Hydreigon can learn dragon pulse and pass it down to Charmander.
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Pokémon Charizard
- Thread starter X5Dragon
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Care to explain what you mean by this? Zard X CAN get Outrage and Dragon Dance, both by breeding, since Haxorus is available in Gen 6 without Pokebank, I have one on my team, I'm looking at it right now.
Okay. Thank you.
Oh, I was probably confusing his move pool with Tyrantrum's for a minute, my bad. So that makes him better than I thought he was, though I'm still not sure if it's enough to outclass Yzard (Speaking objectively of course, as if you were building your teams around them, I know they fill different roles on a team).
Personally I'd still use Dragon Claw, since you've already got a 120 STAB in Flare Blitz that isn't as risky as Outrage. If you get a DD and a Flash Firer switches in on you to absorb your Flare Blitz, it's going to take some guts (or an Air Balloon) for them to stay in and risk an Earthquake. On the other hand, Outrage invites stuff like Azumarill and Mawille (with powerful priority) and steel types in general. If you have both, every time you're going to use a STAB move, you'll have to consider either recoil damage or the chance of getting locked on Outrage. That's not a good situation. Dragon Claw offers a solid STAB with no drawbacks for dragons and finishing off stuff and, you can always resort for Flare Blitz for power or coverage. Having two 120 STABs might be good for a late game sweep, but other than that, I think Dragon Claw complements Flare Blitz better.
That's the thing though: Y does need a set up. He needs to increase his speed at some point in the battle, and he needs to be set up every time he switches if your opponent is persistent about SR's. If your weather gets canceled by another weather-mon, you might need to switch in and out again, thus killing any speed boosts and subjecting himself back to the danger of possible SR's.
Y does get the benefit of helping sun teams, though. He doesn't need all that much support for those kind of teams, but if you're just focusing on a strong team that just runs Charizard, I feel like X is a little easier to rely on in the grand scheme. Char Y is a great nuke, though. Both are dangerous, especially when you get a speed increase off them.
And Char X does get Outrage. So he's already that dangerous, but I'm not sure about using it entirely, unless you use both Claw and Outrage and just forget earthquake (Since you do have Flare Blitz).
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Seeing some folks trying to sell Char X short is a big mistake in the long run. This thing is, hands down, the salamence older players are familiar with from gen's 3, and 4 with it's abilities/stat's/set's, but better because of it's typing. Char X, by no means, REQUIRES setup in anyway(outside of his own mega-evolution like Y). In fact, he can easily come off wall-breaking things freely with it's mixed attacking stats without needing a DD. Same goes for the physically inclined set that can just outright murder things with unboosted Flare Blitz, securing late game sweeps without the need to DD before hand in several instances. that's just some of the sheer power it has. I've not only been running a mixed DD set with a VAST amount of success, but been landing just as many kills as the physically inclined sets(granted, I still refuse to invest into Sp.Atk and run 252/252 Atk/speed, but having overheat has more then made up for the lack of investments with raw power similar to Draco Meteor despite the 10BP difference). Several of those kills result from zero boosting prior to the KO meaning that it can effectively, with just 3 coverage moves in Dragon Claw/EQ/Overheat, double as a late-game sweeper and wall-breaker which is very similar to what mence use to do prior to it receiving moxie.
In terms of outclassing, ZardY, it should be no discussion: the two are entirely different sides of the spectrum, and will NEVER fall under the same classifications because of the sheer dynamic differences the two bring to the table. Some one made a very real comparison to how the two could be treated, and I remember them mentioning salamance in terms of Char X which is exactly how I feel. In terms with Char Y, I feel it works just as stupidly good as Char X but with a very special offensive-oriented focus/support.
In terms of outclassing, ZardY, it should be no discussion: the two are entirely different sides of the spectrum, and will NEVER fall under the same classifications because of the sheer dynamic differences the two bring to the table. Some one made a very real comparison to how the two could be treated, and I remember them mentioning salamance in terms of Char X which is exactly how I feel. In terms with Char Y, I feel it works just as stupidly good as Char X but with a very special offensive-oriented focus/support.
