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CAP 13 CAP 2 - Concept Submissions

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by Rising_Dusk, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. NTT


    Apr 4, 2010
    Name: Back to Basics

    General Description: A pokemon that can consistently remove the effects of items and/or abilities from a game, though not necessarily both at once.

    Justification: In today's competitive metagames, a pokemon's viability can be defined by their ability, potentially making or breaking them. Similarly certain types of movesets just wouldn't exist without the introduction of items. This CAP would aim to explore how the current metagame would look if it was stripped down to it's most basic competitive fundaments; Effective use of a pokemon's stats and movepools, and team synergy.

    Questions to be Answered;
    •How dependent are pokemon in OU on their abilities and the ability to equip themselves with items?
    •When the reliability of an ability/item is at risk, would previously aggressive pokemon begin to be seen playing more conservative sets, and vice-versa?
    •Would previously unviable/outclassed pokemon find new niches in the OU metagame if their threats, or superior counterparts, were stripped of key advantages?
    •Would balanced teams begin to rise in usage if the features integral to a team or team member's success could be compromised at any moment?
    •Would the predominance of weather teams be lessened if the means to abuse this weather could be compromised at any moment?

    Explanation: As mentioned before, in the beginning pokémon was a game centered around making the most of your team member's stats and moves, because that was "all there was". With so many other factors affecting how a pokemon can be played or played against, these two areas are no longer the absolute fundaments they once were. While both are still of critical importance, a pokemon's ability can make a seemingly inferior poke a far superior option to the point where one poke is potentially left in complete obscurity (The eternal struggle for dominance between Dragonite and Salamence is a great illustration of this). The potential risk of losing one's ability may not be enough to bring a pokemon out of obscurity, but may make them an option worth considering once more.
  2. Sirfunchalot


    May 23, 2007
    Name: No guard? No problem!

    General Description: Anyone who has played DPPt OU knows that one of the biggest and most annoying threats you'd face-off against at the start of a match was Anti-Lead Machamp with his unique ability No Guard, an ability which allowed him to connect consistently with the powerful attack Dynamic Punch, along with never having to worry about missing Stone Edge in a critical moment, Machamp was capable of downing a huge portion of the common leads seen in that metagame. Yet if it wasn't for this ability, Machamp could never have functioned quite as well in his defining role of an Anti-Lead. It is in my earnest opinion that the ability No Guard can enable an ordinarily average pokemon to take on an extraordinary metagame changing role due to its access to powerful moves that most other pokemon cannot consistently use. Ideally CAP2 No Guard? No Problem! should have passable base stats (we aren't trying to make another sweeper) and make up for them with the ability No Guard in order to become a powerful threat in the OU tier (either an offensive or defensive threat), making up for it's short-comings with powerful and rarely used moves.

    Justification: No Guard is clearly a powerful ability, however its uses aren't exactly varied in the current metagame what with the only usable pokemon who have it being Machamp and Dream World Golurk, of which both have similar stat spreads and move-pools. No Guard is an ability that Game Freak just hasn't chosen to give enough variety to, and I think we should see what effect these new options would have on the metagame.

    1) Has a positive effect on the metagame: A pokemon with No Guard and options other than Dynamic Punch and Stone Edge could be capable of taking the predominant threats of OU down a notch (Dragonite, Ferrothorn, Gliscor, Scizor, Tyranitar, etc) through the use of typically shunned due to shaky accuracy moves. By threatening these top pokemon it can potentially further balance the metagame.

    2) Allow us to learn more about the metagame: Through the exploration of a pokemon with usable options and the No Guard ability we can learn the true impact that access to powerful yet low accuracy moves have on the metagame when their accuracy is set to 100% via the ability No Guard. Everyone knows how it feels to lose a match because they miss at an inopportune moment, but when a pokemon can truly exploit this ability to its most, just how easily will it allow its user to capitalize on reliable access to powerful moves.

    3) Introduces a new niche into the metagame: In current BW OU there is no pokemon that really does what DPPt Machamp did, which was counter a lot of the top threats that the typical player wants to start off a game with. In BW OU common leads are things like Dragonite, Rotom-W, weather starters, and less often things that stack entry hazards such as in the case of Deoxys-S. A pokemon with a solid move-pool ready to harness the power of its ability in No Guard could use distinctly unorthodox sets, similar to that of Machamp in generation IV, in order to put a lot of pressure on an opponent in the early stages of a game through the usage of these often shunned attacks.

    Questions To Be Answered: 1) Is No Guard too powerful an ability that truly should not have diverse options (think Pure/Huge Power and how they're only on pokemon with low attack stats)?

    2) Can a pokemon with diverse move options and this ability be able to more easily tame the metagame's top threats)?

    3) How important is being able to rely on a moves accuracy for a pokemon's success?

    4) Are low accuracy high power moves unfair when the chance of them missing is reduced to 0%?

    Explanation: I chose this concept because No Guard is a very versatile ability that could allow for the pokemon with it to take advantage of a lot of uncommonly used strategies. It could have consistent access to status affliction in the form of will-o-wisp, powerful attacks like Dynamic Punch, and not have a care in the world about haxy abilities like Sand Veil from ruining its parade.
  3. mrapokalyptik


