CAP 12 CAP 1 - Concept Poll 1

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the pastor of disaster
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The choices for this poll were very difficult to make, there were many excellent submissions, and some of those not included will likely go on to meet success in future CAPs! However, these concepts are not only coherent and well-thought out, they fit my vision of a CAP that actively explores an underexplored aspect of the competitive metagame.

As a reminder, we are now using instant runoff voting, the details of which can be found here: . This means that this poll will select three concepts, which will then be further narrowed down to one by means of a bold vote. You may vote for as many concepts as you like in this poll, in order of preference. A typical vote might look like:

Most Preferred Concept
Second Most Preferred Concept
Third Preferred Concept, etc.

Any comments that the voter has would go below the votes in non-bold text. Bold text is used to determine what the user's votes are, so none of the supplementary text should be in bold.
Please post only your votes in this thread, this is not a discussion thread. If you wish to discuss the vote, I encourage you to do so on #cap on IRC.

Here are the concepts to be voted on, in the order they were posted:

Concept: Weather Slayer

Description: This Pokémon exploits weaknesses in a team built around any weather condition to pose a large threat to the opposing team as a whole, analogously to the way in which offensive lead Machamp was used to exploit the lead metagame in Generation IV.

Justification: Weather is probably the most controversial subject in this generation today. A Pokémon created with this concept could contribute to metagame diversity by making teams that don't necessarily exploit a weather condition more viable. As well, this concept could allow the community to explore how "weather teams" can be checked effectively, and how "weather teams" can adapt to a threat like CAP 1.

Questions To Be Answered:
  • Will a "weather slayer" allow strategies not dependent on weather to be more effective?
  • Which threats should a "weather slayer" concentrate on checking or countering directly?
  • Which lesser-used Pokémon become more relevant and viable with a "weather slayer" in the metagame?
  • Which OU Pokémon can best use the help of a "weather slayer" to their advantage?
  • How effective is the "weather slayer" outside of checking opposing weather-based strategies?
  • Can less common weather-based teams use the "weather slayer" to counter other weather-based teams to become more viable?
  • Are all weather conditions worth "slaying"?
Explanation: There is a wide variety of possibilities for this concept. The huge versatility of weather-based teams makes a comprehensive counter nigh-impossible, which is why the general idea is to be able to set up on a few key threats, such as the weather setters themselves. CAP 1 could be a SubPuncher or a bulky SD priority sweeper or even a defensive Pokémon with key characteristics. Contributors are encouraged to look beyond "obvious" abilities such as Cloud Nine, Trace, Chlorophyll, and Sand Rush, toward the many abilities that have been granted to the community in this generation to impose immunities to damage both direct and residual. This CAP is also sort of a throwback to CAP 1 from last generation (Syclant), who had the ability Mountaineer to mitigate the effects of Stealth Rock, a defining characteristic of Generation IV.
Concept: Momentum

General Description: This will be a Pokemon that can be utilized to gain or regain momentum for a player's team at any point in the match as its primary function.

Justification: Gen. 5 is a very powerful metagame. As such, most battles are won by the smarter strategist who can best maneuver around his/her opponent's onslaught to gain even a single turn's advantage, potentially clinching them the match. This process of gaining and regaining momentum is most often the defining element that makes a winner and a loser out of a single Pokemon battle. Any top player in this metagame should agree that momentum is the most crucial element in any given match; however, "momentum" itself is a rather vaguely defined term that is never really explored in concrete terms. Is it keeping opposing teams on the defensive? Forcing switches? Good prediction? Spamming U-turn? These have all been approaches to achieving momentum, but they are also player-side and largely synonymous with "strategy," as opposed to Pokemon-side and regarding a Pokemon's role on the team. Certainly there are threats like Ferrothorn/Gliscor (defensive) and Scizor/Latios/Voltlos, etc., etc. (offensive) that can achieve momentum as we know it, but there is no current niche for a "momentum Pokemon" because the concept has been purely delegated to players and not to Pokemon.

