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Celebi (Baton Pass Update) (QC 2/3) (GP 0/2)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Kingler12345, Aug 30, 2013.

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  1. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    [​IMG]QC approved: 2/3(PK Gaming, alexwolf)
    [​IMG]
    GP approved: 0/2()

    First dibs on celebi :)
    tell me if i should do anything

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Nasty Plot / Calm Mind
    move 4: Giga Drain / Psychic / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 192 SpD / 64 Spe



    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set acts a bit like the specially defensive set, except it is played differently. While it still checks rain teams, this variant of celebi focuses on passing stat boosts or Substitutes to its team members to help facilitate a sweep. This variant of Celebi can take advantage of its great typing to force out many common threats in the metagame such as Rotom-Wash, Breloom, Gliscor lacking taunt, and Keldeo lacking HP bug and setting up on them, one of the main advantages it has over Mew, a pokemon used commonly for Baton Pass.</p>

    <p>Recover is mandatory on this set as it is meant to act as a rain check as well. Psychic and giga drain are reliable STAB moves which celebi can use with their own uses. Alternatively, substitute can be used to baton pass to frail teammates. A variety of moves can be passed. Nasty Plot is the best, as it can pass an instant +2 boost to threatening special wallbreakers or sweepers such as Keldeo. Calm Mind is more defensively useful for Celebi as it can help it sponge common special hits even better, and can aid further setup from the reciever.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A specially defensive spread is required for dealing with a variety of special attacks, especially rain boosted water-type moves, which helps it function as a rain check. It is a great supporter for offensive teams that don't want a defensive dead weight to cover. The 64 Speed EVs let Celebi outspeed max speed Scizor and Gothitelle, which can trap and KO Celebi with pursuit and Signal Beam respectively. Especially with calm mind, even more Speed can be useful to help outspeed rain threats and boost with Calm Mind to absorb their attacks easily.

    <p>As far as alternative baton passing moves go, moves like swords dance are usable to pass to physically based threats like Terrakion and Garchomp, which also appreciate Substitute. However, Swords Dance is very inferior to Nasty Plot or Calm Mind as it prevents Celebi from using Giga Drain and Psychic, its two best STAB moves. Moves like Earth Power and Magic Coat are usable to deal with threats to Celebi like fire types, most notably Heatran, and Celebi, respectively. On non-sand teams, Tanga Berry is an interesting option to survive Expert Belt Keldeo's Hidden Power Bug and deal huge damage back with Giga Drain, though most of the time Celebi prefers Leftovers recovery.</p>

    <p>Partners that can make use of Nasty Plot include Life Orb and scarfed Keldeo, speedy Thundurus-T, Alakazam, Analytic Life Orb Starmie, specially-based mixed Kyurem-Black, Life Orb Latios, and Tornadus. Heatran makes for an exceptionally great partner due to being specially based and its amazing synergy with Celebi and Espeon or Xatu can prevent roar phazing due to magic bounce, the former having access to stored power, making amazing use of the Nasty Plot boost, making them great partners as well. Garchomp, Landorus-T, Terrakion, and other speedy physical attackers make for decent choices to baton pass Swords Dance, many of them sporting decent synergy with Celebi.</p>
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  2. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Uh, this had got QC checks earlier, should i reset it to zero(confused)?
  3. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    No, it still has 2 QC checks. Now you just have to write the actual prose, and then QC will look it over and give it its final check.
  4. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Yeah, just write this up, and we can do all the hot action later.
  5. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Mention Perish Song somewhere (and U-turn it takes more skill to utilize but it can certainly work over BP). Mention how you can replace a boosting move (e.g. CM or NP) for an additional coverage move (HP Fire / Psychic / Thunder Wave / Perish Song / Earth Power / Stealth Rock / Heal Bell). Most of these moves go to AC but need mention since each has merit.

    With that, start writing! Ill send an Amateur Check if I get time once you finish!

