CAP 16 CAP 5 - Part 12 - Flavor Ability Discussion

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Birkal

caw
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#1
Even though the playtest is going on (read about it here, we still need to decide on a flavor ability for Malaconda! Remember though, this ability should be little significance competitively. Malaconda already has two competitive abilities, and our Policy Review Committee has deemed that two is the maximum number.

The following abilities are banned from this discussion:

Air Lock
Bad Dreams
Color Change
Defeatist
Forecast
Illusion
Imposter
Moody
Multitype
Sand Veil
Shadow Tag
Slow Start
Snow Cloak
Teravolt
Truant
Turboblaze
Victory Star
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode

Arena Trap
Drizzle
Drought
Huge Power
Magic Bounce
Magic Guard
Prankster
Pure Power
Sand Stream
Serene Grace
Snow Warning
Speed Boost​

Furthermore, I'm going to come right out with it and say that Unreleased Dream World abilities are banned from this dicussion. We don't need to putz around with Malaconda having Drought as its unreleased DW ability; that opens up a dangerous can of worms.

If you're left wondering why these abilities are banned, check out this thread to learn more. Remember, the ability we choose here is an Ineffective Ability, meaning that it should be inferior to both Harvest and Infiltrator (Malaconda's competitive abilities). As is now standard with flavor discussions and polls, I will be slating any entry that is a) competitively inferior to Malaconda's other two options and b) follows the above rules. If you have any other questions about how this thread works, don't be afraid to PM me.

I don't think we need too much time to dwell on this, so you can expect this thread to be open for three to four days.

CAP 5 so far:

Name: Malaconda




Concept:
Name: Type Equalizer

Description: A pokemon whose presence in the metagame increases the usage of one or more underused types and simultaneously decreases the usage of one or more overused types.

Justification: Take a look at the OU usage statistics for January and you'll see that 9 out of the top 10 pokemon have either steel, water, dragon or fighting as one of their types, and extending it to the top 20 shows 16/20 with those types. We should also be asking ourselves why these trends exist so strongly and what can be done about them. In creating this CAP,we'd have to discuss in depth many different aspects of what makes a type and opinions can ultimately being tested in the playtest.

Questions To Be Answered:
  • Is a types usefulness relative to the metagame or is it intrinsic? (Ie. Can any type be the "best" type given the right circumstances or do type match-ups, available STAB moves etc mean some types will always be better than others?)
  • What exploitable weaknesses do "good" types in OU have? Are their currently pokemon that can exploit them and if so, how do they function differently to CAP5?
  • How (if at all) will the targeted types adapt to the situation created? Will people choose different movesets, abilities, etc or will they just use them more/less? How is this linked to the way CAP5 functions strategically?
  • What effects will the changes on certain types' presence have on the metagame?
  • Which members of the targeted types will benefit and suffer from this most and why?
  • By creating CAP5, have we learnt any new ways to counter good types or use bad types?
Typing: Dark / Grass
Abilities: Harvest / Infiltrator
Stats: 115 HP / 100 Atk / 60 Def / 40 SpA / 130 SpD / 55 Spe
Movepool:
1 - Rapid Spin
1 - Vine Whip
1 - Pursuit
1 - Wrap
6 - Pursuit
12 - Wrap
18 - Grass Knot
25 - Sucker Punch
30 - Slam
36 - Leaf Blade
42 - Crunch
48 - Wring Out
57 - Power Whip
66 – Punishment
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM66 Payback
TM67 Retaliate
TM68 Giga Impact
TM82 Dragon Tail
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM93 Wild Charge
TM95 Snarl
HM01 Cut
HM04 Strength
Bind
Dark Pulse
Foul Play
Giga Drain
Heal Bell
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Seed Bomb
Sleep Talk
Snore
Spite
Synthesis
Worry Seed
Egg Groups: Grass/Dragon

Aromatherapy
Beat Up
Glare
Haze
Night Slash
Poison Powder
Scary Face
Screech
Sweet Scent
Stun Spore
Height: 5.5 m / 18’ 0’’
Weight: 108.8 kg / 240 lbs
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
#2
gluttony

  • one of the seven deadly sins
  • makes sense in conjunction with harvest
  • what caused adam and eve to eat the apple
  • competitively useless
 
#3
Now, I can see three options Malaconda can have regarding our non-competitive ability.

Gluttony: Reasoning behind this is fairly straightforward. Gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins, which was the concept behind Malaconda, as the snake in Genesis. Gluttony as a pokemon ability also relates to Harvest as berry flavour, meaning we have double flavour going on here. I'm throwing my support behind Gluttony for now, it is certainly the most fitting.