    Nov 7, 2011
    Name: Trick Roomer
    General Description: A Pokemon designed to be an effective user of Trick Room.
    Justification: Trick Room is vastly underrated in today's metagame. Numerous Pokemon are able to benefit from its effects and, at the same time, while it is in effect, the vast majority of the OU tier is disabled for having such good speed. In addition, there are few commonly used Trick Room users, so a Pokemon capable of using the move viably in the higher tiers could significantly alter the metagame.
    Questions to be Answered:
    -How will the faster Pokemon deal with suddenly having to move last?
    -Which Pokemon can reap the benefits of suddenly being able to move first?
    -Is Trick Room a viable strategy in OU?
    -What types and Pokemon will see new usage?
    -How will common team structure change with the additional factor of having to refresh battle conditions?
    Explanation: Looking at the Pokemon in OU, a lot of the more commonly used Pokemon have relatively high base Speed. A Trick Room user could effectively shut down all of those Pokemon, paving the way for some of the slower, more powerful beasts of the lower tiers. An example of a Pokemon that perfectly fits the bill would be Rampardos, whose main hindrance is his horrendous Speed. In addition, slower Pokemon that already see common usage, like Reuniclus or Ferrothorn, would greatly benefit from moving first.
  4. Rising_Dusk

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 27, 2009
    Oh I'm not, I don't like it because it would not produce an exciting process and the Pokemon we'd create is something we have countless examples of already. It's the same reaction I had to "heavy offense", since it is another thing we don't get much out of as a community. I would like to do something more interesting and revealing about competitive Pokemon than "make a wall" or "make a sweeper" or things like that. They're very one-dimensional, and that is mostly what makes them so uninteresting.

    I think the best concepts so far are those that try to address something we don't understand all that well. That's in part why I really enjoy psychological warfare and fatal flaw. These things are not prevalent by any means in OU, and that is to their benefit. While it's inevitable that every CAP gets the "make a tank!" or "make a sweeper!" or "save stall!" or "super hyper uber duper offense!" concepts, they typically never get slated and always for the same reason. We just don't get much out of them as a learning process. Spend a lot of time thinking about your "Questions to be answered". If they address concepts that OU doesn't really touch on, then they're good and the concept is probably solid. Questions like "What makes a good tank?" are not good, though, as we have so many examples that we can safely and easily answer them without issue. See what I mean?
  5. capefeather

    capefeather toot
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 26, 2009
    So I basically rewrote my submission... I feel that Weather Slayer sparked a lot of creative ideas, whereas its current incarnation in Geomancer only seems to inspire puzzlement. I'm trying to figure out where I went so wrong because this can't just be the work of metagame shifts. Perhaps it was a mistake to give examples because none of the examples I gave are quite what I'm getting at with my concept submission.

    (such a depressing 1.5k)
  6. Birkal

    Birkal caw
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Oct 12, 2010
    Not to sound offensive, but perhaps the entire concept needs to be viewed through a more creative lens! There are limitations to those moves and abilities that punish ability reliance because of the current Pokemon that can utilize them. Perhaps give Entrainment or Worry Seed to a Trapper or a priority abuser. Or maybe this goal could be accomplished by placing the ability Mummy on a defensive Pokemon with a suitable means of recovery. I would rather not post specific ideas within my submission because I don't want to stifle the reader's creativity. Especially since CAP has been known to create new abilities and new moves to suit their purposes, the sky is literally the limit in terms of this concept. I hope that I have made the concept of "Ability Reliance Punisher" more tangible through this post. If you (or anyone) has any suggestions to help sharpen the focus of the concept, I am all ears =D!

    Now, I'll comment on a few of my favorite submissions so far. They are all quite good and there is a stunning amount! Quite the read.

    This was actually my original idea for a concept, and I still firmly agree with it (and you put it in better words than I ever could). To me, the weather metagame has four pillars: Sandstorm, Sunshine, Rain, and Hail. However, the fourth pillar is considerably shorter than the others. The other three have become much too powerful and unbalanced. By creating a pillar for Hail that equals the other three weather variants, perhaps we will not only have a more balanced weather metagame, but a less centralized metagame as a whole! Great stuff.

    Entry hazards play a huge part in today's metagame, no doubt. While I think we have some Entry Hazard counters in the form of Espeon, Xatu, and Tomohawk, it would be an interesting concept to continue exploring. There are a lot of great questions that we could answer with a metagame less convoluted with entry hazards.

    As previously mentioned, this is a really unique idea. Cloyster is starting to regain some popularity due to the prevalence of Substitute. Creating a CAPmon that disrupts that flow could really bring some interesting aspects to the table. My only apprehension is that Substitute is common, but not utilized on every single team. It isn't overarching or definitive of what today's metagame is. Still, it would be a great concept to explore.

    I like this concept simply because of the questions we get to ask and how that will effect our viewpoint on the metagame. By searching for Pokemon's alternatives (and whether they exist or not), we might actually discover some previously unseen alternatives! Great concept that could be lots of fun to work with.

    Very interesting idea that would lead to plenty of unique discussion. Again, I am voicing others thoughts, but this is a pretty unexplored area of competitive Pokemon that CAP could lead an expedition into. My only fear is that this concept seems high risk - high reward. If we end up achieving this goal of breaking the opponent's willpower, we will have discovered something incredible. But if we fail to find a path towards reducing an opponent's psyche, then our work might be in vain. Regardless, I am for the idea and excited for the possibilities it could procure.

    While methinks there are plenty of Pokemon that have the ability to increase their defenses, phazing remains a large issue. However, I don't think that CAP is incapable of overcoming those stumbling blocks to create something great! The first thing that came to might when I read this concept was Cosmic Power Sigilyph, which is an incredibly underrated threat. I can see this concept increasing our knowledge on offense, defense, and stat boosting.

    That's all I have time for now, but keep the concepts and comments coming! We have a plethora of ideas to work with for CAP2 and a wide range of viewpoints. Keep it up =D!
  7. col49

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 1, 2011
    Name: A Return to Offensive Spinblocking

    General Description: A pokemon that is capable of spinblocking adequately whilst still maintaining an offensive front in a fast-paced, weather oriented metagame.