I don't get why people think that SR only applies to Yzard, or somehow applies to him more. Both need to get rid of it before the switch in. And then if it gets set up again and you have to switch in again, well it's either going to take 25% or 50%, both of which are enough to allow most pokemon to OHKO you, or at least severely hurt you and prevent further setups without support. Just because Xzard takes less damage doesn't mean it's that much more safe, you'd want to avoid that in all cases. .-.
And the only Weather mons that scare him are Tyranitar and Hippodon mostly, maybe Politoed. All of which tend to scare Xzard to switch out as well, I'd think. Losing the weather isn't a huge deal when you planned on switching out to save your tail anyway.
+1 252 Atk Draco Plate Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 204-240 (53.12 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(Defensive)
+1 252 Atk Draco Plate Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Politoed: 297-351 (77.34 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(Specs)
252 Atk Draco Plate Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Politoed: 198-234 (51.56 - 60.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(Specs)
+1 252 Atk Charizard Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 302-356 (78.23 - 92.22%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock(Banded Tar)
252 Atk Charizard Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 202-238 (52.33 - 61.65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(Banded Tar)
+1 252 Atk Charizard Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 302-356 (74.75 - 88.11%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock(Support Tar)
252 Atk Charizard Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 202-238 (50 - 58.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock(Support Tar)
+1 252 Atk Charizard Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 302-356 (88.3 - 104.09%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock(scarf'd Tar)
4 SpA Charizard Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 229-271 (54.52 - 64.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock<-This is taking into account Overheats BP nerf to 130.
+1 252 Atk Draco Plate Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 204-240 (48.57 - 57.14%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock(mixed Hippo)
Those stats are all from my Mixed DD Char X set using Naive nature with Max attack/speed EV's, and only 4 Sp.Atk EV's. They have to be either Choiced, and/or have SR up to be able to OHKO him in return(or at least have a chance with their respective stabs). None of them can reliably switch in on an attack with out being put in K.O range in the process. Even with out a boost he can still 2HKO the scarier sets making switching in on him even harder. You also have to take into account his newly found 111 base defense which helps tremendously against Tar, and Hippo.
Honestly, I'd say he's not vary afraid.
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Just for clarification, is Draco Plate used for calculating the contribution Tough Claws would give to the damage?
Also, I do think that the Hippo does do well against Charizard. From my calculations, the hippo 2HKOs Charizard:
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Charizard: 218-258 (73.15 - 86.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO with 81% to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
His SR weakness is still a very crippling weakness - especially since he might be taking 50% on his initial switch in to Mega Evolve. This makes him very easy to revenge kill and threaten back. However, I agree that its best to not write him off. After all, Volcarona saw play and we're getting more ways to clear hazards from the field.
This is all assuming of course that when the opponent switches out, you will have picked exactly the right move to counter whatever was coming in. Flareblitz would be resisted on all 3 of them were you to use it. Earthquake resisted on 2 of them. Some calcs also assume that you already set up prior to them switching out... so what did they switch to a Ferrothorn, decide that was stupid and then switched to one of these? Doubt it, most situations would go: Xzard enters on something to force switch, Xzard uses DD while opponent switches to one of those 3, and then (I don't know the calcs for the damage here but I assume) a possible OHKO with earthquake while you use a move that could only 2HKO them.
I'm not saying that Xzard is bad or anything, but people are acting like so many things counter Yzard when they counter or hurt Xzard badly as well. It's just a double standard that I've been seeing a lot and it annoys me.
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Yes Draco is used to calc the tough claws boost. It gives the 20% boost as calc'd.
Also, I mentioned that in order for those three to OHKO him they would need to be Choiced, and/or SR needed to be up which was towards Hippo. In any case, if your running either Charizard your going to want SR off the field as often as possible. This is one of those cases where you'll want SR off the field to improve his odds. Hippo still wouldn't want to switch in on a boosted attack making it better for him to come in after a mon's been KO'd. I give Hippo much more credit then the other two though being a much better check(and counter in the physical sets case).
Those calcs also have unboosted calcs, which is what I think your failing to realize. He doesn't HAVE to DD to do that kind of damage. He still hits two of those mons for massive damage, and this relates back to the fact that he is an amazing wall-breaker and sweeper in one like Mence.
