The Movie's Diancie has been revealed, and guess what, no special move. I don't see this thing making a splash on OU. Sadly, such a nice design...
http://serebii.net/events/dex/719.shtml
http://serebii.net/events/dex/719.shtml
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Pokémon Diancie
- Thread starter TheTraininator
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Any rock type is the best talonflame counter around. And guess what? Along with Ice and Psychic Rock is one of the worst types in the game. Defensively speaking it's the second worst type in the game(except for Ice, it's worse than Normal).. oh and guess what? This is supposed to be a defensive pokemon. Put two and two together and you get a (seemingly) very mediocre pokemon. Also, you may say that only two of it's weaknesses are common, but it just sucks that everyone and their mom carries them. Like literally every viable pokemon that has the ability to do damage offensively carries a way to hit this thing super effectively. This is accomplished thanks to being weak to two of the most common attacking moves in the game and then nicely filled out by the other weaknesses on pokemon who can't use either ground or water.
I think you guys are prejudging Diancie way too much. We don't even know what event moves she will be getting for her American or European distribution yet (i'd lol so hard if Diancie was Japanese only, wouldn't put it past GF at all to do something like that to us). Additionally, Diancie will probably be coming out for us closer to the inevitable release of XY's sequels, which means new move tutors.
Tyranitar, Ho-Oh, and numerous other Pokemon have god-awful defensive typings and they can still run effective support/defensive sets. Tyranitar's specially defensive set is even listed on Smogon's official 5th gen analysis page for him. While Diancie is not as threatening as the aforementioned Tyranitar, I think we should be mindful of her other points (Diamond Storm, bulk, usable mixed offensive stats, unique Fairy typing, etc.) before discounting her completely.
Diancie's special bulk will be insane under Sandstorm.
Tyranitar, Ho-Oh, and numerous other Pokemon have god-awful defensive typings and they can still run effective support/defensive sets. Tyranitar's specially defensive set is even listed on Smogon's official 5th gen analysis page for him. While Diancie is not as threatening as the aforementioned Tyranitar, I think we should be mindful of her other points (Diamond Storm, bulk, usable mixed offensive stats, unique Fairy typing, etc.) before discounting her completely.
Diancie's special bulk will be insane under Sandstorm.
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Tyranitar can run effective support/defensive sets, as you put it, because it has a monstrous attack stat, great ability, great movepool all of which let him take advantage of Rocks' great coverage offensively. He is always an offensive threat and has a niche thanks to his special defense boost and dark typing. Tyranitar is basically everything a pokemon with a horrendous typing needs to have to be viable, Diance has none of it.
Rock isn't that bad of a defensive typing, its just somewhat of a double edged sword. While rock is weak to common fighting and ground moves, rock also resists flying, one of the best offensive types at the moment, and fire. In addition sandstorm (which is common seeing that both Hippowdon and Tyranitar are both great mons) helps to patch up (or boost to ridiculous levels in Tyranitars and likely Diancie's case) SpD. In addition rock stab is one of the best in the game, which can help Diancie out even if it runs a defensive set, seeing that it has a respectable 100 Base Atk.
Also, its not that hard to cover for a fighting, rock, and ground weakness, as there are multiple physical walls, such as skarmory, gliscor, landorus-t, and hippowdon that can take these easily.
Also, its not that hard to cover for a fighting, rock, and ground weakness, as there are multiple physical walls, such as skarmory, gliscor, landorus-t, and hippowdon that can take these easily.
And people said Talonflame and Mega-Pinsir were going to be god awful before they were released.
Tyranitar is worn down by multiple U-Turns. Diancie is not.
Don't forget that its mediocre Rock typing is paired with the best defensive typing in the game, Fairy. With it, it can actually beat Fighting types like Infernape and Terrakion. It resists Fire, Bug, Flying, Dark, and Normal, and is immune to Dragon, which all allow it to wall things that mono Rock types cannot.
Deoxys-S, Thundurus-I, Thundurus-T, Deoxys-D, Kyurem-B, Talonflame, Clefable, Gengar, Mandibuzz, Chansey, Skarmory, Zapdos, Conkeldurr, Mega Gardevoir, Gardevoir, Mega Ampharos, Mega Medicham, Sylveon, Mega Heracross, Mega Manectric, Raikou, Tornadus-T, Tornadus, Victini, Volcarona, Mega Absol, Alakazam, Mega Alakazam, Rotom-H, Sableye, Blissey, and Togekiss are all viable Pokemon that (should) never run any move to hit Diancie super effectively. Plus, Diancie is able to hit most of these Pokemon super effectively with its STAB's, and can easily do so, or force a switch so that it can set up screens or Stealth Rocks.
Grass and Steel are both very uncommon, and so it's very obvious when they'll be coming. Water is more common than both, but only because water types, and therefore water STAB, is much more common. Water isn't a terrific offensive typing, and is only used for coverage on Specs Latios, which isn't even that good. I'll give you ground though, but that is easily worked around by having something that Levitates/flies.
Exactly. Same goes for Diggersby.
Like you say, though, Diancie will probably shine the most in Sandstorm teams. Her secondary fairy typing really is a great boon in that it lets her shrug off the common Bug and Fighting attacks that Tyranitar hates taking.
