CAP 18 CAP 18 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

[EpicUmbreon29]

DetroitLolcat - I added more specific/reasonable examples of the Vantage Point Creator and how it would function (without filling an outclassed or over explored niche) to my explanation, just to let you know that I took your constructive criticism into consideration so that it would be more understandable to you and everyone else.

 

[Valmanway]

DetroitLolcat, I just expanded on the explanation for Powerful Off-the-Bat mixed attacker. That should better explain my submission.

 

[M-WHALE]

Alright, so here's what i got:

Name: The Core Breaker

General Description: This Pokemon would pose a threat to common and effective team cores that include Pokemon that would normally cover each other very well.

Justification: One of the most common complaints I get when talking about competitive Pokemon is how there are a myriad of cookie-cutter teams and that everyone is always using the same Mons at the center of their teams. "Why is this?" they ask. Well, the answer, my friends, is because these teams work. we often see teams hit the top 10 on the ladder that are from different players but are almost identical. One core i saw a ton of in gen 5, for instance, was Amoongus/Heatran/Slowbro. this is because it was very hard to beat those three without special preparation. What i want with this Mon is to be able to break several popular cores in gen VI such as VenuTran and BlissGron, thus threatening them and requiring some smart team-building or constructing a creative core with a lesser used Mon. Hopefully creating this thing can also teach us what makes a good core and how to work around them, as well as the importance of supporting your core with other Mons. We'll also find out if we can succesfully create an entirely new role for a pokemon to fill after six generations of playing this game and being kind of set in our ways!

Questions To Be Answered:

• Is it possible to create a Mon that can easily threaten several prominent cores while not being overpowered?
• Would players be content with sacrificing a spot on their team for the purpose of core-breaking?
• What type combinations threaten the greatest amount of defensive/balanced cores without being susceptible to being hit super effectively by common offensive cores?
• Would the presence of this Pokemon have a lasting effect on the meta game, or would it be easy to work around by supporting common cores well?

Explanation: So, Obviously, the purpose of this guy is to have a list of Pokemon that are commonly used in team cores be synonymous with a list of Pokemon who he does well against. therefore, the users of common cores would either be forced to give the core ample support for combating this Mon, or modifying their core a bit so a member of it can stand against our core-breaker. What we'd be doing here is making a new Pokemon meant to check several other Pokemon who all cover each other well, thus creating a Mon that preys on on set groups of opposing Pokes.The desired effect of this guy on the meta would be to draw some lesser used pokes into the spotlight and see how they perform in this harsh meta, what with the hopefully diminished usage of major OU pokes, and also highlight the importance of smartly supporting you're core to combat things that could threaten it.

Well, that's my CAP submission 2.0 with approval from DetroitLolCat (My first entry was removed due to requiring a custom ability). I appreciate feedback, so comments on my submission are welcome. Good luck to you all!

EDIT: Realized this is fairly similar to Yilx' post, but i think there are enough details to make them separate ideas. If Yilx wants to object, then he can start a conversation with me and we'll figure something out.

EDIT: Fixed format

 

[DeathCapsule]

Name: Creativity in Simplicity

General Description: A pokemon to successfully use it’s type(s) in a new way with support from moves that work well together, just not commonly used together.

Justification: Recently, we’ve seen pokemon in OU using their typing in the same old boring way. Steel type’s are commonly used as walls. Fire type’s are meant a lot of the times for Sunny Day teams. This CAP is used to bring something fresh to the table, using it’s typing in a new way and use it powerfully. Even with the new Fairy-types, the only good ones are the ones that can take hits and then charge up for a powerful attack. You even see most Dragon-types using Outrage, or using THEIR expansive moveset. Plus, they still seem to be on top, along with the rising Dark-types. Often times, now, we see these typings just get stuck in the same niche for their entire playstyle except for the obvious exceptions. Along with this, Generation Six has introduced a lot of strange new moves, like Misty Terrain, Electric Terrain, and Mat Block. This pokemon might be able to take advantage of these new moves to it's advantage, certainly bringing a new light towards these moves!

Questions to be answered:

• Can we use a Pokemon’s type into a new competitive use successfully?
• Will this pokemon be able to overcome the hurdle that typing seems to have limited?
• What role (tank, wall, support, sweeper) will it fit into that most pokemon similar to it can’t do well?
• How will other roles of the opponents work against it?
• Will this Pokemon bring a new look for competitive play’s paradigm for typing?
• What moves can be used to compliment this Pokemon’s unique playstyle?

Explanation: This is meant to see a Pokemon to showcase a new way with typing. As said prior, typing like Steel is just commonly used for walls. Plus, Pokemon that DO attempt a new style of playing with types, like Gliscor, revolve around a specific gimmick to give it that powerful boost. The purpose for this is to find creativity in simplicity, like the title says, because of all this. We’ve seen items be able to give pokemon a really good boost, too, like the Air Balloon or the recently added Assault Vest. I would say the closest types to get there are Psychic-types, but even still, they don’t do it SUCCESSFULLY without backup from another type like Steel. All of these can take into affect to make a CAP unique, but it just needs that extra push to make it TRULY unique without being overbearing. A simple strange use for a type makes it almost like never seen before. Recently, the focus on rarely used moves has come up in the community, and that’s the second part you’d see for this pokemon… sort of. The purpose of it’s move is a mix of both. People can use commonly used moves or rarely used moves and still be reasonably successful with precision. To summarize, A CAP using it’s type in a new and unique way with support from a unique but powerful moveset, allowing for a powerful strength in it’s role, whatever it may be.
As a request from DetroitLolCat, I have included a list of possible situations that could fit into this, but by no means are these meant as suggestions. More of less examples of a moveset for semi-random typings:
Fighting/Ground type (Tank) using Iron Defense, Screech, Hone Claws, and Punishment
Electric type (Wall) using Electric Terrain, Volt Switch, Spikes, and Metal Sound
Poison type (Tank) using Belch, Swagger, Psych Up, Poison Tail (Ideal for the ability Gluttony)
Water/Grass (Sweeper) using Aqua Tail, Power Whip, Ingrain, and Aqua Jet
Psychic/Fire type (Support) Will-O-Wisp, Fire Punch, Baton Pass, Work Up

 

[Impy]

My first post in a CAP. Oh God.

Adaptive Threat: This pokemon will be able to change its role in battle on a whim, throwing off potential counter strategies.

Justification: Competitive Pokemon is a game of chess, in a lot of ways. You have to think like your opponent and predict their next move, and once they've sent out a pokemon, the outcome of a match sometimes hinges on what set it's running. Predict wisely and you win, predict incorrectly and you've lost a member of your team. What if there was a pokemon that could pose one threat, but at any time could pose another threat entirely? A pokemon that could change its stat spread on a whim with minimal consequences could control its own attacking and defending roles, as well as pose a major headache to potential switch-ins that suddenly find themselves invalid counters. Many pokemon can fit a variety of roles, but usually only fit one and only one on a team. This pokemon would be able to fit two or even more on a team, potentially allowing for greater diversity in team building and thus demanding even more thought to be put into the team building process.

Questions to be answered:

• How does a pokemon capable of fulfilling more than one role on a team affect team building?
• If this is to be achieved through a move like Power Trick, how can the pokemon make the best of 4MSS?
• How well could a pokemon built around moves like power trick or a hypothetical "guard trick" fare in standard play? Is it viable? Is it a gimmick?
• Are mixed sets inherently better than physical or special-only sets?
• Can a pokemon based around changing its defensive stats make up for lost momentum? What qualities does it need to make up for this?
• What are the merits of changing its stats to fill a new role over having a wider and more powerful movepool instead?
• How can this pokemon foster a wider variety of strategies on its own and the opponent's team?

Explanation: This guy would hypothetically have balanced stats but lean more towards either the physical or special side. However, a move or combination of moves would allow it to change its stats in battle to give it an advantage against the opponent. This could be anything from a powerful mixed tank that can switch between its attacking stats with a new move, or a fast sweeper capable of becoming a bulky pivot or toolbox on a whim, or even a great wall like Blissey built around using 'guard trick' to control the opponent's potential switchins. Prankster may or may not be important here for a slower pokemon, it's up to the community to find the right balance. Hopefully this pokemon would help us explore the roles of existing pokemon and how to better utilize more of their strengths at once on a team.

