Except the fact that none of the moves he listed have a chance to miss they are all either 100% or instant hit.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (Read the thread, NO SHITTY GIMMICKS)
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
- Status
Yes, exactly. If he included Dynamicpunch, that wouldn't be the case, and then No Gourd would be actually useful. As it is, he went with Iron Fisting for an ability instead because he built the moveset around it.
Meloetta @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Hasty / Naive: 48 Attack, 252 Sp. Attack, 208 Speed
+Relic Song
+Close Combat
+Shadow Ball
+Psychic / Perish Song
Meloetta's pretty neat in this meta, thanks to things like Aegislash, Bisharp, Tyranitar, the resurgence of annoying Gengars, and the wealth of special attackers, there are plenty of ways for Meloetta to lend a helping hand to her team. Thanks to Relic Song, you can change forms on things that would normally not mind fighting you, like Bisharp or Tyranitar, and turn you into a nightmare who resists their attacks and one shots them with Close Combat. Meanwhile, your Psychic/Normal typing allows you to switch in on the ever prevalent Aegislash Shadow Ball and Shadow Claw without fear, though you oughta watch out for Iron Head variants. Most of the time though, people won't anticipate a Meloetta switch in, and the underutilized Iron Head is not something you often have to worry about.
Meloetta can Shadow Ball Aegislash for some damage while fishing for Sp. Def drops. While Meloetta can carry some Psychic coverage for things like Venusaur, it's good to note that Meloetta has access to Perish Song, making you able to stop some Baton Pass chains if you fear them, or just as a utility phaze. Perish Song is an underrated move that can definitely force some mind games, so it's a viable option.
After a Relic Song, the given speed EVs let you outpace up to Greninja and slam opponents hard with Close Combat.
Meloetta also gets tons of supportive moves like Thunder Wave and Heal Bell, so she can also fill many other roles on your team. She can even be a dedicated switch in on the special side if need be, but she'd need Wish support for that.
It's fairly difficult to come by a Ghost immunity in this meta since Kangaskhan is basically banned, and anyone running bird cores often forgoes Staraptor.
Hasty / Naive: 48 Attack, 252 Sp. Attack, 208 Speed
+Relic Song
+Close Combat
+Shadow Ball
+Psychic / Perish Song
Meloetta's pretty neat in this meta, thanks to things like Aegislash, Bisharp, Tyranitar, the resurgence of annoying Gengars, and the wealth of special attackers, there are plenty of ways for Meloetta to lend a helping hand to her team. Thanks to Relic Song, you can change forms on things that would normally not mind fighting you, like Bisharp or Tyranitar, and turn you into a nightmare who resists their attacks and one shots them with Close Combat. Meanwhile, your Psychic/Normal typing allows you to switch in on the ever prevalent Aegislash Shadow Ball and Shadow Claw without fear, though you oughta watch out for Iron Head variants. Most of the time though, people won't anticipate a Meloetta switch in, and the underutilized Iron Head is not something you often have to worry about.
Meloetta can Shadow Ball Aegislash for some damage while fishing for Sp. Def drops. While Meloetta can carry some Psychic coverage for things like Venusaur, it's good to note that Meloetta has access to Perish Song, making you able to stop some Baton Pass chains if you fear them, or just as a utility phaze. Perish Song is an underrated move that can definitely force some mind games, so it's a viable option.
After a Relic Song, the given speed EVs let you outpace up to Greninja and slam opponents hard with Close Combat.
Meloetta also gets tons of supportive moves like Thunder Wave and Heal Bell, so she can also fill many other roles on your team. She can even be a dedicated switch in on the special side if need be, but she'd need Wish support for that.
It's fairly difficult to come by a Ghost immunity in this meta since Kangaskhan is basically banned, and anyone running bird cores often forgoes Staraptor.
Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def/ 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp / Flareblitz
- Taunt
- Roost
Whilst Stall Breaker Talonflame certainly is nothing new, the combination of Taunt, Will-O-Wisp and Roost, give it both great utility and staying power. The current metagame can be separated in to three main threats that most higher level teams must prepare for.
