, super solid bulk, and an excellent ability in Solid Rock, which lowers the effect of Super Effective hits by 25%. Unfortunately, it has horrible typing and a super low speed stat, almost making it death fodder for anything outside of Trick Room. That said, Trick Room is the only place where it truly shines. While it does get a variety of moves to play with, including Megahorn, Reversal, Ice Beam, Surf and even 3/4 weather starting moves, it just doesn't have the stats to go mixed, which is a shame as it learns a ton and a half of TMs. Due to its 40 base speed, however, it is confined to be usually nothing more than Trick Room Offense.
    • [​IMG] Sableye
    • [​IMG] Sawsbuck
    • [​IMG] Slowbro
    • [​IMG] Snorlax
    • [​IMG] Starmie
    • [​IMG] Swampert
    • [​IMG] Ursaring
    • [​IMG] Vaporeon
    • [​IMG] Virizion
    • [​IMG] Yanmega

    D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that do not work well in the current Doubles metagame, either requiring full team support to function, or having huge flaws that can result in a loss if anything goes wrong. Gimmicks can also be found here.
    Pokemon in D rank (open)

    • [​IMG] Alakazam
    • [​IMG] Ambipom
    • [​IMG] Blissey
    • [​IMG] Cofagrigus
    • [​IMG] Cradily
    • [​IMG] Donphan
    • [​IMG] Dusknoir
    • [​IMG] Electivire
    • [​IMG] Espeon
    • [​IMG] Forretress
    • [​IMG] Gallade
    • [​IMG] Gardevoir
    • [​IMG] Haxorus
    • [​IMG] Hippowdon
      Hippowdon by BlankZero (open)
      Hippowdon got the shaft in the Doubles metagame. There is almost literally no reason to use it over Tyranitar as a Sand Inducer. While it does have solid defensive stats and a decent attack with reliable recovery, it's just outclassed entirely by Tyranitar in almost every way. This is because STAB Rock Slide and greater offense allows Tyranitar to pose more as a threat, and with the fast pace in the doubles metagame, reliable recovery is something most teams will just laugh at.
    • [​IMG] Lapras
    • [​IMG] Lucario
    • [​IMG] Magnezone
    • [​IMG] Porygon-Z
    • [​IMG] Shuckle
    • [​IMG] Skarmory
    • [​IMG] Slaking
      Slaking by BlankZero (open)
      Slaking is one of the biggest disappointments to the game. Monsterous, Uber-Worthy stats, with the worst ability in Truant. While you can theoretically Skill Swap the ability off of it, it's easily countered by Taunt and is seen coming a mile away, which limits its usefulness to a bare minimum. While you could potentiallydo massive damage with Slaking, you will usually be better off using something else, unless you have absolute control of the match and absolutely nothing can go wrong with your plan, which in cold, hard reality is never going to be true.
    • [​IMG] Tornadus-T
    • [​IMG] Typhlosion
      Typhlosion by BlankZero (open)
      Typhlosion has only one viable set in Doubles, which is Choice Scarf/Specs Eruption under Sunlight with Heat Wave, Solarbeam, and Focus Blast to back it up. Otherwise, it has pretty subpar defenses, average attacking stats, and average Base 100 speed. It may function well as a Sun Lead pair, but it's susceptible to Fake Out and other Priority which lowers Eruption's Base Power, as well as being weak to Earthquake, Surf and Rock Slide. You can remedy some of this by running Fire Gem and Protect, but it's definitely outclassed by other Fire types, like Heatran and Volcarona. That's about all it has going for it in the Doubles metagame.

    Rules
    ~ Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will not be tolerated
    ~ No flaming
    ~ Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
    ~ Think before you post. Does your post spark discussion? Is your claim true? etc.

