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Cobalion (Defensive) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Katakiri, Feb 2, 2012.

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  1. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    QC Approvals: zdrup15, PK Gaming, Pocket
    GP Approvals: sirndpt, Jellicent

    [​IMG]
    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Close Combat / Sacred Sword
    move 2: Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Taunt / Roar
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With the physical bulk of Dialga, the Iron Will Pokemon aims to not only set itself apart from his Musketeer brothers, Virizion and Terrakion, but from all other Fighting- and Steel-types in the tier. Among the attacks he comfortably sponges include a Close Combat from Terrakion and Sand Force-boosted Earthquake from Landorus, which both deal a maximum of 75% damage. Most importantly, Cobalion is only 3HKOed by a +1 Dragonite's Fire Punch, letting Cobalion inflict status, attack it with Hidden Power Ice, or Roar away the dragon. Fighting STAB makes Cobalion very different from his Steel-type brethren, such as Skarmory and Bronzong, who often find themselves walled by the common Tyranitar and Ferrothorn. Close Combat gives Cobalion much-needed power and make up for his relatively low Attack stat. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of his defenses, so it should be saved for when it's needed and not thrown out wildly. Sacred Sword, on the other hand, has significantly less power but it doesn't cut Cobalion's defenses upon use. Due to his above average base 90 Special Attack, even with a hindering nature, Cobalion's Hidden Power Ice allows him to combat Landorus and Gliscor, the latter of which is able to wall most other Steel-types in OU. Due to Cobalion's fantastic natural Speed, Taunt prevents a plethora of slower Pokemon, namely Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Gyarados, and Breloom, from setting up and makes them much less threatening to Cobalion. While he faces competition from Skarmory, Cobalion can make great use of Roar especially with his ability to sponge hits from the ever-popular Dragonite. Roar also works hand in hand with Thunder Wave, which can cripple sweepers and walls alike, rubbing salt in the wounds of Pokemon that fall for Cobalion's Taunt or get dragged out by his Roar. Due to Cobalion scaring away Steel-types with his STAB Fighting-type moves, Toxic is great for spreading harmful status and hurting Jellicent in particular.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The Impish nature is no mistake. The Special Attack drop does not deprive Hidden Power Ice of any significant KOs, but the Speed drop from a Relaxed nature would make Cobalion slower than uninvested Celebi and Jirachi with no Speed EVs, while Impish lets him outspeed said Pokemon. Safeguard can protect not only Cobalion, but his entire team from Jellicent's Scalds and Will-O-Wisps, turning the jellyfish into setup bait for any Pokemon. Of course it's not all flowers and sunshine for the Iron Will Pokemon; his lack of recovery is glaring. Luckily, Leftovers do the job just fine due to his x4 resistance to Stealth Rock and immunity to sand and poison damage. He takes a hit, then gets a couple turns of Leftovers before he's forced out, so he certainly has more longevity than anyone would expect. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spe gives Cobalion the ability to out-speed the popular Swords Dance Lucario. However, if using this spread, rain support from Drizzle Politoed will be necessary to make sure +1 Dragonite can't 2HKO with Fire Punch.</p>

    <p>Jellicent and Politoed, as well as most other bulky Water-types, threaten Cobalion with a potential burn from Scald. Rotom-W is faster than Cobalion and can inflict burn or cripple Cobalion with Tricked Choice items while taking little from Close Combat. Most Ghost- and Psychic-types give Cobalion a lot of grief as many of the faster Pokemon carry Substitute to block status and take very little from Hidden Power Ice. Heatran is not a big issue as Cobalion's Fighting typing scares it off, but if the opponent catches on to Cobalion's set and gets bold with Heatran, Cobalion could be in trouble as he doesn't have the best Attack stat and will always fall short of OHKOing Heatran by 20 to 30 percent. Ninetales and other special attacking Fire-types are huge threats to Cobalion. However, just about all physical Fire-type attackers, with the exception of Darmanitan, are unable to KO Cobalion. There are only two Pokemon that cover all of Cobalion's problems; Latios and Latias. They resist Fire-, Fighting-, and Ground-type moves, and also sponge Psychic-type hits thrown at him. In return, Cobalion stops Dark-types cold in their tracks even getting an Attack boost thanks to Justified, as well as pouting quite a bit of intimidation on Tyranitar, making him a little more hesitant to take advantage of the twins. However, if the Lati twins aren't your style, Drizzle support is highly recommended as it rids Cobalion of his Fire-type weakness, which is the most significant of the three weaknesses he has, as Fighting- and Ground-type moves generally target his higher Defense. With no Fire-type weakness to worry about, the types of Pokemon that can defend Cobalion expands exponentially to include Celebi, Levitating Psychic- and Ghost-types, and many Flying-types. While not completely necessary, Wish passers such as Latias are welcome as any extra recovery for Cobalion is certainly appreciated.</p>
  2. Cherub Agent