    GL
  6. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    @Shurtugal aren't you just making this the Specially Defensive set onsite lol

    On a more serious note, I feel the need to object to your first suggestion, as Perish Song and U-turn are completely counterproductive on a boosting defensive set with Baton Pass for obvious reasons. If you really wanted to use those moves, use the Specially Defensive set on-site without compromising precious moveslots. EDIT: On second thought I need to object to all the suggestions you mentioned, since the point of this set is to tank attacks WHILE passing special attack boosts to other teammates and escape its counters. Dilly-dallying with other coverage moves isn't gonna cut it, quite frankly.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2013
    Soul Fly, Jukain and Shurtugal like this.
  7. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    I thought this wasn't gonna be merged with the specially defensive one? Isn't it standalone set? Imo it would look messy combining both.
    Also two free QC checks ftw
    I just read accidental greead's post
    Also i'll write this up later.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2013
  8. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Yeah sorry about that. SpD Cele and BP Cele work so similarly that I sometimes find it hard to tell the difference, but yeah most my changes are better on the SpD set not the BP so please don't mind those.

    Although, shouldn't sub be a third slash instead of AC? I understand SD as AC but Sub is just as viable as CM or NP if not better since you can pass to both SpA and Phy oriented partners alike. I feel its better than AC, but if its too many slashes than I get it.

    Tbh in my OP I thought this was a revamp and that BP was being merged so sorry for my ignorance.
  9. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Yeah okay, understood, it's quite alright.

    I can also agree with the Substitute slash, though I'll have to discuss it with a couple of dudes before making the final QC check.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Agreeing with Sub being slashed second or third too.
  11. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Just edited it and saw this -_- removing sub from AC, putting it in SC and slashing it. Which option should it be?
    EDIT- Added the shit, also adding the members who QC approved the original one. Glad OU has more active QC members than LC lol.
    Edit2- Uh the thread is deleted, anyone know who had approved it??
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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  13. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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  14. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Just okay so far. Be sure to capitalize all Pokemon and move names, and space the paragraphs out like others would in their analyses, sorta like this:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    Do this so it's easier to read, and thus easier for us to go and QC!
  15. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Oops, forgot that. Was on a mobile device and an still now, editing it properly later :3
  16. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Did the changes, might need caps check somewhere but I guess GP might do that.
    QC check pls
    No QC checks ;~; you guys are making me sad
    loljk
    but srsly pls QC check this @Jukain
    or @AccidentalGreed w/e
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
  17. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    In the first paragraph, mention that Celebi can beat some of those "walls" you mentioned by itself, simply by boosting the power of its Psychic and Giga Drain.

    In the second paragraph, remove that mention about Celebi not making use of Sub due to Natural Cure, since it's pretty much common sense/unnecessary info, and, at the same time, Celebi CAN make use of it to avoid Poison, but leave that unmentioned.

    Additionally, in the third paragraph, please edit to this:

    You also REALLY need to expand the list of teammates in the last paragraph. What problems does this Celebi have? What teammates in particular helps it do its job? One thing that comes on top of my head is Roar Heatran, amongst other counters, so be sure to cover them as well.

    Also, I emphasize, you are not a Pokemon. Therefore, you aren't weak to Signal Beam. Be sure to edit the analysis and place the Pokemon as the subject.

    That's all for now. Other QC members can weigh in on this, if they want.
  18. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Oops yeah. Editing that in a bit. Thinking of good special attackers to receive the NP boost too. Ty
  19. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Added a few partners in the sets and fixed more capitalization errors.
  20. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    This explanation does not cover the set's true nature. It is essentially a specially defensive Celebi that can support teammates with their sweeps. It takes advantage of Pokemon it can typically handle well, like Breloom, Keldeo, and Rotom-W, to do so. You don't emphasize any of this. It is a great supporter for offensive teams that don't want a defensive dead weight to cover. Please talk about these things.
  21. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Alright, so while I am not on the GP team, I'd like to go over and copy / edit your work and make some personal corrections.

    IMO, the moves should be:

    Baton Pass
    Recover
    Nasty Plot / Substitute / Calm Mind
    Giga Drain / Psychic / Hidden Power [Fire]

    Why is Recover on the fourth slot when it's stated that it's "mandatory" for this set? Just some concerns. Let me get to the edits:


    edits (open)