Unnerve: This ability also has double flavour, but to a lesser extent. Unnerve fits with the berry flavour, whilst showing off Malaconda's sinister manner.

No Ability: This is for those who feel that there is no need for Malaconda to gain a flavour ability. To be honest though, no pokemon needs a flavour ability, but it is always nice to have one, since flavour is ALWAYS NICE.
 

dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
#4
I'm inclined to say we don't really need an extra ability. Not everything has two normal abilities and a DW ability; I think throwing one on seems a little pointless.

That being said, if we end up having one, I'd be inclined to support Gluttony or Unnerve, for the reasons Eagle4 outlined.
 
#6
Truant is disallowed. Anyway...
First thoughts:

Gluttony seems like a nice choice. Makes sense flavour-wise and all, plus kind of cool. It's not like this thing gets Belly Drum, after all.
Unnerve allows Malaconda to beat other Malaconda 1v1, and would generally be superior to Infiltrator due to this, at least in a metagame centered around Malaconda. Do not want.
No ability is kind of... Eh. I just want a little bit of flavour to go along with this thing. It wouldn't be bad or unfitting, persay, just a little, you know, less desirable than an ability.
 

dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
#7
I don't think we need to worry about whether Unnerve will allow Malaconda to beat others of its own kind 1v1, as Harvest is an integral part of its niche. That said, Gluttony does seem a little better.
 
#8
Gluttony or nothing. Unnerve goes against Malaconda's personality. Malaconda wants you to eat the berry. Eat it now. It's delicious. Have more!!
 

dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
#9
Ooh, hadn't thought of that. Unnerve is a bad idea, then.

...Except Gluttony would sort of defeat that purpose as well, since Malaconda himself will be eating it before you get the chance.
 

Bughouse

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#10
Aside from the obvious Gluttony suggestion, I'd like to also bring up Aftermath and Cursed Body.

Aftermath - "A consequence, especially of a disaster or misfortune." Banishment from the Garden of Eden.
Cursed Body - Maybe not so much the body being cursed, but the Golden Apple sure is. It started the Trojan War.
Another obvious simple option for a snake is Shed Skin, though I don't favor this one, since it's kinda boring.
 
#11
Aside from the obvious Gluttony suggestion, I'd like to also bring up Aftermath and Cursed Body.

Aftermath - "A consequence, especially of a disaster or misfortune." Banishment from the Garden of Eden.
Cursed Body - Maybe not so much the body being cursed, but the Golden Apple sure is. It started the Trojan War.
Another obvious simple option for a snake is Shed Skin, though I don't favor this one, since it's kinda boring.
Despite these abilities having somewhat decent flavour, Cursed Body, and to a greater extent, Shed Skin, are all viable competitive abilities for Malaconda. Aftermath is a nice idea, but I lean towards Gluttony simply from the fact that it has better flavour, and is less competitive.
 

dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
#12
@srk1214: As much as I love the idea of Cursed Body in terms of flavor, I have to point out that while those three abilities are not specifically banned, I don't think they fall under the category of "ineffective ability" that we're looking for, since all three have some competitive utility. Shed Skin helps mitigate the problems with Rest and any stray burn/deadly poison that Malaconda might encounter, and Aftermath punishes physical attackers who KO Malaconda with contact moves. (It's also worth mentioning that Aftermath's Japanese name, Yuubaku, translates to "detonation", and that ability makes no flavor-sense on any Pokemon who can't learn Explosion and/or Selfdestruct.)
EDIT: ER made an excellent point regarding Cursed Body allowing Malaconda to force switches and spam Glare. I'll have to oppose this as well.
 

Bughouse

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#13
Remember that Malaconda has Harvest. Anything not good in some unique niche will never be used. I agree that potentially Shed Skin falls into this category. I also cede that Aftermath's original Japanese is about Detonation and that all who have the ability can use Explosion/Selfdestruct, so I'll table Aftermath.

But I don't understand the fight against Cursed Body lol. It's not competitive on Malaconda. For all intents and purposes Cursed Body is as useless as Gluttony. Harvest outclasses Cursed Body in all cases.

We already have Infiltrator. Cursed Body is of comparable outclassed-ness.
 
#14
Cursed Body is the closest your suggestions get to non-competitiveness, since most of the Pokemon who can take out Malaconda 1v1 are strong enough to hit him hard with multiple moves anyway.
I strongly disagree with this. Malaconda can take almost any special SE hit including Ninetales' sun boosted Fire Blasts and Volcarona's unboosted Bug Buzzs, which would force switches if Cursed Body activates and make its Glare spamming job even easier. Ok probably not in Volcarona's case, but pokemon such as Ninetales, Thundurus and Heatran would definitely need to switch out.
Even without berries it has semi-reliable healing tools in Aromatherapy and Synthesis.