    Justification: With the dawn of the 5th generation, many different aspects of the metagame changed, with the concepts of spinning, and consequently spin-blocking, being right in the foreground. Though it did indeed introduce several new interesting options within the realms of defensive spin-blockers, the world of offensive spin-blocking has taken quite the turn for the worst. The most popular spin-blocker of the last generation, Rotom-A, has now abandoned his capacity to perform such a task due to the loss of his Ghost typing, while the other frailer Ghosts have been forced to take up abusing Substitute in fear of the dangers of Pursuit trapping. This CAP would reintroduce the idea of a directly threatening spinblocker that can remain viable within the confines of such a tumultuous metagame.

    Questions to be Answered:
    •How would the concepts of strategy's like Spike Stacking Offensive change with the introduction of more threatening dual-role serving support introduced?
    •How will the concept of stall change when threatened by an anomaly to the current challenges they once faced?
    •Would teams begin to develop more in the conservative and defensive sense when faced with such a threat, or would they lean farther towards more offensive orientation?
    •Will teams start to develop with redundant teammates if faced with a big enough threat to their successfulness?

    Explanation: If you want to understand, look at the OU spinblockers back in Gen 4. Rotom-A may have been of enormous popularity as a spinblocker back then, but with the loss of their secondary Ghost typing, all but Rotom-W dropped out of the eyes of players of OU. Though the original Rotom does indeed still remain a Ghost, he resides sturdily in RU, out of the eyes of the OU-playing public. Same goes for Dusknoir, who has been generally by his now bulkier pre-evo Dusclops, whose greatest feat in an offensive sense is a Night Shade or an occasional uninvested Ice Beam. Though Gengar remains, the difference is quite noteworthy. Gengar in Gen 4 was an extremely versatile threat, with his speed and varied attacks knocking around a respectable chunk of the metagame. Even Blissey feared the possible Explosion, or even the rare Focus Punch. However, nowadays Gengar is almost totally confined to either Sub-Split or Sub-Disable, cowering in fear of Pursuit trappers. The metagame lusts for a new option to arise to renew the standing traditions.
  8. DarkSlay

    DarkSlay Guess who's back? Na na na! *breakdances*
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 12, 2009
    Hi guys, your friendly neighborhood ATL here with some remarks on concepts that have stood out to me. Just wanted to start out by saying that you guys have been doing a good job in terms of ideas, and it looks like CAP2 is already off to a promising start. Just remember to keep the back and forth one line conversations to a minimum, so that the thread is not clogged with posts. It's okay to comment on concepts, but if conversations are going to be more than one post long, please take it to PM or VM, or perhaps sum up entire opinions into one post.

    Let it Snow, Let it Snow, Let it Snow

    I agree that a study in Hail would be interesting at this period in the meta, but a lot of this concept seems to be "what if we can shift the metagame away from Rain/Sun" rather than "what if there was a Pokemon that excels in Hail". While I also agree that Hail is definitely "worse" than the other weathers, Hail actually got a decent offensive presence in Kyurem, so Hail definitely doesn't lack a presence. I think this concept overall is nice, but centers too much on making Hail the center of attention rather than the CAP, and therefore focuses too much on changing the metagame outright. That being said, it's a solid concept overall in terms of a learning experience.

    Fatal Flaw

    Really liking this idea. I think a project like this would allow us to understand quite a bit about how certain Pokemon can become balanced with team building and other individual aspects. Another interesting question to chew on that this concept might answer: How much do subtractions and additions in the standard metagame affect a Pokemon's usage? A lot of the Pokemon you mentioned, specifically Heatran and Volcarona, became standards in their respective metagames after major shifts in the Pokemon located in the tier. With Heatran, it was the elimination of Latias and Salamence in Gen IV. With Volcarona, it was Excadrill and Tornadus. This is an aspect that raises a lot of good, quality questions, and shouldn't get ignored. Good job.


    After reading the newer version of this, I have some different questions. What exactly would differentiate this from Pokemon who don't rely on weather at all to do their job? For example, Reuniclus doesn't care if it's raining, sunny, hailing, or sandstorming. It still functions well in all weathers and isn't really hindered (or powered up aside from added residual damage on opponents) from any of them. Same with Conkeldurr. Are we leaning towards a Pokemon that actually uses the weather constantly, or just a Pokemon who can survive in all weathers like Reuniclus? If it's the former, this seems like a really complicated concept, and if it's the latter, what are we learning from this concept that we can't from these already existing Pokemon?

    Hyper Offense Specialist

    This could be a really fun CAP concept to take on, and it definitely is something that relates to the metagame. However, like Geomancer's repetition issue, there's a bunch of Hyper Offensive Pokemon currently, so I find it hard to draw conclusions from this concept that we can't already find in Pokemon that are currently available. I think for this concept to be successful, we would have to make this Pokemon uniquely different than other HO Pokemon without deviating from the concept. Even if we do that, however, we still might have some overlap in what we can already learn.

    Leading the Barrier

    Perhaps it's just me, but it seems like this concept is tackling a bit too much all at once. You want to get a stable lead in the metagame who can tackle hyper offensive threats that can be switched into the lead position at any time while also making defensive teams more viable. I think this concept needs to narrow itself down a bit more, or else the direction of this concept might go wayward very, very fast.

    Eater of Subs

    Unique, matches with the wanted direction of a CAP2 concept, and has a distinct use in the metagame. The tools do seem to be somewhat limited, but I think there's enough room to make this CAP process interesting with this concept. I like this concept.

    Psychological Warfare

    Phew, what a bold concept. My biggest fear with this concept is that it is somewhat vague in how to approach going about this, which resembles the issues that Momentum had in the previous CAP. This concept can be achieved in a lot of ways, but also has little room for error. I think it's the type of concept that will really challenge us, making it extremely solid, but we must take care that the direction of this concept doesn't become obscure.