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    Awesome set. Someone's finally figured out a way to distinguish Cobalion. Perhaps mention Wish Latias in particular? Cobalion loves Wish support, and they synergize perfectly with eachother. Cobe also scares off Tyranitar. Protect for extra recovery? I wouldn't slash Sacred Sword tbh, more of an AC mention imo. I'm gonna try this, looks great
  3. Pearl.

    Pearl. Nice hax: what is dry masturbation?
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    If I was you, I'd probably make Sacred Sword the main move on the first slot or completely remove Close Combat since the Defense drops it causes are kinda counterproductive on a defensive set like this one.

    Also, this is an amazing set. Definitively going to give it a try.
  4. Cherub Agent

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    Cobalion really loves the power of CC, Sacred Sword is really weak without investment.
  5. H-C

    H-C

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    I would have say like Pearl. even if the power isn't great, having a def drop is risky.

    I think Sacred Sword would be the main slash btw.

    Seems cool, I'll try it anyway.
  6. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    It's not like Cobalion's throwing Close Combat every chance it gets, and being a defensive Pokemon, it won't stay in very long due to checks and counters. Close Combat will stay.

    That aside, Katakiri, please move the 32 EVs in Special Defense to Speed, since that exact amount of EVs allow Cobalion to outrun max speed neutral base 80 Pokemon, especially Dragonite, who threatens with Choice Band (who would want Cobalion to NOT outrun it and get finished off by, say, CB Outrage?). I will test this set out in the future and see how everything goes. It's rare for Cobalion to get attention, so I do hope this fares well!
  7. Smilodon

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    Wouldn't volt change be an option for the so precious momentum ?
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Katakiri, do you happen to have logs / replay of this Cobalion in action? All of your calcs proves how it can take hits, but I still have a hard time seeing how Cobalion would fit into a team. I need to play-test this out myself, but a few pointers from you would help ;p

    From what I can tell though, is that it beats Tyranitar, SD Scizor without Superpower, Dragonite, and Ferrothorn. It's a decent check to Terrakion, but loses to Landorus. HP Ice 2HKOs Gliscor, which is nice. It can phaze out Haxorus. Taunt, Roar, T-Wave prevents it from becoming set-up bait by mons it can't beat.

    I also agree with AccidentalGreed - unless those SDef EVs have a specific purpose, move them to be faster than Adamant Dragonite / Mamoswine. Reaching 280 Speed seems useful for checking Lucario, too, but the extra 80 Spe EVs may take away too much from its physical bulk.
  9. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    I have a couple of replays. The first one is from a few days ago using what's becoming my standard team and the second is from a team I've been building today that's less than ideal atm.

    http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-TizioZ-vs-Katakiri--2012-01-30
    The replay's not glitched, the first Zapdos is my Scarf Zoroark

    http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Sciserr-vs-Katakiriteer--2012-02-02



    As for changes; I'll make a mention of Wish Latias in AC and change SpDef to Speed. (thanks for that catch)

    I'm keeping Close Combat as the main slash because he really does need that power. However you'll notice in the second replay that I use Close Combat too recklessly too early and end up losing 2 Pokemon to something Cobalion should have taken out no problem. (Although that freeze hax on Virizion was crap) I didn't stay in because I was at -2 Defense and I didn't know how much speed he's running. It's a perfect example of how Close Combat can be a bother. Because of that, I don't consider Sacred Sword to be a bad option. Inferior, yes, but not bad.