Questions to be Answered:
-How do we define momentum in terms of competitive Pokemon? What factors make current Pokemon able to achieve momentum and how can we incorporate that information into a successful CAP?
-How do different styles of play (Weather-based offense, stall, bulky offense, etc.) use momentum to achieve their goals and how can our CAP play to those strategies in an effort to take their momentum away?
-What type of traditional role (sweeper, tank, wall, support) would a Pokemon like this most resemble? Would it have to be able to fit more than one of these roles to fit in a variety of teams?
-How will the different playstyles be affected by the addition of a Pokemon that can regain offensive/defensive momentum at any given point? Will offensive teams play more conservatively? Will defensive teams play more recklessly? Will everything simply adapt to a new threat and move on normally?

Explanation: This concept should teach us just as much about the metagame during its creation process than through actual playtesting, especially in the Concept Assessment, where the community should be looking to the metagame as a whole to analyze how successful teams and players gain, regain, and maintain momentum. Since momentum has largely been defined at the discretion of the battling community and takes many forms, so too could this CAP. Scizor, Blissey, Skarmory, Magnezone, Celebi, Jirachi (Celebi and Jirachi are great examples, due to their versatility), Heatran, Balloon Heatran, etc. can all achieve momentum according to their strengths, yet all are very different. Now, I'm not about to suggest that this CAP should be able to check everything in the metagame; that's not the goal here. What it should be able to do, though, is pose a reasonable threat in some manner to a good chunk of the metagame, enough to make opponents think twice about staying in or at least think very hard about what to switch into this Pokemon. A Pokemon with almost no offensive presence can do this just as well as a blunt instrument kind of Poke.
Concept: "Lead"-ing the New Generation!

Description: A good, balanced Pokemon that can both excel in the lead position and have decent synergy with its teammates in said position.

Justification: The advent of the Wi-Fi clause created a lot of controversy when it was first revealed. Many speculated that it would be the end to leads as we knew them from Generation IV, creating an era of counter strategy when it comes to team positioning. Now that Generation V has come about, Wi-Fi clause pretty much has fulfilled this prophecy, and teams now tend to focus not on leads but rather six-Pokemon strategies such as Sand, Rain, and Stall.

However, while all of this said is true, leads have yet to be proven as useless. Certain Pokemon still are balanced enough to lead the team in most situations (Machamp, Infernape, and Metagross are still very useful in their original roles as leads, for example, as well as new leads such as Mienshao and Thundurus). What if we were to create a Pokemon that could gain a great start for most teams regardless of the opponent's positioning of his/her team? This Pokemon could open the door towards a more stable metagame, allowing teams that do not employ "six-Pokemon strategies" to succeed as well as turning the Wi-Fi clause not into some useless, but much harder and more strategic to use. Also, as a result, this Pokemon could also re-introduce the "lead core" theory with decent synergy, such as HeatChamp in Gen IV.

Questions To Be Answered:
  • Are the terms "Lead" and "Anti-Lead" still viable in a metagame where both players are aware of the opponent's team, via Wi-Fi clause?
  • What is the definition of a "Lead"? Has it evolved into something more than what leads once were, or can they still play a similar role as in the past?
  • How will the metagame be affected if stable leads were re-introduced into the environment? Can leads be consistent in the fast-paced Generation V metagame?
  • Is the term "Lead" subject to just one Pokemon by itself, or can two Pokemon coexist as a lead core for teams? What other Pokemon will be able to lead if we introduced a stable lead?
  • Are leads that employ entry hazards, such as Spikes and Stealth Rock, still useful a metagame that relies heavily on mid-game hazard walls and tanks, such as Ferrothorn? Or has the term "Lead" changed into a constant "Anti-Lead"?
  • What can we stand to learn from the Wi-Fi Clause? Will this Pokemon enable us to study the advantages and disadvantages of this new clause?
Explanation: I feel that while weather and such has been such a huge impact on the new metagame, the Wi-Fi Clause has definitely had the greatest impact. As the first CAP project of this generation, I feel that it is important that we study the impact team organization has on battles. By far, understanding how the Wi-Fi Clause affects a metagame should be a top priority. This concept allows us to delve into this style of thinking. This Pokemon should excel in the lead position, while being a moderate/above average Pokemon outside of it. I don't envision this Pokemon becoming a sweeper of any sort, but I do envision it being strong enough to take out opposing leads well enough (whether "strength" is determined by stats or movepool is to be determined in itself).