Let me know what I can do to improve this. It might have sounded better in my head.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

My first post in a CAP. Oh God.

Adaptive Threat: This pokemon will be able to change its role in battle on a whim, throwing off potential counter strategies.

Justification: Competitive Pokemon is a game of chess, in a lot of ways. You have to think like your opponent and predict their next move, and once they've sent out a pokemon, the outcome of a match sometimes hinges on what set it's running. Predict wisely and you win, predict incorrectly and you've lost a member of your team. What if there was a pokemon that could pose one threat, but at any time could pose another threat entirely? A pokemon that could change its stat spread on a whim with minimal consequences could control its own attacking and defending roles, as well as pose a major headache to potential switch-ins that suddenly find themselves invalid counters. Many pokemon can fit a variety of roles, but usually only fit one and only one on a team. This pokemon would be able to fit two or even more on a team, potentially allowing for greater diversity in team building and thus demanding even more thought to be put into the team building process.

Questions to be answered:

• How does a pokemon capable of fulfilling more than one role on a team affect team building?
• If this is to be achieved through a move like Power Trick, how can the pokemon make the best of 4MSS?
• If this is to be achieved through some kind of ability, like Stance Change, how can this pokemon differentiate itself from Aegislash in utilizing more than one role at once, rather than just using its ability to set up?
• How well could a pokemon built around moves like power trick or a hypothetical "guard trick" fare in standard play? Is it viable? Is it a gimmick?
• Are mixed sets inherently better than physical or special-only sets?
• Can a pokemon based around changing its defensive stats make up for lost momentum? What qualities does it need to make up for this?

Explanation: This guy would hypothetically have balanced stats but lean more towards either the physical or special side. However, a move or combination of moves would allow it to change its stats in battle to give it an advantage against the opponent. This could be anything from a powerful mixed tank that can switch between its attacking stats with a new move, or a fast sweeper capable of becoming a bulky pivot or toolbox on a whim, or even a great wall like Blissey built around using 'guard trick' to control the opponent's potential switchins. Prankster may or may not be important here for a slower pokemon, it's up to the community to find the right balance. Hopefully this pokemon would help us explore the roles of existing pokemon and how to better utilize more of their strengths at once on a team.

Let me know what I can do to improve this. It might have sounded better in my head.

I really like your idea of a pokemon that can change its role throughout a battle, however, I don't think that stat changing moves or abilities are the best way to do this (also, I'm pretty sure that Stance Change only works on Aegislash, similar to how Relic Song only changes Meloetta). I think that a better example of something that can change its role is Mega Scizor, which can effectively run a set that pivots early game and then sweeps late game. Maybe it would be better to focus on making your pokemon versatile through its movepool, stats and typing rather than by actually changing its stats in battle.

 

[Impy]

I really like your idea of a pokemon that can change its role throughout a battle, however, I don't think that stat changing moves or abilities are the best way to do this (also, I'm pretty sure that Stance Change only works on Aegislash, similar to how Relic Song only changes Meloetta). I think that a better example of something that can change its role is Mega Scizor, which can effectively run a set that pivots early game and then sweeps late game. Maybe it would be better to focus on making your pokemon versatile through its movepool, stats and typing rather than by actually changing its stats in battle.

I was going for something a little different, but that's probably more viable. Should I specify that this pokemon just uses moves like power trick to change? I kind of want to see how a pokemon like that can be developed into something relevant. There's Shuckle, sure, but that's a meaningless gimmick.

 

[Stratos]

The best concepts in CAP history have all, in my opinion, had the same couple aspects. For one, they look like a daunting task. For two, they have a concrete end goal that is measurable in the playtest. For three, they are a Pokemon that would actually be an interesting addition to the metagame.

The CAPs that, when you first read them, look almost impossible to execute are usually the ones that stand to teach us the most. They're the ones where we'll really have to tease out the best ideas we have in our brains and really think and work together to make it work. Not only is a spirit of cooperation better than one of antagonism in CAP when youre looking to have a fun time, but thinking is what makes CAP an actual success. A good example here of a "daunting task" would be Malaconda's concept—it originally seemed absurd to drastically change the usage of types in the ou metagame, but we banded together and really fucking thought and we got something amazing and it was a fun ride the whole time (with hiccups sadly but still my fondest CAP experience probably).

Also, it's much more informative to create a CAP with a good operational definition. Expanding on nebulous concepts such as "momentum" and "risk" may be interesting to some people but what this usually ends up leaving us with is no goal. reachzero was very good about creating a goal for the momentum CAP, but that unfortunately turned us away from learning about momentum much at all into just making a blaziken and excadrill counter. Good CAP, but we didn't learn much from the concept. In CAP4, we didn't create a good operational definition, and that was even far more disastrous than when we did. Furthermore, CAPs without a collaborative goal tend to become the more confrontational, less cooperative CAPs, as we argue about our subjective definitions of cloudy terms instead of attempting to actually accomplish something.

The third should need no explanation—sorry birkal but i'd rather not ladder for two weeks against something patently designed to make laddering no fun. Furthermore, there's very little to be gained for the metagame in creating a Pokemon that already more or less exists, such as a great assault vest user (escavalier anyone?)

So what concepts do I think fit these criteria? For me, it's srk1214's BWack to the Future, fatty's No Offense, but This HO Gotta Go, and TooMuchSugar's Scarf is not Dead. These all have a concrete end goal that we can measure in the playtest, they all sound really ridiculously difficult to accomplish, and they all sound like good additions to the metagame.

The reasons that srk's and fatty's concepts are difficult should not be hard to grasp, what with the such drastic changes in XY from BW and the wide variety of options available to offense that we would somehow have to cover with just one pokemon. However, TooMuchSugar's concept seems a little bland—we already have a good amount of choice scarf users that work ok in our metagame! Keldeo, for example, commonly runs choice scarf, and Landorus-T does it too, though a little less afaik (too lazy to check usage stats). In addition, we know most of the things that make a good scarfer—useful resists, high offensive stats, access to u-turn or volt switch. However, there's no doubt that many things hinder Scarf Pokemon in XY, mostly the presence of many offensive threats that can really fuck you up if you give them a turn. In addition, all of those things listed above can make a perfectly good Pokemon that doesnt use Choice Scarf. There's really no pokemon in XY OU that is defined by its Scarf set as there were in previous metagames (things such as Scarf Jirachi in DPP, Scarf Landorus in BW1, or hell even ScarfTar in VGC13 and Scarf Lando-T in XY Doubles). TooMuchSugar, if you were to just tweak your concept to be "Create a Pokemon which would not be OU-viable except for its Scarf set"—or, perhaps a little less ambitiously but also more plausibly "Create a Pokemon which is defined by its Scarf set"—then that would be a concept that would certainly get my vote.

 

[Itsame]

Okay, so this is my first REAL CAP contribution, so any and all criticism is appreciated!

Name: Strange Stats

General Description: A Pokemon with a strange stat distribution that most people would consider unviable, but it has the ability, type, and moves to turn this unusual stat spread into something useable.

Justification: Stats are an important part in any Pokemon, obviously. And different types of stat spreads set up a mon for whatever role it will fill in the metagame. High HP and Atk coupled with decent defenses will result in a bulky physical attacker. High SpAtk and Speed will give you a special sweeper. But all of these mons with defined purposes have a very defined set of base stats. What this Pokemon aims to do is see if Pokemon are solely limited to what archetypes are clearly defined or if they can be viable no matter what their stat spread. This by no means is saying that pokemon with abysmal stats such as Spinda are viable in OU. This just means that the CAP in question would have a BST similar to most OU mons, just arranged in such a way that would seem strange or unviable to some people.

Questions to be Answered:
~Although stats are important, do they serve as major a purpose as movepool, ability, or type?
~If so, what would make certain stat spreads unviable?
~Even if a Pokemon DOES have strange stats, would its other attribute make up for it if they're good enough?
~What would a Pokemon with an abnormal stat spread be able to bring to the OU environment?
~What exactly defines a good stat spread?

Explanation: I don't really know how to explain this any better than I already have, other than give a few examples and suggestions to help illustrate an image of just what is happening here. Just for an example, a mon with a spread of 75/30/115/30/115/180 would have a completely unique role in the meta, provided it got the right moves. It could be a dual screener, utility mon, or just a cleric, depending on what moves or ability it got.