    Happy posting ♪♪


    ~ Credits ~
    · To Halflife, Pocket, Pwnemon, Audiosurfer and Eggy for helping out with the original tiering and finding sprites back when we made this thread.
    · To PK Gaming because I stole at least half of his OP :)
    · There is no 3. To Nollan, BlankZero and noobcubed for heping out with writing some delicious Write-Ups to help doubles newcomers[/hide]
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2014
    Magcargo likes this.
  2. Mizuhime

    Mizuhime Something sinister to it
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    Doubles Queen

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    I believe Infernape should be moved up to at least B tier, As it's a fast fake outer with excellent stabs. It's a very good pokemon in the fact it's faster then all fakeouts bar ludicolo in rain and weavile.

    will post more later
  3. The One Man Band

    The One Man Band

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    This was a lot of fun to make! I'm glad I suggested this.

    I agree with Infernape in B rank. Good stabs and access to encore/fake out.

    I don't like bisharp in A. It's so weak to spread moves and alot of things can take hits from it. Defiant is nice but people will not switch in their intimidate users on purpose. I think metagross does the whole physical attacker immune to intimidate thing better.

    I also don't understand Gyarados in A rank. Being weak to rock and electric really hurt him. He doesn't damage things a lot either. I guess he's good for paralyzing a bunch of stuff without taking too much but is that really worth A rank? B rank IMO.
  4. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Sableye and Murkrow provide at least as much support as Whimsicott. Sableye's superior typing could put it a tier ahead of Murkrow, so maybe B for Sableye and C for Murkrow?
    Surprised at least Sableye didn't make it on the list as it is decently popular.
  5. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Suicune needs to be moved up to at least A rank.

    A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

    Mono Water typing is such a boon in doubles, seeing as with just a Wacan Berry, Suicune only has 1 weakness, which doesn't have a whole lot of powerful abusers or moves, being Leaf Storm, Breloom's Bullet Seed, and Ferrothorn's Power Whip, and the last two can be seen a mile away.

    Suicune is probably the best Tailwind setter in the Tier, with Zapdos being right there with it. While this is a bit of a niche in it of itself, it does create free turns for your own Pokemon fairly easily, like making Breloom and Kyurem-Black stupid fast. And with its 100/115/115 bulk, even without a ton of investment, it makes killing it that much harder. I won't bore you with a bunch of numbers, but run them if you'd like. You'll be surprised what this Water Dog can take.

    Edit: This thread is awesome. Can we get a Comprehensive Threat List next like we have for every other main tier? It would make team building a bit easier.
  6. Sashay

    Sashay From The Ashes
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    Hi Lagalag4! I find your thread thought provoking and there are a few suggestions I'd like to present, and they are as follows:

    Bisharp does not belong in A rank. Even alongside a Follow Me or Rage Powder user, it still is weak to too many common spread moves, including Eruption, Earthquake, and Heat Wave, and also takes a lot of damage from Discharge and Surf. Due to how common these things are in doubles, I think Bisharp should be brought down to B rank or maybe even C rank.

    Conkeldurr does not belong in B rank. Its sheer power and the fact that Flame Orb provides practically an immunity to status, and when combined with Guts, Flame Orb's Burn condition virtually provides Conkeldurr with a Choice Band boost that has the freedom of switching moves, with Burn's damage mitigated by STAB Drain Punch's healing effect, suggests to me that it is one of the most obviously powerful things in doubles. And having a supporting partner and/or being under the effects of Trick Room only make it even more of a valid threat. Its weaknesses are few, and Psychic or Flying spread moves hardly exist outside of the rarely seen Air Cutter. For these reasons, I suggest that Conkeldurr be moved to A rank.

    Porygon2 does not belong in C rank. Having one weakness that is easy to scout for, Eviolite as the held item, a solid special movepool, and access to Recover, Porygon2 is a super bulky tank that can heal itself sufficiently while dishing out decent damage in return. It becomes even more of a threat under Trick Room and its only real problem outside of its one weakness is Toxic. I am comfortably sure that Porygon2 is able to wall "significant portions of the metagame" and despite its few downsides is able to do its job tremendously well. For these reasons, I suggest that Porygon2 be moved to A rank.