- Hyper/Heavy Offence, that likes to abuse a quick hazard set up followed by 5 powerful sweepers, usually noted for having a DeoSharp / DeoThund core to abuse Defog support opposing teams use.
- Stall, specifically, the most common core that a lot of players are copying, pasting and running on the ladder - popularised by TFL (their rate my team is here). It's core consisting of Chansey, Skarmory, Heatran, Quagsire & Venusaur.
- Baton pass, I am sure I don't have to go into a lot of detail here but most teams rely on gaining speed & defence boosts from Scolipede and stopping all attempts to pHaze said boost by simply running Magic Bounce Espeon.
Thundurus-T & Thundurus-I:
Manectric:
Mega Manectric:
Deoxys-S
Stall teams do not like running against Pokemon that use Taunt, the standard "cookie cutter" stall team has a very difficult time setting up against this Talonflame. Heatran is out run and taunted before it can do anything of note, the same goes for Chansey & Skarmory. Quagsire runs the risk of switching into a Burn or Taunt directly, and Venusaur wants to stay as far away as possible. To show the utility of this Talonflame here are some calcs for some common moves stall Pokemon run.
Heatran:
Skarmory:
Chansey:
Baton Pass, is a bigger issue, but the surprise value of this set, let's Talonflame play some mind games with the opponent that can work to the users advantage. Firstly Scolipede does not like staying in against Talonflame, period, standard lead Scolipede risks getting OHKOed outright. If your opponent decides to play smart and switch to something else they run the risk of getting hit with a taunt. Speaking of taunt it not only stops Baton Pass Smeargle from leading against Talonflame but also works as a great Espeon lure who is promptly handled by this set. Things to watch out for on Baton Pass are Zapdos & Vaporeon, who are both neutered by Taunt, and can be used as set up by Talonflame's team mates.
Some calcs:
Scolipede:
Espeon:
Final Words:
Talonflame certainly does a lot to help stop these strategies commonly seen in todays metagame but it still has a handful of problem Pokemon it needs to look out for. Two of it's biggest threats are still viable stops to the Fire Hawk, that is, Tyranitar & Rotom-W. The threat of Tyranitar is mitigated by using Will-O-Wisp, but Stone Edge is still a OHKO, and Rotom-W doesn't care about anything this set can do. A great team mate, therefore, is Excadrill, not only does it threaten Tyranitar and Rotom-W directly with a powerful STAB Mold Breaker Earthquake, it also provides Rapid Spin support necessary to the longevity of Talonflame itself. Another good team mate is Latias who provides Defog support, she can directly switch in to any attack from Rotom-W and deal massive damage in return, Latias can also run HP Fighting if Tyranitar is a major pain. Healing wish support from Latias helps Talonflame out immensely. A core consisting of Talonflame, Excadrill & Latias works great by placing offensive pressure on the opponents team, whilst simultaneously supporting the rest of the cores own team. Please see details of an Excadrill / Latias core here.
Replays:
Last edited:
Probably more gimmicky than not but what ever
Excadrill@AirBalloon
Nature:adamant
Evs 252 attack 252 speed
Earthquake
Bulldoze
Rapidspin
Rockville
I shouldn't need to explain anything in this movement besides Bulldoze. Bulldoze is there to slow down any switch ins that may, well switch in. And then KO them with Rockslide or Earthquake respectively, or better yet sometimes force a switch which gives you q free switch
Excadrill@AirBalloon
Nature:adamant
Evs 252 attack 252 speed
Earthquake
Bulldoze
Rapidspin
Rockville
I shouldn't need to explain anything in this movement besides Bulldoze. Bulldoze is there to slow down any switch ins that may, well switch in. And then KO them with Rockslide or Earthquake respectively, or better yet sometimes force a switch which gives you q free switch
Scrafty @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
Careful Nature
Poison Jab
Crunch
Drain Punch
High Jump Kick
I've found this scrafty set to be extremely useful to sponge up almost any kind of hit extremely well except for fairy-type moves. While its moveset is pretty basic, it allows it to effectively dish out damage using strong STAB moves, High Jump Kick is like a last resort move, it uses drain punch to recover HP, and it has poison jab for any fairies that might want to switch in on you. Scrafty's good offensive type combo allows him to attack plenty of pokemon without a problem. I have found that scrafty is extremely good as a switch-in so another pokemon does not die, or as a pokemon to be volt switch'd or u-turn'd into. Overall, its now sky-high defensive stats thanks to the assault vest make me think this is a good set in OU.
