DISCUSSION: Tournament Idea

[WaterBomb]

Alright, I was trying to think of a unique type of tournament to host. I definitely didn't want to do OU, and UU tournies are common. Didn't want to do a version specific tourney either, so the idea I came up with was an interesting one. Instead of banning certain pokemon, I ban certain MOVES. For example, Salamence and Gyarados are allowed. But what good would they be without Earthquake and Dragon Dance? What good would Blissey be without Heal Bell and Softboiled? You'd take these into consideration before using these normally great pokemon. My whole point of this tournament is to get people to be creative. There are so many moves out there that never get used. I want to see people think for themselves. Maybe even use OU pokemon, but with uncommon movesets.

Now, I'm going to make a brainstorming list of what moves I originally had in mind to ban. Feel free to post suggestions on moves that you think should be banned that are not, or ones that are banned but shouldn't be. Inevitably I'll miss some, so your suggestions are very welcome.

One final thing: Please don't act like an imbecile in this topic. I am serious about hosting this tournament, and am looking for constructive input. Don't give me any of this "Ban Splash it's uber" or "Ban all attacking moves" bullshit. As of right now I am only banning certain MOVES. I might decide to ban a few items, depending on how the discussion goes.

Here's the list of moves I'd be banning (brainstorm):

Earthquake
Return/Frustration
Double-Edge
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Shadow Ball
Dragon Dance
Calm Mind
Curse
Bulk Up
Swords Dance
Toxic
Heal Bell/Aromatherapy* - I'm trying to decide between this one and the one below it.
Softboiled/Milk Drink*
Explosion
Perish Song
Focus Punch
Substitute
Leech Seed
Belly Drum
Cosmic Power
Rock Slide
Hidden Power
Flail/Reversal


Ok, keep in mind this is OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. I'm sure I've forgotten some blatant moves that probably should be banned. This is why I'm taking suggestions. This concludes the intro. Let the discussion begin!

EDIT: T-Wave, Sludge Bomb, and Spikes are no longer banned.

 

[The Plant]

didn't AA have this idea already. About not say letting gengar use focus punch or w/e.

 

[goofball]

no hp
no sub
no stat ups
no recovery moves

are pretty much what i want

 

[gene]

no hidden power

but allow all normal attacking moves, it would be sort of like rby

 

[moomoonerd]

I guess this would sort of go along with mods. Even if he already came up with the idea, I think this would be a fun tournament that I might actually stand a chance in. I'm just going to randomly spew out ideas. They might not all be good.

- I actually thinking banning items would make it more creative, but the only items I can see banned are Leftovers, Choice Band, and maybe Lum Berry.
- Banning Hidden Power might be interesting, but it will be pretty hard to make decent movesets without it.
- IMO Swords Dance should replace Bulk Up. Bulk Up is almost never used.
- If you ban Heal Bell, you may want to ban Aromatherapy because of Blissey.
- Banning Rest would make it much more offensive.
- Banning Roar would force people to use Haze, Perish Song, Screech, and other ways to force them out.
- Flamethrower
- Thunder Wave (probably more commonly used than Toxic)
- Psychic?
- Surf?
- With the special 95 base power moves banned, people will probably just use their 120 base power counterparts. I don't know if that would be better or worse.
- Rock Slide maybe.

Actually, I think your list is good as it is. Because I'm bored, I'm going to take a look at OUs and see how dramatically this changes the metagame.

edit: Do you plan to ban ubers?
edit2: I took a look at some Pokemon and it seems like most of them are able to work around their limited movepools with Hidden power. For example, you could still have a CBMence with Aerial Ace/HP [Ground]/Rock Slide/Flamethrower. It was nice to see Celebi pretty limited movepool-wise, though.
edit3: With Hidden Power they are still doing less damage, though!

 

[Carl]

Let's ban all moves except Metronome! Oh wait..

 

[moomoonerd]

If you're referring to my list (you probably are), I didn't intend for most of them to be used. I admit I should remove a lot of those, though.

Also, if you ban Return don't forget to ban Frustration.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Or we could just ban every single moveset that's listed in the Smogon dex...so you can still use some key moves, but you gotta be original none the less, and I assume Smogon dex pretty much covers up all standard and near standard sets.

Also instead of banning items, wouldn't it be more interesting to have item clause instead?

 

[moomoonerd]

Ya, Item Clause sounds better now that I think about it. Banning the movesets on Smogon Dex seems ok, too, but it's a lot easier. You can just have a Heal Belling Blissey, Restless Skarm, a Salamence with Aerial Ace, CBGross with HP [Rock], RestTalk Milotic, etc. I'm fine either way, though.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Well banning sets on dex and similar movesets, like exchanging hpfly for aerial ace still counts, seeing as how you're basically using the same thing, so that'll be banned too. This isn't "be a smartass and change one move" kinda thing. =/

 

[WaterBomb]

Guys I'm not trying to ban EVERYTHING here. Trying to ban "sets on smogon" gets too confusing and too ambiguous. It's much easier to just ban individual moves. Earthquake I think will be the single most impacting ban in the tournament. I just wanted to see what alternatives people would come up with. I've edited in a couple more moves (Swords Dance, T-Wave) to the original list. Keep those suggestions coming!

 

[Zero]

You are basically suggesting a 'MOD database' sort of thing, which AAMS already has and you can set up your own modded server as well.

I don't see the point in a tournament because nobody will be able to agree on the changes.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

How about banning Lefties and CB? ;x

 

[ATHFfreak]

I did this sorta thing on AA's server(I called it the random ban tourney) and some were really funny, like one guy had to use Ampharos but couldnt use TBolt <_<

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Eh..if we're banning only moves..I fail to see why Rest and Sleep Talk are not on the list...

 

[Arcturus]

I think a better idea would be:

You can only use a certain move once per team. So only one pokemon can have Rest, Tbolt, etc. It would make people have to use different moves in order to stay on top, and I think it can be extremely doable.

 

[Raikou21]

How about a nominating and voting round? That way not as many people will complain.

 

[Pax Deorum]

Just remove all moves that ca support stalling to make it a bit more offensive along with removing the most powerful moves abused by things like Mence.

 

[WaterBomb]

Another idea I was toying with was to require that pokemon only use moves they learn NATURALLY. Does anyone know if there's a way to mod this on NetBattle?

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Heracross learns Megahorn and Reversal naturally..this shall be interesting...

 

[Syberia]

It can't Endure or Substitute, though.

 

[giga]

good idea!

 

[Pilocus]

maybe rest talk, and frustration is the same as return, so ban that too.

 

[Mekkah]

I say stick to the original idea of banning moves. Not many people have gone to AA's mod server, and you do not need mods to do this really. I don't think you should ban too much though, maybe just 20 or so, which would imo be (in no order)

1. Rest
2. Earthquake
3. Hidden Power
4. Return/Frustration
5. Explosion (Selfdestruct)
6. Rock Slide
7. Softboiled/Recover/lol Milk Drink
8. Sleep Talk
9. Thunderbolt
10. Flamethrower
11. Fire Blast
12. Ice Beam
13. Substitute
14. Focus Punch
15. Megahorn
16. Surf
17. Spikes (no point in banning Rapid Spin)
18. Dragon Dance
19. Swords Dance
20. Calm Mind

 

[moomoonerd]

The problem with banning Sleep Talk is that it makes sleep quite a bit harder to take care of (it's still possible - you just have to find a beller, Imsomniac, or Early Bird). Without Rest it really won't be used much anyways.

I think Mekkah's list is pretty good, though. The only additions I can think of are Thunder Wave, Toxic, and Leech Seed.