None of my calcs use Flare Blitz's either, and anything that resist EQ(outside of Hippo) still gets put in K.O range by the next appropriate coverage move/stab. EQ still does 35-42% damage to Specs Toad if it decides to switch in on the EQ.
And Overheat is a 2HKO dude(with, or without SR):
0 SpA Charizard Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 246-291 (58.57 - 69.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 0 SpA Charizard Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 124-147 (29.52 - 35%)
0 SpA Charizard Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 246-291 (58.57 - 69.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-2 0 SpA Charizard Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 124-147 (29.52 - 35%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
Add the numbers up...
I understand your trying to defend Char Y, which is great and all(Char Y is a great mon and I believe BOTH of them are freaking monster), but I'm also defending Char X while putting out much more evidence other then hypotheticals.
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I'll be honest, from a defensive standpoint, I'd say Zard Y actually has the better typing. Why? Because Drought effectively gives it 2 weaknesses, an immunity, and 6 resistances. That's amazing for an offensive Pokemon. Especially when you consider that the sun nerfs Thunder as well. Stealth Rock sucks and all, but Zard Y is very potent at forcing switches and switching in itself when there aren't hazards around. And with Defog, you don't need a dedicated spinner to deal with SR, in fact Zard Y can even run it itself (though that's not a good idea)
Although if you rely on Flare Blitz mostly for damage, isn't it better to go with Charizard Y ? Before you call me nuts or something, Flare Blitz in Sun will hit harder from Charizard Y then X without it when we take into account same damage boosting moves. If you pull it off properly, it should clean up late game easily. Although problem is that your best second STAB attack is Fly, which kind of suck (and Aerial Ace is just too weak), but if you Steels/Rock types are weakened late game it won't be that troublesome especially as there are no immunities to Flying (although protect is annoying here), so your opponent can't just switch into immunity. Well, if Ghost Arceus can still work around side effect of Shadow Force (and I heard some people used with decent success Fly version of SD Flying Arceus, than this one should works as well). Or you may just use another coverage move instead and rely just on Flare Blitz (and with Sun Flare blitz should decimate many resists anyway).
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
~ Swords Dance
~ Flare Blitz
~ Fly / ThunderPunch / Brick Break / Overheat / Roost
~ Earthquake
Idea behind this set is simple - clean up late, while it also works as a fantastic lure to beat straight up Pink Blobs (although they still don't like taking sun boosted Fire blasts, but I see people switching into this version of Charizard with them), Tyranitar and Heatran, which really like to switch into special versions of Charizard Y. While at first Talonflame may totally outclass it, it has some neat advantages over our favorite fire hawk. First one of those is much stronger Flare Blitz - After Swords Dance it really, really hurts. Second - it has much easier time against targets like Heatran, Tyranitar or Tyrantrum because of access to Earthquake - something that Talonflame would kill for. Third one - higher base attack, which after Swords Dance hit 614 (with Jolly) or 674 (with Adamant) which are pretty high numbers. Forth reason - You resist ALL types of priority except Water, from which you take neutral damage and Normal (And also Flying type from MegaPinsir). If you don't like the side effect of Fly, go with ThunderPunch for coverage (or Brick Break if you hate Snorlax and don't want to take recoil damage from pink blobs). Overheat is also an option as even uninvested will hurt like hell in Sun. Roost is possible as an option as well. Anyway damage calcs.
Damage Calcs:
+2 Flare Blitz in Sun vs Standard Bulky Rotom-W
79.26%-93.31% (33.33% to OHKO with SR up)
Technically you actually KO Rotom-W (and Rotom-H in this case as well, they have same stats anyway), thing, which actually 100% counter Talonflame. It also shows that Flare Blitz under sun hurts.
+2 Flare Blitz in Sun vs Max HP/Max Def Positive Nature Donphan
83.07%-97.92% (28.21% to OHKO with SR up)
Well this one hurts as well, taking into account how bulky Donphan on physical side is.
+2 Flare Blitz in Sun vs Max HP/Max Def Positive Nature Suicune
40.59%-47.77%
While this one doesn't look as impressive, taking into account that we look probably on the bulkiest bulky water I would actually be content with this damage score. Also his Scald under sun tickles Charizard and he's immune to burn as fire type, so you win this matchup anyway (unless he phazes you out). Heck, phazing is the only way he beats you up.
