CAP1 - Part 12.5b - (Pre-Evo Stat Spread Poll 1)

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This poll will determine the combination of abilities that CAP1's pre-evolution will have. This will be an IRV vote, which means that you can vote for as many of the poll options as you want in order of preference.

The following are options for this poll:
Deck Knight
Destiny Warrior
zyrefredric
Engineer Pikachu
Nails
Many of these spreads were determined by calculations and competitive forethought, despite that PreCAP1 is purely founded in flavor. I think this is important, as otherwise we risk creating a superpowered behemoth for the LC metagame, which would not be good. Anyway, let's get this moving, and remember: This is a purely flavor segment of the CAP; CAP1's pre-evo will be banned during playtest, so don't assume that anything decided here will change the playtest in any way.

Here are the slated submissions in order of submission:
Yeah, I ain't doing big calcs for this.

Evo Stats: 105 HP / 60 Atk / 90 Def / 115 SpA / 80 SpD / 85 Spe (Total 535)

Prevo Stats: 65 HP / 45 Atk / 70 Def / 90 SpA / 55 SpD / 60 Spe (Total 385)

PT: 94.2233
ST: 76.2119
PS: 58.8863
SS: 107.1584
BSR: 158.4036

Stat: Base +3 (EVs) +

HP: 23 > 26 (236)
Atk: 11 > 14 (236) 15+
Def: 13 > 16 (196) 17+
SpA: 15 > 18 (196) 19+
SpD: 12 > 15 (236) 16+
Spe: 12 > 15 (196) 16+

Evolution Growth style: Munchlax (-5) -> Snorlax (-5).

Our prevo doesn't have its wings yet, but it's got a pretty good fighting spirit (Scrappy) so it's speed is middling. It's got a pretty good special attack, but it's HP is too high for it to abuse 19HP Life Orb. Considering that with Scrappy, Normal + Fighting is unresisted STAB, this is an acceptable balance. Our prevo is resistant to Sucker Punch and theoretically gets Vacuum Wave, so it should be just fine. Vacuum Wave/Aura Sphere/Hyper Voice/Hidden Power (Ice/Fire/Psy/Flying) should work quite nicely as a Scrappy set.
Ok, I've been spending time over my stat spread(which I discussed in #cap), and so far, I have this:-

(Stat ranges are with 31 IVs, anda neutral nature)

HP: 52 (21-24)
Atk: 35 (10-13)
Def: 72 (13-16)
SpA: 75 (14-17
SpDef: 72(13-16)
Spe: 72(13-16)

Optimum special sweeping spread: 20 HP/24 Def/236 SpA/20 SpD/180 Spe for Hidden power Ice. Deduct 4 EVs from Def if not runnign Hidden power Ice.

Prankster requires good bulk, so I decided to use Scraggy's defenses, and optimize them.

This Pokemon has Scraggy-level bulk(you'll notice if you look carefully that it actually hits the same defenses as Scraggy, with lesser EV investment), and simialr offenses. The addition to speed may at first sound very strong, but consider this: our pre-evo will literally not get any speed-boosting moves, if the non-attacking moves discussion for the evo is anything to go on. No Agility, no Rock Polish, zilch speed boosting moves. With this in mind, you'll realise that unlike Scragg, this will not be able to plow through the whole tier with a single turn. Instead, the focus of this spread is to provide a Pokemon that can tank a crucial hit, and can revenge kill it by utilising Scrappy. Some damage calculations:-

236 Life Orb Modest Hyper Voice Vs 0/0 Misdreavus holding Eviolite: 45.5% - 59.1%(2HKO with Stealth Rock)(10 - 13)
In return: 63.6% - 81.8%(14-18) from Max SpA Misdreavus with 20/20 HP/Def on pre-evo.

This means that once our pre-evo gets in, unless it is fairly weakened, it will entirely stop Misdreavus from coming in, which is a nice feat to achieve.

236 LO Modest Aura Sphere Vs 116/36 Scraggy with Evilite(Standard DD): 104.3% - 130.4%

This is no mean feat. Scraggy is one of the biggest threats in the metagame, and the ability to OHKO it, preventing it from attempting to setup is a good feat.

In return: 63.6% - 81.8% from a +1 Drain Punch(14-18). Once again, this can even revenge kill a +1 Scraggy without a Scarf, further cementing its role on teams.

236 LO Modest 121.7% - 156.5% to offensive Eviolite SD Gligar with Hidden power Ice. This means that Gligar will not be able to set up on our pre-evo, something I feel is very important. Since we don't possess access to blazing fast Speed, we have to make up for it by making it very difficult to set up on CAP1, in which Scrappy is a leap in the right direction.

60% - 75%(12 - 15)(Hyper Voice with earlier EVs) against Eviolite 36/76 Meditite. While this may seem a bit underwhelmign, recall that meditite has to choose whther it invests its last point in defense or SpD, and against Def Tite, this does 65% - 80%(13-16). Remember, Eviolite Meditite is just one set! This will dispatch with Life Orb versions of most of the earlier threats with no issues at all.

