Resource Don't Use That; Use This (ORAS Version)

[Aragorn the King]

Approved by Alexwolf

Art by boxofkangaroos | Original Thread by Magnemite

The purpose of this thread is to educate newer players about which Pokemon and sets are good, which Pokemon and sets aren't, and why. This will ultimately lead to a better playerbase. Here is an example of how you should format your responses:

Don't use this:

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spd / 192 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Why it's bad:

While MixMence was an absolute monster in previous generations, it has fallen from grace in XY. Its coverage, which was once considered unwallable, now leaves it unable to break some of the most common walls in OU, such as Sylveon, Clefable, or Togekiss. In addition, Salamence's once highly sought-after power is now a bit lackluster for OU standards. In addition, there are now quite a few Pokemon that completely outclass it. One such example is...

Instead, use this:

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SAtk / 56 Atk / 200 Spd
Mild Nature
- Roost
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam

Why it's better:

Kyurem-B is everything MixMence ever hoped it could be and more. It is an absolute terror to stall teams, with its great coverage, sky-high base 170 and 120 mixed attacking stats, and excellent ability in Teravolt, all of which allow Kyurem-B to be one of the greatest wallbreakers in OU. Its Teravolt ability lets it bypass Mega Venusaur's Thick Fat and Rotom-W's Levitate to be able to 2HKO both of them. It's no slouch against offensive teams, either. It has the coverage to rip through Landorus-T, Gliscor, Azumarill, and Togekiss, while it has the raw power to break Clefable and Sylveon. All of these Pokemon can cause Salamence major issues, while Kyurem-B has little trouble with any of them.

Archive

Don't use this:

Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance

Use this:

Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Don't use this:

Jolteon @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch

Instead, use this:

Raikou @ Assault Vest
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Extrasensory / Shadow Ball

Don't use this:

Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Earthquake
- Roar / Dragon Tail
- Heavy Slam

Instead, use this:

Aggron@ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Roar / Dragon Tail
- Heavy Slam

Don't use this:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Baton Pass / Toxic / Roar / Heal Bell

Use this instead:

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 32 HP / 224 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic/Knock Off

Don't use this:

Audino @ Audinite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Dazzling Gleam

Use this:

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

Don't use this:

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Use this:

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 36 HP / 220 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic / Knock Off

Don't use this:

Florges (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Wish

Use this:

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect

i swear to god if i see one more ninjask

(PLEASE) Don't use:

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature

- Swords Dance / Harden
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- Substitute

Use this instead:

Scolipede @ Leftovers
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

- Swords Dance / Iron Defense
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Protect / Megahorn

Don't use this:

Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

Use this:

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Slack Off

Don't use either of these:

Instead, use one of these:

OR

Kurona

Don't use this:

Use these instead:

Don't use this:

Heliolisk @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Voice
- Surf
- Volt Switch

Use this:

Raikou @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- HP Ice
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball

Don't use These:

Use these instead:

Don't use this:

Use this instead:

Don't use this:

Weakness Policy + Dragon Dance


Use this instead:

Choice Band + Extremespeed


Or...

Why it's better:

FOR STICKY WEB TEAMS, Don't use:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Taunt / Focus Blast

Instead use:

Thundurus-T @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature

- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Focus Blast


OR

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 72 Atk / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild / Naive Nature

- Thunderbolt / Wild Charge
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power Ice

Don't use this:

Use this instead:

FOR GOD'S SAKE, DO NOT FUCKING USE:

Electivire @ Life Orb
Trait: Motor Drive
EVs: 56 Atk / 200 SpA / 252 Spe or 140 Atk / 116 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature

- Thunderbolt / Wild Charge
- Flamethrower
- Cross Chop
- Ice Punch

Instead use this:

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Mild Nature

- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

[/quote]

Don't use this:

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Return/Aromatherapy
- Play Rough
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch

Instead use this:

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough/SuperPower
- Waterfall/Knock Off

FOR NON-SAND TEAMS

Don't use:

Garchomp @ Garchompite
Trait: Rough Skin ---> Sand Force
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature

- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Instead use:

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Naive Nature

- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- HP Fire / Fusion Bolt

Don't use this:

Use these instead:

DO NOT EVER USE THIS:

Gengar @ whatever
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Dark Pulse
- whatever
- whatever


Instead, use this:

