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CAP 14 CAP 3 - Playtest (Conclusion in Post #61!)

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by Deck Knight, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. nyttyn

    nyttyn Ribbit!
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    Yes. BUT!

    What are sets without gimmicky peices of shit!? Seriously though I should of added that it was a sarcastic post intended to show the traps that are possible to fall into while making mollux due to his 4MSS and the amazing load of options available to him. Basically, that set is THE example of "What Not To Do With Mollux."
  2. srk1214

    srk1214 You spin my head right round
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    I should have guessed as much...

    Anyways, what have people been running as their reliable ways to deal with Mollux?

    I've been using an odd team on which every single Pokemon might be capable of helping beat out various sets. But generally the main threat is Tyranitar, really. Get Rocks up and Pursuit Mollux on the switch out and it takes Pretty hefty damage. The general weaken strategy has been working for me much more than the SLAP HP GROUND on EVERYTHING!!11!1!!!1!1 strat I've seen some adopt. Also, my fears about Dugtrio haven't been realized, thankfully. It remains mediocre under most circumstances.
  3. nyttyn

    nyttyn Ribbit!
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    Tyranitar is basically the number one Mollux counter. Can pursuit it out if it runs out, earthquake it, etc etc. People seem to have forgotten about how much of a counter public enemy number 1 Heatran is.
  4. Hobbes2

    Hobbes2

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    In my opinion this playtest isn't really showing anything about Mollux's impact on the OU Meta because EVERY SINGLE TEAM IS USING IT.

    The meta being shown is a Mollux-centralized one, which is pretty much like saying "We just introduced Starmie, so here have a playtest" and every single person uses Starmie.

    To answer the "ways to deal with Mollux" question i'd say the best way is T-Tar as it comes in on the attacks (though the toxic spikes and WoW hurt it) and it can hit back on Mollux's weaker defense side. Dugtrio is great as a revenge killer unless its the scarfed mollux variant.
  5. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
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    My favorite Pokemon to use in this playtest so far has been Calm Mind Reuniclus, who laughs at Mollux in the Rain and can beat up pretty well on the stall-heavy metagame I've seen develop. Since this metagame has gotten so focused on coverage moves and not on power, Reuniclus can prey on the weaker Pokemon that are flourishing. Plus, he can Calm Mind against Mollux in the Sand or Rain as long as he's not facing an Eruption or something like that. Defesnive Tyranitar can't break the Psychic, and Magic Guard is a godsend in a metagame where Stealth Rock is even more potent. Furthermore, Scizor, arguably Reuniclus's #2 check besides Tyranitar, is nowhere to be seen in the playtest.

    And +1 Reuniclus has 424/273/309 defenses (not to mention over 400 Special Attack), which some people on the ladder seem to be forgetting ;). Reuniclus is definitely loving this metagame!
  6. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight October Surprise
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    Here's a set I've bee tinkering around with:

    [​IMG]
    Mollux @ Life Orb
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 128 SAtk / 228 Spd / 152 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Acid Spray
    - Thunder
    - Flamethrower
    - Recover

    It results in 369 HP / x Atk / 202 Def / 363 SpA / 246 SpD / 245 Spe.

    It's set to be one speed point above 72 Spe Gliscor sets. The idea is to have Rain set up with SR, and use Acid Spray to weaken a switchin. Mollux takes LO damage which is then nullified by Rain, and finishes with Thunder or Flamethrower. Recover allows it to come in on a free switch and get back to full HP, or avoid LO death in non-rain weather. It's a kind of hybrid Bulk/Speed set that has slightly more SpA than a Timid set. In general I've found it hits a sweet spot between bulk, speed, and power and is quite versatile without doing too much at once.

    That said I haven't had a ton of time to test it out on multiple opponents, but it's been pretty solid for me.