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
Careful Nature
Poison Jab
Crunch
Drain Punch
High Jump Kick
I've found this scrafty set to be extremely useful to sponge up almost any kind of hit extremely well except for fairy-type moves. While its moveset is pretty basic, it allows it to effectively dish out damage using strong STAB moves, High Jump Kick is like a last resort move, it uses drain punch to recover HP, and it has poison jab for any fairies that might want to switch in on you. Scrafty's good offensive type combo allows him to attack plenty of pokemon without a problem. I have found that scrafty is extremely good as a switch-in so another pokemon does not die, or as a pokemon to be volt switch'd or u-turn'd into. Overall, its now sky-high defensive stats thanks to the assault vest make me think this is a good set in OU.
I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM
formerly Smog Frog
Prepare Uranus for stallbreaker Zard X
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Grass]
The idea of this set is that Fire/Ground/Grass coverage hits basically anything on stall( the standard team iirc is Aegislash, Chansey, Mega Venusaur, Quagsire, Heatran, and Skarmory/Zapdos/Mandibuzz.) When you go out, you lure in quaggy, which is 2HKOed by HP Grass. But you may be asking, "Why not use outrage?" Well with outrage, you have that nasty side effect, where skarm comes in and whirlwinds you out. HP Grass eliminates the problem, and makes the team happy. This set also has sweeping potential with Dragon Dance, because it sweeps teams with its Fire/Ground coverage. HP Grass may be a niche option, but it really shines against stall.
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Grass]
The idea of this set is that Fire/Ground/Grass coverage hits basically anything on stall( the standard team iirc is Aegislash, Chansey, Mega Venusaur, Quagsire, Heatran, and Skarmory/Zapdos/Mandibuzz.) When you go out, you lure in quaggy, which is 2HKOed by HP Grass. But you may be asking, "Why not use outrage?" Well with outrage, you have that nasty side effect, where skarm comes in and whirlwinds you out. HP Grass eliminates the problem, and makes the team happy. This set also has sweeping potential with Dragon Dance, because it sweeps teams with its Fire/Ground coverage. HP Grass may be a niche option, but it really shines against stall.
Assault Vest Celebi has been pretty kind to me
Celebi @ Assault Vest
252 SpA 4 SpD 252 Speed
Modest
Giga Drain
Psychic
Hidden Power Fire
Earth Power
A set that makes the opponent think you're defensive when, plot twist: you aren't, or just catches the opponent off guard. It'll surprise stuff like gengar at full hp, since it can take the sludge wave (i think, definitely shadow ball) and OHKO with psychic back. Beats non assault vest Tyranitar if you catch it with giga drain on the switch since it can take two pursuits. HP fire is obvious, kills steels, though you really want rocks up to make it work, since stuff like mega scizor can take one and live with around 25% or less. Earth power is solely for heatran. Oh, and it eats rotom w alive. I could play around with the speed evs if I wanted to, but 252 will let it speed tie with max non scarf rotom w.
Celebi @ Assault Vest
252 SpA 4 SpD 252 Speed
Modest
Giga Drain
Psychic
Hidden Power Fire
Earth Power
A set that makes the opponent think you're defensive when, plot twist: you aren't, or just catches the opponent off guard. It'll surprise stuff like gengar at full hp, since it can take the sludge wave (i think, definitely shadow ball) and OHKO with psychic back. Beats non assault vest Tyranitar if you catch it with giga drain on the switch since it can take two pursuits. HP fire is obvious, kills steels, though you really want rocks up to make it work, since stuff like mega scizor can take one and live with around 25% or less. Earth power is solely for heatran. Oh, and it eats rotom w alive. I could play around with the speed evs if I wanted to, but 252 will let it speed tie with max non scarf rotom w.