    Sketch Artist

    I like this concept a lot as well. I think it will take some good care to make sure that everyone won't choose a particular move over and over, since moves like Spore and Shell Smash are often "too good" on just about any Pokemon. However, if the concept actually does what it wants to accomplish, we can learn a whole lot about move coverage, and how being able to have a certain move affects what can and can't handle a Pokemon. It's also a great concept for discussions.

    Hazard Abuser, Not a Hazard User

    I find it hard pressed to find a Pokemon who can't abuse hazards in one way or another. Most offensive Pokemon already use hazards to chip off enough damage for KO's, scout already use them, and defense minded teams use them to either stall or phaze. What more can we learn from this concept outside of these things? I feel like this concept is always happening anyway, which makes for a concept that is hard to take anything useful away from.

    Keep it up CAP! Good job to everyone!
  9. Paradox


    Mar 1, 2010
    I see what you mean, and I guess some of it may have to do with the phrasing of the concept. I don't see the CAP made for this concept being "another wall" but rather something that could maybe deal with stuff like Reuniclus, Volt-Turn cores, and some of the other things that are around to really hurt stall (for CAP 1 I pictured an offensive Ghost that could beat Reuniclus and Excadrill spinners easily, as those were the biggest threats to stall at the time). I agree that as it is now the concept doesn't really have enough direction beyond "make a really good wall" so I guess Raikaria could consider the above for constructive criticism. Something like more examples of what exactly is putting a hurt on stall could help.

    The thing is that all of these plans are just going really far out of their way to do something that won't actually help them that much. It's not going to be much use trapping Azumarril and using Skill Swap on it when it'll be hitting you with powerful Aqua Jets on the switch-in and as you use your attack. And if you're trapping something with an ability you may as well just kill it, I don't see the point of removing its ability in that situation. Priority Worry Seed, etc isn't a terrible idea, but we just had a Prankster CAP and it's pretty limiting, and even then I don't see that being very effective. Finally Mummy is just much too situational, it has no effect on special attacks and doesn't even effect a large number of physical ones (like EQ), otherwise Cofagrigus would used much more often (btw that is a defensive pokemon with a suitable means of recovery). Call me "uncreative" if you want, but these are the aspects of concepts that need to be addressed in this stage if they are to make the slate.
  10. marilli

    marilli two, but one.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 26, 2010
    Name: Typical Game Freak

    General Description: A Pokemon with all the wrong attributes in the wrong places, but still manages to be effective in OU.

    Justification: Many CAPs have been widely criticized for their extreme effectiveness and a goal-based build. I feel that this might be a great way to learn about the metagame. Many questions stem directly from this concept: What makes a Pokemon NU-worthy? What makes it OU worthy? What makes a Pokemon great despite the trolling it has to suffer? Would it ever be possible for a Pokemon with thoroughly unimpressive 70 Base Speed to be viable as an OU Sweeper without help of trick room? Does an idiotic ability completely damn a Pokemon into the depths of NU or make it still viable in OU (like Slaking in Adv and in later gens)? Or does a great ability make up for trollish combination of typing and stats (like Reuniclus)? Talking about Slaking, we see it perfectly viable in Adv and quickly degenerate into a weakling. As we add more CAPmons and change the metagame that it was so carefully balanced on, would it fall into a complete disuse? I think all those are interesting questions to look into.

    Questions to be Answered;
    •What makes a Pokemon effective?
    •How does a Pokemon compensate for its poor stats? Poor typing? Poor ability?
    •How does a good ability, movepool, typing, etc. compensate for bad attributes?
    •What attributes are so horrendous that no amount of balancing act can make it viable?
    •If we add more CAPs, would this mon cease to be effective?

    Explanation: Maybe Gamefreak doesn't think that we're smart enough to notice the trend, but they always release an uncomfortable number of Pokemons who might look good at first glance but actually suck. Maybe we think these suck at first glance for those very reasons but are actually good. When BW got first released, I’m pretty sure there were many people who wouldn’t have believed if I told them that Conkeldurr, Reuniclus, or Haxorus would be OU.

    I know, this is a really really vague and subjective description. I'm talking about maybe Pokemons with very high BST but with all of them in the wrong places, or incredible main stat that is completely let down by its remaining stat distributions—things like Entei or Rampardos. Those are left in the depths of RU and no one gives a second look at them. Or, it could be the wrong typing to fulfill its job, like those Rock/Steel types or Rock/Bug types with tankish stats--they're also left in depths of RU. Or, we have examples of trolly speed like Haxorus and Hydreigon who share these 'typical game freak' characteristics but still somehow succeed in the OU metagame. Remember Haxorus had borderline-UU usage until a certain individual found that it's pretty darn effective despite its shortcomings. I think it would be really interesting to see what extent would we need balance the weakness that it’s viable but still not broken. Haxorus is really the ‘ideal’ but simplified model of this CAPmon, I guess. But spamming Dragon-type moves isn’t exactly an elegant way to balance things. It might be more interesting if it didn’t have something to fall back to, like Haxorus with its otherwise overpowered Outrage, to make this balancing act more of a learning experience.

    I think if this idea were to actually go to work, then it’ll need to focus on a single aspect of Game Freak trolling, and see if we can balance everything out. IDK, it’s not exactly polished, but I definitely believe something can come out of this.
  11. Spenstar


    May 6, 2010
    Name: The Sun Will Shine
    General Description: A Pokemon who can set up the sun reliably or use it effectively. Preferably both.
    Justification: The Gen V Metagame is defined by a two-pronged "weather war" between Sand and Rain, Drizzle and Sandstream, Politoed and T-tar. Ninetales and Drought, have been left out as the underdog of the weather war. It has an effect parallel to Rain and can be very effective, but it suffers from disadvantages, namely a mediocre weather starter and strictly offensive abusers.
    Questions To Be Answered:
    • Will this Pokemon be able to successfully make sun a contender in the weather wars?
    • How will the metagame be different with three competing weathers, as opposed to two?
    • Could Sun really be put on the same level as sand and rain, or is it inferior by its very nature?
    • What will be better for sun: an effective sun set-up Pokemon, or an effective sun abuser?