    Just consider Close Combat like Brave Bird on Skarmory. Brave Bird breaks sturdy & has recoil but Drill Peck, more often than not, just doesn't cut it. But of course Cobalion is stronger than Skarmory, so he can get away with it.

    Volt Switch would be nice, but there's just absolutely no room for it. You'd have to give up one of your support options or HP Ice which are far more important than Volt Switch.

    Edit: Definitely making mention of Drizzle support. http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Katakiriteer-vs-PeterForsberg21--2012-02-03
  10. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    I've tested a slightly different version of this set with Toxic instead of Thunder Wave (it scares away most Steel-types so Toxic is an excellent move) and therefore:

    • Slash Toxic with Thunder Wave. Cobalion scares away most Steel-types, which makes Toxic the perfect move to use.
    • Mention an alternate spread of 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spd because this gives Cobalion the ability to outspeed Lucario, a very dangerous threat in today's metagame. If using this spread, Politoed is a very good teammate to make sure +1 Dragonite can't 2HKO with Fire Punch (it's the only reason I don't recomend it as the main spread).

    After this, consider it

    QC APPROVED 1/3

    PS: Mynism is a boss xD
  11. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    Sounds good to me. Set updated.

    Aww there goes my 404 post count.
  12. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Nice set!

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I'm sold - on top of its unique typing and stats, its access to Taunt, T-Wave, and Roar makes it quite a utility-mon, as you've demonstrated :d

    QC Approved (3/3)
  14. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    Thanks for the approvals, everyone! I'll start working on the formal analysis tomorrow.

    Edit: I noticed I wrote the original analysis the same way I would write formal ones just with bullet points. Since there wasn't a whole lot to change, I just did it in a few minutes instead of waiting until tomorrow.

    Ready for GP checks!
  15. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    Show Hide


    [​IMG]

    copypastable (open)
    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Close Combat / Sacred Sword
    move 2: Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Taunt / Roar
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With the physical defensive bulk of Dialga, the Iron Will Pokemon aims to not only set itself apart from his Musketeer brothers, Virizion and Terrakion, but from all other Fighting- and Steel-types in the tier. Among the attacks he comfortably sponges include Close Combat from Terrakion and Sand Force-boosted Earthquake from Landorus, which both deal a maximum of 75% damage. Perhaps most importantly, Cobalion is only 3HKOed by Dragon Dance-boosted Dragonite's Fire Punch, letting Cobalion inflict status or Roar away the dragon. Fighting STAB makes Cobalion very different from his Steel-type brethren, such as Skarmory and Bronzong, who often find themselves walled by the common Tyranitar and Ferrothorn. Close Combat gives Cobalion much-needed power and make up for his relatively low Attack stat. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of his defenses, so it should be saved for when it's needed and not thrown out wildly. Sacred Sword, on the other hand, has significantly less power but it doesn't cut Cobalion's defenses upon use. Due to his above average base 90 Special Attack, even with a hindering nature, Cobalion's Hidden Power Ice allows him to combat Landorus and Gliscor; the latter of whom is able to wall most other Steel-types in OU. Due to Cobalion's fantastic natural Speed, Taunt prevents a plethora of slower Pokemon, namely Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Gyarados, and Breloom, from setting up and makes them much less threatening to Cobalion. While he faces competition from Skarmory, Cobalion can make great use of Roar especially with his ability to sponge hits from the ever-popular Dragonite. Roar also works hand in hand with Thunder Wave, which can cripple sweepers and walls alike, rubbing salt in the wounds of Pokemon that fall for Cobalion's Taunt or get dragged out by his Roar. Due to Cobalion scaring away Steel-types with his STAB Fighting-type moves, Toxic is great for spreading harmful status and hurting Jellicent in particular.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The Impish nature is no mistake. The Special Attack drop does not deprive Hidden Power Ice of any significant KOs, but the Speed drop from a Relaxed nature would make Cobalion slower than uninvested Celebi and Jirachi with no Speed EVs, while Impish lets him outspeed them by quite a good amount. Safeguard can protect not only Cobalion, but his entire team from Jellicent's burning attacks, turning the jellyfish into setup bait for any Pokemon. Of course it's not all flowers and sunshine for the Iron Will Pokemon. His lack of recovery is glaring. Luckily, Leftovers do the job just fine due to his x4 resistance to Stealth Rock and immunity to sand and poison damage. He takes a hit, then gets a couple turns of Leftovers before he's forced out, so he certainly has more longevity than anyone would expect. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spd gives Cobalion the ability to outspeed the popular Swords Dance Lucario. However, if using this spread, rain support from Drizzle Politoed will be necessary to make sure +1 Dragonite can't 2HKO with Fire Punch.</p>