I have used this set with swords dance and it is a very good way to show middle fingure to quaggy. But, i recommend using adamant because even with a negative nature hp grass 2hkos Quagsire which is the sole reason for using this.
Guys, first thing I want to talk about: Do not slap Assault Vest / Weakness Policy on anything! Assault Vest Celebi, really? It has so many things going for it, it doesn't even need Assault Vest. Here's what an Assault Vest user needs:
Suicune @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 168 HP / 76 Spd
Modest Nature
- Tailwind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Suicune is a really great Pokemon in the current metagame, it has a great blend of bulk and power. First off, this is an offensive set, so don't try to play it as a defensive one. The main niche of this set is Tailwind, which I just am in love with! It doubles your Speed, as you know, but the thing is, Suicune loves the Speed a ton, and so do all of Suicune's teammates. Tailwind allows Suicune to outspeed neutral nature +1 Base 100s such as Adamant DD M-Zard X. Hydro Pump is the main STAB move and certainly packs a punch! Ice Beam is a coverage move and is fairly nice to nail Dragonite. Hidden Power [Grass] is nice for Quagsire and other various Water-types like Rotom-W. I will post replays soon :]!
- Recovery
- Power
- HP
Suicune @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 168 HP / 76 Spd
Modest Nature
- Tailwind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
This isn't shitty, so don't say it is ;-; I love this guy.
I've fallen in love with him.
Heliolisk @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dry skin, timid nature.
Max speed and Sp. Atk.
Volt switch, HP ice, surf/dark pulse, focus blast.
He does a ton of damage, and can ko MPinsir, Keldeo, and 40% of the time charizard! while being healed by +4 aqua jets and locked Keldeo. He also isn't weak to stealth rock.
Can outspeed chomp, as well.
Otherwise outclassed for the most part by thundurus ;-;
I've fallen in love with him.
Heliolisk @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dry skin, timid nature.
Max speed and Sp. Atk.
Volt switch, HP ice, surf/dark pulse, focus blast.
He does a ton of damage, and can ko MPinsir, Keldeo, and 40% of the time charizard! while being healed by +4 aqua jets and locked Keldeo. He also isn't weak to stealth rock.
Can outspeed chomp, as well.
Otherwise outclassed for the most part by thundurus ;-;
Literally what does it have over Thundurus, Mega Manectric, or even fucking Raikou besides "muh bro". I don't think Heliolisk is viable in OU at all :// (I do like it though)
If you are really aiming to use Heliolisk, use a Life Orb set in rain that uses Substitute. Heliolisk is pretty frail to it needs to make the most of any time it switches in, so Substitute eases prediction. Rain allows you to spam Substitute more easily and powers up Surf. Using Life Orb will let you use the wide coverage Heliolisk has more efficiently and you do not have to enter into prediction games using Thunderbolt against teams with Ground-types. TBH Thundurus is more useful on rain-teams IMO because it actually can get past Mega-Venusaur / Ferrothorn and has priority Rain Dance, but if you really want to use Heliolisk rain teams are your best bet.
______________________
edit:
No offense but...