    Explanation: A lot of concepts throughout CAP were suggested for aiding Hail, but I think Hail is simply not a good weather. It hinders every type except one, the worst defensive type in the game with the worst showing in OU. It also makes a single competitive move better. That's all. Sun has its own following of sweepers that are amazing in the sun. They are simply cast aside because Ninetails isn't a good drought user. A good direction I'd like to see this CAP going is for it to potentially take Ninetails' place as a sun set-up mon who can function within it, and also be able to do something else if you want Ninetails for whatever reason. Unlike Hail, sun doesn't need a miracle abuser. It simply needs a push in the right direction, and CAP2 will ideally be that push.
  12. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize and Blue Badge Set 2014-2017
    is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 11, 2010
    I'm reusing my concept from last CAP, as I think it's even more relevant to this CAP, especially with Dusk's new ideas.

    Name: Second Chance

    General Description: A pokemon that can, reduce or negate the effect of a misplay by the user.

    Justification: You forgot the opponent had Terrakion and got swept at the last minute. Your only pokemon faster than your opponent's Gliscor was killed by a poor prediction so 'Scor outlasted you. We've all been there. This Pokemon would serve as "insurance" for a mistake made by the user. It's a fitting concept because it effectively fills all three of the Justification questions. It has a positive effect on the metagame by making it easier to get into. The current metagame is very offensive and is centered around ridiculously powered (though not broken) pokemon like Terrakion or Volcarona setting up and sweeping. However, in the new metagame, one poor play can cost you the game. If you predict a Swords Dance by your foe's Terrakion and it Close Combats your Ferrothorn, it could end up costing you the match. If you had a way to make up for your mistake, it could even out the score and not make one turn the deciding factor in a game. It allows us to learn more about the metagame by seeing that if Bulky set-up pokemon and other do-or-die pokemon are weakened, what new threats will pop up? If wins are harder to come by, what new faces will gain popularity? It somewhat introduces a new niche by reshaping the metagame around new threats, but it shakily at best answers this question. It still tackles the first two, though!

    Questions to be answered:

    1. Since players who use this pokemon can afford to play more liberally, what new playstyles will emerge?
    2. Since making a mistake in playing can cause a myriad of problems, can one pokemon theoretically handle all of them without breaking the metagame?
    3. How can one pokemon neuter the opponent's momentum without building too much offensive momentum for themselves (as making a mistake should never result in a favorable situation for the user)?
    4. What threats are most important to check when building this pokemon?
    5. What playstyles are most effective for the user when this pokemon is covering common threats?
    6. How will opponents react to this pokemon when they see it in Team Preview?

    Explanation: In an offensive metagame, players can often feel in a "do-or-die" situation especially with the advent of Team Preview. The entire game is about gaining momentum with offensive juggernauts like Haxorus, Landorus, and Volcarona while trying to counter your opponent's with Gliscor or Ferrothorn, both of which cannot last forever. Latios is often used as a means to rip holes in the opponent's pokemon, with a deadly Draco Meteor and HP Fire to round out coverage against Ferrothorn. Obviously, there is no room for error when dealing with these monsters, as they can reach nearly four digit (Special) Attack and sometimes even 500 speed in only one turn. If you screw up, you have to sacrifice one pokemon for a switch in, then another to take it out. And losing one third of your team is a little costly for making one error. This pokemon would attempt to nullify the effect of the mistake and give the user another chance at victory. If I can post the "illegal" stuff here, I would think of a pokemon with high defenses, as it would need to come in on these super-threats and force them out without being broken. By this, I think a very high stat spread but not a great movepool would be in order, though that's up to the community if this concept is lucky enough to be chosen.
  13. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck actual cannibal
    is a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    May 25, 2010
    Eh, well the idea was to make the "ideal" hazard abuser without making it broken. If we look at Doug's Perfect Mate concept, Arceus can be said to pair very well with any Pokemon in the meta because Arceus is.. well... Arceus. The point is to limit the extent of that to make it as good at fitting its role as possible without being the best sweeper possible. It's supposed to both rely on and be made viable by hazards, and the idea is that if we make a Pokemon that can abuse hazards to their fullest extent, we'll be able to explore how much hazards can affect the metagame.

    EDIT @Lolcat: this seems like it's awfully close to a "Utility Counter" what with its use as a safety net for myriad situations. I could see a Pokemon with a large number of resistances that is conducive to Scarfing? That would limit its power in sweeping while still enable it to check important threats.
  14. cartercr


    Jan 8, 2010
    Just posting to say that I changed my concept completely. (On page 2)
  15. mewtwo15026


    Nov 4, 2009
    Somebody apparently stol--er, ninja'd my Ability Remover idea, and somebody else argued its viability.

    Remember, CAP isn't against creating new abilities. Syclant got Mountaineer for easy switching, Fidgit runs Persistent or whatever for support purposes, and Hipster Colossoil was returning status to sender before Magic Bounce was a thing. There's also Paleo Wave and ShadowStrike, two created moves. I'm sure we could come up with some sort of ability or move that could effectively neuter crucial abilities.

    That said, I don't want to steal someone else's thunder, so I'll post a different -- yet vastly inferior -- idea of my own.


    General Description: Scald. Hurricane. Dynamicpunch. Every Jirachi set known to mankind. Finally, the dreaded critical hit. Sheer luck can stop a stall or a sweep, open up a hole in an otherwise sturdy team, or make certain Pokemon nearly unmanageable, and no existing Pokemon can call itself safe from it. This Pokemon would either reliably reduce or eliminate the chance of luck-based effects or counter its main abusers (Machamp, Jirachi, Togekiss, etc.).