    <p>Jellicent and Rotom-A, as well as most Ghost- and Psychic-types, give Cobalion a lot of grief. Heatran is not a big issue as Cobalion's Fighting typing scares it off, but if the opponent catches on to Conkeldurr's set and gets bold with Heatran, Cobalion could be in trouble as he doesn't have the best Attack stat and will always fall short of OHKOing Heatran by 20 to 30 percent. Ninetales and other special attacking Fire-types are huge threats to Cobalion. However, just about all physical Fire-type attackers, with the exception of Darmanitan, are unable to KO Cobalion. There are only two Pokemon that cover all of Cobalion's problems; Latios and Latias. They resist Fire-, Fighting-, and Ground-type moves, and also sponge Psychic-type hits thrown at him. In return, Cobalion stops Dark-types cold in their tracks and puts quite a bit of intimidation on Tyranitar, making him a little more hesitant to take advantage of the twins. However, if the Lati twins aren't your style, Drizzle support is highly recommended as it rids Cobalion of his Fire-type weakness, which is the most significant of the three weaknesses he has, as Fighting- Ground-type moves generally target his higher Defense. With no Fire-type weakness to worry about, the types of Pokemon that can defend Cobalion expands exponentially to include Celebi, Levitating Psychic- and Ghost-types, and many Flying-types. While not completely necessary, Wish passers such as Latias are welcome as any extra recovery for Cobalion is certainly appreciated.</p>
  16. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    Thanks, sirndpt. I updated it with all the changes.
  17. alexwolf

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    Just a question, but isn't the defensive part kind of redundant? Just saying physical bulk isn't enough?
  18. TrollFreak

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    placeholder

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Close Combat / Sacred Sword
    move 2: Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Taunt / Roar
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With the physical defensive bulk of Dialga, the Iron Will Pokemon aims to not only set itself apart from his Musketeer brothers, Virizion and Terrakion, but from all other Fighting- and Steel-types in the tier. Among the attacks he comfortably sponges include a Close Combat from Terrakion and a Sand Force-boosted Earthquake from Landorus, which both deal a maximum of 75% damage. Perhaps Most importantly, Cobalion is only 3HKOed by Dragon Dance-boosted a +1 Dragonite's Fire Punch, letting Cobalion inflict status or, attack it with Hidden Power Ice, or Roar away the dragon. Fighting STAB makes Cobalion very different from his Steel-type brethren, such as Skarmory and Bronzong, who often find themselves walled by the common Tyranitar and Ferrothorn. Close Combat gives Cobalion much-needed power and make up for his relatively low Attack stat. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of his defenses, so it should be saved for when it's needed and not thrown out wildly. Sacred Sword, on the other hand, has significantly less power but it doesn't cut Cobalion's defenses upon use. Due to his above average base 90 Special Attack, even with a hindering nature, Cobalion's Hidden Power Ice allows him to combat Landorus and Gliscor; the latter of whom is able to wall most other Steel-types in OU. Due to Cobalion's fantastic natural Speed, Taunt prevents a plethora of slower Pokemon, namely Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Gyarados, and Breloom, from setting up and makes them much less threatening to Cobalion. While he faces competition from Skarmory, Cobalion can make great use of Roar especially with his ability to sponge hits from the ever-popular Dragonite. Roar also works hand in hand with Thunder Wave, which can cripple sweepers and walls alike, rubbing salt in the wounds of Pokemon that fall for Cobalion's Taunt or get dragged out by his Roar. Due to Cobalion scaring away Steel-types with his STAB Fighting-type moves, Toxic is great for spreading harmful status and hurting Jellicent in particular.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The Impish nature is no mistake. The Special Attack drop does not deprive Hidden Power Ice of any significant KOs, but the Speed drop from a Relaxed nature would make Cobalion slower than uninvested Celebi and Jirachi with no Speed EVs, while Impish lets him outspeed them said Pokemon by quite a good amount. Safeguard can protect not only Cobalion, but his entire team from Jellicent's burning attacks Scalds and Will-O-Wisps, turning the jellyfish into setup bait for any Pokemon. Of course it's not all flowers and sunshine for the Iron Will Pokemon., his lack of recovery is glaring. Luckily, Leftovers do the job just fine due to his x4 resistance to Stealth Rock and immunity to sand and poison damage. He takes a hit, then gets a couple turns of Leftovers before he's forced out, so he certainly has more longevity than anyone would expect. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spe gives Cobalion the ability to outspeed the popular Swords Dance Lucario. However, if using this spread, rain support from Drizzle Politoed will be necessary to make sure +1 Dragonite can't 2HKO with Fire Punch.</p>