I wouldn't touch more than half the sets here with a ten foot pole. Golurk, Assault Vest Scarfty, Assault Vest Celebi ( q.q its recovery and unique support options are what differentiates it from other grass-types), Bulldoze Excadrill, and Acid Armor Goodra are shitty gimmicks that we (and this thread) should be avoiding. Taunt + Will-o-Wisp Talonflame is a good example because it is a set that can realistically replace the standards on certain teams. I've shared this in the past, but here is another example of what we should be aiming for:
Zapdos @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 144 SAtk / 116 Spe (30 Spe IV OR 31 HP / 31 Def IV)
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Flying]
- Agility
- Baton Pass
Normally offensive Zapdos is outclassed by Thundurus-I, so this Zapdos attempts to use assets that Thundurus-I doesn't have: bulk and baton pass. Zapdos is deceivingly powerful. With a modest nature and 144 special attack EV's it hits 354 special attack, which is actually 5 points above 252 SpA Timid Thundurus-I! The addition of Life Orb doesn't hurt its power either. Zapdos hits 264 speed with 116 Speed EV's. This is an important benchmark to reach because those EV's allow Zapdos to outpace positive-natured base 70 Pokemon and outspeed base 110 scarfers after an Agility. Zapdos has two options to use for a Hidden Power: HP Ice or HP Flying. HP Ice hits Ground-types that are 4x weak to Ice hard. HP Flying targets Mega-Venusaur. Backed by STAB, its powerful enough to 2HKO 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD Bold Venusaur and with SR nearly always 2HKO 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Venusaur. The cool move about this set is Baton Pass. If Zapdos is unable to continue its sweep, it can easily Baton Pass out its speed boost due to its high speed. The Pokemon that receives the pass can end the game that Zapdos does not finish. Good recipients are Pokemon that resist both Ice and Rock, such as Keldeo and Mega-Mawile (good when paired with HP Flying). The heavy HP investment has makes it easy for Zapdos to set up compared to Thundurus-I. The EV's can be tweaked to make bulkier on the defensive side to even more easily set up on Talonflame and Pinsir.
This is a set that could be a realistic choice for a team looking for an offensive electric type, while still being creative and unorthodox.
______________________
edit:
No offense but...
I wouldn't touch more than half the sets here with a ten foot pole. Golurk, Assault Vest Scarfty, Assault Vest Celebi ( q.q its recovery and unique support options are what differentiates it from other grass-types), Bulldoze Excadrill, and Acid Armor Goodra are shitty gimmicks that we (and this thread) should be avoiding. Taunt + Will-o-Wisp Talonflame is a good example because it is a set that can realistically replace the standards on certain teams. I've shared this in the past, but here is another example of what we should be aiming for:
Zapdos @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 144 SAtk / 116 Spe (30 Spe IV OR 31 HP / 31 Def IV)
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Flying]
- Agility
- Baton Pass
Normally offensive Zapdos is outclassed by Thundurus-I, so this Zapdos attempts to use assets that Thundurus-I doesn't have: bulk and baton pass. Zapdos is deceivingly powerful. With a modest nature and 144 special attack EV's it hits 354 special attack, which is actually 5 points above 252 SpA Timid Thundurus-I! The addition of Life Orb doesn't hurt its power either. Zapdos hits 264 speed with 116 Speed EV's. This is an important benchmark to reach because those EV's allow Zapdos to outpace positive-natured base 70 Pokemon and outspeed base 110 scarfers after an Agility. Zapdos has two options to use for a Hidden Power: HP Ice or HP Flying. HP Ice hits Ground-types that are 4x weak to Ice hard. HP Flying targets Mega-Venusaur. Backed by STAB, its powerful enough to 2HKO 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD Bold Venusaur and with SR nearly always 2HKO 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Venusaur. The cool move about this set is Baton Pass. If Zapdos is unable to continue its sweep, it can easily Baton Pass out its speed boost due to its high speed. The Pokemon that receives the pass can end the game that Zapdos does not finish. Good recipients are Pokemon that resist both Ice and Rock, such as Keldeo and Mega-Mawile (good when paired with HP Flying). The heavy HP investment has makes it easy for Zapdos to set up compared to Thundurus-I. The EV's can be tweaked to make bulkier on the defensive side to even more easily set up on Talonflame and Pinsir.
This is a set that could be a realistic choice for a team looking for an offensive electric type, while still being creative and unorthodox.
Last edited:
contradicting yourself, really? it happened to be just what my team needed, so i decided to post it here for others to see if it could work for them. it's the CREATIVE sets thread.
recovery: see giga drain.
power: modest gives 327 special attack. nothing groundbreaking, but decent.
hp: okay, but celebi still isn't exactly frail with base 100 hp even when not invested.
Last edited:
Celebi has much better things to be doing such as Baton Pass, Thunder Wave, Heal Bell, Calm Mind, Swords Dance even, it's a waste to run it if you're losing on all these Defensive capabilities.