    Had a squeaker with Pwnemon and the team this is on. It should give a good glimpse into what the metagame is like.

    http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-capmolluxplaytest7737
  7. srk1214

    srk1214 You spin my head right round
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    So the team I've been using started off 3-3, but after making a few changes it has since gone 12-1, with 4 of those wins being 6-0s. I figured this may be due to getting lucky with who I played on the playtest ladder, but I still found that 12-1 record since my few minor changes quite telling.

    However, I'm getting a bit bored of the team I'm using and think I'm going to move on and try a sun team when I'm free to be on the ladder next again.

    So I'm posting it here if anyone wants to take a look at it:

    Show Hide
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Perish Song
    - Protect
    - Focus Blast

    Mollux @ Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 4 SDef / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Protect
    - Acid Spray
    - Thunderbolt
    - Fire Blast

    Breloom @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 236 HP / 212 SDef / 60 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Spore
    - Bulk Up
    - Seed Bomb
    - Drain Punch

    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    Landorus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Substitute
    - Earthquake
    - Smack Down
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 92 SDef / 80 Def / 252 HP / 84 Atk
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 2 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]


    The dual weather team, despite looking odd at first, really has been giving a great amount of control in dealing with opposing teams designed entirely around one single weather. There are a few changes I'd consider still to this team, but I'm not a tinkerer by nature.

    Without a doubt though, what this playtest has taught me is how amazing Protect is on Mollux. I'd go so far as to say it is better than Recover.

    Feel free to ask any questions if you'd like, but really I'm just putting this team out there.
  8. uwnim

    uwnim

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    Protect was so annoying. Mollux wouldn't die.
  9. ShyGuy1221

    ShyGuy1221

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    Nearly every time I face Mollux, my opponent switches in on my Mienshao and is then immediately taken out by Stone Edge. Unless Mollux has health investment, it will be always be OHKO'd without hazards. With 252HP EVs it will sometimes survive (89.8%-106.1%) and unless it also has a Def boosting nature and has Def EVs (which I doubt anyone would run) it will always die with rocks up.
  10. nyttyn

    nyttyn Ribbit!
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    I would like to note that Mollux almost completely outclasses Tentacruel. While Tenta doesn't have a pesky quad wekaness to eq and a weakness to fire, Mollux completely outdoes it in every other aspect. Access to recovery, a better version of rain dish (if you keep rain up), a better movepool, all these mean that Tentacruel is kind of sadly outclassed by our favorite toxic snail.

    On a more positive note, Mollux works extremely well on trick room teams. Thanks to its tankiness, high as heck spatk, and low base speed, it just works so well. It doesn't work well on Gravity teams, as it has only Inferno to abuse. It is also a rather poor recipient of a short baton pass chain, but a extremely strong recpient of a long one, due to its excellent BST, high coverage, and resistances up the wazoo.
  11. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
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    That's so true! The team I'm using for the playtest is a pretty standard balance team just with Mollux over Tentacruel!


    Also, and I hope this goes without saying, do not use Toxic Spikes during this playtest. On anything, ever. Including Mollux_x.
  12. phoenixwright7

    phoenixwright7

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    Is there any point of running a choice specs on Mollux?

    I've been running a 252 HP/252 Special attack specs Mollux in the rain and I don't think it's done to bad, though I'm wondering if the extra power from specs really doing anything for me. I'm also beginning to wonder if Eruption is worth it. There's been a few battles were Mollux's done nothing <_<

    Also, Specially defensive Dragonite's been a beast for me!
  13. omnicloud7strife

    omnicloud7strife

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    Right. I've had a whopping small number of posts here. I'm Omni on the simulators, so most of you know me as someone that's between meh and bad. And, I'm pretty sure that I'm awful.

    But none of that's important right now. Well. Not very, anyway.

    My Mollux is designed to be... irritating. Like, really, really irritating. It's got some flaws, and needs some support.

    But. Here it is. (EVs subject to frequent and regular change, cause I don't know quite how to be good. :x)
    Show Hide

    Mollux @ Leftovers/Black Sludge
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Defense / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
    - Substitute
    - Aqua Ring
    - Fire Spin

    Okay. I know what you're thinking. "Omni's awful. This set is probably awful." And, I'm not done running around trying to see if I can make it work better.