    Questions to be answered:

    How important is the role of luck in a battle?
    Just how powerful, how effective are luck abusers?
    Can luck abusers excel without their main strategy?
    How does the absence of luck change how battles play out?


    Apart from Jirachi users, nobody likes hax. Be it through Serene Grace effecthax, Dynamicpunch confusehax, Sand Veil misshax, or anything similar, nothing that abuses luck has a surefire counter. Even worse is a critical hit that takes out the central member of a team or a 95% accuracy move that misses when it could have downed a boosted sweeper. While there may not be a way to completely eliminate dumb luck, there are definitely ways to lighten its influence -- be it through an ability, an attack, or just the removal of abusers -- and many Trainers would be glad to see it gone.

    EDIT: Now that I've read DetroitLolcat's "Second Chance" idea, I believe that something along those lines would suit this concept well: something that can shake off a crit hit or a burn and continue on relatively unhindered.
  16. Alex22


    Sep 18, 2010
    Name: Last Man Standing
    General Description: Even with team preview, the concept of a lead is pretty secure. But what about that all-important last Pokemon left on your team? Or just late-game Pokemon in general?
    Justification: With the hyper offense that has taken the metagame by storm, often a game comes down to just one member of the team; the last one left. Before Excadrill was banned, I would often have only him left, while my opponent would have 3 or 4 left on their team, yet Excadrill would grab the win anyway. What makes certain Pokemon so devastating in the last few turns of a battle?
    Questions To Be Answered:
    - Would this Pokemon be more wallish, to stabilize late-game and secure a win, or more offensively inclined, made to give your opponent the final punch?
    - How effective would this Pokemon be outside of late game battle?
    - What specific attributes make a Pokemon effective late in the match?

    Explanation: Please note that this concept applies to all late-game, not just when the Pokemon is the last one standing.
    I think this concept would hit especially close to home for players who are frustrated that their carefully planned and executed strategies are being destroyed in the last few turns. Although the banning of Thundurus and Excadrill has somewhat rectified this, B/W is still a metagame where strategies can easily be ripped apart late-game through sheer opposing force. So, how would the “Last Man Standing” Pokemon help secure the win for your team?
  17. maynez


    Jul 28, 2011
    Top Spin!

    Name: Top Spin!
    General Description: The most reliable spinner around.
    Justification: All ghost-types serve as spinblockers, making teams with entry hazzards/ghost-types really annoy the opposite team, even with Rapid Spin.
    Questions To Be Answered:

    Will this strategy mess with other spinblockers?
    Will this pokemon outclass other spinblockers?
    What if the Top Spin! pokemon is weak to entry hazzards?
    Scrappy+Rapid spin vs Levitate+Rapid spin?

    Explanation: Entry hazzards are great: Toxic Spikes gives damage every turn to non-Steel/Flying/Poison and non-Levitate pokemon and come in sinergy with moves like Venoshock, Spikes get several layers and hits all non-flying, non Levitate pokemon, and Stealth Rock just cripples pokemon like Charizard. Also, these hazzards make some items and abilities useless, like Sturdy, Multiscale and Focus Sash. Also strategies that involves phazing with Dragon Tail or Roar need entry hazzards, and get really annoying. So, thats why Rapid Spin is needes... but hey!! ghost-types are actually immune to it!!

    A pokemon that has de ability Scrappy, and the move Rapid spin? This can remove hazzards effectively, without being blocked by ghosts. Maybe this pokemon has some hazzards of its own and its ghost-type, or maybe his type makes it immune or resistant to hazzards.

    Maybe this strategy doesn't change the metagame, but its a really reliable and simple strategy that can be used along with any other strategy posted around here, just serving a pokemon that preferable is bulky enough to take on hazzards and take them off your team. It just need Rapid Spin as a move, and the ability Scrappy.

    (Side notes: maybe we can add the Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and/or Stealth Rock in its movepool, and maybe some other utility/annoying Normal-type moves like Fake out, Roar, etc. I know)
  18. ryik7


    Dec 25, 2010

    I like sketch artist.

    Note: if this pokemon got a single sketch, it SHOULD be able to fulfill it's role and the sketch artist's role, but that's a separate submission, so... whatever...

    Concept: ...What?

    Description: A Pokemon with access to a befuddling arsenal that makes for extreme unpredictability along with the ability to totally flip the match upside down. (Think shedinja with conversion)

    Justification- Let's face it. Most of pokemon is set in stone. Blissey can't take physical hits, Scizor carries bullet punch, and Jellicent likely has means to burn you. This pokemon would allow one to throw the opponents off of their game. By rewriting the rules with it's movepool (and/or ability, etc.), it can cause players to have to find new ways to pull off what they are trying to do and to stop having to use orthodox methods of battling all the time. Concern of broken-ness is ever present, but this pokemon wouldn't be broken as it (probably) shouldn't be able to take advantage of the opponent being flipped upside down, and probably shouldn't be able to do much once it has, instead serving as a utility/support most of the time, albeit far less orthodox, so much so that utility/support may not be a proper term.