Still doesn't stop Celebi from being a bad Assault Vest user. Grass is pretty mediocre offensively, and Celebi doesn't have the offenses to make an all out attacking set with no boosting item worth running, never mind being weak to nearly everything. There's no way you're going to heal enough to actually make Giga Drain worth using, its piss weak and every team runs something that resists Grass (Aegislash, Bisharp, Pinsir, Talonflame, Dragonite, Heatran, anything with substantial special bulk and can hit back works too). Imo if you run Celebi at all this gen, you run Tinkerbell or BP, there really isn't any other niche that Bi is worth picking over something else.
you mention swords dance but then there are things like scolipede who do that but better because of things like speed boost
i'd like to say that earth power makes heatran not have a fun time especially with rocks up. maximum bulk heatran takes a minimum of 60% and assault vest assures celebi doesn't mind the incoming lava plume too much. a lot of other great pokemon are beat by talonflame, aegislash, etc, but they're still ou. dealing with them is what the other five members of your team are for. latios is still amazing even though tyranitar exists. dragonite is still good even though stealth rocks exist (and now fairy too).
i'm not trying to say it's amazing, but it filled a huge hole in my best team, which is why i posted it here. how do you do well in pokemon? get a good team. just slapping together everyday sets isn't going to give much synergy to your team. i started with a life orb but was tired of getting killed by gengar, heatran, etc, so found my way to this unorthodox set that worked. i so deeply apologize for sharing something i've had success with in the creative sets thread.
people these days. >_<
Last edited:
Heatran is a valid point, I forgot about Earth Power, so my bad on that one. The issue with the others isn't so much that they threaten out Celebi, which is to be expected, but that they (and so many others) make recovering with Giga Drain extremely difficult, to the point that you can't viably take more than a couple hits before getting wiped because you can't do enough for Giga Drain to heal you for any substantial amount, which doesn't work out for a Pokemon intended to be switching in and out repeatedly throughout a match. Having your sole source of recovery be so badly limited by common Pokemon makes Giga Drain a poor recovery move in general.
While I don't think that AV Celebi is good, I don't doubt your successes with it. I'm all for patching up holes in a team however you can, but Celebi isn't a Pokemon that you just slap an Assault Vest on unless you have very specific needs for it. Like, I run Future Sight M-Gardevoir. Would I reccomend it? 99% of the time, that answer will be no, because its a weird gimmick, isn't easy to use properly, and could probably be replaced by something that would work far better on most teams. As it happens, though, my team is based on having Keldeo break through stuff like Venusaur for Crawdaunt to clean up afterwards, so it works rather well for me since I force something else to die if Venusaur doesn't come in.
Custom tailored sets are a bit different than creative sets because a creative set does a specific role that that Pokemon might not usually perform, and while a custom set is similar, it only works well on specific teams. Celebi isn't a great pick this generation in the first place, and Assault Vest isn't the best option for it, but if it works for you, its a solid, custom tailored set for your team, but I personally wouldn't advertise it here because it won't work on most teams.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Well then it's obvious you don't have much experience with Celebi. Celebi is amazing at Baton Passing because of all the things it can pass - Nasty Plot/Calm Mind/Swords Dance. Also, 100/100/100 bulk is not bad at all. I think you know near to nothing about Celebi, because it can do so many support things, especially Heal Bell and Thunder Wave.
Assault Vest Celebi can work, I'm pretty damn sure you haven't tried it. Comet7 your set is great. Don't change it, AV Celebi can really do well in OU.
And:
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 216-254 (54.5 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 176-210 (44.4 - 53%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 159-187 (40.1 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I think you misread that completely... Chesnaught is actually endorsing all of those things. re Celebi, I think BlackLight got most of the points down regarding it's flaws, and it seems sort middling to me. Like, it's a good Pokémon in some ways and a bad Pokémon in other ways, and most of the time that isn't good enough for OU. Assault Vest just restricts it too much I think, compared to Pokémon like Conkeldurr and Tangrowth that have all the utility they need in their offensive moves and abilities.