    Espeon does not belong in D rank. I was shocked to see this one. I understand that Espeon is not exactly built to take hits, especially on the physical side, but the sheer amount of support it can provide in doubles ought to be enough to somewhat mitigate this. First of all, its godsend of an ability, Magic Bounce, punishes hazard layers as well as other common disrupting attacks such as Spore, Thunder Wave, and Taunt, and can switch into these moves with good prediction. Espeon can also serve as a Dual Screener, which serves to aid the entire team by adding a notable amount of bulk, so to speak, and can also heal itself with Morning Sun or heal itself and other team members with Wish. While Espeon's threat of Magic Bounce is not a big shocker to opponents, it does make them think twice about laying hazards or using disruptive moves. It is believed that Cresselia largely outclasses Espeon, but Espeon's advantage over Cresselia is that it cannot be Taunted. Cresselia is forced to run Magic Coat to block Taunt, using up a turn and maybe even wasting one if the opponent opts to attack, but Espeon's ability provides a constant Magic Coat while it performs its other duties to support the team. For these reasons, I suggest that Espeon be moved to C rank.

    Thank you. ^_^
  7. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
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    P2 is going to B because you are right, A can be discussed further, and if peeps are up for it, i'll move it, and Espeon to C. BUT I would like to see some discussion about Conk and Bisharp before moving those ~

    The reasons as to why we decided to place Bisharp in A is because
    1) It get's a boost from Intimidate, meaning it deals very well with Hitmontop, Landorus-T, etc. and
    2) strong STAB Sucker Punch can be deadly if played right.

    The reasons as to why we decided to place to place Conkeldurr in B instead of A is because it almost relies on Trick Room, and with Cresselia, Latios and Tornadus-I everywhere, it is not very hard to face.

    Thanks for posting, If some more people can agree to these changes, I shall definately move them to the tiers that you people want them in :]

    Edit: Moved Conkeldurr to A, because a lot of people seem to agree :]
  8. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

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    The thing with Conkeldurr is that it refuses to die to neutral hits and a powerful Drain Punch can be the difference in survival. STAB Mach Punch with a Guts / Iron Fist boost can also scare certain opponents into playing more cautiously. It's true that it can't handle Cress, Lati@s and Tornadus-I, but it can manhandle a lot of stuff and has strong utility in Wide Guard and Mach Punch, while boasting more offensive presence than Hitmontop who has to decide between Intimidate's utility or Technician's boost. Guts Flame Orb is an option for avoiding Spores as well. Its power, coverage and bulk is a strong contender for A and is one of the more notable pokes teams should prepare for. After all, Latios and Tornadus-I aren't lasting forever and Cress without Psychic isn't saving its teammate for that matter.
  9. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    I'll second Conk for A rank due to the sheer power it has in Doubles, how easy it is to get off TR, and the fact that it has Priority Mach Punch, which can be used with Guts or Banded Iron Fist, in case Trick Room doesn't go off. It qualifies A rank due to its ability to plow through most of the game, with only a few weaknesses that can easily be mitigated by its team mates. Tyranitar and mamoswine for example, make good team members to help against Psychic/Flying types, and Conk gets Ice Punch as well.

    While it lacks the utter ridiculousness to hit S rank, it's definitely a super solid Pokemon overall with few weaknesses that can be covered with very little support.
  10. Sphoofle

    Sphoofle

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    If Sableye deserves B, then I believe Murkrow deserves the same. Murkrow has a key immunity with its flying type, not getiing hit by EQs. Also, Murkrow's supporting options are much wider than Sableye--Tailwind, Twave, Featherdance, and Snarl are the few things that Sableye can't do. And IIRC, Murkrow has higher bulk than Sableye with eviolite. (Though I don't really know how to factor Sitrus Berry/any other item as bulk for Sableye.)

    IMO, I'd use Murkrow more often that Sableye.
  11. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Conkeldurr for A is something I agree with. It is such a monster. It hits like a boss, has Wide Guard, Detect and Mach Punch, all very useful moves, and just refuses to die to neutral moves.

    And now, two suggestions from my part:
    Ferrothorn for A because it is an incredible defensive beast that just does not die, especially in the rain. Its huge defensive presence can really screw teams over.