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set Baton Pass Celebi acts a bit like similar to SpD Celebi, except it is played differently BP Celebi can escape Pursuit trappers much more efficiently and it can pass on boosted stats to partners. While it still both Celebi sets can check rain teams, this variant of celebi Baton Pass Celebi focuses on passing stat boosts to it's team members to help facilitate a sweeps., as well as escaping Pursuit trappers with ease; W whereas the specially defensive variant SpD Celebi is easily walled due to its poor coverage, this set can beat those walls by baton passing these boosts to an appropriate teammate has a much harder time escaping Pursuit trappers and cannot support an offensive team nearly as well as BP Celebi can. BP Celebi is marginally better than SpD Celebi for offensive teams and has a great niche in checking Keldeo, Breloom, and Rotom-W. (Shurtugal: SpD Celebi is a wall so I don't like saying "SpD Celebi is easily walled" since it isn't supposed to muscle through anything; if you wanted to do that you could just use LO NP Celebi. The crucial differences between SpD Celebi and BP Celebi is really BP Celebi's ability to escape Pursuit trapping with a slight mention of passing boosts. Ergo, this is why I was confused the last time: both Celebi sets are so strikingly similar that it's hard to pinpoint the differences, but once you know them you should captalize on them. The way I changed your wording should reflect that! :))</p>

    <p>Recover is mandatory on this set as it is meant to act as a rain check as well to preserve BP Celebi's defensive capabilities in checking Keldeo and Rain Archetypes. Psychic and giga drain Giga Drain are reliable STAB moves that each have their own niche. which celebi can use with their own uses. Alternatively, substitute can be used to baton pass to frail teammates though celebi cannot make any use of it due to natural cure. A variety of moves can be passed:. Nasty Plot is the best(Shurtugal: That's Subjective!), is the most commonly used, as it can pass an instant +2 boosts to threatening special wallbreakers or sweepers such as Keldeo. Calm Mind is more defensively useful for Celebi, as it can help it sponge common special hits attacks even better, and can aid further further aid setup from the reciever. Additionally, Substitute can be used over Nasty Plot or Calm Mind to pass to either physically or specially based sweepers or wallbreakers, usually offering the recipient a free turn of set up or a free turn of wallbreaking.

    The effort values are straightforward: 32 speed investment allows Celebi to escape Pursuit from CB Scizor and CB Tyranitar, while the rest of the effort values are invested in bulk to help Celebi function as a SpD BP Pivot.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A specially defensive spread is required for dealing with a variety of special attacks, especially rain boosted water-type moves, which helps it function as a rain check. More speed investment are recommended(Shurtugal: if they were it wouldn't be in AC!) can be used as an alternative to outspeed , as you need to move before scizor Scizor or tyranitar Tyranitar in order to escape from pursuit. 32 Speed EVs let Celebi outrun all Tyranitar, while By running 64 speed investment, will let BP Celebi can outrun max speed scizor SD Scizor and Shadow Tag Gothitelle and escape from Pursuit or Signal Beam respectively with Baton Pass. (Shurtugal: The functions of the primary EV spread should be explained above, while the alternative EV spreads should be mentioned here...! If I am not mistaken, that is...) Especially with calm mind The Calm Mind variant of BP Celebi can make use of even more speed investment, as it can be used to help outspeed rain threats and boost with calm mind to absorb their attacks easily.

    <p>As far as alternative Baton Passing moves go, moves like Swords Dance are usable to pass to physically based threats like Cloyster, Terrakion, Toxicroak, Conkeldurr, Mamoswine, Kyurem-B and Garchomp, many of which also appreciate Substitute. Keep in mind that Swords Dance Celebi will want Careful nature in place of Calm, with it's choices of STABs varying between Seed Bomb and Zen Headbutt. Hidden Power Fire is usable on any set to deal with Scizor, which is annoying to deal with as it can U-Turn out of the recipient while OHKOing Celebi otherwise.</p>

    <p>Partners that can make use of Nasty Plot include bulky Keldeo, Thundurus-T, Choiced Specs Politoed, Alakazam, Offensive Trick Room Reuniclus, Starmie, while Scizor, Kyurem-B, Garchomp, Lucario, Conkeldurr, Dragonite and Mamoswine make for decent choices options to Baton Pass Swords Dance, many of them sporting decent synergy with Celebi.</p>


    Copy / Paste changes (open)

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Baton Pass Celebi acts similar to SpD Celebi, except BP Celebi can escape Pursuit trappers much more efficiently and it can pass on boosted stats to partners. While both Celebi sets can check rain teams, Baton Pass Celebi focuses on passing stat boosts to it's team to help facilitate sweeps, as well as escaping Pursuit trappers with ease; whereas SpD Celebi has a much harder time escaping Pursuit trappers and cannot support an offensive team nearly as well as BP Celebi can. BP Celebi is marginally better than SpD Celebi for offensive teams and has a great niche in checking Keldeo, Breloom, and Rotom-W.</p>