Gengar @ whatever
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Bomb
- whatever
- whatever

Don't use this:

Charizard@Charizardite Y
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest nature
-Fire Blast
-Solar Beam
-Focus Blast
-Air Slash

Try using this:

Charizard@Charizardite Y
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest nature
-Fire Blast
-Solar Beam
-Focus Blast
-Dragon Pulse/Roost/Will-O-Wisp/SOMETHING THAT MAY HAVE SOME USE

Don't Use This:

Ambipom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Low Kick
- Knock Off

Use This:

Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch

Don't use this:

Use this instead:

Don't Use This:

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Payback
- Moonlight/Wish
- Heal Bell

Use These:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Defog
- Taunt

Slurpuff @ Salac Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Play Rough

Use this instead:

Chesnaught @ Salac Berry
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb

Don't use this:

Ferrothorn @ whatever
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: whatever
whatever Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Gyro Ball
- whatever
- whatever

Instead, use this:

Ferrothorn @ whatever
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: whatever
whatever Nature
- Thunder Wave/Gyro Ball
- whatever
- whatever
- whatever

Don't use this:

Hide

Terrakion @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Taunt

Use this instead:

Hide

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Explosion / Fire Blast
- Skill Swap

Don't Use This

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock

Use This

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Stealth Rock

Don't use this:

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Levitate | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe | Jolly
Earthquake | Outrage/Dragon Claw | U-turn | Fire Punch
Use these instead:

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Rough Skin | 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe | Jolly / Naive
Outrage | Earthquake | Rock Slide / Stone Edge | Dragon Claw / Fire Blast

Kyurem-B @ Choice Scarf
Teravolt | 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe | Naive
Outrage | Dragon Claw | Fusion Bolt | Ice Beam / Iron Head

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Intimidate | 252 Atk / 24 Dfc / 232 Spe | Jolly
Earthquake | U-turn | Stone Edge | Superpower / Knock Off

Or...

set

Flygon @ Leftovers
Levitate | 208 HP / 148 Def / 152 Spe | Naive
Earthquake | Defog | Roost | Fire Blast

Don't use this:

with Water Pulse or Dragon Pulse

Instead, use this:

with Scald/Hydro Pump or Ice Beam, respectively

Don't use this:

Machamp @ Assault Vest
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch/Stone Edge/Earthquake

~Moveset improvised from February Usage Stats


Use this instead:

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts/Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 236 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off/Ice Punch
- Poison Jab/Stone Edge

Don't use this:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Charge Beam
- whatever

Instead, use this:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower / other coverage move [/qupte

Don't use this:

16 HP/252 SpA/240 Spd


Use this instead:

4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
Why it's better:

Rules:
- Don't use this thread just to bash certain Pokemon.
- Make sure your examples are relevant.
- Please stay on topic.
- Make sure to back up your arguments with relevant information. As in more than just a sentence or two.
- DON'T post about...

I. Viable Pokemon
For the most part, refrain from telling people not to use things that have niche uses in OU. For example, "Don't Use Entei ----> Use Victini!" Overall, yes, Victini is a better physically offensive Pokemon than Entei. However, if you're opting to use Entei, it's because of Sacred Fire and Extreme Speed, two things you aren't getting anywhere else. However, it's totally fine if you're telling me not to use a set of a Pokemon viable in OU. For example, Don't Use Offensive Arcanine ----> Use Entei! Arcanine's defensive set is what makes it viable, and it's fine if you want to tell people not to use Life Orb Arcanine.

OR

II. Dissimilar Pokemon
This thread is supposed to be Apples:Apples (aka Role:Role), not Apples:Oranges. For example, yes, Landorus, Mega Sableye, and Reuniclus all can run Calm Mind. However, thanks to their different typings, stats, and abilities, they all function incredibly differently. You can't just take a team with CM Reuniclus, and say "hmm, Sableye > Reuniclus in general", and then say "Don't Use Reuniclus, Use Sableye!" It doesn't work that way. Similarly, on a team, you can't just take Extreme Speed Lucario, replace it with Extreme Speed Dragonite, and call it a day.

To put it in perspective, say I have a full team with Mandibuzz as my Landorus check and defogger, and find the team incredibly Mega Pinsir weak. By replacing Mandibuzz with Zapdos, you retain a Defogger and a Landorus check while gaining a Pinsir check. Thus, the switch is pretty beneficial for your team. This thread is NOT for that. It's more for switching Mega Charizard X as a defogger with either a better defogger or a better Charizard set.

