CAP 4 CAP 4 - Support Moves Discussion

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I guess I'll comment. I will only say the important moves, and leave stuff no one will use to you guys.

Trick Room - I really don't understand how this is supposed do the move. That would be the only opposition I have to it.

Gravity - I entirely see this. Gravity increases, he retreats into the sand so that he doesn't feel it.

Encore/Taunt - Of course.

Spikes / Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock - Why not? He has all the proper appendages.

Beyond that, I don't really want anything else.
 
I think Tailwind became out of the question the moment we decided to make this a Ground type.

The in-game text suggests that the wind starts blowing from behind, that the Pokemon using the move is using it natural elemental connection to the air to control the winds. Any Pokemon using it, would have that power for migratory and soaring purposes, or while over the sea where updrafts are common (in Suicune's case, it's the god of the winds).

Rev and Pyroak's movesets have been reasonable flavor-wise. Giving this Pokemon Tailwind would be not only the biggest incongruity the CAP project would have seen so far, but is pretty out there even for all the rules Nintendo has broken with their own Pokemon over the years.


Also, Block and Switcheroo over Spider Web and Trick.
 
When I used "you" I meant it in general, not specifically towards you. I have a few not-so-sane people use them as offensive moves in my times.
last pokemon shuckle :pirate:


Hell yes:
Toxic Spikes
Spikes
Encore
Light Screen
Reflect
Rapid Spin
Wish
Trick Room
Knock Off
U-turn (if it counts as support)
Trick/Switcheroo
Torment
Helping Hand
Taunt
Imprison

Debatable:
DisableStealth Rock
Agility/Rock Polish
Baton Pass
Gravity
Block/Spider Web

Hell no:
Tailwind (it doesn't even have a tail!)
Heal BellWill-O-WispCounter
Mirror Coat
Most stat up moves bar Agility
Yawn
Hypnosis
Aqua Ring
Recover/Moonlight/Slack Off/Synthesis/Morning Sun
 

tennisace

not quite too old for this, apparently
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Giving this Pokemon Tailwind would be not only the biggest incongruity the CAP project would have seen so far, but is pretty out there even for all the rules Nintendo has broken with their own Pokemon over the years.
Syclant + Mountaineer, Fire Fang and Stone Edge. Its not the biggest, but I agree nonetheless.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and state my opinion that Block (makes more sense flavor-wise than SW) + Encore is not broken. We are not talking about Wobb here, people!

Consider this scenario: DLL against whatever. Now, either the opponent will switch out, or they will not. For the sake of argument, we'll assume they switch. If they don't, then either 1) they have a reason for it, such as attacking you or setting up, and as such don't want to switch, or 2) they deserve to be set up on for not utilizing one of the most basic tools in the trainer's arsenal. Assuming they switch and you Block, now what? Your opponent is not going to switch to a pokemon that cannot do anything to the DLL, so we'll assume that the opponent is going to do something like use a high-power/STAB/SE move that you really don't want to be Encoring. It's also probable that they would bring in a Taunter, which would completely screw this thing over (can't use Encore after Taunt). High speed + Encore can also be a curse at times, as you can't Encore something slower that just switched in; this further hampers the Block + Encore strategy. In addition, Block takes up a precious moveslot, limiting your options to something like Block/Encore/set-up move/attack. Potent enough if you know what you're doing with it, but not a direct threat to much.

The only argument I see for Block + Encore being broken is that the Encored pokemon is forced to repeat their move again, instead of switching out (as with "normal" Encoring). But let's be realistic, even a set-up Bellyzard isn't invincible. There's no way you can argue that giving something 1 free turn is gamebreaking.

Not that I'm saying this would be useless, but it's nowhere near the level of brokenness that's being claimed (without any backup reasons, I might add).
 
Hmm...good argument there, amigo. Block and Encore would either have to be either Egg Moves with different parents, or one will be a level move and the other an egg move.

In this scenario, I call for Block to be level and Dildo Wiggle to be Egg move. Why? Because if he got both as regular moves, the it's a simple case of using said fact to make him into a wannabe Wobbuffet, Encoring a stat booster then blocking the switch in for easy setup by Gyara or whatever.
 
I just did some more Googling and deduced that some DLLs do make webs, while others don't. There are a couple classes of animals under the name "Daddy long legs" and one of them does make webs; it happens to be the one more commonly referred to. So I suppose it depends upon which one Cartoons! had in mind when he was making his design.
Source: link

I also understand that there are a couple Pokemon that have high speed and learn Slack Off ( I don't count Vigoroth because it's really Slakoth who actually learns it ), but I think it's best to try and avoid Nintendo's incongruencies as much as possible --- especially when there's already a much more sensical explanation flavourwise for Recover ( DLL is a spider, spiders can regenerate limbs, simple enough ).
I'm personally indifferent to whether it gets a 50% recovery move or not, however.

Also, no one seems to have mentioned the typical Ground support moves, so I'll mention the overlooked ones now.