    Jellicent for B because it is an underrated defensive threat that takes nothing from special attackers and can wall them to hell and back through Protect and Recover. Toxic Stalling from of Jellicent alongside a ridiculously bulky team in general provided me numerous victories. Jellicent has some flaws, most notably weak physical defence unless you decide to sacrifice its huge special bulk, and no offensive presence, but its defensive presence has to be accounted for.
  12. bobbyvaporeon

    bobbyvaporeon

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    I'd Put Cradily in C rank. As it says, with the right support (Sand and/or TR) Curse Cradily is an extremely good pokemon as its typing and Recover allow it to get boosts fairly easily. STAB rock slide is gorgeous. While it needs Sand to be effective, I'd put Cradily in C solely because it is so good in Sand.
  13. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Yea I prefer Murkrow, but most prefer Sableye so I was giving the non-biased option. Sableye also has Snarl even though Murkrow actually does some damage with it. Murkrow's Quash and Featherdance are its biggest niches and I think it is really good tbh. However, lack of Fake Out and Fighting immunity plus having weaknesses in general does suck compared to Sableye.
    I do think they at least offer a similar level of support as Whimsicott though, if not much more.

    Edit @ below: Sunny Day+Solar Beam is actually better in this meta than Drought and Ninetales is kinda bad. 8 turns of sun is plenty in doubles.
  14. Chaoswalker

    Chaoswalker

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    I'm surprised Azumarill isn't anywhere on here at all. Perhaps it's just me, but I find the combination of decent bulk, strong priority, and trick room speed to be very useful.

    Also, how are Shiftry and Venusaur higher rank than Ninetales?
  15. NixHex

    NixHex what is béisbol
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    This was the only reason I wanted to post in this thread. Jellicent is also one of the best TR setters thanks to its immunity to Fake Out, immunity to Surf, and STAB Surf / Waterspout in rain.
  16. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    You can set up Sun with Sableye and a Heat Rock, which has more utility than Ninetales really. Tales is just really bad.
  17. Explorer

    Explorer

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    I suggest that we move Cradily to C-rank. It cannot do much offensively, but it is very anti-meta in that it thrives in the two most common weathers in Doubles: sand and rain. Sand boosts its special defense to top-tier levels, and the water-type moves abound in rain teams go right to Cradily and boost is Special Attack thanks to Storm Drain. As a result it can be played on either type of team to counteract the other (in particular I've had success with Cradily on a sandstorm team filled with multiple anti-Rain Pokemon). It can hit many common rain threats harder than its competitor Gastrodon thanks to STAB Giga Drain (a Rock STAB deals with Thundurus). On top of that, it has reliable recovery to help it stay around longer to keep taking advantage of its surroundings, and its slow speed makes it a decent team member under Trick Room, where it has good defensive synergy with common Trick Room setters.

    Still, I do not think it should be moved any higher because it is not too useful outside of sand, rain, and Trick Room (bar hitting Ninetales with SE STAB moves), is not very powerful before attack boosts, and is destroyed by any Pokemon with a physical Fighting-type move (Hitmontop and Terrakion in particular).
  18. noobcubed

    noobcubed

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    A couple of mons that i feel deserve to be here somewhere:

    Musharna: probably C rank as it is a great supporter on or against trick room teams, but is mostly outclassed by Cresslia. Telepathy and being more slow-fast in trick room give it a niche.

    Mincinno: Powerful multi-hit moves means it hits hard and fast, ignoring sturdy, focus sash and type resist berries. Also the fastest follow me user in the game, which can be situationally useful. B rank maybe?

    Ursaring: Ursaring's guts-boosted facade destroys everything, pretty much. For that reason alone it should be considered whenever building a trick room team. Probably C rank though as trick room is its life-blood.
  19. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
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    I will add Musharna and Ursaring to C rank, but I think Cinccino should be discussed whether to be C or B rank ~
  20. nyttyn

    nyttyn Neko Miko Reimu, ai shiteru
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    Hydreigon to C

    Hydreigon has four serious flaws that keep it from being A rank, in my opinion. For starters, while its Dragon/Dark typing is pretty nice offensively, defensively it is an absolute nightmare, leaving it open to Bug, Dragon, Fighting, and Ice types, all of which are extremely common in this metagame. Secondly, it finds itself in the very, very awkward speed tier of 98, which keeps it in the bad position of not outspeeding the threats that can nuke it to oblivion (of which it is fairly likely there will be one out at any given time), while still beeing far too fast for Trick Room teams. Thirdly, its base defenses are rather lacking, resting in at 92/90/90, which is rather pathetic given how slow it is, in combination with its weaknessess and the lack of any viable way to recover its HP. Finally, for all these flaws, it still only comes in at a base 125 Special Attack, which is not enough to quite make up for all these flaws.

