while this does counter it, its a waste of a moveslot on snorlax to counter one pokemon, IMO. With his popular sets (curse and resttalk) he already seems to have to few slots for his moves. Obviously curse set can't afford to use body slam as its only attacking move, and rest talk can't either.
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Chandelure
- Thread starter tennisace
- Start date
RestTalk is kind of a gimmick. I've seen it on Heatrans and lol'd after OHKOing them with Earthquakes. I've used it on Milotic and watched its five-second lifespan when using RestTalk.
Why should Snorlax be relegated to a gimmick, hm? He can Whirlwind something, then proceed to pwn. ChestoRest is optimal for Snorlax, I think, if you want to do anything with Sleep.
Why should Snorlax be relegated to a gimmick, hm? He can Whirlwind something, then proceed to pwn. ChestoRest is optimal for Snorlax, I think, if you want to do anything with Sleep.
STILL NOT A COUNTER. a counter must switch in safely and the problem to that is you can switch. revenging at best and scarf tar does indeed revenge him unless he is slower than him... heatran also can take bothe stabs and run earthpower but shanderaa can switch
rest talk isnt a gimmick... but yeah on heatran it seems dumb... but suicune is a force to be reckoned with when it uses that
We need to stop talking counters, there is no real counter for a mon with Shadow Tag. A counter can switch in and immediately force the opponent out. You can't switch in on Shanderaa. The best you can do is revenge it, and for that the best mon for the job is a pursuiter, Tyranitar is probably the most reliable because it will take low amounts of damage from Shand's STABs, and Pursuit trap it. Most people will run Scarfderaa IMO, so HP Fighting is not an issue. If they are running another set Tyranitar outspeeds them with a Scarf, and you will be able to tell they aren't scarfed from either Lefties after they take SR damage, or Life Orb when they trap and kill one of your pokes.
YES LISTEN TO THIS. I tried to say this already but it seems to have been ignored
And proceeds to fail to OHKO Shanderaa when it stays in (even with no bulk investment), gets burned or HP fighting'd, and Shanderaa has taken out 2 Pokemon (a burned TTar is utterly useless, especially with a scarf) since it is in the process of being revenge killed. A Pokemon that can almost guarantee 2 KOs is ridiculously powerful.
Honestly, I'm not even sure if Scarf Shanderaa is the smartest option. It's the best at revenging but bulky Shanderaa can screw up TWO Pokemon if pulled off correctly.
1. Any Pokemon with Flash Fire, especially Heatran and Houndoom = Shanderaa is screwed
2. Priority Aqua Jets boosted not only by STABs, but by rain, Choice Bands/Life Orbs/Expert Belts, and supereffectiveness = Shanderaa is screwed.
3. Shanderaa v. Shanderaa = faster Shanderaa wins, hopefully it's yours.
4. Shanderaa v. Wobbuffet = Shanderaa is screwed because of Mirror Coat.
5. Earthquakes / Magnitudes = Shanderaa is screwed. It doesn't even get Magnet Rise to help its case.
6. Stealth Rock promoting OHKOs from other Pokemon = Shanderaa is screwed.
7. Water Pokemon now carrying Boiling Water = Shanderaa is totally screwed.
8. Tyranitar = Shanderaa might be able to handle it, but it can blast almost all of its health down. Let's also not forget that residual damage that Sandstorm does.
9. Anything carrying Pursuit not named Scizor = Shanderaa is screwed..
You lose, good day sir.
Fake scarf with a colbur berry and stay in on ttar and blow him apart with HP:fighting
Dam... hes right just did math. 57.5% - 67.4% damge to an absolutely no ev invested shanderaa... which means an aqua jet would do similarly.... meaning even with sr damage shanderaa takes the hit without the auto OHKO.
Johnny your one smart dude... always assumed instant death for shanderaa
not exactly tue...
1.. hp fight
2 can take for maybe 70% of health and kill if cm boosted
3 switch pusuit... mute point
4 switch or nitro charge
5 switch
6 ..... ok got me here but shanderaa doesnt have gengar defenses
7... surf is scarier
8. hp fight or switch
9 pursuit from ttar scarfed can only do 70% if not switched
..... not exactly best arguements for sayin shanderaa is screwed(btw original arguement is simply about u using word counter. a counter needs to switch into shanderaa which is nearly impossible so all arguements u made make u seem dumb. all are revenging strategies.)
Does anyone know if like, you switched a pokemon in that had Trace, would it trap Shadow Tag Shandera? I mean, it's not like the Wobuffet scenario where neither one can actually do anything.
shadow tag allows other shadow taggers to switch out.
Smogon quote
Shadow Tag
Enemy Pokémon cannot switch out unless they have the ability Shadow Tag. Pokémon can also escape by using U-turn or Baton Pass, or by holding the item Shed Shell.
so arena trap traps shanderaa so ur best bet would be dugtrio
Let me also mention Agirudaa outspeeding it, Guard Swapping its bad defenses with Shanderaa's defenses, and then killing it with Hidden Power Water. Then what? Not exactly a revenge kill is it?
yeah but all of this depend on being switched into this thing. which you seem to fail to realize you cant do...plus a revenge killling shanderaa wouldnt outspeed with scarf,but shandera still kill with all moves even after guard swapping(also doesnt die to hp water by agirudaa).
LAWYERED!!