Mud Sport
Rock Tomb
Sand-Attack
Sandstorm
Sand Tomb

( Yeah, not a lot. Oh well )

P.S., I'm going Whirlwind over Roar. It doesn't seem to have a mouth to make noises with, and anyways if Hariyami can do it with two hands, eight hands should be more than enough.
 
how about considering ingrain?
i know its a grass exclusive but think about it.
sticking extremities into the ground to absorb nutrients [...ok primarily roots but you get the idea]
and what does this thing do? Well it shoves itself into the ground. Yes its a stretch but its nice when pokemon have unique moves that are plausible but dont seem to fit. like clefable's meteor mash xD
on a side note, ingrain prevents whirlwind/roar, right? that could be good for a utility pokemon. And since it can have vital spirit as well, roar, whirlwind, and yawn pHazing is gone right there.
 
As has been previously shown before, to use Gravity, you have to be either a Fairy, or a supernatural creature. Wish follows the same restrictions, for the most part.

Trick Room essentially needs psychic/space/time powers to back it.

And for Tailwind you either need wings or, in the case of Suicune, a physical embodiment of the Northern Wind.

Giving the DLL any of those is really stretching it. Especially Tailwind. Granted, ever since Ground was decided as the second type, the one move everyone seems to be talking about is Gravity, so I fully expect it to get it anyway, with some unrealistic explanation.

Anyway, here's the ones that work for me at least:
Acupressure
Agility
Assist
Barrier
Captivate
Counter
Detect
Disable
Embargo
Encore
"Every Pokemon" TM moves
Follow Me
Gastro Acid
Guard Swap
Helping Hand
Knock Off
Light Screen
Me First
Metronome
Mud Sport
Poison Gas
Protect
Rapid Spin
Reflect
Rest
Rock Tomb
Sand-Attack
Sandstorm
Sand Tomb
Sleep Talk
Snatch
Spiderweb
Spikes
Stealth Rocks
Substitute
Switcheroo
Taunt
Teeter Dance
Thief
Tickle
Torment
Toxic
Toxic Spikes
Trick
 
giving it ingrain would not allow it to do the job it was made to do (support the team)
it couldn't switch out after using a move
 
I don't suppose it's too late for someone to sprite little fans on DLL's spikes to make Tailwind plausible? XP

(I kid, I kid.)

A bit of a stretch, but Trick Room and Gravity could work by claiming that DLL uses its multiple hands to manipulate and restrict the opponent's movements or somesuch.

I'm against DLL getting Stealth Rock, but I'd like it to get (Toxic) Spikes. Everyone and their mother gets Stealth Rock these days anyway. The other spike varieties need some love. <_<
 
i imagine gravity as him sitting on your bench, reaching up and swatting things down to the ground for your other team members.
 
Or one could say that DLL is really a magician in disguise. With all that magic within all 8 of his hands, he creates a temporary increase in gravity or open a portal to another dimension(Trick Room). Hell, with just a wave of his hand(s) he creates a mighty gust of wind behind him. How does he use the Screens....with magic of course. Rapid Spin, plant drill in dirt and rotate mid-section like a helicopter blade on steroids.
 

LonelyNess

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Did we not give it Persistent for a reason?

Why are Gravity/Trick Room/Tailwind even a question for this Pokemon!?

The ability was made specifically FOR these moves. Doesn't it seem a bit ridiculous to not give it to him?

I'll edit in a real list later.
 
Yes:
Encore
Taunt
Stealth Rocks
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
U-Turn
Torment
Baton Pass
Agility
Substitute
Knock Off

Maybe:
Heal Bell
Slack Off - 50% heal, do we want it or not?
Trick
Yawn
Swords Dance
Thunder Wave
Rapid Spin

No:
Hypnosis/Spore etc
Tailwind
Gravity (How does it make it? O_o)
Screens (How does it make them? O_o)
Trick Room (How does it make it? O_o)
 
The one thing I do want to avoid on this is Baton Pass. There are plenty other Pokes that use this well and Baton Pass will waste a moveslot better suited to the more unused moves. Also if it gets Baton Pass it'll also have to get at least one stat up move and considering how fast and defensive this'll be it could be just plain nasty. Lets focus on other fun ideas eh?
 
No:
Gravity (How does it make it? O_o)
Screens (How does it make them? O_o)
Trick Room (How does it make it? O_o)
How does Blissey make Gravity?
How does Spinda make Trick Room?
How does Mamoswine make the Screens?

As far as I'm concerned, what you're saying flat out 'no' to is at least debatable.

The ability was made specifically FOR these moves. Doesn't it seem a bit ridiculous to not give it to him?
Doesn't it seem a bit more ridiculous to give a Ground typed spider Tailwind of all things?
 
Block + encore is not overpowered unless it gets BP imo. Ability trappers (wobb included) are only really bad because they can get free revenge kills on things that would never stay in on them if they had a choice. Nobody who's afraid of being encored will stay in on something with block + encore.
 
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