Remember, these calcs are all with Life Orb Modest, and there is a specific reason for this. I want people to be forced to choose between hitting the coveted 17 speed tier, and gaining several KOes. I do not want this to turn into a Murkrow/(insert uber here), so I want to make this one-dimensional(specially absed), and to force it to sacrifice a speed point for getting crucial KOes, 2HKOes etc.

I picture a Vacuum Wave/Hyper Voice/Aura Sphere/Hidden Power Ice Life Orb set to be the standard.

On request of a few people, I have added BSRs to this submission.

PT: 85.2652(Below Average)
ST: 87.1367(Below Average
PS: 54.2824(Poor)
SS: 107.7833
ODB: 2.8580(Slightly biased towards offense)
PSB: -8.1112
BSR: 157.0859
I am expecting that this rule (or the absence thereof) may lead to CAP pre-evos with relatively high BSTs, so i figured to do a little checking on current game data. I compiled a list of pre-evos of two-stage pokemon with the highest BSTs, presented below:
*Scyther 500
*Tangela 435
*Misdreavus 435
*Gligar 430
*Sneasel 430
Ponyta 410
**Archen 401
*Porygon 395
*Yanma 390
***Muchlax 390
*Onix 385
*Lickitung 385
*Nosepass 375
Vullaby 370
*Aipom 360
Larvesta 360
**Omanyte 355
**Kabuto 355
**Lileep 355
**Anorith 355
**Tirtouga355
Growlithe 350
**Cranidos 350
**Shieldon 350
Buneary 350
Mienfoo 350
Rufflet 350
Drifloon 348

* pokemon that evolved at a later generation
** fossil pokemon
*** a pre-evo of an old gen pokemon

As you can notice, most of them are pokemon that evolved at a later generation. Most pre-evo BSTs range around 350 or lower. Ponyta way up there is a weird case though. I never knew it had that high BST before evolving. I was hoping to suggest a pre-evo BST range/limit, but Ponyta alone makes my whole argument moot, so I guess it really just depends on the submissions and TL discretion then. ^^ I personally opted for 350, same as Growlithe and Buneary.


105 HP / 60 Atk / 90 Def / 115 SpA / 80 SpD / 85 Spe (Total 535) — Tomohawk's stats
55 HP / 85 Atk / 80 Def / 20 SpA / 70 SpD / 40 Spe (Total 350) — Tomo's baby bro!


First thing to notice is how the pre-evo has a high attack (85 Atk) but abysmal special attack (20 SpA). I envision the pre-evo to be a fierce warrior cub, incapable of using arcane spells, but skilled in physical combat. Only after evolving into Tomohawk does it gain magic capabilities.

Second, it has really high defenses (55 HP / 80 Def / 70 SpD). Eviolite is, for me, the best competitive item Gen5 has brought to the metagame. I'm hoping CAP1 pre-evo can let us "evaluate" it's competitive merit.

Lastly, low speed (40 Spe), as without the wings (yet) it must be considirably slower than Tomohawk. Besides, Prankster allows us to bypass this low stat.

Level 5 LC stats
55 HP: 22 - 25 (236)
85 Atk: 15 - 18 (236) 19+
80 Def: 14 - 17 (196) 18+
20 SpA: 8 - 11 (196) 12+
70 SpD: 13 - 16 (196) 17+
40 Spe: 10 - 13 (196) 14+
(^ format stolen from Deck Knight)

(as requested)
Physical Sweepiness (PS): 78.73
Special Sweepiness (SS): 38.74
Physical Tankiness (PT): 97.96
Special Tankiness (ST): 87.32
Base Stat Ratings (BSR): 136.32


Even with a low BST of 350, you may notice that the PS, PT and ST are quite high. This is due to the low SpA, so you can say that my proposed stat spread is optimized to be a physical attacker.


Last thoughts:
I get the feeling that this Pre-evo stage in CAP is more for the LC players. But with eviolite, a pre-evo with this stat spread can be put to good use in the current metagame. I have no clear experience with Little Cup, so please advise me if this stat spread would make a broken defensive behemoth in LC.
Yeaa let's try this again. I firmly believe that Cub (nicknaming it Cub right now) should be physically-based.

HP: 71 (22 - 25)
Attack: 75 (14 - 17)
Defense: 61 (13 - 16)
Sp.A: 44 (10 - 14)
Sp.D: 57 (13 - 16)
Speed: 55 (12 - 15)

PT: 86.79 (Below Average)
ST: 83.16 (Below Average)
PS: 91.93 (Below Average)
SS: 62.82 (Poor)

ODB: 0.34 (Slightly biased towards offense)
PSB: 4.80 (Slightly biased towards physical)

BSR: 150.69 (Below Average)
BST: 373

As you can see, Cub is pretty balanced. Zuruggu / Scraggy reaches a PS of 78.75, significantly less than Cub. However, Zuruggu has the moves that allow it to become a threatening sweeper. Cub lacks the setup moves that Zuruggu possesses, so I think it balances out.