Okay, so that's it. I don't know if it's that good, but all the best ideas have been taken, so... just working with what I've got.

 

[Regime]

Okay, so this is my first REAL CAP contribution, so any and all criticism is appreciated!

Name: Strange Stats

General Description: A Pokemon with a strange stat distribution that most people would consider unviable, but it has the ability, type, and moves to turn this unusual stat spread into something useable.

Justification: Stats are an important part in any Pokemon, obviously. And different types of stat spreads set up a mon for whatever role it will fill in the metagame. High HP and Atk coupled with decent defenses will result in a bulky physical attacker. High SpAtk and Speed will give you a special sweeper. But all of these mons with defined purposes have a very defined set of base stats. What this Pokemon aims to do is see if Pokemon are solely limited to what archetypes are clearly defined or if they can be viable no matter what their stat spread. This by no means is saying that pokemon with abysmal stats such as Spinda are viable in OU. This just means that the CAP in question would have a BST similar to most OU mons, just arranged in such a way that would seem strange or unviable to some people.

Questions to be Answered:
~Although stats are important, do they serve as major a purpose as movepool, ability, or type?
~If so, what would make certain stat spreads unviable?
~Even if a Pokemon DOES have strange stats, would its other attribute make up for it if they're good enough?
~What would a Pokemon with an abnormal stat spread be able to bring to the OU environment?
~What exactly defines a good stat spread?

Explanation: I don't really know how to explain this any better than I already have, other than give a few examples and suggestions to help illustrate an image of just what is happening here. Just for an example, a mon with a spread of 75/30/115/30/115/180 would have a completely unique role in the meta, provided it got the right moves. It could be a dual screener, utility mon, or just a cleric, depending on what moves or ability it got.

Okay, so that's it. I don't know if it's that good, but all the best ideas have been taken, so... just working with what I've got.

I like your thinking! I guess this relates to Sableye, in the way that its stats SUCK, but its unique, one weakness typing and its access to Prankster and moves like Will'O'Wisp. But in your case, I'm guessing you mean like, a Pokemon with a huge weight in HP then maybe Speed, but with abysmal other stats? This concept is neat, but I can see it turning into a cliche concept where it is simply a Pokemon with unique stats. If the movepool, as you suggest, will be viable, then I can see this becoming a unique Pokemon.

I can get where you are coming from this concept, and I think it can be worked on in a way to make it stand out from others to make it look more original!
I would recommend finding a more set stat that you could then suggest some ability to use that would then make up for a low stat or a weakness etc.

 

[Dralcax]

First time getting involved in a CAP, this might be cringe-worthy...

Name: When All You Have Is A Hammer

General description: A Pokemon that only learns ONE move but is competitively viable with that single move

Justification: Movepool is an important part of determining a Pokemon’s viability. Often, STAB and type coverage within the appropriate attacking stat is the key to having a good movepool. Meanwhile, Pokemon like Unown are laughed at for their absolutely pathetic movepool. I wonder if a Pokemon can have all the keys to success with only a single move to use?

Questions to be answered:

-How important is type coverage in today’s metagame?

-What role does an ability take in a battle?

-What makes a move “good”?

-How much can a Pokemon rely on one move?

-How can teammates cover a Pokemon’s shortcomings?

Explanation: So yeah, this guy only learns one move. I want to see how we can design a Pokemon that only needs a single move to be effective. Could be an important status move, could be a really strong offensive move. Many Pokemon rely on having a diverse movepool, and I want to see if a Pokemon can be good without one. Ability, stats, and typing are now more important than ever, as is the move in question in regard to its “spammability”.

Well, that's about it. It seems like an interesting concept, but I'm not sure.

 

[shinyskarmory]

Name: The Spanner in the Works
General Description: A Pokemon designed to be a great inconvenience to an opponent's well-laid plan.
Justification: Lots of players like to have "win conditions" that they keep in mind when building teams. They'll build a team around a sweeper, then bring it in as soon as its counters are eliminated, set up, and sweep for the win. The Spanner aims to bring the opponent's plan to a screeching halt during a crucial stage. If players know that the Spanner is out there and could come in at any moment, it will promote more flexible play and will encourage players to build more balanced teams instead of building for one specific gameplan that they use no matter the situation.

Questions to be answered:

-How do we effectively make plans? How do players react when they have to improvise?
-How much does it take to derail a sweep/long term stalling effort? For the sweeper example above, would the Spanner have to be a solid brick wall preventing the sweeper from getting to the rest of the team, or would a simple tripwire that interferes massively with the sweep without immediately ending it suffice?
-Does the existence of the Spanner really promote flexible play? If there is an effect, is it most felt in the teambuilding stage or in matches?
-Can a Spanner exist without being a universal Swiss Army Knife that you can shoehorn into any team?
-Will the Spanner simply be another Pokemon to check off in a threatlist?

Explanation:

Win conditions are everywhere. On the offensive side, you've got Volcarona, Azumarill, Dragonite, Latios...all of whom can blow through teams after a boost or two when their counters are gone. On the defensive side, you have Mandibuzz, Chansey/Blissey, and Slowbro, who can sit there taking hits and healing the damage back off while they wait for the enemy pokemon to die of status or from the incremental damage they dish out. You could also count Shedinja if you could somehow keep Sandstorm/Hail, every entry hazard, and every status effect off the field.

This concept, though, isn't about setting up a win condition for the CAP community. It's about plugging the tailpipe of your opponent's victory machine.

I've kept this concept intentionally somewhat vague because I don't want to limit the direction of the CAP unduly. That being said, the goal of this concept is NOT "make a pokemon that counters everything". Ideally, we would first choose a "plan" that we want to break (whether it's setup sweeps, stall, SwagPlay, or even something like Baton Pass) and then design a Pokemon to interfere with it. However, I do think it's important that the Spanner not be able to fulfill its role too many times in one match without team support. The Spanner should be giving you a second chance if you looked at their Team Preview and assumed that Scizor was just a bulky pivot, and then it sets up a Swords Dance when you assumed it would U-Turn. It shouldn't be a pokemon like CroCune or CurseLax who serves as a get out of jail free card when you've gotten thoroughly outplayed for most of the match. It also shouldn't be a pokemon you can throw on any team to plug holes, like Choice Scarf Terrakion in 5th gen or Genesect in 6th gen (obviously before it was banned).

This concept also leaves a lot of room for interpretation and has multiple methods we could use to break whatever "plan" we chose to use. Take the Setup Sweeper example from above. We could use a quick Unaware pokemon to come in on a free switch, and force out the sweeper with the threat of being KOed. We could use Psych Up to turn the opponents' boosts to our favor, or Topsy-Turvy to cripple the opponent. We could even consider options like Ghost-type Curse, which is only cleared by switching out and deals significant amounts of damage per turn. I'm sure there's other things as well.

If you want me to narrow this down because it's too broad, I'm happy to. I just thought it was better to start too broad and make the concept more specific as needed then to start too niche and end up making something boring when I expand it.

EDIT 1: Fixed a typo or two

EDIT 2:

shinyskarmory (The Spanner in the Works) - This is a pretty intriguing concept. "Win condition" is definitely a term thrown around at the higher levels of teambuilding; when players build teams they have an end goal in sight. When the Teams are Previewed, players revise their win conditions based on the opponent's strengths and weaknesses. It would be fun to identify common win conditions and counter them, but I'm afraid that this might just devolve into identifying a few common threats and countering them. If you could walk me through an example of how you think we can accomplish this concept, it would make a world of difference.

Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad this concept ended up being a good starting point.

I share your concern about this project's scope ending up too small or too large and your specific concern (about this thing turning into "counter threat XY and Z") is something I'm worried about too.

I think a good deal of the work on Spanner in the Works if it was selected would occur in the Concept Assessment stage. Our main task there (unless I'm incorrect-PLEASE correct me if I am, the only other CAP I've participated in is Necturna) is to decide what the Concept is on a deeper level then in the Submission thread. That would be the time to decide what gameplan we'd want to break. Since every gameplan aims to win the game in a different way and has different obstacles, the Spanner pokemon's design would be drastically different depending on what plan we want it to sabotage. Set up sweepers want their counters eliminated and a free switch; stall teams want all pokemon who hit hard on one side of the spectrum eliminated so they can stall out the opponents' team with a pokemon that walls the other side; a Baton Pass team doesn't bother eliminating counters for its sweeper and just passes it so many boosts that nothing can stop it. All of these tactics require a different pokemon to counter them, and I'm not suggesting we try to counter everything because the metagame really doesn't need another Terrakion.