    Usable with support, but you aren't getting much bang for your buck. I'd personally push for C, but I recognize it has its uses with the proper support, although it is completely outclassed by Latios so there's that.

    Edit: After serious consideration, I'm instead pushing for Hydreigon to go to the C tier, as the fact that it highly suffers from 4MSS in a metagame that basically forces it to run protect is the final nail in the coffin.
  21. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    I would like to nominate Deoxys-Attack Forme for A-Rank.

    It is by far and away one of the most threatening things in the game so far, with monstrous Base 180 Attack AND Special Attack, and a blistering 150 base speed. To put that into perspective, if you run a Speed neutral nature on Deo-A with 236 Speed investment, you will still outrun all positive-natured base 130s, like timid Jolteon. Not only is it fast though, it is a literal Glass Cannon. With 50/20/20 Defenses, it is literally out-bulked by Feebas, Magikarp, and Igglybuff. this fact keeps it our of S-Rank, as it needs quite a little bit of support to properly function, like a check against damaging weather and a Focus Sash, Protect, Quick/Wide Guard, etc. Basically, Deo-A will survive exactly 2 hits with a Focus Sash. If sand is up, you will only get one shot without Protect, which means having your own weather can be beneficial, or just run Life Orb since you won't get the benefit of a Sash anyhow.

    I feel that Deo-A's raw power lets it hit A Rank, but it's frailness makes it less than S Rank, due to the amount of support required.

    A Rank (open)
    Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.
  22. Crow350

    Crow350

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    Politoed to rank A (Personally I think it's more of a B, but there's gonna be a ton of people who disagree)

    Politoed is free turns incarnate. Most weather bringers are, in fact. The amount of times they have to switch in and out adds up on the "free turn scale". In my opinion this really makes it so that no weather bringer should be S, but Politoed especially since it lacks the raw stats to be a consistant threat. The only worthwhile stat toed has is his special defense, but this is a problem within itself. In a metagame where the majority of threats (taken from list A, 17 of the 29 commonly run special movesets) are special attackers, most players will lean toward specially defensive pokemon. When this becomes a problem is that strong players take advantage of the weaker physical defense of the meta, ironically putting toed in a spot where his best stat isn't as relevant. In addition, Politoed sets up rain for opponents with thunder, potentially making him a liability. Rain, icy wind, and helping hand are simply not enough to merit toed being in S as he's clearly not there for his [lack of] offensive power.

    Heracross to rank A

    Heracross has two of the best offensive STABs in the meta, Bug and Fighting, and the offensive power to back it up. Moxie is absolutely fantastic, as you can gem it, get a kill and net a +1 effectively negating the loss of your gem. Notably, bug gem megahorn can OHKO Cress. In addition to his power, Heracross has the bulk to take STAB moves from most threats psychic, including Latios (of course, this means you'll be taking most neutral hits just fine). Heracross also has access to feint, which in addition to being excellent support can pick off sash/weakened 'mons for easy +1s. He also has a great middle speed, meaning he can be ran inside or out of trick room. In these respects, there is no pokemon in A who outperforms Heracross.
  23. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
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    Ok, figured I'd respond to some of these nominations. Since some were talked about by multiple people I'll just address each Pokemon.