Gluttony is fine for what I'm concerned.
 
#15
I'd like to nominate Pressure for flavour. Not only is it inferior to Harvest, but it also makes sense - it's pressuring you to eat the apple.

"C'mon... You know you want it... It'd taste good! Not like anything is gonna happen, anyway... Just a bite?"
 
#16
Solar Power - Normally would be competitive. However, with the stats Malaconda has, I feel it would not be competitive.

Overgrow - Like this is competitive in the slightest.

Pickup - Picks up discarded berries?



I don't know. Just trying to give others some more ideas for flavor abilities.
 
#17
I'd like to nominate Pressure for flavour. Not only is it inferior to Harvest, but it also makes sense - it's pressuring you to eat the apple.

"C'mon... You know you want it... It'd taste good! Not like anything is gonna happen, anyway... Just a bite?"
Flavourwise, I think this is the best ability that has been suggested so far. Gluttony is a close second by virtue of the whole seven deadly sins thing.

I'd like to suggest one that may seem a little odd: Unburden. Flavourwise, I'm thinking once someone has picked the apple from Malaconda, they have succumbed to the temptation, making evil (and by extension Malaconda) stronger in some way. Competitively, I don't know much, but it sounds like Malaconda would find it extremely difficult to use the speed boost from Unburden to go on a killing spree.
 

Nyktos

Custom Loser Title
#18
I like Pickpocket a lot. Stealing items is reasonably fitting for Malaconda, but the part that makes it really work for me is that you steal the item only when the opponent hits you -- i.e. Malaconda lures the opponent in with the apple and then steals an item. It's also an ability distributed solely as the Dream World ability for Dark-types, so the precedent makes sense.

I also definitely like Gluttony, for reasons already stated. Malaconda doesn't quite scream "glutton" to me, but it works well enough. No third ability is fine, too.
 
#20
Gluttony or nothing. Unnerve goes against Malaconda's personality. Malaconda wants you to eat the berry. Eat it now. It's delicious. Have more!!
I think I agree with this, combined with the fact that Gluttony has limited usefullness. However, I could see it having potential to open up a Liechi Berry set (although it might not work in many situations).
 
#21
Gluttony makes a lot of sense, so I'm OK with that, but I'd also like to suggest Anticipation, since snakes are supposed to be clever, you know? It's also quite inferior to Harvest, and even Infiltrator. Just my two cents.

EDIT: Just saw Pickpocket up a few posts. Love the idea.
 

dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
#22
Pickpocket actually makes a lot of sense. That's the best one so far IMO.

Objection, the Japanese name of the ability translates to "acrobatics". That doesn't seem to fit Malaconda too well...
 
#23
Totally throwing all my support behind Pressure, caused Eve to eat the apple and it's completely useless on Malaconda because you can't PP stall with it w/o Leppa Berry and Harvest
 

Deck Knight

Tornadic Cyclohm
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Moderator
#24
Uncompetitive Abilities:

Aftermath / Anger Point - Wrath equivalent. Though the latter would be situationally scary with Sucker Punch.
Cute Charm - a stand-in for Lust.
Defiant / Justified - A staple of "Prideful" Pokemon and fairly irrelevant given most common Intimidate Pokemon easily defeat it.
Gluttony - Exactly what it says on the tin.
Pickpocket / Rivalry - Greed / Envy equivalent.
Stall - Sloth equivalent.

Personally I like Gluttony, Defiant, and Stall the most out of these choices.
 
#25
I happily throw my support behind Pressure and Pickpocket, but here are a few others to mull over.

Anger Point: Flavour wise this works off the whole "if you leave a snake alone it'll leave you alone but if you don't it'll probably try to kill you" idea. Competitively it's pretty useless, although Mala certainly has more chance of using it effectively than any Pokemon who currently has it. We'd need more discussion on wether it is competitively viable.

Limber: Flexible in Japanese, makes sense for a snake, and completely outclassed by Harvest and Lum Berry.

Oblivious: Malaconda is so evil and heartless that it could never love another creature. Obviously useless because no one uses infatuation moves.

Stall: This reminds me of another of the sins, Sloth. Does nothing for Malaconda beyond making sure Payback gets its power doubled.

Edit: Ninja'd on Stall and Anger Point. That'll teach me to get distracted mid-reply
 
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