I'm going to post a hypothetical sample process here that will hopefully enlighten how I think this would work out. Please don't interpret this as poll jumping, as I'm perfectly happy to have us go in a completely different direction from this as well.

Hide

Let's say that somehow, my concept is first slated, and then wins the vote against all the options posted by more experienced CAPers (unlikely but it's happened before). Next, we have Concept Assesment.

Early in the Concept Assessment thread, we discuss what plan we should attempt to throw a wrench in, hopefully the one that will teach us the most about the OU metagame right now. We decide early on in the thread that we specifically want to create a pokemon to throw a roadblock in the way of a setup sweeper who's already set up. (I hope you're not getting tired of this example because it's the one I'm most familiar with)

The next step is determining what stages of the enemy's plan we want to interfere with. Excluding things that pretty much any team wants to do (like setting up and clearing hazards, spreading status, etc), we decide that the target plan has the following essential stages:

1. Eliminate hard counters to the sweeper through any means necessary, and checks if possible.
2. Find a way to bring in the sweeper for free (or as close to free as possible) on a pokemon that it could set up on.
3. Set up the sweeper, preferably getting 2 or more boosts
4. Blow through the enemy team

For the sake of moving this edit along, we decide that our pokemon should specifically be interfering with step 3.

Imagine our opponent brings in his Tyranitar on a Togekiss Air Slash. Because he switched it in on Togekiss who could potentially carry Aura Sphere (but sometimes doesn't because of 4MSS), we naturally assume it's a Specially Defensive variant and switch out to our Terrakion with the intention of setting up a Swords Dance as Tyranitar switches out and proceeding to sweep. Instead, Tyranitar mega evolves and uses Dragon Dance on the switch.

We decided earlier in our hypothetical process that this is where our Spanner would come in. In later topics, we discuss what tradeoffs the Spanner should make in order to be able to halt the opponent's well-earned momentum. We may want the Spanner to serve as a one time hard counter to a setup sweeper (in which case we'd want it to be able to tank one boosted attack as it comes in, cripple or force out the sweeper, and then presumably die), or we may want it to be able to jam a stick in the opponent's bicycle spokes multiple times at the cost of having to sacrifice a team member or otherwise create a free switch. Later topics will function as they normally do; the most critically important one is Concept Assessment, where we'll decide how narrow this pokemon's countering focus.

IMO too large for this topic is "counters all offensive pokemon" or "breaks any wall". Too small would be something like "stops Volcarona, NP Infernape, and Tail Glow Manaphy, loses to everything else". Just right is something like "counters setup sweepers but struggles against Choiced ones or bulky hard hitters" or "can turn dedicated walls into setup bait, but can't take hits from bulky invested pokemon".

If you'd like further refinement and focus just ask.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

All right, time for page 4's concepts! We're approaching the end of concept submissions, and I'll be spending most of tonight responding to PMs as well as the concepts on pages 5 and 6. Once I finish all of those (likely in the wee hours on the 7th), expect a 24-hour warning for concept submissions. This thread will close and a slate will be posted sometime either tomorrow night or early Saturday morning. As always, I'm only replying to concepts that have all 5 areas filled out.
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Mugenman88 (The Cleric Breaker) - The majority of teams don't use clerics. Blissey and Chansey combine for barely more than 8% usage, and they don't always use Heal Bell or Aromatherapy anyway. Although Wish is definitely a useful move, it's usage has dropped significantly this generation. Sylveon, Blissey, and Chansey are the three most prominent Wishers, but two of them have little offensive presence and are easy to take advantage of. Offense is one of the most prominent styles of play in the current OU metagame, and most offensive teams don't carry a Wish user or a cleric. We won't be able to learn a lot about the metagame by countering a somewhat niche strategy in this metagame. I'd like to see some explanation as to why clerics are important enough to have an entire CAP dedicated to them.

RBG (Priority is king) - Priority is pretty well-explored in Gen VI OU, but there are definitely plenty of priority moves and tactics that don't have any Pokemon equipped to use them. Defensive priority hasn't really been explored in this (or any) OU metagame, so this is something worth talking about. However, do you expect us to build a Pokemon that commonly runs four priority moves? Three? Two? If we build a defensive Pokemon, what sort of offensive presence will it have and will it have priority attacks as well? If we build an offensive Pokemon, what are we going to learn about the metagame that we don't already know?

srk1214 (BWack to the Future) - I'd like to see some potential answers to your Questions in the Explanation section. The explanation doesn't really talk about what's changed between this generation and the last, nor do it explain what kind of Pokemon have fallen out of favor since Pokemon X and Y hit the shelves. For example, do you think manual Sun and Rain can rise back to prominence like they did in Generations IV and V? I'd like to see some examples in your Explanation to supplement the great Questions you've asked.

P2X7 (Typewriter) - Type-changing moves are very interesting; they're mysterious moves that are usually only seen at the highest level of play. Moves like Soak and Reflect Type are worth discussing, especially since we've seen them on current and past-gen OU threats like Starmie and Latias, as well as on Necturna as you pointed out. I don't believe this concept interferes with or marginalizes the Typing Discussion, either, because there are moves that can both change the user's type and the opponent's. There's a lot of promise with the concept, and it's supported by a very strong Explanation. I'd like to see a few more Questions to be Answered, because there's definitely a lot to learn about the metagame by realizing your concept.

Lulz. N3CR0M4NC3R (Skill Swapper) - Do you think Skill Swap is a move worth devoting a CAP to? It's really only seen in Doubles at the moment because it's such an unpredictable and uncontrollable move. I'd like to see an explanation as to why Skill Swap is worth pursuing, especially because it is not and hasn't been relevant in any Singles metagame so far.

Karrandras (Ultimate Anti Lead) - I'm not sure if people are still picking their definite leads anymore. The top 25 leads in OU still only add up to 50% usage, and it's very difficult to trap the most common leads right now. Most leads are based on grabbing momentum with U-Turn or Volt Switch rather than setting up hazards, and these Pokemon aren't really dedicated leads. Looking at the top 10 leads in OU right now, only 3 are dedicated leads and one of them (Smeargle) really isn't relevant in OU. Galvantula and Smeargle are rarely seen in high-level play, and most other leads are just "good Pokemon to lead with" rather than dedicated leads. I need to see why stopping dedicated leads is so important in XY OU that we need to dedicate a CAP to it.

wh0sy0urpapa (Banned for Spam) - I like this concept; there are definitely numerous moves in OU that can be chosen without a second thought, and by reducing the number of spammable moves in OU we could create a more skill-based metagame. The only moves you really talked about in your concept were Knock Off, U-Turn and Volt Switch, however. There are a million concepts in this thread that talk about U-Turn or Volt Switch, and there's a lot of potential with this concept that hasn't been talked about.

youngjake93 (Deeply Rooted) - Draining and recovery moves and items exist plenty in OU, but do you think some of the lesser-used ones like Ingrain and Big Root are underappreciated or just unviable? Big Root has Pokemon that could theoretically abuse it, but they usually opt for more reliable recovery such as Leftovers or a defense boost from Assault Vest. Big Root's 30% healing boost isn't usually worth a Pokemon's item slot, could you better explain how you intend to make a viable Pokemon that fulfills your concept?

xAudienceofone (Support Sun Setter) - Reviving dedicated Sunny Day teams is a tough task in Gen VI OU, but I believe this is feasible. One problem with this concept is that it almost mandates Drought as an Ability, which would marginalize the Primary Ability Discussion. Is there a way to accomplish this concept with manual Sun? There needs to be extensive commentary about accomplishing this concept without Drought, or else I'm afraid this concept isn't appropriate for the CAP process.

macle (the anti-luck) - Luck is definitely something worth exploring this generation, and there are definitely tools that counter both secondary effects and entire hax-based strategies. Could you go into more detail about what luck-limiting strategies currently exist and how you think we can build a CAP that accomplishes your concept?

leafflare8097 (Operation: Nullify) - The only move you mention that reverses the opponent's condition is Topsy-Turvy (Defog accomplishes a role similar to this, though). Are you trying to make a Topsy-Turvy concept or are there other moves other than Topsy-Turvy that fit your concept? Most opposing teams don't heavily rely on setup sweepers (although they certainly carry them!), so I'm not sure if reversing opposing setup moves is a worthy concept. I'm concerned about the scope of this concept, there are only a handful of moves and abilities that reverse opponents moves, could you list and explain some examples of what you're thinking of?