 

[Albacore]

Don't use this:

Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance

Why it's bad:

Although Shadow Sneak might seem like a good idea on Mega-Gallade as a way to to pick off faster foes and priority users, in practice it is very rarely useful, simply because of how weak it is. For instance, even at +2 it deals pathetic damage to the likes of Mega-Sceptile (~50%), Thunsurus-I (~50%) Mega-Aerodactyl (~38%), Mega-Pinsir (~35%), Azumarill (~35%), Greninja (~27%), Scarf Magnezone (~36%), Scarf Garchomp (~33%), Scarf Landorus-T (~28%), even Mega-Beedrill, the frailest common Pokemon in the tier, isn't OHKO'd by it. Not to mention it deals zero damage to Mega-Lopunny, and isn't saving you from Talonflame who outspeeds your own priority. This all means that you need to get yourself in a situation where all of these Pokemon are weakened to a point where +2 Shadow Sneak kills them, and you are able to get to +2 in the first place, which is extremely unlikely to happen. Although it can help secure Speed ties with Lati@s and Gengar, the fact that it needs to be at +2 to even deal good damage to these makes it extremely situational, and a lot of these Pokemon aren't rising the speed tie anyway. The only notable thing it does is OHKO Starmie and Mega-Alakazam at +2, but even then, Gallade always beats Stramie 1v1 and usually beats Alakazam 1v1 too since it takes a Shadow Ball and has a very good chance to OHKO back with what you should be running, which is :

Use this :

Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Why it's good:

Mega-Gallade is a wallbreaker first and a sweeper second, and Knock Off is necessary if Gallade wants to break past bulky Psychics such as Mew, Slowbro, Celebi, and Cressalia. It also holds great utility, being able to knock off items such as Choice Scarfes and Leftovers. More importantly, it doesn't need a boost to be worth using, it already scores an OHKO on Gengar and Latios without even needing to set up. All in all, Knock Off is a far more useful move on Mega-Gallade than Shadow Sneak and comes in handy way, way more often.

 

[heritage]

Don't use this:

Jolteon @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch

Why it's bad:

Jolteon isn't per-say bad, it's simply not great in OU. It does possess a blistering 130 Speed, allowing it to outspeed a lot of the new Megas, but other than that, its stats are simply medicore. Any physical attack will do a huge chunk to it, while it's Special Attack, while decent, is pretty lacking when you get down to it. It doesn't have the power, even with a Life Orb, to hit targets it needs hard enough, since its bulk is so terrible. With no reliable recovery, all the damage it takes from the Life Orb will only drain from its poor HP stat. It most likely won't take a strong STAB attack from nost things in the tier. Even its Special Defense, while not awful, still leave a lot to be desired.


Instead, use this:

Raikou @ Assault Vest
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Extrasensory / Shadow Ball

Why it's better:

Raikou completely outshines Jolteon in almost every aspect. While its Speed may not be as high, everything else is simply better. Is boasts a 115 Special Attack stat, and pretty good 90 / 75 / 100 bulk for a special sweeper. With the addition of an Assault Vest, it makes it a safe one-time switch in to Dragalge's Draco Meteor and A Modest Charizard Y's Fire Blast in the sun. These are some of the most powerful Special Attacks in the game. Its Speed, while not as good as Jolteon, still allow it to outspeed things it really want to, like the Lati twins and Gengar, and it can Speed tie with the now crowded 115 Speed tier.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Don't use this:

Jolteon @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch

Why it's bad:

Jolteon isn't per-say bad, it's simply not great in OU. It does possess a blistering 130 Speed, allowing it to outspeed a lot of the new Megas, but other than that, its stats are simply medicore. Any physical attack will do a huge chunk to it, while it's Special Attack, while decent, is pretty lacking when you get down to it. It doesn't have the power, even with a Life Orb, to hit targets it needs hard enough, since its bulk is so terrible. With no reliable recovery, all the damage it takes from the Life Orb will only drain from its poor HP stat. It most likely won't take a strong STAB attack from nost things in the tier. Even its Special Defense, while not awful, still leave a lot to be desired.