+2 Flare Blitz in Sun vs Max HP/Max Def Positive Nature Slowbro
42.89%-50.51% (41.55% to 2HKO with SR up counting Leftovers)
Again, good damage.
+2 Flare Blitz in Sun vs Max HP Conkeldurr
126.33%-148.79%
+2 Flare Blitz in Sun vs Standard Support Garchomp
51.43%-60.48%
Taking into account how bulky invested Garchomp is this is actually pretty good calc. Also this version of Garchomp doesn't carry Stone Edge, so it straight up looses 1vs1. The best it can do is to phaze (if he picks Dragon Tail that is). 4 HP Garchomp takes 72.91% - 86.03% from the same Flare Blitz, but without Sticky Web or Body Slam paralysis I would really not recommend doing this one, as he outspeeds you. Body Slam Support Jirachi should work like a charm - baits Garchomp like honey baits bears and has good 60% chance to paralyze him on switch. Also has great synergy in resistances with Charizard Y.
+2 Flare Blitz in Sun vs Standard Defensive Gliscor
88.64%-104.26%
OHKO with SR up. And we talk about most defensive Gliscor version there is.
What about Jellicent ? Standard Utility Counter Jellicent (Physically Bulky)
56.08%-66.25%
He also tickles in Sun with Scald. While you can also just KO it with ThunderPunch.
Ok, let's continue. Now Standard Offensive Pivot Landorus-T (most bulky OU set, counting Intimidate)
90.03%-106.30%
Yep, no chance for him as well. Ok, next. This time OU Defensive Cresselia.
72.01%-84.88%
Taking into account how bulky Cresselia is on physical side, this one is looking cute as well. She better be really healthy before trying to wall Charizard Y.
Ok, some quick Earthquake calcs as well.
Max HP Tyranitar
85.15%-100.50%
Max HP Tyrantrum
105.57%-124.59%
Anyway as calcs prove this Charizard Y version actually hurts. Support him well and he should do this job. And when climbing on ladder, baits/lures are a good way to secure win in a games, as not many will except this kind of set coming from Charizard Y. Unfortunately it is countered by Hippowdon (weather change), Defensive Politoad (also weather change), Swampert (seeing how he counters/checks TTar, Talonflame, Hippowdon, Tyrantrum, Gyarados, etc. he actually may be viable in Gen 6 OU) , but it's harder to wall than you would expect.
Dragon Dance should be fine as well (always run Brick Break for it, otherwise you can't KO TTar and Heatran without rock attack can't hurt you for crap anyway), but I think Swords Dance is the set which you should use for this guy IMO.
Moral of the story ? If you don't run Outrage - use Charizard Y for physical sets (no, it's not a joke). Dragon Claw IMO is not strong enough to break through many walls/bulky pivots while Flare Blitz is weaker coming from Charizard X than Charizard Y. Especially in a metagame which shapes up to be much bulkier than last one with Defog buff, so SR is not THAT big of a problem. Although if you don't want to give that much anti-SR support, than Charizard X is still better pick. And also if you go mixed dancing - Charizard Y is better again. Heck, even double dancing set of Flare Blitz/Earthquake/Dragon Dance/Swords Dance sounds credible (using one of boosting moves according to opponents team) - Flare Blitz hits really hard even resists anyway and EQ hits most other stuff (watch out on Gyarados though). Although this kind of set would require more support.
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Do you WANT Heatran and Tyranitar to hard wall you?!?
Tyranitar is going to hard wall you either way, he ruins your sun, has SE moves, and with AV he can survive
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Or run Swords Dance/Dragon Dance :D.
Although ArdentSun has a point - with Assault Vest you won't hurt Tyranitar anyway (unless he switches directly on Focus Blast on switch) and he'll easily KO you back. In case of Heatran it's pretty similar, although you may just run Hidden Power Ground which is far more reliable and you eliminate Heatran anyway with it (if he carries Baloon, just use Solarbeam to pop it and KO after, if he doesn't carry rock attack he can't seriously hurt you anyway). In this case I would recommend Dugtrio support - as long as Tyranitars rock attack isn't Choice Banded, Dugtrio can switch in and KO back with CB Earthquake (if you want to run Choice Band) while trapping Tyranitar. Once Tyranitar is eliminated - ur free to do whatever you want.