    Espeon (open)

    D Rank please. There is almost no reason to use this over anything. Magic Bounce isn't nearly enough of a niche in a metagame where hazards are rare, and deflecting status moves isn't very meaningful since Alakazam is immune to Toxic and Burn damage as well as recoil, thus giving Espeon more competition. A Dual Screen set isn't very good since screens add less bulk per mon in Doubles (1/3 as opposed to 1/2 increase iirc), and it faces competition for a Screens set from Latias and Cresselia. While not being able to be Taunted seems like a huge deal, when your bulk is so pitiful then you can just get KOed by common Taunters like Tornadus. So yeah, basically D Rank is appropriate since it's either outclassed or faces severe competition in every role you try to use it in. If you try to use it for support, you have to justify it over Latias, Cresselia, and Musharna, and if you use it in offensive capabilities it gets outclassed by Alakazam.

    Conkeldurr (open)

    I think Conkeldurr does belong in B rank. While it does pack a punch with Guts boosted Fighting attacks, it still isn't able to OHKO bulkier threats that it hits neutrally, which means that Conkeldurr will be forced to take a hit back. While Conkeldurr's bulk is good, taking powerful attacks in conjunction with recoil from a burn will cut down its time on the battlefield by a lot. The idea that its weaknesses are rare is also flawed, since common Pokemon such as Cresselia and Latios can eat it up (saying that they don't last forever isn't an argument since that can be applied to just about anything. Conkeldurr can't OHKO and they KO back so it can't get through them if they're played right). Another problem with Conkeldurr is that it's Speed is atrocious. While many of you list the idea of Trick Room, that is able to be played around and stalled out, and once it's over Conkeldurr becomes a sitting duck waiting to get blown out. So yeah, it's a good choice for TR teams, but it's not good enough overall to justify an A ranking

    Bisharp (open)

    Definitely A rank. The idea that spread moves somehow mean it should be moved down one (or even two) ranks makes no sense. For starters, plenty of spread weak mons are able to remain viable in the Doubles metagame (such as Volcarona) and do quite well. in addition, an easy way to get around this is to simply get Wide Guard support from a Hitmontop or something. While this argument could be applied to anything here, it works especially well with Bisharp since it can eliminate Psychics that give Wide Guarders like Hitmontop, Conkeldurr and Mienshao a hard time. While this argument would be moot if Bisharp didn't have enough positives to outweigh the negatives of a spread move weakness, Bisharp's strengths more than make up for this. Even if you take Wide Guard out of the equation, the amount of power and utility Bisharp brings to the table is worth it being in A rank. Thanks to Defiant, it can get a boost from the omnipresent Intimidate and fire off +1 Sucker Punches. Even at +0, Sucker Punch off of Base 125 Atk is pretty nice, and is able to KO plenty of faster threats. Being able to benefit from Intimidate as well as acting as a check to the fast sweepers that are seen in this meta (not to mention Steel typing's usefulness and the ability to manhandle things like Cresselia) is definitely enough to warrant keeping it in A Rank.

    Also, things such as Murkrow, Porygon2 and Cradily should stay in their previous tiers. Not gonna go too indepth on it but for the most part these things succeed in little outside of being a minor nuisance and are easily handled by a decent team, making them dead weight for the most part in Doubles (Storm Drain redirecting Water moves isn't too meaningful when you can't pose a huge threat to a decent Rain team, and even with an SDef boost in Sand you still won't do jack to Sand as most of their cleaners are physical). In terms of Murkrow, being able to "wall" attackers means very little when you're not able to do much to them other than that, and ends up resulting in you having a dead Pokemon and your opponent switching out to reset their stats. Porygon2 is a similar story, since it will have to deal with two attackers every turn and will likely fall to them. Even if you have sufficient bulk to take repeated hits, you'd have to sacrifice significant amounts of offensive presence, so you'd end up not being able to do significant damage to your opponent as well as being easy Taunt bait. Despite these flaws, Porygon2 is a decent option for a bulky Trick Room setter thanks to the boosts to its Defenses from Eviolite, which is why it shouldn't be in D rank.

    Will probably talk about other changes later, just wanted to address these for now.
  24. BlankZero

    BlankZero

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,839
    Why is Cofagrigous way down in D? That thing is a TR setting monster.
  25. Crow350

    Crow350

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    57
    After more though, I'd also like to nominate Amoonguss to B

    Sleep clause effectively neuters Amoonguss' usefulness, leaving it almost exclusively rage powder death fodder after it puts something to sleep.

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