This concept also opens the doors wide open on creativity. It doesn't pin us down to one or two abilities or types, nor does it really force us to use certain moves. This concept is more or less about finding out what works: an experimental process is just what we need to kick of Generation V CAP.
Concept: Save Stall!

General Description: This pokemon would aim to revitalize stall in the fifth generation

Justification: Stall has become far less viable in the fifth generation. Hazards are harder to set/keep up, supporters are easily disrupted or set up on, and pokemon are hitting harder and faster than ever. By aiming to revitalize stall, we would be able to pinpoint what problems stall faces, and explore a traditionally huge portion of the metagame.

Questions To Be Answered:
  • Can stall be viable with the powerful new threats introduced this generation?
  • How can hazards be consistently set up and abused with the ease of spinning or otherwise preventing hazards this generation?
  • How can reopening an entire playstyle effect the turbulent metagame of the 5th gen? Would it serve to balance offensive threats, or just make threat lists longer and more difficult to account for?
  • The utility of Team Preview on a stall team has been brought up, but never deeply explored. Could increasing the prevalence of stall make the role of Team Preview on a stall team, or in general, more clear?
Explanation: The introduction of Rapid Spin Excadrill, which beats every ghost one-on-one, Magic Mirror, and Reuniclus, not to mention the abundance of absurdly powerful attacks thrown around, all make laying down hazards, walling the opponent, and wearing their pokemon down harder than ever. On top of this are more ways than ever to disrupt stall, including Mischievous Heart's priority Taunts, nerfed RestTalk, and a large boost for Trick all make stall's job harder than ever. Of course, stall has gained some new tools, such as DW Gliscor, Nattorei, or Evo Stone, but it is apparent that stall is used much less this generation.

A "Stall Saver" could take many forms; for example, utilizing Ghost-typing and a Ground resist or immunity to prevent Dory from spinning while hitting Reuniclus and Magic Mirror users for SE damage. Also important to consider for this Concept would be making sure that Rapid Spin or Magic Mirror don't just become unviable strategies. Making the CaP hard-countered by SR weak pokemon like Ulgamoth could make an interesting battle between getting hazards down and removing them.

Also, note that this pokemon doesn't necessarily have to be played with stall... Rankurusu, the difficulty of Spin-Blocking, etc are all very relevant threats to offensive teams as well!
Concept: Binary Star
General Description: A Pokemon that shines in doubles with a good niche, but is not particularly good in singles.
Justification: The field of doubles has never been broached by CAP before. Designing a Pokemon for doubles will shed more light on this metagame, and learn about the impact of adding a Pokemon to the fast-paced doubles metagame, and how various strategies must adapt to it.
Questions to be Answered
- Can a single Pokemon impact the metagame significantly?
- Can a single Pokemon check the most significant strategies in the doubles metagame?
- What niche will this Pokemon occupy in the current Tailwind and Trick Room dominated metagame?
- What strategies will this Pokemon popularize?

Justification: The standard OU metagame is still being revised continously. However, the official doubles metagame has a fixed ruleset, and performing experiments on it will garner more information on an interesting metagame, which has settled down in terms of rules already. Doubles is also a metagame that requires more support, and dedicating a CAP to it will definitely go a long way towards popularizing it.

Explanation: Because of the way doubles works, building a CAP around a strategy would be the best way to maximise the amount we learn about the metagame. This is where doubles shines, because there are several dozens of strategies in doubles, meaning we can pick any one and orient our CAP towards it, meaning we have a lot of leeway with our concept even after we choose it.

Last Stand

General Description:
This pokemon (through stats or movepool) thrives as a last resort pokemon, but is a dead-weight in early game.

Pokemon has many great late game cleaners, such as Starmie. However, remember in GSC when you've destroyed your opponents whole team...and his last pokemon is a Curselax. It seems that in fast paced metagame that is Gen V, no pokemon exists such as Curselax. Suicune is rarely seen, if at all. The aim of this concept is to see if such a pokemon can be useful in the offensive metagame of Gen V.