    <p>Jellicent and Rotom-A (Rotom-A isn't a Ghost or Psychic type, only the original Rotom is), as well as most Ghost- and Psychic-types, give Cobalion a lot of grief. Heatran is not a big issue as Cobalion's Fighting typing scares it off, but if the opponent catches on to Conkeldurr's Cobalion's set and gets bold with Heatran, Cobalion could be in trouble as he doesn't have the best Attack stat and will always fall short of OHKOing Heatran by 20 to 30 percent. Ninetales and other special attacking Fire-types are huge threats to Cobalion. However, just about all physical Fire-type attackers, with the exception of Darmanitan, are unable to KO Cobalion. There are only two Pokemon that cover all of Cobalion's problems; Latios and Latias. They resist Fire-, Fighting-, and Ground-type moves, and also sponge Psychic-type hits thrown at him. In return, Cobalion stops Dark-types cold in their tracks , even getting an Attack boost thanks to Justified, and as well as puting quite a bit of intimidation on Tyranitar, making him a little more hesitant to take advantage of the twins. However, if the Lati twins aren't your style, Drizzle support is highly recommended as it rids Cobalion of his Fire-type weakness, which is the most significant of the three weaknesses he has, as Fighting- Ground-type moves generally target his higher Defense. With no Fire-type weakness to worry about, the types of Pokemon that can defend Cobalion expands exponentially to include Celebi, Levitating Psychic- and Ghost-types, and many Flying-types. While not completely necessary, Wish passers such as Latias are welcome as any extra recovery for Cobalion is certainly appreciated.</p>
  19. twash

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    It's definitely worth giving Protect a small sentence somewhere. Although it is generally inferior to the other options, it does help provide extra opportunities for Leftovers healing. More importantly it allows Cobalion to scout for Choiced Earthquakes and Close Combats (I'm looking at you, Landorus & Terrakion), making prediction a lot easier. It does scout other Pokemon too, but those guys are the big offenders.
  20. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Stamping TrollFreak, with some nitpicks:

    In Set Comments: " Landorus and Gliscor; the latter of whom is able to wall most other Steel-types in OU." should be "Gliscor, the latter of which"
    First para, AC: "flowers and sunshine for the Iron Will Pokemon., his" make that a semicolon, not a comma.
    2nd para, AC: "three weaknesses he has, as Fighting- Ground-type moves generally target his higher Defense." make it "as Fighting- and Ground-type"

    Also, like he said, Rotom-A isn't a Ghost-type; consider replacing it with Gengar, or the lesser seen Chandelure, who gets Fire STAB.
    [​IMG]
    2/2
  21. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    Thanks everyone! All the changes have been applied! I split Jellicent & Rotom-W (I forgot there was a Rotom-A weak to Fighting) into their own sentences to keep Rotom-W from being lumped between mentions of Ghost-types.

    This is what I changed:
    "Jellicent and Politoed, as well as most other bulky Water-types, threaten Cobalion with a potential burn from Scald. Rotom-W is faster than Cobalion and can inflict burn or cripple Cobalion with Tricked Choice items while taking little from Close Combat. Most Ghost- and Psychic-types give Cobalion a lot of grief as many of the faster Pokemon carry Substitute to block status and take very little from Hidden Power Ice."

    If that edit looks good to you, I'd say we can mark this a done.
  22. PK Gaming

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