    What I can tell you is that, if you set this guy up right (preferable in the Rain), and they're out of Heatrans, (Fires or Steels, depending on WoW/Toxic, respectively), you can switch into something that you resist, sub, Aqua Ring, and status. Maybe not always in that order. Sometimes, you go Fire Spin, then Sub. Whatever. The point is to get them trapped, put up a damage status, and let things happen.

    Now, obviously, this needs support like nobody's business. If you run WoW, you want TSpike Support (to cover fire Pokemon). If you run Toxic, however, you're gonna want someone with Scald at the least. You'll need someone to soak up Choice Scarf Landorus, who's a nasty bugger and will just eat you alive, so you'll want a flying type. Skarm is great here, for Spikes or SR, allowing you to set up more damage when people switch, which is great.

    You'll probably want a Spinner. Forry works great, covering any hazards that Skarm doesn't, running Gyro Ball or VSwitch (depending), and spin, plus another (possibly TSpikes, possibly something else).

    Politode is a great option for permarain, so, have fun with that.

    The whole team is stall, though. Like, super stall. Like, stall twice as hard as you've ever stalled, cause you wanna trap with Fire Spin.

    Now, alternatively, you wanna run 252 HP/Def 4 Spe, Bold. That doesn't tend to trap things well, though. Cause, you tend to get outsped.


    Anyway, I'd like some feedback. Tell me I'm wrong for the idea. Tell me it's awful, or tell me it's interesting and how to improve it. Whatever. Anything to help me, or the idea. I'm still testing, but, maybe it'll actually work out alright. :x

    Thanks,
    -Omni
  14. uwnim

    uwnim

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    Use Protect instead of Aqua Ring. In the Rain, Mollux will recover more than enough HP for a Sub after two turns. When it isn't raining, your set recovers 1/8th a turn which isn't enough to use sub every turn. Since this only works in the rain anyways, you should use Protect over Aqua Ring because it doubles the number of turns you can stall.
  15. Birkal

    Birkal woops, butter fingers :>
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    So I've been putzing around with a thrown together team of some of my OU favorites + Mollux. Here's the set I've been running:

    Mollux @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 228 Spd / 24 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Recover
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder
    - Sludge Wave

    It's definitely eclectic, but it's been fun to see what kind of holes Mollux can fill in defensively on a team. Recover is one of my favorite moves in the game. When combined with Black Sludge + Dry Skin, it makes Mollux near unbreakable. I run Toxic stall with a few of my other mons, so this definitely helps apply some pressure. Thunder really gives Mollux some extra oopmh in rain, despite Thunderbolt being the more "kosher" choice. I chose SR for my final move because I didn't have room for it anywhere else on my team! However, in hindsight, that would probably be better as Rapid Spin. I wouldn't really advise you to use this set. The point I'm trying to make more than anything is that Mollux is capable of performing a lot of different roles moderately well, which is cool.

    Anyways, I'm gonna be switching up teams pretty dramatically for the end of the playtest. I'm always so tempted to use Protect Mollux, but its movepool is so tantalizing that I usually end up opting for something else (like Recover or Rapid Spin). Also, Gliscor + Mollux is a really cool core that I'd encourage y'all to try out. They cover a lot of each others' weaknesses, both defensively vs. special defensively and typing-wise.

    Also yeah, don't use Tspikes ever. It won't end well, haha.
  16. Okami3221

    Okami3221

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    i don't go anywhere without it :D
  17. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    i dont know about you guys but mollux has been downright putrid when i used it; a standard sand team downright massacres mollux. using mollux like a spinner is like using cloyster as a spinner; sr weak and spikes vulnerable make it a bad option. the attacker sets are just walled to eternity by common pokes like heatran and ttar. for me its been a pretty weak poke q.q

    edit: and by used i meant faced cause i stopped using it after the first 10 battles
  18. uwnim

    uwnim

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    Mollux makes a pretty good spinner under rain because of how much HP it gains every turn. Recover also helps it out.
  19. Stew0The0Jew