Torkoals (Momentum freezer) - Freeze is an unexplored status effect, but that's largely because there's not much to do with it. There are no moves that inflict Freeze reliably, and Freeze is a ridiculously powerful status. How do you intend to make spreading Freeze a reliable OU strategy, and how do you intend to keep it balanced when very few Pokemon are immune to it?

Oglemi (Taking my lumps) - As odd as it is, defensive pivoting has really fallen out of favor recently? However, "defensive pivot" seems like a pretty nebulous term; could you go into detail about what Pokemon you wish to emulate from past metagames? If this concept wants to build a new role from scratch, could you go into detail about what you expect a defensive pivot will do?

fatty (No Offense, but this HO gotta go) - This seems like a really interesting concept. Stallbreaking has been around for generations, but as Pokemon has shifted towards offense the idea of offense-breaking with one Pokemon has disappeared. It's much easier to mixed attack than to mixed wall, but past generations have shown there are definitely catch-all walls. There's definitely a lot to learn with this concept: how stallbreakers function, why stallbreakers currently function better than offense-breakers, whether or not it's possible to break offense with one Pokemon in 2014, etc. If there's anything else I'd like to see in your Explanation it's some discussion as to whether or not you think your concept can succeed.

Cornholioam (A bridge for the check. (Send the revenge killer)) - I don't really understand what you're saying with this concept. Are you trying to make a Pokemon that turns one of its teammates into a counter for an existing Pokemon? How do you expect to do that, and do you think a Pokemon that accomplishes this exists in a current or former metagame? I'm not sure if your concept implies that we should select a Pokemon and counter it or design a Perfect Mate for a Pokemon that counters a different Pokemon. Could you clarify what you mean with your concept, it's not very readable right now.

Albacore (Specialized Emergency Button) - This is an interesting idea, but do you think it's possible to accomplish this? We're talking about switching into any stat-boosting Pokemon at any time in the match and expecting to beat it, but not being able to do so at any other point in the match. I'm not sure if it's possible to combine the hit-taking ability with the frailty to only stop a sweep once, could you give an example of what could successfully fulfill your concept? If you don't think an example of your concept can be found in a current or previous metagame (which is fine), can you provide evidence as to why this concept is feasible? This seems like a cool idea, but I'm not sure if we're capable of building it.

Godgers (The CLAW) - I'm not sure if the Binding Band is really a viable item. As you mentioned, there is no point in using Fire Spin or Infestation in OU right now, but Binding Band already exists and hasn't provided that incentive. The main draw of trapping moves like Fire Spin, Magma Storm, and Infestation is that they trap the opponent, they prevent the opponent from switching. The damage is immaterial, and raising the damage from the trapping move is not worth forgoing Leftovers, Life Orb, or any other item. Trapping moves are interesting, definitely, but Binding Band is not the way to bring them into the limelight.

Scorpio (The Oddball) - This is a pretty cool concept, very similar to Stratagem's concept two generations ago. This one is even broader than 'Gem's, though. Although I'm a bit concerned there's not enough direction with this concept, there's definitely a good idea behind this concept and we'll definitely learn something about the metagame by realizing this concept.

 

[Birkal]

I'm going to be self-centered for a little bit and talk about my concept (Fully Uncompetitive). There has been a ridiculous amount of buzz over this concept, much more than I could have ever imagined. Responses have ranged from being hailed as the best CAP concept ever to users telling me I should step down from my position as Head CAP Moderator. #cap ignites on fire whenever the concept comes up. When the effect of a single post have caused a tidal wave this massive, I know I am doing something right. The term 'uncompetitive' may be the most hot-button subject we've ever touched as a Create-A-Pokemon Project, and that's why I fully believe we should dive into the concept for CAP 1.

The concept is taboo, yes, but there is nothing wrong with that. Frankly, it's weak to back down from a concept because it challenges us. The Overused forum had a poor discussion on uncompetitive elements on the ladder. But you have to remember, the Create-A-Pokemon Project has discussion rules and regulations down to a tee. We have active conversation leaders who are voted on, specific topics to discuss, and ultimate goals that come through. The Overused suspect thread had none of those, which is why I believe that CAP is the perfect medium to discuss what is uncompetitive. This concept is doing what CAP was intended to do — give us relevant information about the Overused metagame through intelligent discussion. None of the other concepts in this thread, in my opinion, are more relevant than a discussion of uncompetitive elements in competitive Pokemon.

This concept isn't about creating a SwagPlay Pokemon. In fact, let's please not do that. Think DPP Wobbuffet, which could switch in and threaten most any Pokemon. Think BW Deoxys-S, which was banned due to essentially guaranteeing hazards. Heck, think of something entirely new. Pokemon is filled with a lot of really weird things that could work well to the point of a high success rate. That's what the focus is here. I'm not advocating we create a Pokemon people have already seen and already raged at on the ladder. Through my concept, I'm suggesting that we create a unique Pokemon that when people see it, they say a quick prayer. Anything that fits within this lovely definition by DougJustDoug will fulfill the concept:

[22:49] <@~DougJustDoug> I associate uncompetitive with any tactic or mechanic that has a very high success rate with a very low skill element required to execute it, and requires highly specialized counters or near-perfect execution by your opponent in order to stop it.​

And now for some specific responses!

The best concepts in CAP history have all, in my opinion, had the same couple aspects. For one, they look like a daunting task. For two, they have a concrete end goal that is measurable in the playtest. For three, they are a Pokemon that would actually be an interesting addition to the metagame.

The third should need no explanation—sorry birkal but i'd rather not ladder for two weeks against something patently designed to make laddering no fun.

Thank you for implying that my concept looks like a daunting task and has a concrete end goal; I believe in those aspects as well. In response to the third point, when has the Create-A-Pokemon Project ever been about the playtest ladder? Yes, it's an important facet to the process, but it is by no means an attribute that one should user to base their entire opinion of a concept. If we can use Concept Assessment and the creation process to teach us about an important metagame aspect, that is ultimately desirable. I think you're overblowing the relevance of a CAP on the playtest ladder anyways; Malaconda and Mollux were both poor team choices for their respective ladders. Heck, even the powerhouse Aurumoth wasn't used by PttP in the CAP 4 Playtest Tournament, and he won it!

You have the right to hold your opinion, but I hope that not everyone buys into it. The CAP Playtest is as fun as you make it, regardless of the Pokemon we create for it. Ultimately, the Create-A-Pokemon Project is about the journey, not the destination, and that's where my concept is focused.

EDIT: In response to your post below, I suppose it is a difference in opinion. I prefer to support concepts with thought-provoking concepts that lead to intense discussions and yield results we could've never imagined. You'd prefer one that has ample definitions and predictability in order focus in on a specific aspect of competitive Pokemon. Nothing wrong with either opinion here at CAP, that's just how we differ, it seems.

(Fully Uncompetitive) - I have mixed feelings towards this concept. One one hand, we'd likely spend the Concept Assessment defining competitiveness and move forward by violating that definition as best we can. That's definitely a worthy endeavor, but at the moment Smogon itself has refused to define the most contentious term in Pokemon. Furthermore, Smogon has been less than consistent in banning Pokemon for "uncompetitive" reasons, producing reasons such as "does its job too well" and "reduces the game to a coinflip". There's definitely a lot to learn with this concept, but nailing down definitions during Concept Assessment is a massive task.

There's nothing wrong with having a stimulating Concept Assessment stage. In fact, I strive to make concepts that have an intellectual first step. It is my personal favorite stage in the Create-A-Pokemon Project, and I'd hate for us to be stuck with a boring topic that lacks relevance or intrigue. Quite frankly, I don't care that Smogon is inconsistent about its bannings due to uncompetitive reasons. Rather, that's even more justification for us to pursue this concept. Let's develop a solid definition, and validate it to Smogon through our process. It's a MASSIVE order, but I believe in you and this community to do it justice. Don't back down because the concept is daunting, but embrace the challenge!