----
Flygon @ Leftovers
Careful/Sassy
Levitate
252 HP/204 Atk/52 Sp. Def
-Defog
-Roost
-Earthquake
-U-Turn/Stone Edge
Specially defensive support Flygon. I've used this to decent success in UU but I'm not sure how well it would do in OU... The basic reasoning behind using Flygon over other Defoggers is it's resistance to Stealth Rock, coupled with it's immunities to Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web. The given EVs allow it to always OHKO an incoming Bisharp with Earthquake after Stealth Rock, which is obviously a huge boon in terms of team support. However, even in my testing in UU I found that it had almost zero coverage with U-Turn and was easily walled flat by anything with an Earthquake immunity. To compensate for this, it's definitely viable to try a Rock move instead of U-Turn to hit Pokémon like Mega Pinsir and Talonflame that otherwise force Flygon out. I have some serious doubts about this thing's viability in OU, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there so this post wasn't a complete waste...
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Excuse me, but I read that pretty well. He thinks Celebi has better things to do than baton passing and supporting the team. I think he's wrong.
Bolded the important bits and added a comment. He's saying that Celebi has more relevant options than Assault Vest, and then he goes on to list those relevant options. He's actually agreeing with you, so no need to create an argument where there isn't one.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Oh, pardon.
The set honestly doesn't sound so horrible. If you could find space for U-Turn the fact that you have Natural Cure makes it a pretty good pivot, especially into Rotom-W and Slowbro for example, able to absorb Water and Electric attacks for your team (Skarmory appreciates that). Honestly looking at the speed tiers, Modest Celebi doesn't seem to benefit from the speed, as most things it can outspeed it either already has a huge advantage over, or has no business facing in the first place, so it would almost entirely benefit more from max HP.
Celebi@Assault Vest
Natural Cure
Modest 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
~ Giga Drain
~ Psychic
~ Earth Power
~ U-Turn / HP Fire / HP Ice
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 89-105 (22 - 26%) -- 4.3% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 120-142 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- 16.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 75-90 (18.6 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 213-252 (52.8 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 292-344 (91.2 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 152-182 (37.7 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 230-272 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 112-133 (27.7 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 162-192 (54 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 146-174 (36.2 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 212-252 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 308-364 (95 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 146-172 (36.2 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 368-434 (113.9 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Honestly depending on play it looks competent to check many threats that a team may have trouble with, and having a status absorber and additional pivot is always nice. Grass/Psychic is a pretty blech typing overall, but Celebi's good stats and useful resistances to Water, Ground, Electric, Grass, Psychic and Fighting can prove beneficial to a team, and like was said, it's a decent lure for things like Heatran. It's also a direct counter to Quagsire, meaning it'd be a damn good partner for Charizard X. Honestly I'd be willing to give it a shot personally before I write it off. But would it perform better than a specially defensive set with Leftovers and Recover/Thunder Wave/Heal Bell, etc? In general likely not, but I can certainly think of some team archetypes that would benefit from AV Celebi.
Celebi@Assault Vest
Natural Cure
Modest 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
~ Giga Drain
~ Psychic
~ Earth Power
~ U-Turn / HP Fire / HP Ice
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 89-105 (22 - 26%) -- 4.3% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 120-142 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- 16.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 75-90 (18.6 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 213-252 (52.8 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 292-344 (91.2 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 152-182 (37.7 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 230-272 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 112-133 (27.7 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 162-192 (54 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 146-174 (36.2 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Celebi: 212-252 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 308-364 (95 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 146-172 (36.2 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 368-434 (113.9 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Honestly depending on play it looks competent to check many threats that a team may have trouble with, and having a status absorber and additional pivot is always nice. Grass/Psychic is a pretty blech typing overall, but Celebi's good stats and useful resistances to Water, Ground, Electric, Grass, Psychic and Fighting can prove beneficial to a team, and like was said, it's a decent lure for things like Heatran. It's also a direct counter to Quagsire, meaning it'd be a damn good partner for Charizard X. Honestly I'd be willing to give it a shot personally before I write it off. But would it perform better than a specially defensive set with Leftovers and Recover/Thunder Wave/Heal Bell, etc? In general likely not, but I can certainly think of some team archetypes that would benefit from AV Celebi.
- Status