    Questions that can be answered:

    Do opponents need to have control over things to carry out their plans?
    If battles were more unpredictable, would that lead to a decline of some pokemon?
    An increase?
    Would there be pokemon unaffected by this pokemon's flip-flop nature?
    How much more risks would the opponent take?
    Would it instigate more of the unexpected like physical Reinaclus? (Or more moderately, mixed attackers)

    Explanation: In generation 5, pokemon got specific. Just about all Espeon have magic mirror and really, one has the gist of a pokemon just by seeing it. This pokemon aims to make the opponent say 'what?' And make them wish mind reader did more than ignore accuracy. This pokemon aims to transcend the barrier of physical/special walling and make it's counters different simply after (for instance) using it's moves, on top of making the opponent take more risks.

    note: CAP1 ''wouldn't need u-turn'', and this shouldn't NEED magic, trick, or wonder room.
  19. Smith

    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Nov 23, 2009
    I may edit in a submission later but I'm procrastinating on homework right now, I can only bring myself to type things up when I run into actual free time. All I'd like to say is that, while Psychological Warfare is by far the most interesting, most revealing, and the most inclined to produce a "successful" CAP, I would reaaaallly hate to see it implemented for really practical, self-serving reasons. If I'm going to playtest this thing, it's just going to make me angry when I'm playing against it and make my opponent's angry, and thus make me feel like a dick. It has the sole purpose of making a metagame that is NOT FUN. It's a really cool idea, but can we NOT go there?
  20. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego I'm the Yellow Fellow
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    GP Co-Leader

    May 29, 2011
    Name: The Set-Up Stopper/ Stat Reverser
    General Description: A Pokemon that can always beat opponents that use setup moves to sweep or stall.
    Justification: Whether you use a team powered by heavy hitters or tank-like walls, you will at some point find yourself in the possession of a Set-Up Pokemon. Anyone who has used these knows that after only a few turns, entire teams can be easily destroyed. While specific counters for specific boosting Pokemon exist, (think Scarf Terrakion to Volcarona or a Skarmory to a DD Dragonite) there are always ways, however unorthodox, to beat them. This Pokemon could serve as a means to beat every boosting Pokemon, defensive or offensive, and remove those threats from the field.
    Questions To Be Answered:

    • What are the most common boosted stats?
    • What is the best way to beat a Set-Up Pokemon?
    • Can stat boosters be beaten only by a Pokemon with unaware?
    • Could both offensive and defensive stat boosters be beaten by a single Pokemon?
    Explanation: Quagsire is a good example of a general setup check. However, as everyone knows, he is hindered by poor stats and a crippling weakness. A true setup counter would need high defenses to be able to take attacks from boosting sweepers like Virizion or Landorus, as well as enough muscle to beat defensive boosters like Conkeldurr. I think an interesting way to explore this is a Pokemon that can reverse stat changes - not so different to Serperior, but this time to the opponent. This would literally turn the opponent's strength against them, and I think would add an interesting style of prediction and teambuilding to the metagame. If this were not possible, I believe that a Pokemon that could make excellent use of the ability Unaware would make quite an impact and balance the power of the all-destroying setup sweepers.
  21. I'll give this a go...

    Name: NU Savior

    General Description: There are some Pokemon that have something really competitively unique about them and yet are still doomed to RU or NU for unrelated reasons. To one such helpless Pokemon (or maybe a small group), this new Pokemon will be its savior, adding something new to the game that gives the once helpless Pokemon the chance to thrive.

    Justification: Pokemon is full of interesting possible strategies that would normally be impossible to pull off in a competitive environment, and there are many Pokemon that could thrive if only their niche strategy could somehow find some sort of opening. In the beginning of this generation, for example, we saw many Pokemon with Swift Swim getting used quite a lot, Pokemon that normally wouldn't see much use at all, Pokemon that were saved by Politoed and its Drizzle ability. Basically, this new Pokemon would set out to do something similar, introducing something new to the meta-game that would enable a existing competitively questionable Pokemon or strategy to finally shine.

    Questions To Be Answered:
    Which existing RU or NU Pokemon (and their associated niche strategies) could be saved by having a good partner?
    If made competitively viable, then in what way if at all could these Pokemon and their strategies then turn around and support or complement Pokemon and strategies that are already competitively viable?
    What exactly is missing from such Pokemon and/or the strategies that they employ that could make them great?
    In what ways could one Pokemon make another Pokemon competitively viable?
    How would having two new Pokemon (this new one and its existing target teammate) using a newly viable strategy affect the meta-game?

    Explanation: I didn't think that this would be so hard to explain until I actually started typing it out, and now I'm worried that it's just too vague. There are a lot of ways that this concept could be accomplished. Let's look Pokemon that aren't very great but have sort of a unique niche or strategy.

    For example, Harvest is a really unique and competitively interesting ability, but strategies around it just wouldn't be viable, so what if we had a Pokemon that could somehow pull Exeggutor and Tropius out of NU by adding something new to the game that would make Harvest awesome?

    Another example could be Solar Power. Again, no competitive team would make use of the ability, but what if there were something to make that ability more awesome that could bring Charizard, Sunflora, or Tropius into standard play? (I promise it's only a coincidence that Tropius ended up getting used in two examples) Maybe a Pokemon that could bestow a Magic-Guard-like effect to its teammates to prevent the damage taken from the ability could be a good start.*

    Of course, there would be a lot of challenges with this idea. The main one that sticks out to me is how to make sure that this Pokemon helps only the intended targets and doesn't simply make better Pokemon that were already good. My last example discussing a Magic-Guard-like effect, for instance, probably wouldn't help Solar Power Pokemon nearly as much as it would help Life Orb holders that are more competitively viable to begin with.

    My last two examples centered on weaker Pokemon that share a specific ability, but as I suppose this concept initially implied, we could instead focus on a singular unique Pokemon. Imagine a teammate that makes Shuckle or Shedinja or Ursaring into an absolute terror.

    As for what this new Pokemon itself would do? Well, that depends on what we would like to explore more. Would we like to explore such a Pokemon that is competitively viable on its own or just happen to be great by virtue of being a great enabler to its target? Would we like for it to participate in the strategy that it enables or just do its own thing after enabling it? A lot of these questions are going to depend on exactly how this Pokemon is accomplishing its enabling, so there's no telling until a more specific target is determined.