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Seriously, unless Heatran is running hidden power rock or ancient power its really not enough to justify using earthquake on Zard-Y, chances are if theyre running the rock move, you'll OHKO after rocks anyways due to the fact they're gonna be offensively EV'd. Pretty sure focus blast does more than half to Vest Tyranitar anyways, something that will be scared of switching into Zard-Y anyways. Dugtrio support really is not necessary, Dugtrio's usefulness is severely dampened this gen anyways due to weather no longer being is common and multiple inducers for sun. The chances are if you're wanting to make a really sun dependent team you'll be running Ninetales and Zard.
Really though, the only support Y-Zard needs is something to deal with Chansey/Blissey and preferably defog. Sticky web can be nice too for dropping speed on problematic pokemon such as Terrakion, Garchomp, etc.
Clear the field, destroy everything.
Really though, the only support Y-Zard needs is something to deal with Chansey/Blissey and preferably defog. Sticky web can be nice too for dropping speed on problematic pokemon such as Terrakion, Garchomp, etc.
Clear the field, destroy everything.
Taking into account how AV Tyranitar is popular and how it handles both Charizard Y and Talonflame, I would say Dugtrio usefulness is not out yet (although I realise that weather nerf doesn't help him). Also if Tyrantrum gets Rock Head Head Smash (sooner or later he'll get it), this will be another reason to run Dugtrio. Also Dugtrio has the ability to trap few troublesome Pokemon anyway like Terrakion (as long as it's not scarfed on fighting attack or used Rock Polish), MegaHeracross (you may run CB Aerial Ace), Heatran (as long as his baloon is not up), etc. I would say that this little fella still has pretty solid niche if you need his trapping abilities. While he will drop indeed in popularity, I wouldn't ditch him out yet. Especially with Tyranitar probably everywhere, for example just to handle Talonflame. If you really want to run Focus Blast - IMO you should do it with Substitute like Gengar. For first - you may afford to miss once and allows you to scout Tyranitar moveset (just make sure you don't switch on SR). And honestly I really dislike relying on 70% accuracy move to hit twice in a row while TTar can easily KO you back. Really, IMO not worth it. And BTW when Dugtrio helps your team - than why not use it ? Because it won't be popular anymore ? I don't feel like this is good argument.
It's too weak without Swords Dance (at least in case of Tyranitar, for Heatran it's still fine). There's always an option of Brick Break, which should 2HKO once you hit with it Tyranitar on switch. Brick Break is ok option as well.
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252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Sand Stream Tyranitar: 219 - 258 (54.3 - 63.9%)
I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but Tyranitar with its absolute strongest special defensive capabilities still gets 2HKOed by Focus Blast 100% of the time. Granted, the chance of Focus Blast actually hitting twice in a row is just 51%.
That said:
0 Atk Mega Charizard Y Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 210 - 248 (52.2 - 61.4%)
Not remotely ideal, but Charizard is faster, so it can put a dent in Tyranitar if it catches it on the switch without having to worry about a miss. If we're thinking specifically about Tyranitar, it should be workable.
0 Atk Mega Charizard Y Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 108 - 127 (28.2 - 33.2%)
Not as great of a matchup here, though. Especially if Heatran runs HP Rock or Ancient Power, which could be viable if it's being used to put a stop to Charizard and Talonflame. If Charizard wants to go mixed to muscle past one of its biggest checks without Focus Blast, it's gotta pick one.
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 232 - 273 (60.3 - 71.0%)
Judgment call, I guess. And things do change if they're not as dedicated special defenders.
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 319 - 376 (91.4 - 107.5%)
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sand Stream Tyranitar: 450 - 529 (111.4 - 131.1%)
Base 159 SpA with a 120 BP super effective attack tends to hurt.
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I....I.... I don't know how to feel about this. I really like the cookie cutter way the MegaZards currently work, but I can't deny math.
I haven't felt this much self turmoil since college applications. KEJMUR WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!
In all seriousness, excellent work. I admit I forgot Charizard learned swords dance. Please don't take this another step further and say that Charizard Y is definitively better than X in every way. It'd break my heart.