    <p>Recover is mandatory to preserve BP Celebi's defensive capabilities in checking Keldeo and Rain Archetypes. Psychic and Giga Drain are reliable STAB moves that each have their own niche. A variety of moves can be passed: Nasty Plot is the most commonly used, as it can pass instant +2 boosts to threatening special wallbreakers or sweepers such as Keldeo. Calm Mind is more defensively useful for Celebi, as it can help it sponge common special attacks even better, and can further aid setup from the receiver. Additionally, Substitute can be used over Nasty Plot or Calm Mind to pass to either physically or specially based sweepers or wallbreakers, usually offering the recipient a free turn of set up or a free turn of wallbreaking.

    The effort values are straightforward: 32 speed investment allows Celebi to escape Pursuit from CB Scizor and CB Tyranitar, while the rest of the effort values are invested in bulk to help Celebi function as a SpD BP Pivot.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A specially defensive spread is required for dealing with a variety of special attacks, especially rain boosted water-type moves, which helps it function as a rain check. More speed investment can be used as an alternative to outspeed Scizor or Tyranitar in order to escape from pursuit. By running 64 speed investment,BP Celebi can outrun SD Scizor and Shadow Tag Gothitelle and escape from Pursuit or Signal Beam respectively with Baton Pass. The Calm Mind variant of BP Celebi can make use of even more speed investment, as it can be used to outspeed rain threats and boost with calm mind to absorb their attacks easily.

    <p>As far as alternative Baton Passing moves go, moves like Swords Dance are usable to pass to physically based threats like Terrakion, Toxicroak, Conkeldurr, Mamoswine, Kyurem-B and Garchomp, many of which also appreciate Substitute. Keep in mind that Swords Dance Celebi will want Careful nature in place of Calm, with it's choices of STABs varying between Seed Bomb and Zen Headbutt. Hidden Power Fire is usable on any set to deal with Scizor, which is annoying to deal with as it can U-Turn out of the recipient while OHKOing Celebi otherwise.</p>

    <p>Partners that can make use of Nasty Plot include bulky Keldeo, Thundurus-T, Choiced Politoed, Alakazam, Offensive Trick Room Reuniclus, Starmie, while Scizor, Kyurem-B, Garchomp, Lucario, Conkeldurr, Dragonite and Mamoswine make decent options to Baton Pass Swords Dance, many of them sporting decent synergy with Celebi.</p>



    Hope this helps!
  22. sirndpt

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    can't really thoroughly look through @Shurtugal's amateur gp check rn, but just wanted to leave a note that all the acronyms should be written out in full (bp to Baton Pass, spd to Specially Defensive, cb to Choice Band, sd to Swords Dance, etc)
  23. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    Wait, has this already gotten the 3rd QC check? If not, GP / amchecks shouldn't be happening, as something(s) could change due to the check.
  24. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    I'd like to do the last QC and GP on this, but in any case, I don't approve of Shurtugal's changes.

    Is there a reason not to run 64 Speed EVs? If you don't lose significant bulk, I'd like to see them as the main option, and to hell with 32 EVs.

    AC Tanga Berry please for non-sand (basically rain) teams. The loss of Leftovers is compensated for by surviving E-Belt Keldeo's HP Bug with ease.

    SD is pretty bad (I've used it before, NP is a million times better -- SD Celebi's STABs suck, and it hits even less hard). I want you to note how much less useful it is, and how it makes you an inferior Celebi.

    Not a fan of this list. The listed NP targets should be LO Keldeo, speedy Thundurus-T, Alakazam, Analytic LO Starmie, specially-based mixed Kyurem-B, LO Latios, and Tornadus. Be specific and pick the right Pokemon! The Pokemon you list for SD are entirely random it seems. Garchomp, Landorus-T, Terrakion, and other speedy physical attackers.

    I will QC/GP after these changes and the ones in my other post.
  25. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Scarf Keldeo and Torn are amazing partners. Ill go over individual things instead since I seem to be bad at GPing things so I can make myself more clear and express concern later through nitpicking at it when off ipod.

    SD Cele has a niche but the user above me is right it's not that great. I still think Sub should be slashed before CM and CM gets third slash on third slot. Recover should move to move slot 2 since you can't really replace it so its mandatory.
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