    * NOTE: To avoid confusion, although this example uses a game mechanic that does not actually exist, I do not mean to imply that making up new game mechanics is the only way to accomplish the goal of this new Pokemon. Just as Politoed did what it did using game mechanics that already existed before this new generation (Drizzle), so should this new Pokemon preferably be restricted to existing game mechanics. The made-up mechanic was just a quick and easy way of not only better illustrating that example but also illustrating how this Pokemon can go wrong if done incorrectly, as is subsequently discussed.
  22. gbjackalope


    Sep 27, 2010
    Ability makes the Typing

    Name: Ability makes the typing

    General Description: A pokemon whose ability is used to benefit itself due to it's typing in order to gain a niche spot in the OU metagame.

    Justification: When making a good team, it is beneficial to have a variety of pokemon that have different typings that work well together with synergy. A pokemon with a very unique typing will often be played in OU just for its typing. A good typing can have good offensive stab or can have good resistances to check other pokemon. A few examples of pokemon that rely on their typings are magnezone, ferrothorn, jellicent, and rotom-w. This pokemon will not only have a good typing, but will have an ability to improve the typing even more.

    Questions To Be Answered:
    How does the role of typing play in the OU metagame?
    Does a pokemon need to have a good typing to be successful?
    How will a pokemon with an ability that improves typing be used on a team?
    Which ability and typing combination can be used to the most success?
    What strategy would be used on a pokemon like this? Would Offensive stats or defensive stats be preferred?

    Explanation: The purpose of this pokemon is not to create the pokemon with the most perfect typing, but to make a pokemon with a typing such that it will be used by a large amount of people. The pokemon could possibly have a typing that gives it resistances to many of the top threats in OU in order to check them. The pokemon could also have typing to give it the offensive stab to become the next big threat in OU.
    Fortunately, there are many options for this pokemon. Some possible typings can include a steel/bug with flashfire, a water/ground with sap sipper, a water /flying with lightning rod, a poison/steel with levitate, and a normal/ghost with normalize.
  23. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Apr 18, 2008
    CAP has been moving away from custom abilities/moves. They are discouraged heavily by the veteran players as it does little in learning the game in its purest form. So, in other words, it is against creating new stuff like this.

    I haven't been able to read all submssions yet, but to the new people, be sure to observe the OP and submission guidelines. Also, take a look at previous Concept Submission threads for tips on good questions and justifications (some are rather barebones that can be asked for any concept).

    DetroitLolcat's is one of the concepts I liked from the last project. Though the game is more stable than before, it can still be viable to look into.

    Wow, Sketch. Would have never thought of something like that. It is a gamble as R_D said, but it sounds like a lot of fun. We'll need a strong assessment of it if it goes through. Another good one, Korski.

    As of right now, I'm pulling for bugmainacbob's Psychological Warfare. A player's state of mind and their general psychological methods when playing are not explored enough. This ranges from good prediction to plain intimidation. This concept can possibly allow CAP to study about us, the players themselves when we partake in this game (haha, hope that didn't sound too bad).
  24. Rising_Dusk

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 27, 2009
    This isn't the place or time to even be thinking about custom abilities or moves, but so long as we're using PO as our simulator, it is impossible (re: physically unfeasible) to make custom abilities and moves. For that reason, in CAP2 I am soft-banning them. Down the road, if we end up with a different simulator, we will likely revisit the idea with a related PR thread.
  25. Bork


    Oct 22, 2011
    Name: Inconsistencies Present

    General Description: A pokemon that has a risk factor in its use, but can still function in the metagame due to its vast advantages.

    Justification: In the metagame today, consistency is a main factor in considering ones options. While I wanted to avoid the cliche "high risk, high reward" in this proposal, it was inevitable at some point. This pokemon would try to help us find a definitive answer to the great argument present in both pokemon and other sports and games between sure things and more risky investments. (Using Surf or Hydro Pump in Pokemon, using a bruising back or a scat back in football, betting on a flush or straight or folding in poker). But this does not just concern accuracy, but also other risky investments (see Explanation for examples)

    Questions To Be Answered:
    What is the actual answer to the power/accuracy argument?
    Is it worthwhile to use a pokemon that could end up being completely useless half the time, if it can dominate the other half?
    Is inconsistency really a crippling blow to delegate a pokemon to the lower tiers.

    As promised earlier, accuracy is not the only thing this pokemon is about. For example, Yanmega in late DPP is similar (though probably not as successful) to my proposal. Specifically the Tinted Lens could wreck havoc on teams though one slip up could make it worthless. While CAP2 would probably be more consistent than Yanmega, it would have a similar effect in a successful situation-completely devastate teams. But unlike other devastating threats, there would be a good chance it ended up contributing nothing to a victory, or contributing heavily to a loss. The key to this concept is balancing this duality. To quote the op:
    A high risk pokemon isn't an effect on the metagame, its a basic model for the pokemon. I feel this concept is separated enough from the idea of the metagame and gets back to the basics.

    Now I feel you are likely still focused on the accuracy/power issue, as that's the most obvious application. Here are a list of possible routes this pokemon could go.
    Frail but ground breaking sweeper. E.g. Lucario
    Sweeper that requires a specific situation to be effective, but dominates. E.g. Yanmega
    Pokemon that can abuse ceartain enemy pokemon for ground breaking effects
    On this third one, I feel I should elaborate. I'm thinking of a Charge Beam Magnezone type pokemon. It can aome in on a Ferrothorn or Skarmory, set up a couple boosts, and proceed to sweep, but it lacks the opportunity to get those boosts in a normal environment.

    All in all, I feel this concept could give us insight into the inner workings of pokemon and the preference of consistency over risk in the current metagame.

    Completely Seperate from my submission-I don't think the "learns sketch once" idea would be feasible, ingame... I think that in game, you could conceivable sketch a move and then return to the move relearner and get sketch again... This is the only way I can think that Smeargle could run Level 1 sets with a full array of 4 moves, despite only technically learning Sketch once at Lv. 1. This would make a Sketch pokemon essentially Smeargle on steroids...
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