I'm also kind of mad that GF did not take a ballsy step and make the two Zards reverses of each other in terms of stat spread.
Well, there is also Tough Claws to figure in, but really that doesn't even work on earthquake and gives a much smaller boost to Flare Blitz than sun does, so really you only get the boost on Thunder Punch which is nice but eh. He does get a higher attack to use these moves with so idk.
Nah, not totally outclass. I mentioned in that post that if you run Outrage Charizard X is not outclassed as it allows him to break (with a bit of residual damage or without it) through Pokemon like Hippowdon (this alone gives Charizard X reason to be used over Charizard Y if you feel Hippo is big problem for your team), Defensive Politoad, Swampert, Snorlax (if you don't run Brick Break), etc, etc. Also good player may stall out sun turns by smart switching (although it may be hard taking into account how hard Flare Blitz hits in sun even resists) or try to do it with Protect turns, because Charizard Y desperately needs sun to do his job. While it won't matter as much against squishy targets, against walls/bulky pivots you need sun. Weather changes also make your life much harder. Charizard X is just more reliable and less SR weak, which are good enough reasons to use him over Y version. But if you run Dragon Claw - you loose your ability to break through stuff like Hippowdon or Defensive Politoad (lack of Life orb HURTS LIKE HELL, if you want to run STAB Dragon Claw Dragon Dancer, go with Salamence, Life Orb matters ALOT), which is why I said Dragon Claw on SD Charizard X is bad idea (and even worse on DD one).
Although ironically for example if you use SD Charizard X and you face Cresselia/Donphan/Gliscor/Landorus-T, you can't KO them back in one hit (Outrage and Flare Blitz have the same base power and without Sun it's impossible in case of Flare Blitz), while Charizard Y is capable of doing this with SR alone (and in case of Cresselia with a bit of residual damage as well). It's really your choice. BTW Dragon Dance Flare Blitz from Charizard Y > Dragon Dance Flare Blitz from Charizard X as well, so here situation is the same (although SD is much better against walls, while DD allows you to beat faster, but frailer Pokemon). Although you better run Brick Break in case of Dragon Dance - otherwise TTar survives hit and KO back with rock attack. SD is much better against walls, while DD allows you to KO frailer, but faster stuff than you. So yes, DD is viable as well, but SD is the set with raw power, not DD (both Charizard X and Y misses Life Orb alot, although... Charizard Y is less dependent, because Flare Blitz in sun gains technically free Choice Band boost on Flare Blitz, which is HUGE). Also surprise value while going with physical Charizard Y is big, I would really not underestimate it. Charizard X is really one-dimentional (SD, DD or All-Out Attacker), while Charizard Y may go DD, SD, Mixed or just pure special set like always.
Yep, Tough Claws helps a bit in case of ThunderPunch and you deal higher damage on coverage moves, but... you use those moves to cover targets which your STABs don't hit. You still in 80-90% of cases obviously use your STABs. And when it goes to coverage moves - Charizard Y deals exactly as much damage as needed (for example against Tyranitar or Tyrantrum with Earthquake), so this advantage is not really... advantage. If he had like few points less in attack, it would matter. But it doesn't.
In other words if you want to take a risk and support your Charizard harder than normally (you MUST make sure SR is not up for Y) - go with Charizard Y for physical sets (also remember about recoil damage, it MUST be healthy before starting as well). If you want Charizard, which needs less help at his job and it is less reliant on weather, Charizard X is your man. Both have cons and pros.
BTW I'll need to check how much SpA EVs Charizard Y needs (if any) to KO Physically Bulky Hippowdon with Overheat. Because if amount is really small, this advantage of Charizard X may be lost as well, lol.
EDIT: Ok, thanks for calculating that Thorhammer ;). BTW I gave you Like for this ;). Hmm... it's not that big, so maybe it's worth it. Anyway it's an option worth to consider if you hate Hippowdon.
Emm... you realize that Charizard Y is evolded form of the same Pokemon as Charizard X and also has access to Dragon Dance ? BTW as I mentioned - Flare Blitz from Charizard Y hits harder than from Charizard X because of sun.
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0 SpA Drought Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 411 - 483 (97.9 - 115.1%)
It needs 362 SpA (32 EVs) to get the minimum damage to 100%.
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