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CAP Server Mini-Tournament Rules Workshop

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by Bass, Aug 17, 2008.

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  1. Captain

    Captain
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    I have talked to Bass privately about the issue and he knows my opinion but he has asked me to post here even though I'm reluctant to:

    I have no interest in completely trashing the point values of less standard tourneys. Let their scores matter. I did a very quick skimming of this thread as to why we shouldn't count them, but they utterly failed to convince me why these tournaments are so lacking in worth (sorry for being so derogatory but that's what said posts imply) that they should not to be counted.
  2. cyberzero

    cyberzero
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    I also think that completely overhauling the leaderboard would be a huge waste of a lot of the hard work that all the participants, TO's and TD have done. I think we should keep the scores as they are but change the point values of the MTs as I've said before so that all MTs from now on will be added on top of the current leaderboard.
    An example of a benefit of my idea:
    Since Spanky hasn't joined any tourneys in a while, he won't be stagnant at the top unless he starts participating in tourneys again. Of course, someone can work his or her way up, but it would take considerably longer. With the new values, this is sped up while keeping the preference of standard tourneys, yet allowing nonstandard tourneys to go on.
  3. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    To answer DK's point about team advantage:

    Yes some teams are more viable than others, and some types in Mono but... Some strategies are more viable in OU/UU/LC/Ubers and some teams are more viable.
    People may all pick Steel/Dragon but then someone will find out which types beat those.
    If nothing can beat them (improbable) then all you have is a metagame centralised around a few Pokemon, just like Ubers which is perfectly fine.
    Maybe not all players are aiming just to win and want to try out other types? Well with a bit of skill and careful planing they could beat the people who chose the standard types.

    As to type advantage in Mono tourneys:
    You have a less extreme example of this in normal OU, anyone who has played a few games knows that once and a while you meet a team that your team has really big problems with.
    In Mono its just normal team advantage but amplified.


    Also I do not think we should change the values.
    Its not exactly fair on those who earnt points in the past to say "You got 1 point for winning the tourney then, but we are giving 2 points to those who win it now.".

    Yes Spanky has a LOT more points than most people, but that's because he was very active and skilled for a long time.
    He deservs that No. 1 spot untill someone can outdo his score on the same terms.
  4. Bass

    Bass Brother in arms
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    Alright guys, I know that this may sound somewhat radical to you, especially to eric, but I am going to remove the MT Scoreboard. I have thought this over for a long time, but I am almost convinced that the scoreboard is no longer a necessity as it was several months ago when it was first created. I have already PM'd each of the Senior TOs about this, and they have almost unanimously supported my decision, but I want to let everyone else get the last word in before going on with this. I have a list of reasons for this decision below. It is especially important that you read the entire thing if you have any reservations about this.

    First and foremost, the presence of a ladder on the server has virtually made the scoreboard virtually obsolete. We have had the ladder and the scoreboard running simultaneously for quite a while now, but I feel that we need to consider the purpose of the scoreboard, which is, as I wrote several months ago, to determine not only the relative skill level of players but also who participates the most.

    When looking at it that way, the ladder currently does it far better, as it requires not only skill to maintain a good rating but also activity. On the other hand, all stats on the scoreboard are permanent. Because of this, the scoreboard has outlived its purpose. SoT has the greatest number of points by far, but when's the last time he won, let alone participated in an MT? Probably several months ago. Hell, I am leading in the TO Scoreboard, but also haven't hosted an MT in months.

    Also, updating the scoreboard is almost impractical. To be blunt, it's a serious pain in the ass. I usually tend to update it every one to two weeks, but it takes a lot longer than it should mostly because of the fact that I am in fact a human. The ladder, on the other hand, is always up to date at any given moment, and does not require the management of certain users to accomplish this. Yes, you may accuse me of being lazy, but because a better alternative (the ladder) exists, it makes such a tedious task seem so uneccessary.

    Finally, the one thing that holds true to the purpose of MTs is that they are meant to be fun, not necessarily competitive. Mono-Tournaments, Tag Team Tournaments, and all kinds of things are not possible on a ladder, but are commonly done in MTs. People aren't (or shouldn't) be playing them to get their score up on an arbitrary scoreboard, but simply for having fun.

    Keep in mind, I would like to emphasize that I only plan on removing the scoreboard. I still believe that only responsible users should have the priviledge to organize tournaments on the server, so everything else, including the list of TO's, will remain intact. I plan on making this change very soon and wanted to let you guys know, but if you are still opposed, and present a good reason, I may call back on this decision. Otherwise, I hope you guys understand.
  5. sbc

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    I agree with the decision to remove the scoreboard, I think that being functional for many months is a tribute to yours and eric's dedication to keeping this running.

    I think that tournaments can now be a more light-hearted and spontaneous thing (as well as competently run) that should be more geared to niche matches and "competitive" ways of testing teams outside of the ladder.
  6. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Fair enough. I know from experience how hard it is and how much time it takes to update that thing, and now that we have a ladder (well two) there is not so much need to keep the scores.

    Do you plan to keep a "frozen" copy of the scoreboard?
  7. tennisace

    tennisace ium's avatar is his butt on my face
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    Like I already said I agree with this decision, after having to update it a few times myself I know it's a pain in the arse. I also agree that now that there is no leaderboard, tournaments will be more spontaneous and lighthearted then they already are, which is a good thing since we already have a serious ladder.
  8. Bass

    Bass Brother in arms
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    Mods can "soft-delete" posts (that is, make it possible to restore them in the future if needed), so that isn't an issue.
  9. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    mmk, well unless anyone has objections to this then go ahead.

    Edit: 1999th post.. uh oh..
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