    Stew0The0Jew

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    I dont know if anybody else is having this problem, PS isn't letting me use mollux that knows will-o-wisp. The exact message is
    "Your Team has been rejected for the following reasons:
    -Mollux can't learn Will-O-Wisp."

    is there any work around for that?
  20. uwnim

    uwnim

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    I had that problem near the beginning of the playtest. I mentioned it in the Pokemon Showdown bug report thread, hoped it would have been fixed. Been using Lava Plume instead.
  21. ShiningFire

    ShiningFire

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    I've been having problems with Mollux in the sun. Sure it doesn't have Dry Skin, but it has a full HP restore when it uses Moonlight.

    This is the one that I've been testing.

    Mollux @ Leftovers/Black Sludge
    Ability: Illuminate
    EVs: 252HP/252Def/4SDef
    -Lava Plume
    -Moonlight
    -Calm Mind
    -Toxic

    I have Calm Mind to boost my Special Attack and Defense, as Lava Plume is already double power under sunlight. Even with the full investment in defense it still isn't very high, so I have Lava Plume as an increased chance for burning a threat. Moonlight is, of course, a full health regenerator in the sun. Toxic is for special attackers that don't get an effect from burn.

    The main problems are still the same. Tyranitar, Reuniclus (who doesnt get affected by burn or poison) and all the other threats. The only hope for to beat Gliscor is to burn it on a switch, because it almost always is faster or uses Protect to activate the Toxic Orb. Reuniclus fucks it every time because Psyshock uses special attack, which I can't lower to attack my poor defense.
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    This obviously has nothing to do with the playtest but it seems I'm the only one that realized Poison Heal Gliscor can have Roost and Stealth Rock again.
  22. adonnis85

    adonnis85

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    Not sure about everyone else's experiences, but my DD Chestorest kingdra is loving the mollux play-test. Other people's rain based teams are everywhere, usually giving permanent rain coupled with the fact that the idea mollux is stopping most people from using Ferrothorn. Popping a DD a forced switch against an unprepared team with his #1 counter basically gone from the metagame has caused many many easy matches and outright full team sweeps for me.
  23. Meganium Sulfate

    Meganium Sulfate

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    I haven't tried this set yet, but what's to stop someone from simply using a set like...

    [​IMG]
    Mollux @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Sp. Atk
    Calm Nature
    - Protect
    - Substitute
    - Toxic / Toxic Spikes
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Once you have eliminated the opposing weather and Heatrans, set up rain and bring this set out. The EVs are a bit inaccurate, but the stalling potential is infinite. Repeated Protects and Substitutes gain you 1/8 of your HP every 2 rounds while being nearly invincible. Just set up poison or burn when you have an opening in between subs and you can't lose. I would use Will-O-Wisp instead of Lava Plume because this set falls apart when taunted anyway, so it's assumed that the taunters have been taken care of.
  24. uwnim

    uwnim

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    Why have any Special attack if you have 0 attacks? Put that into defense.

    There are too many pokemon that can't be burn or toxicstalled. Skarmory can just set up spikes and then whirlwind you away unless Mollux is your last pokemon. Rapid spin Mollux will outlast you.
  25. nyttyn

    nyttyn Ribbit!
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    Right, after hearing about and trying out Mollux in a lot of scenarios, I believe now is the time to give my final thoughts:

    In short, Mollux can be described as a square peg in a round hole.

    First of all, while Mollux has a lot of options at its disposal, it tends to have to heavily segment itself into parts. This is a consequence of its awkward stat spread. As a result, once you see one, sometimes two tops, moves of a Mollux's moveset, you will 9 times out of 10 know exactly what Mollux is running. This is unfortunate as Mollux really requires the opponent not knowing what it is to do its job.