Who cares that it isn't worn down by U-Turn? Diancie is in no way comparable with Tyranitar, whose status in competitive battling is forever set in stone thanks to his aforementioned qualities combined with his constant boosts each new gen.
When talking defensively you can't take into account Rocks' great offensive potential. So yes, Rock is that bad defensively. Just for fun, name one good defensive Rock type in OU. Yeah you can't as it literally takes 134 base attack, great offensive typing, a movepool that rivals any in the game, a great ability and what amounts to 659 base stat total on the switch in just to actually be useful in OU. A defensive rock type that hasn't been stuffed to the gills with gifts from the creators themselves will never be viable in OU.
The best talonflame counter is magcargo, has reliable recovery (unlike diancie), resist all moves, except steel wing which is neutral. Magcargo also hit diancie hard with stab ancientpower. Magcargo also has great defenses and resists Fire, bug, flying, poison and is only weak to three common attacking types, still magcargo isnt ou, wonder why....
What point are you trying to make? Marcargo has terrible typing as its weak to SR, 4* to ground, water, and weak to fighting. It also has 190 base point total less than Diancie.
I just dont see Diancie being viable in ou. Maybe as a niche, but it has horrible movepool, mediocre attacking stats, mediocre defensive typing. It is great against fire types, but Charizards kill it with EQ or solarbeam and heatran with earthpower or flash cannon. It will be great in uu against darmanitan, victini and arcanine but ou is not the right place for it.
This is from the first official discussion of Gen 6. Clearly, early assumptions aren't always correct. I don't think assigning a tier to something unreleased is something worth doing, because we have no idea how it will play out. Diamond Storm is an amazing move, as is Moonblast. Its typing has 4 weaknesses, 5 resistances, and 1 immunity. That's all we know.
At that point people didnt really know what the overall metagame was gonna be like, unlike now. It is much easier to predict how pokes are gonna work since the meta is balanced. Also people didnt realize/ know about power up punch which is the thing that made M-kangaskhan broken
People like you make me wish this forum had a report button.
But anyways Diancie definently does seem preety good in UU, and I will probably use it, problem is that I don't know which poke to replace
Honestly, that base 50 speed is really depressing.
Diancie has great offensive typing (haha, fuck you Charizard, Thundurus, and Talonflame)! Oh wait, 50 base speed. Right. Charizard can win against that (assuming ZardX runs EQ, and Solar Beam from Modest might OHKO(?)).
This will make a good balanced pokemon, but the lack of recovery will probably make it a lackluster stall pokemon as well (just look at Regirock and Registeel). Volcarion got the best deal out of the trio for sure.
Diancie has great offensive typing (haha, fuck you Charizard, Thundurus, and Talonflame)! Oh wait, 50 base speed. Right. Charizard can win against that (assuming ZardX runs EQ, and Solar Beam from Modest might OHKO(?)).
This will make a good balanced pokemon, but the lack of recovery will probably make it a lackluster stall pokemon as well (just look at Regirock and Registeel). Volcarion got the best deal out of the trio for sure.
So the full data for the three XY event legendaries has been leaked, including TM/HM list, confirmed stats and all the rest... Serebii have added it to their site.
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/719.shtml
Looks like it's coverage is every bit as disappointing as we thought it would be, unfortunately :(
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/719.shtml
Looks like it's coverage is every bit as disappointing as we thought it would be, unfortunately :(
Diancie's problem is that diamond storm is physical but it learns no physical fairy move, and moonblast is special and it learns no special rock move besides lolancientpower. So it's forced to run one or the other.
I still will never understand why diamond storm is physical when everything about it screams special
The Assault Vest set in the OP is only 3HKO'd by Timid Mega Zard Y's Solarbeam, and OHKOs back with Diamond Storm. Physically defensive also handles Mega Zard X very well, being only 3HKO'd by Earthquake, 2HKO'd after a DD I believe, but maybe not after Leftovers.
Also, if everyone could check the sets in the OP and comment on those, that'd be nice.
I really wouldn't run AV diancie due to lack of power (and having to split attacking evs), horrible coverage outside of stab moves, lack of recovery and bad speed.
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I was thinking of a Modest Diancie and I all I got was this:
Diancie
Ability: Clear Body
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 S.Atk / 152 HP / 104 Def
-Moon Blast
-Ancient Power
-Psychic
-HP Fire / HP Fighting
It needs work and was wondering if people could help me make a better version of this.
Diancie
Ability: Clear Body
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 S.Atk / 152 HP / 104 Def
-Moon Blast
-Ancient Power
-Psychic
-HP Fire / HP Fighting
It needs work and was wondering if people could help me make a better version of this.
Maybe try using Calm Mind and/or Trick Room somewhere? Or maybe you can use an Assault Vest instead of a Life Orb.
Was thinking maybe replacing Psychic with Calm mind would do but that would mean I need to keep the Life Orb.
Leftovers would be better if you're setting up for more longevity, as you're already boosting your power with Calm Mind if you do decide to use that.
Hopefully Diancie is given some pretty nice moves through move tutor; I'm personally hoping for Play Rough and Earth Power, if we're lucky maybe something unexpected through event as well (Geomancy and Recover *Fingers Crossed*).
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