 

[Stratos]

Thank you for implying that my concept looks like a daunting task and has a concrete end goal

I'm sorry but what? I never meant to imply that and if i did then I apologize because that was not my intention at all and I don't believe that your concept does. It specifically falls in the foot steps of the two concepts i named, "momentum" and "risk," that were nebulous and involved more arguing about definitions than about the metagame—the kind that i don't like. The goal of your concept is to make a Pokemon which is uncompetitive. Compare this to those which I said I supported: to make a Pokemon which causes a resurgence of a BW characteristic (such as dragon/steel or weather wars), a Pokemon which successfully dismantles many offensive teams, a Pokemon whose best set is choice scarf. Three of these have clearly defined, objective operational definitions about which nobody can disagree. History tells us that the disagreement over what is "uncompetitive" will plague the process from start to finish if we choose your concept, instead of us focusing on creating an effective Pokemon.

Some people believe that CAP's goal is to inform metagame discussions by defining terms via a project—but I disagree. CAP isn't a tool for meta-discussion about terms used in metagame discussions; CAP has always historically been most fun and effective when we dissect the actual metagame itself.

 

[youngjake93]

Well I have some ideas on how to make Big Root or at least some of the lesser used draining/recovery moves viable that may work.
Ideally, your Pokemon using draining/recovery has a low HP stat, but still manages longevity through defenses, typing, ability, etc. Some Pokemon have used resistances and defenses to provide time for these moves to work(Ferrothorn, Venusaur), some just deal enough raw damage to heal back up(Conkeldurr, Swirlix), some utilize moves such as Spore, Substitute, Protect, Encore, etc to buy time(Stallrein, Breloom, Whimsicott).

Potentially, we could go the fast route or the slow bulky route or even the ability route(Toxicroak, Breloom, Whimsicott), but the end-game is to create a Pokemon that can find a way to spend a lot of turns on the field in a row at minimal risk to maximize reward from these moves.
One thing that is interesting is that only Smeargle has access to Ingrain+Baton Pass and saw use despite craptastic stats which could be a cool idea to play with.

I don't want to go too much in-detail in the broad concept stage though

 

[shinyskarmory]

Birkal: The concept of a pokemon meant to be as uncompetitive as possible is cool but does have some flaws. Putting aside the fact that putting this thing on the CAP ladder is going to be like playing against SwagPlay EVERY SINGLE MATCH (the pokemon equivalent of headbutting a wall until you collapse unconscious on the ground), I don't think we're going to do any better assessing the definition of uncompetitive here then on OU.

Everyone has a different opinion on where they believe the "line" of uncompetitive is. Everyone draws the line between "uncompetitive" and "playing the odds" somewhere different. This is because Uncompetitive is not a binary output. You don't put a move or mechanic into a computer and have it put out "UNCOMPETITIVE" or "NOT UNCOMPETITIVE". Uncompetitive is a spectrum of things that range from 100% luck based mechanics like Moody all the way to stuff like Scald where you can use it any time they don't have a Water Absorb/Storm Drain mon in front for a 30% chance of crippling whatever they switched in.

Now, thinking about Uncompetitive as a scale instead of a lightswitch, I can already see what we've defined as Uncompetitive. Uncompetitive doesn't mean no counterplay (Double Team has been banned since forever because even though it has counterplay, the stuff you have to do to counterplay it is terrible other then countering it). Uncompetitive doesn't mean mechanics that on a crucial turn can decide the outcome of the match, or crits WOULD be banned. Just about everything in Pokemon is Uncompetitive to some degree or another; the question is, "where does a UNCOMPETITIVE move/ability/mechanic become so unacceptable ("cheap" in ordinary gaming parlance) that we have to ban it because it's bullshit it's making the game no fun to play for anyone". The answer seems to have already been made clear: Evasion, OHKO moves, and Funbro are all things that we've decided just make the game suck. The only exception to "we've already decided" is SwagPlay, and the jury is still out on that one.

Making a CAPmon to decide as a community what is too bullshit uncompetitive to deal with isn't a great use of our time. We already have clauses in place for that and in none of the Policy Review threads I skimmed while writing this post did I find any hint of the Leadership moving the line of what is considered to be too uncompetitive to deal with.

 

[ZirconSubway]

DetroitLolcat- As EpicUmbreon and a few others have done, I would like to let you know that your constructive criticism was much appreciated, and very helpful in trying to re-determine what, specifically, my idea was trying to say. I added more to my post explaining this, however, in short, the big idea that I was trying to communicate in my post, was to make a 'gimmick' CAP (i.e. Some sort of 'mon based around a move/ability/typing generally viewed as obsolete in the meta) legitimately viable in the competitive scene.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Time for page 5! Gotta respond to all these concepts before bed! As always, I'm only responding to concepts with all five sections filled out. I'm going to respond to pages 5 and 6 tonight, and then I'm going to respond to all of today's PMs. If you have any questions about my feedback or have edited your concept and want additional feedback, please PM me! A lot of users already have PM'd me and I've gotten to talk to a lot of people about interesting concepts. :)

This post is going to have both page 5 and 6 responses on it. My next post will come shortly after this one has finished and will contain a 24-hour warning. I can't guarantee feedback on anything posted after this deadline, but I will certainly try to respond to any and all PMs and maintain an IRC presence.

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Solstice (Two-Status Troublemaker) - Reading your Explanation, I'm not sure if this concept is as interesting as it seems. You mention different ways of setting up Sleep such as Hypnosis, Yawn, Spore, and Sleep Powder, but three of those moves are essentially identical: Hit button, opponent sleeps. Yawn does work differently, but it's just easier to play around. Although there are definitely two-status combinations currently unexplored in OU (Sleep+another status), there are also combinations spread all throughout current and former OU metagames. Rotom-Wash can run Burn+Paralysis, thought did that more in the previous generation. Heatran usually runs Burn and Poison, and Double Powder was reasonably common in the lower tiers last generation. Although this concept would teach us about the effects of status in OU, I'm not sure we'd learn something that studying the same strategy in other metagames wouldn't teach us.

Robert Alfons (The Multitasker) - This is a pretty cool concept; we haven't had a concept strictly about teambuilding in a long time and it'd be interesting to see what roles the CAP community wants the Pokemon to fulfill. Although it's a risk to spread a Pokemon thinly like your concept wants, it'd be a fun an interesting endeavor. How distinct do you expect the two roles to be? I'd like to see you talk about some of the directions you think this CAP can reasonably go in, and whether or not you think something like your concept exists in a current or former metagame. Nice work!

aXl (The Inoculated) - I like this concept as well. Arguably, Cawmodore and Mollux both fulfilled this concept in the last generation and both of those Pokemon were rousing successes. There are so many ways to let a Pokemon overcome the shortcomings of its typing and I believe there's a lot of potential for this concept. The only concern I have with this concept is that so many CAPs in the past have fulfilled the same role. However, I don't believe that's too large an obstacle to overcome because we haven't done a concept exactly like yours before.

waluigibros (Hyper Aggressor) - There's nothing explicitly wrong about this concept, but there are just so many concepts like this one I'm not sure if anything stands out about Hyper Aggressor. There's no doubt that pivoting and pivot-stopping are popular ideas right now, and there's not much to say about this concept that hasn't been said. If there's any way you can differentiate your concept from similar ideas, it would make your concept stand out better.

NeLLY979 (Transform and Roll Out) - I'm not convinced that Transform is a viable strategy in Gen VI OU. Even if it had better distribution, in what situations would Transforming into the opponent be a worthy strategy? I can think of some potentially niche situations where Transforming into the opponent could be clever, but I'm not convinced that we would get a worthy product out of this concept. Please add more to your Explanation detailing what attributes you believe a Pokemon should have to be a capable user of Transform.