    STATS

    To further understand Mollux's issues, we have to delve into its stats. First thing's first: Speed. My god, we could not have given this thing a more awkward speed. Quite frankly, this ties in with ability. We should not have given it stats until after the secondary ability polls, as this speed was clearly designed with drought in mind. Using RD's ideal EVs of 248 HP / 88 SpA / 172 SpE Modest, we can kill steel/grass types with lava plume, sure...but that leaves it outclassed by Magnezone utterly. So, really, 76 speed just shoots it in the foot for the roles it excels at, as it's too fast for trick room while too slow for any speed investment without scarf. Mollux is, unless running the rare scarf set, going to run last. I'll go back to why this is a problem in a minute.

    Its defensive stats are...well, they work. Makes it go up against bulky waters with ease, which is what it mostly wants to do. Can survive one sassy Ttar stone edge at max HP, but don't expect it to take physical non-fighting/grass hits without investment.

    131 SpAtk wrecks faces, but is crippled by the speed. It can run a scarf set, but it's outclassed. More on that in a bit.

    ABILITY
    Hardcounters bulky waters and spins in the rain. Use Illuminate on scarfed sun sets. Niche usage: Water soaker on sand teams. Sun teams already have chlorophyll so not as important, plus dry skin hurts in the sun.

    MOVEPOOL
    [​IMG]
    Rapid Spin + Recover + Protect / Stealth Rock / Toxic Spikes + Attack under the rain.

    This is all Mollux can feasibly run in a nutshell. I don't mean that simply because it's the best set Mollux has, I mean it because Mollux has no setup moves that work, simply because of its EdgeQuake weakness. Look at all the common setup sweepers in OU, and you'll see a common trend - either they have typings that lack horrible weaknesses, which let them set up repeatedly, or they have a way to boost their speed at the same time as their other stats.

    The movepool itself has many options, it's just that Mollux is outclassed in almost every roll.


    TYING IT ALL TOGETHER

    Mollux had a really, really good chance here to be an offensive presence as well as a defensive presence to help migate its x2 and x4 weaknesses, as suddenly it can beat common switchins with a surprise agility! But no, all it has is calm mind, and the ease of which ground and rock types/attackers come in on it means that it can't do shit and has to swap out. In addition, its taking a full quarter of health every time it switches in, so it can't try many times to set up. This makes it automatically inferior in every aspect to every other setup sweeper, as it doesn't have the resistances to pull off a bulky setup, nor the speed to pull off a one turn setup. Plus, although dry skin recovery is nice, fire, its main attacking STAB (lol poison) gets cut in half by the rain.

    Can it run a scarf set? Maybe. But if you look at the likes of other scarf users, such as Terrakion and Salamence, you'll see they have high speed and overwhelming offenses, as well as diverse movepools. Mollux has a low enough speed that it cannot properly outspeed and revenge many common +1 spe sweepers, and crappy enough defenses that Blissey and friends just stop it cold. Not to mention its (lack of) coverage, making it even more ill suited to the job of a scarfer. In addition, it requires an inordinate ammount of prediction, as being locked into the wrong move spells your doom. In summary: Outclassed

    Can it run a specs set? No. It does not have the coverage, and it is too slow. It is also outclassed by other bulkier specs users. It might work in trick room, but then blissey the fat whore comes in and ruins your day. Or airloon heatran. Plus there's the problem of trick room being painful to set up.

    Can it run a Cleric set? No, it has nothing that a cleric wants.

    So what can it run?

    Tentacruel's set. Mollux is, pretty much, Tentacruel 2.0.

    SUMMARY
    You'll notice outclassed pops up a lot here. That's because that's what Mollux is. For all the toys he get, he can't really use them. He's too slow and lacks the coverage to use scarf, too predictable and slow to use specs, too squishy, weak, and predictable to use life orb...

    Which leaves him with a spin, recover, attack, hazard set to use. Which, while great, is...pretty much all he can do.

    So uh, if you want to know what Mollux can and cannot do, just imagine a better Tentacruel with fire instead of water typing. We...didn't really create anything new here. I appologize if this seems like it ran out of steam at the end, but...

    well...

    it's tentacruel.



    tl;dr [​IMG] = [​IMG] but better.

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