I made this spread with Zuruggu in mind. I wanted a defensive set to work best, but I also made it such that an offensive set could work. With the given spread, it is possible to max out attack and speed, and add one point to HP and Sp.A. I also made it such that a mixed attacking set could work: a set with 252 Sp.A / 236 Spe gives Cub 14 / 14 / 15 attacking stats. It doesn't seem too great, but an LO Close Combat with this spread is guaranteed to OHKO standard 116 / 36 Scraggy. It can also utilize Vacuum Wave and Hyper Voice, while also being able to scout with Fake Out.

I'm running out of time, so I'll leave it here for now. Comments or suggestions are appreciated, and I'll update this later.
Base Stats: 60/35/70/65/60/65 - 355 BST

PS: 50.8995 SS: 88.2326 PT: 89.8389 ST: 78.9829 BSR: 139.7232
ODB: -.7514 (Biased toward Defense) PSB: -3.8785 (Moderately Biased toward Special)

No investment stats: 22/10/13/13/12/13
Offensive: Timid; 36 HP, 236 SpA, 236 Spd; EVs unaffected by HP Ice; Gives 23/9/13/16/12/17, giving it similar offensive power to Houndour stat-wise (one less SpA point and the same speed). However, it has far lower base power on its attacks, and far worse super effective coverage than Houndour, and would likely not carry a life orb.

  • Hidden Power Ice vs Defensive Gligar (76 HP, 76 SpD) - 21-25 - A guaranteed ohko after Stealth Rock, and possible before. It cannot heal with roost on average.
  • Aura Sphere vs Eviolite Scraggy - 19-22 - A small chance for a ohko after stealth rock. It has a 50% chance to ohko with modest, and with a life orb and timid Scraggy has a very small chance of living Aura Sphere without rocks. I feel that Scraggy should be a check to Minihawk (it can DD and then ohko with Drain Punch), so I tried to avoid the ohko on Scraggy, while also allowing Minihawk to bypass Scraggy, at the cost of a speed point or a significant amount of bulk.
  • Scrappy Aura Sphere vs Offensive Misdreavus - 15-17 - Never a ohko. Does not 2hko on average if Misdreavus has an Oran Berry, however it's almost guaranteed to 2hko with Stealth Rock support. However, Misdreavus can ohko non-eviolite versions with psychic and has a shot to ohko with hidden power fighting after stealth rock, and it also outspeeds. Eviolite Minihawk is solidly 2hkoed by hidden power fighting (56% minimum).
  • Hyper Voice vs Slowpoke - 11-13 - Never 2hkoes. Though unlikely, slowpoke can ohko Minihawk with Psychic in return with Stealth Rock support.
Defensive: Timid; 196 HP, 40 Def, 76 SpA, 116 SpD, 76 Spe; Accounts for a 30 Defense IV for Hidden Power Ice, but it doesn't affect the actual stats (it has enough leftover evs). 25/9/14/14/14/15 Stats, giving it 25/21/21 defenses after Eviolite is applied. The defenses are similar to Bulky Misdreavus (24/21/22 after Eviolite, assuming a spread with max speed), however, it doesn't have Will-o-Wisp, its immunity is far less useful than any of Misdreavus', and its offenses and speed are all lower. Additionally, its weaknesses are way more easily accessable than Misdreavus', so while its defenses are solid, they will be far from unbreakable.

  • Timburr Drain Punch - 18-21 - Doesn't quite ko, but it underspeeds you and can heal off any damage you do to it. Mach Punch ohkoes next turn.
  • Taillow Brave Bird before Guts - 23-27 - An example of a revenge killer, and a weak one at that.
  • Slowpoke Psychic - 16-19 - A clean 2hko. Zen Headbutt also always 2hkoes.
  • Timid Scarf Chinchou Hydro Pump - 11-13 - A shot at a 2hko. Modest 2hkoes most of the time.
Minihawk lacks coverage moves or stat up moves, and can't abuse status. It has a glaring weakness to fighting attacks, the best and most common type in Little Cup. Though it has a great ability in Prankster, it can't effectively use it, as it then loses coverage against ghosts. To compensate for its shortfalls, I gave it enough SpA so that it can hit a lot of stuff pretty hard and enough bulk to live a hit or two, while still remaining counterable/checkable. The abundance of fighting types and its good, not great speed means that it won't be sweeping anything any time soon, as it is easy to revenge and even with perfect prediction is has effective counters.
Here's our CAP so far:
Name: Tomohawk
Typing: Flying / Fighting
Base Stats: 105 HP / 60 Atk / 90 Def / 115 SpA / 80 SpD / 85 Spe
Abilities: Intimidate / Prankster
Pre-Evos: One

Here's our pre-evo so far:
Typing: Normal / Fighting
Abilities: Scrappy / Prankster
 
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