Questions To Be Answered:

  • Will CaP 1 be able to survive the incredibly hard hitting pokemon that dominate the Gen V metagame?
  • Will CaP 1 be too powerful during late game?
  • Will CaP 1 be too one dimensional on every team, or should it have an different, albeit worse, function? (eg. wishmence).
Explanation: The key to CaP 1's success will probably be in it's ability to accumulate boosts after the heavy hitters are gone. Moves such as bulk-up and calm mind will probably be it's bread and butter. A defensive, yet offensive type please not water or it would be like suicune :( would be necessary for CaP 1 to function correctly. An ability such as immunity would stop the toxi-stalling CaP 1 to death, but an ability such as Battle/Shell Armour would stop crits.
Concept: "Weaponless"

Description: A pokemon which is able to pose a formidable offensive threat, despite having weak STAB moves.

Justification: Many of the new sweepers in generation 5 have access to powerful STAB moves and combinations which allow them to deal huge damage to a multitude of opposing pokemon, like Terakion or Blaziken. This pokemon would ideally be able to pose an offensive threat despite the low BP of its STAB moves. With this concept, we will be able to learn more about how useful STAB typing can be, and how a pokemon can succeed without having the monstrously powerful STAB moves common on most Generation 5 sweepers. The idea with this concept is not to simply create yet another powerful sweeper, but to learn just how useful STAB moves are to an offensive pokemon's success, and indeed whether an offensive pokemon is useful at all without them compared to the multitude of other powerful sweepers available.

Questions to be Answered:
  • Can an attacking pokemon suceed at all without access to powerful STAB moves?
  • How can a pokemon best overcome the lack of powerful STAB moves?
  • How can this pokemon be made to do well against bulkier or more stallish teams, if at all?
  • Will this pokemon be a simple attacker or utility check, or will it be able to sweep?
  • Is there always a pokemon which can wall an attacker with a weak STAB move?
  • What roles will this pokemon best be able to fill?

Explanation: In generation 4, examples of pokemon that suffered from this sort of problem are Weavile and Electivire, both of which fell into disuse due to their inability to deal sufficient damage to bulkier pokemon. With this concept, we could give CAP 1 good dual attacking stats and excellent coverage, to allow it to hit a variety of pokemon hard, a huge Attack or Special Attack stat, or a way to reliably boost its stats in order to allow it to hit hard enough, despite the low BP of its STAB moves. Although this pokemon should be styled offensively, to suit the concept, it could also have some bulk, with a few (but not too many) support options such as Wish, to allow it to support its team and not be entirely useless when it's walled due to its lack of power. Physical/Special bias is not important.
This poll will close in 24 hours. Choose carefully!

Deck Knight

Tornadic Cyclohm
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Hmmm, dissapointing I didn't get through. Oh well, there's some good stuff here. My ballot:

Admiral_Korski's Momentum
capefeather's Weather Slayer
DarkSlay's "Lead"-ing a New Generation

As a note to anyone posting: The time for debate is over.

Simply post up your ballots in this thread. If you want to discuss something do it in #cap.

I will be on the lookout for attempts to bandwagon support, and I WILL FIND YOU.

Incidentally I will also be tabulating the results in an Excel spreadsheet. I will post it at the close of the poll.

Here are my ballots for this vote.

Paradox's Save Stall!
Admiral_Korski's Momentum
Donny Mae.'s Last Stand

Thanks, bye.
Binary Star
Save Stall!
Weather Slayer

I think something new like a Doubles CAP would be a nice way to kick off Gen 5. Korski's concept is great in general, Stall really needs a boost, and weather could use a good slaying. My two cents (if that).


Who let marco in here????
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Last Stand
Binary Star

(My third would be the Lead concept, even though I dislike the lead metagame)
Binary Star
Save Stall!

There were a lot of good concepts floating around. It was hard to choose, but I think these would be the most interesting to watch.


gonna smoke five blunts and watch anime
is a Pre-Contributor
capefeather's Weather Slayer
Admiral_Korski's Momentum
DarkSlay's "Lead"-ing a New Generation

I think that the Momentum concept is a really great idea, as it's very conceptual and will probably teach us the most about the metagame. But the prospect of having a pokemon with forecast (or having Blubburn) is too great to pass up.
Weather Slayer
"Lead"-ing the New Generation!

I just wanted to add that the other concepts are related to playstyles that I don't enjoy playing and that's why I didn't vote for them. They're very good, though! It's just a preference...
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