That's the Gen IV definition though, we don't know if it's changed, since the only pokemon that got it before was Wobbuffet, who could do nothing.
valid point hmm. cant test it though sorry, but im assuming it will still work the same
None of this matters. It gets to choose what to switch in on, trap, and kill. You're completely helpless once it comes in to kill your Pokemon - even suggesting a counter is pointless because you can't switch.
As for U-Turn: Again, it gets to choose what to switch in on. No good player would switch Shanderaa into something like CB Scizor or CS Flygon which might very well switch out using U-Turn. Again, it has to choice to pick what it wants to switch in on, and you don't have the choice to switch out.
lol yeah I keep telling him and he still keeps arguing, its hilarious
1. http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=4336084
2. Ad hominem isn't helping you any. Just so it is known.
3. Agirudaa doesn't need a Scarf to outspeed Shanderaa, as it already has 145 base Speed and Timid nature to boost that Speed. kek.
sorry changed post you quoted so fun fact isnt relevent, but none of them minus shed shell begin to counter shanderaa. and speed thing i realized so i changed post might want to look at it again. plus look up definition of counter for pokemon cause ur making yourself look like a moron who just wants to get off topic......
EUREKA. no one is this ignorant. your just getting people to call u a moron on purpose aren't you? is this your cry for attention?
@Johnny That's like saying Gengar beats Tyranitar because it can run Will-O-Wisp or Focus Blast.
Basically you have two options: switch or stay in. If you switch you either die to pursuit or your switch-in will have to take a STAB SE or Crunch to the face. If you stay in, you either die to SE or Crunch or you manage to burn T-tar after taking massive damage from Pursuit. So 50% you die, 25% one of your mons takes a hit from a T-tar to the face, 25% you successfully render T-Tar useless, in exchange for probably being revenged.
@Butterfree Those are not counters, they are checks at best.
1. You can switch out of Heatran who fails to nab a Flash Fire, because you can't switch in on Shanderaa.
2. Sure there are pokes with Aqua Jet, what is keeping you from switching out to something like Suicune? And by this logic Mence is rendered useless by Ice Shard, which we know is not true.
3. Why exactly would anyone switch their Shand in on yours. Like you said it's a speed tie, so 50% they win, 50% they just lost a major team member for no reason.
4. Nothing new here, just Wobbuffet doing its job (?)
5. So you switch out to come back later.
6. I don't get it, if you mean SR helps pokemon by turning 2HKOs into OHKOs the exact same can be said of any offensive pokemon, including Shand.
7. Shanderaa doesn't really care about being burned, and why is it staying in on a water type?
8. I was just saying that T-tar was a good revenger for Shand, here you're just supporting my point.
9. Again supporting my point. Pursuiters can reliably kill Shanderaa.
Basically you have two options: switch or stay in. If you switch you either die to pursuit or your switch-in will have to take a STAB SE or Crunch to the face. If you stay in, you either die to SE or Crunch or you manage to burn T-tar after taking massive damage from Pursuit. So 50% you die, 25% one of your mons takes a hit from a T-tar to the face, 25% you successfully render T-Tar useless, in exchange for probably being revenged.
@Butterfree Those are not counters, they are checks at best.
1. You can switch out of Heatran who fails to nab a Flash Fire, because you can't switch in on Shanderaa.
2. Sure there are pokes with Aqua Jet, what is keeping you from switching out to something like Suicune? And by this logic Mence is rendered useless by Ice Shard, which we know is not true.
3. Why exactly would anyone switch their Shand in on yours. Like you said it's a speed tie, so 50% they win, 50% they just lost a major team member for no reason.
4. Nothing new here, just Wobbuffet doing its job (?)
5. So you switch out to come back later.
6. I don't get it, if you mean SR helps pokemon by turning 2HKOs into OHKOs the exact same can be said of any offensive pokemon, including Shand.
7. Shanderaa doesn't really care about being burned, and why is it staying in on a water type?
8. I was just saying that T-tar was a good revenger for Shand, here you're just supporting my point.
9. Again supporting my point. Pursuiters can reliably kill Shanderaa.
Yeah agreed, your smart, but what you fail to realize is the stupidity of others... Butterfree is just Being Ignorant... and a stereotyped american(I'm also american just less stereotyped).
PS totally thought that objection clip was hilarious(but dont trust butterfree so now scanning computer for viruses)
Hey guise, instead of arguing the same thing over again for 9 pages, why not speak about possible sets and teammates for a Flash Fire Shan?
As it's been stated, it's a "less bulky, more offensive" heatran. I can't think of a single poke to resist all SE types against Shan, but Empoleon seems like a decent choice. It resists 4/5 of Shandy's weaknesses (all except Ground). It can support with them Stealth Rocks (from Gen IV), lure Fighting-type moves for Shan, and hit with STAB SE surf/hydro pump other pokemon that resist Shan's STAB, such as Heatran, Houndoom, or T-Tar.
As it's been stated, it's a "less bulky, more offensive" heatran. I can't think of a single poke to resist all SE types against Shan, but Empoleon seems like a decent choice. It resists 4/5 of Shandy's weaknesses (all except Ground). It can support with them Stealth Rocks (from Gen IV), lure Fighting-type moves for Shan, and hit with STAB SE surf/hydro pump other pokemon that resist Shan's STAB, such as Heatran, Houndoom, or T-Tar.