TooMuchSugar (Scarf Is Not Dead) - This is a nice concept as well. I was skeptical of this concept at first but after talking about it on IRC with some others I'm more convinced that Choice Scarf has a lot of room to be expanded on in this generation. We had a pretty great Choice Scarfer in Genesect before it was banned, and since then Choice Scarf has sort of fallen by the wayside. Landorus-T and Keldeo are still quality scarfers, but Choice Scarf has never seen less usage since its inception than now. I'm not sure if it's particularly enlightening to build another revenge killer, though. Although it's somewhat interesting to study Choice Scarf's decline, I'm not sure if this project is conducive to learning a lot about the metagame right now.

ohgeedubs (Outclassed) - This concept reminds me a lot of the Onslaught concept posted earlier in the thread. This concept is pretty cool, we'd definitely learn a lot about offensive cores and we'd get to import a strategy common to some other tiers and past metagames into OU. I don't like the term "outclassed" either, although I understand what you mean by it. We'd try to build a "Robin" to Mega Charizard or Mega Pinsir's "Batman" (or whichever Mega we choose, naturally). This concept's very well thought out, in my opinion!

neep (One Hit Wonder) - I'm a fan of this idea. Weather had its time in the Sun (and Rain and Sandstorm and Hail) last generation, as stalwarts like Venusaur, Excadrill before the ban, and Keldeo showed the world just how great a Pokemon can be with the right field effects active. Although weather teams have all but disappeared this generation, standalone weather sweepers (Mega Charizard Y) and walls (Tyranitar, Hippowdon) are still going strong. It would be very interesting to see two-Pokemon weather cores, especially with the Drizzle+Swift Swim ban a thing of the past. This concept shows a lot of promise, but I'd like to see a meatier explanation with more examples before the deadline.

ryby (Item Master) - This concept is interesting. As you pointed out, there are Pokemon that can completely change roles if you slap on a Life Orb instead of Leftovers or Choice Item. Starmie's a good example of that; it can be a defensive Rapid Spinner with Leftovers or a fearsome attacker with Life Orb. Heatran can be a wall with Leftovers, a wallbreaker with Choice Specs, or a great utility Pokemon with Air Balloon. There are myriad items that can fit with your concept, and I think your concept is something worth pursuing. Good job!

Garagara (Offensive Defence) - What exactly is an "offensive stall Pokemon"? Do you mean a Pokemon that can just keep attacking to preserve its own health? Most offensive Pokemon operate like that already; sweepers and wallbreakers keep themselves alive by hitting the opponent or forcing switches before they can be attacked. Although we can definitely build an offensive Pokemon that keeps itself alive well, by definition that's not going to be a stall Pokemon. Stall Pokemon keep themselves alive by taking hits, offensive Pokemon keep themselves alive by preventing their opponents from hitting them. Although we can make a Pokemon that does what your concept intends, I'm not sure if it would qualify as an "offensive stall Pokemon".

Dangerachi (Lead Neutralizer) - I question your premise about how leads function in XY OU. Although Smeargle and Galvantula are common Focus Sash leads, the former is almost never seen at a high level of play and the latter is a pretty niche Pokemon. Hazard setting at the beginning of a match isn't as prevalent as it used to be; a quick glance at the lead stats confirms this. Many players don't use dedicated leads and usually throw their U-Turner or Volt Switcher out first, or just look at their opponent's team and counter their opponent's predicted lead. What I don't like about this concept is that if the opponent sees a dedicated Lead Neutralizer in Team Preview, they can just lead with a different Pokemon. This concept seems a bit easy to play around, could you explain why you believe this concept will lead to a successful product?

Project_Mars (Uncommonly Typed Wall) - We've made some uncommonly typed walls in the past in CAP such as Mollux and Malaconda, and both of those Pokemon granted us a wealth of knowledge about the metagame. It's perfectly fine to polljump a little in your Explanation, please expand on what unexplored type combinations you think could lead to this concept succeeding. Your Justification could also use a little cleaning up (it seems incomplete), and I'd like to see some more speculation in your Explanation section. There's promise in this concept, but I need to see a lot more.

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M-WHALE (The Core Breaker) - First of all, remember to format your concept correctly. You currently have the name bolded and the General Description posted afterward. Look at the other concepts that are formatted correctly and adjust yours. This is a pretty good concept, we could discover new offensive or defensive cores to replace the ones we counter. Although there are a couple concepts similar to this in the thread, I see promise in this concept and enjoyed reading your Explanation.

DeathCapsule (Creativity in Simplicity) - There are a lot of concepts already that deal with typing, although yours does set itself apart with exploring moves that don't commonly accompany the typing we choose. Do you think only adding underused move combinations will be enough to redeem a poor type combination? When we created Mollux, the CAP your concept most resembles, we had to carefully select a stat spread and ability to go along with the movepool. Could you provide a few examples of moves that could accompany various type combinations that could fit your concept?

Impy (Adaptive Threat) - First of all, the format needs to be fixed with your concept. It's the same problem that M-WHALE had, so turn to the formatting correction I posted in his feedback two concepts above. Regarding your content, do you think it's possible to fit within CAP's restrictions and still fulfill your concept? Pokemon, once selected for a team, can't change what they're capable of in most cases. The few Pokemon that can change their role on a whim do so with a forme-changing item or Ability, neither of which we can use on your concept. Do you think there are other abilities or moves that can create the level of versatility you concept needs? I'm skeptical, and would like to see you address this in your Explanation.

Itsame (Strange Stats) - This concept intrigues me. We've made a neglected Ability CAP (Cyclohm) and a neglected typing CAP (Mollux), so it would be interesting to see if we can redeem a poor stat spread the same way we redeemed typing and ability. There are definitely existing Pokemon that accomplish your concept; Starmie with its average 100 Special Attack comes to mind. Your Explanation is a bit weak right now. What shortcomings does your hypothetical stat spread have? How can that Pokemon overcome it?

Dralcax (When All You Have Is A Hammer) - This concept won't be acceptable because it completely marginalizes the Movepool Discussions in the CAP process. Although this product could -possibly- teach us something about a certain move, it goes way too far in restricting the CAP. We would not have a fun process basing a Pokemon around a single move, and we wouldn't be able to discover how other moves complement the one we select.

shinyskarmory (The Spanner in the Works) - This is a pretty intriguing concept. "Win condition" is definitely a term thrown around at the higher levels of teambuilding; when players build teams they have an end goal in sight. When the Teams are Previewed, players revise their win conditions based on the opponent's strengths and weaknesses. It would be fun to identify common win conditions and counter them, but I'm afraid that this might just devolve into identifying a few common threats and countering them. If you could walk me through an example of how you think we can accomplish this concept, it would make a world of difference.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

This is a 30-hour warning for Concept Submissions. This thread will close and a slate will be posted at 12:00 PM EST on Saturday, March 8, 2014.

Between now and then I should be on pretty often and will attempt to respond to any concerns you approach me with. However, I can't guarantee feedback on every concern as the deadline approaches. Thank you all for your hard work, and thanks for discussing the concepts that already exist in addition to submitting your own. It's still perfectly fine to edit your concepts or post a concept between now and the deadline, but I cannot guarantee a response. I'll certainly try though, and I bet you'll find me on IRC plenty between now and then. :)

 

[termi]

Robert Alfons (The Multitasker) - This is a pretty cool concept; we haven't had a concept strictly about teambuilding in a long time and it'd be interesting to see what roles the CAP community wants the Pokemon to fulfill. Although it's a risk to spread a Pokemon thinly like your concept wants, it'd be a fun an interesting endeavor. How distinct do you expect the two roles to be? I'd like to see you talk about some of the directions you think this CAP can reasonably go in, and whether or not you think something like your concept exists in a current or former metagame. Nice work!

Well, the idea is to let it perform roles that really differ from each other. There are, of course, Pokemon who can pull off sets that can function both as a wallbreaker and as a sweeper, but these are both offensive roles. The idea is to create a Pokemon that has both offensive and defensive niches (for example, revenge killer + damage sponge + sweeper) and can pull off not only two offensive niches or two defensive niches on a single set, but can also viably fulfill an offensive niche AND a defensive niche on the same set. The first thing that would pop up in my mind that can do this would probably be Clefable, as it can run an Unaware set (defensive niche) with Calm Mind to set up with when the time's right (offensive niche). Same thing could go for Mega Scizor, which can be a handy utility pivot that can also use Bullet Punch with its high Attack stat to revenge kill if needed. I'd be looking for somethignt hat can pull off sets like these, and in such a way that it's optimalized to function defensively on defensive teams, but can switch to an offensive role if the team can't wall the opponent's team, while it can also function offensively on a hyperoffensive team but can sponge hits from Pokemon that typically threaten most hyperoffensive teams if needed.

Like I stated in my original post, it functions as a bit of a safety net when it's most needed, but can function very well when it isn't needed as a safety net just as easily. It's a bit like Impy's concept in that it can change its role in the team if the opponent comes with a counterstrategy, except this Pokemon should be able to do so without changing its stat spread or anything. The challenge is to make this work without just giving the CAP over 600 BST and a cool typing and a movepool that makes Mew cry in a corner, but to give it just the right stat spread, typing and movepool to do so.

 

[Cretacerus]

There are a lot good concepts around. Here are some of my thoughts, the following are among my favourites

shockwave527: Pilot Fish (or Scope Out)
I quite like the idea of this concept. More information about your opponent means more control over the game, so this concept has the potential to be a real boon to strategic play. Rather than being forced to take blind risks early in the match, each player could assess their opponent’s team and from there on come up with a plan on how to approach it.
That being said, I’m still a bit unsure on how you intend the “Pilot Fish” to function. You really don’t want to spend more than one turn on figuring out the opponent’s set, so making it a defensive Pokémon that plans to stay in for longer periods seems to be a bit controversial (unless it can handle the opposing strategies all on its own). Maybe you could elaborate more on what this Pokémon can do, once it obtains the information.

Dummy007: Major Third
I, too, have enjoyed using cores from lower tiers in OU, and they turn out to work quite decently. Some of those cores can even surpass OU equivalents especially in terms of defensive synergy, but sadly lack the utility to make a big impact. This concept could easily cover up for such shortcomings, and give us a brand new core to play with.
What I like about this concept is that it gives us just so much to explore. Creating a set of three complementary Pokémon (and balancing them out) is not an easy task, but there is certainly plenty to learn from the process, whether we succeed with it or not. Besides, the concept might not be as complicated as it may seem at first, considering that there are already a couple of potential cores out there that we could easily use as basis. You did a really good job in presenting this concept in such a clear and well defined way.

colourcodedchaos: What Might Have Been
Remaking a weaker Pokémon and giving it a second chance to see OU definitely has a certain appeal to it, and would be a nice chance for the community to fiddle with the fine mechanics behind a Pokémon’s performance. It will also be interesting to see, whether that Pokémon would take up the same role in OU as it had in the lower tiers, or whether the different environment would cause it to fill a different niche.
As XY NU has yet to form, your Justification would have to be rephrased, but that is more of an optical issue. The concept itself remains as relevant as before, and can work equally with any Pokémon that falls short of OU.
Your Questions To Be Answered focus mostly on how the created Pokémon will fare in OU, and what this teaches us about the tiers. Most of this knowledge will only be acquired at the end of the project, during the CAP Playtesting.
I would like to see you include some questions regarding the creation process itself, as there is a lot we can actually discover along the journey.

Clankenator007: Onslaught
This is one of my favorites right now. “Onslaught Teams” are something that has not been touched on much in the past, although it is certainly a unique and capable strategy in the game. Most of the current users seem to be physically inclined and limited to certain attacking types, so there is lots of unexplored area for the CAP Project to cover.
The concept has a concrete and defined goal, and the questions provide clear guidance for the project. All of them are very relevant to the topic and will almost certainly find an answer by the conclusion of the CAP.
In my opinion this concept has all the means to be a highly enjoyable and successful CAP.

Dragonblaze052: Redemption
Another concept I very much like. Similarly to colourcodedchaos‘s What Might Have Been this is all about redesigning a Pokémon for OU. However, this has a stronger focus on the unique roles you can find Pokémon taking up outside of OU, while not limiting the options to the lower tiers. Honestly speaking, I ended up liking this concept even better for those reasons.
Your questions are accurate and cover the most important parts of the concept, and you do well by providing lots of concrete examples to underline your thoughts. This is very helpful for outlining your concept, which is quite extensive by nature. I’d really like to see, where this concept could possibly lead us to.


Besides these, there are still many other concepts that would be similarly exiting to work with, but unfortunately I won't be able to comment on each of them individually.
I really enjoyed concepts like alexwolf's Knock Off Punisher, wh0sy0urpapa's Banned for Spam and Albacore's Specialized Emergency Button, which try to counteract overpopular and abusable strategies, in order to create a more skill-based and balanced metagame. Knowledge gained from such concepts is more than relevant and appreciated nowadays.
On the other side, nyttyn's Power for a Price, wiithepeople's The Frail Sponge and Oglemi's Taking my lumps let us explore interesting new niches. What I like about those three concepts in particular is that they, too, have the potential to add more depth to the game. All of them perform only under specific situations, forcing the players to choose their moves very carefully and plan ahead strategically. It would be interesting to see, how such playstyles could affect the metagame around them.

Whichever concept may come out on top, I am sure it won't disappoint. Good luck to all of you!

 

[Project_Mars]

Edited my post, adding in a few ideas for dual types and a mono-type.
As for Concepts that I like:
Lasagne's Parting Shot Pivot: Parting Shot is, in my opinion, one of the bigger disappointments in this generation because of how limited it's distribution is. I would love to see what it could do if it was given to something better suited to run it.
Wiithepeople's The Frail Sponge: Given there are a few new ways to deal with status moves this generation, plus a new type with an immunity, this concept would be fun to explore too.
ohgeedub's Outclassed: It's an interesting concept and the fact that it is designed specifically to be a good OU pokemon who's role is done better by a Mega Evolution will provide for an interesting task for the CAP process, who tends to go for the optimal.

Other concepts I find good are Item Master and The Core Breaker

 

[TooMuchSugar]

TooMuchSugar (Scarf Is Not Dead) - This is a nice concept as well. I was skeptical of this concept at first but after talking about it on IRC with some others I'm more convinced that Choice Scarf has a lot of room to be expanded on in this generation. We had a pretty great Choice Scarfer in Genesect before it was banned, and since then Choice Scarf has sort of fallen by the wayside. Landorus-T and Keldeo are still quality scarfers, but Choice Scarf has never seen less usage since its inception than now. I'm not sure if it's particularly enlightening to build another revenge killer, though. Although it's somewhat interesting to study Choice Scarf's decline, I'm not sure if this project is conducive to learning a lot about the metagame right now.

Thanks for the feedback! I understand the concern about how focused my concept is on studying a single item. My idea was that, through studying Choice Scarf, we could gain understanding of not just the item itself, but of a lot of other changes that have come with XY - particularly the greater emphasis on momentum and the change in speed's importance in OU. This concept would let us see at what point it is optimal to potentially risk momentum in order to achieve greater speed, what changes in the importance of speed have occurred (I can't make this much more specific because I'm not sure what the answer is), and what other pokemon our Choice Scarfer would be competing for a teamslot with. I feel that these are great opportunities to learn about the metagame, particularly early in the generation.

I edited some of this into my concept to make it clearer. Thanks again for the help!

 

[xAudienceofone]

xAudienceofone (Support Sun Setter) - Reviving dedicated Sunny Day teams is a tough task in Gen VI OU, but I believe this is feasible. One problem with this concept is that it almost mandates Drought as an Ability, which would marginalize the Primary Ability Discussion. Is there a way to accomplish this concept with manual Sun? There needs to be extensive commentary about accomplishing this concept without Drought, or else I'm afraid this concept isn't appropriate for the CAP process.

Thanks for the response. I see your issue with my suggestion, that it is limited in some ways by its role, but I'd like to ask this: won't all of our created pokemon be limited? I've seen some excellent ideas around here, and I wish it was an easier task so that we could make more, but I also see every pokemon fulfilling a role really well or filling a few roles with competence. I think that while the primary or secondary ability would yes, likely be drought, the other abilities might open up new routes of play. Setting sun would then be manual, but an ability like Solar Power might make it a bulky sweeper. A third example (while we're on abilities) might be giving it something like Iron Barbs or Rough Skin, giving it a third role as a general defensive 'mon.

Looking at your direct question though, I would say that if it is defensive enough, and with good defensive typing, any pokemon can manually set up a 5 or 8 turn weather effect. This one would be no different, provided it could take a hit or force its opponent out. Maybe back it up with Wish or Recover to get a little health back, or give it leftovers. So yes, Drought would be there, but I think that gives us more of a challenge than taking away the learning process. We have to make it work with Drought and make it feasible in other scenarios with other abilities and strategies.

I'd love your thoughts on that, DetroitLolcat. I could be misinterpreting this process as well though, as I'm new to the forum. No matter what, I hope to be of some use in the coming phases of this.

Thank you for your time.