Instead, use this:

Raikou @ Assault Vest
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Extrasensory / Shadow Ball

Why it's better:

Raikou completely outshines Jolteon in almost every aspect. While its Speed may not be as high, everything else is simply better. Is boasts a 115 Special Attack stat, and pretty good 90 / 75 / 100 bulk for a special sweeper. With the addition of an Assault Vest, it makes it a safe one-time switch in to Dragalge's Draco Meteor and A Modest Charizard Y's Fire Blast in the sun. These are some of the most powerful Special Attacks in the game. Its Speed, while not as good as Jolteon, still allow it to outspeed things it really want to, like the Lati twins and Gengar, and it can Speed tie with the now crowded 115 Speed tier.

Honestly Jolteon isn't outclassed by Raikou, but by Mega Manectric... which takes up a mega slot.

Raikou can't outspeed Greninja, ScarfTar, Scarf Magnezone or even more obscure threats like Weavile and Torn-T. Jolteon also hits harder than Raikou and can get past Celebi and most +1 Mega Gyara. The problem with Jolteon is that it just fails to perform in the metagame, what with the priority abuse, Mega Zard X/Altaria and the existence of Mega Manectric, which pretty much does its job better.

Also Specs > LO

 

[heritage]

Honestly Jolteon isn't outclassed by Raikou, but by Mega Manectric... which takes up a mega slot.

Raikou can't outspeed Greninja, ScarfTar, Scarf Magnezone or even more obscure threats like Weavile and Torn-T. Jolteon also hits harder than Raikou and can get past Celebi and most +1 Mega Gyara. The problem with Jolteon is that it just fails to perform in the metagame, what with the priority abuse, Mega Zard X/Altaria and the existence of Mega Manectric, which pretty much does its job better.

Also Specs > LO

Raikou is a generally safe switch in to Greninja to anything other than Gunk Shot anyways, so that doesn't matter. Magnezone can't do anything back to Raikou either. Raikou can run a Scarf set with Aura Sphere if it really wants to. A lot of the Pokemon you used as examples, like Torn-T, Raikou beats one on one anyways, so those points are not good
I only mentioned Raikou over Mega Manectric because I didn't want to use my Mega Slot.
And if you're defending Jolteon then that's a problem.

 

[BlueLobster]

May I ask why the example Kyu-B doesn't have Outrage/Dragon Claw? It might have bad coverage but it's the most powerful STAB it has.

 

[Pikachuun]

May I ask why the example Kyu-B doesn't have Outrage/Dragon Claw? It might have bad coverage but it's the most powerful STAB it has.

The things you want to hit with Dragon Claw/Outrage are hit with Ice Beam (and in some cases like Dragonite, they're hit harder by Ice Beam). The recovery of Roost, the ability to hit Rotom-W hard with Earth Power, and the coverage that Fusion Bolt provides are too great to pass up as well. I suppose if you wanted to, you could slash Dragon Claw with Fusion Bolt or Earth Power, but you're missing out on those bulky Waters that otherwise you would've cleaned up with Fusion Bolt, or Rotom Wash, which is exceptionally important to hit. Basically Kyub has 4MSS and those are the most valuable moves on this type of set.

 

[Kurona]

Having trouble accepting a don't-use-that-use-this thread until we get a century-long donphan argument.
Anyway, I do find it hard to write eloquently and I don't have the best experience, but I feel I need to get this across.

Don't use this:

Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Earthquake
- Roar / Dragon Tail
- Heavy Slam

Why it's bad:

The reasons I'm going to put here do apply to pretty much every Mega Steelix set imaginable unless I've missed something amazing in it's movepool, to be honest. Mega Steelix is simply a Pokémon that finds itself outclassed at everything it tries to do. At first glance it seems like a solid improvement; buffs to both it's defences and an unexpected buff to attack makes it a decent wall with offensive presence. And that's where the pros end. For whatever reason, it was decided that the best ability for this thing was Sand Force, which as a wall it will never use, it has a relatively bare bones movepool with the generic support options you see here and nothing for longetivity, and while it does have some sort of offensive presence... 125 attack with no boosts is very mediocre by Mega standards in OU. Onto it's typing, Steel is of course always good, always great... but Ground only offers it a block to Volt Switch in reality and there's a lot of better ground types around to do that. And finally, you have opportunity cost. Mega Steelix is, of course, a Mega and takes up your Mega Slot, and there's very few things it can effectively do - if any - without being outclassed by another defensive Mega. With that said...

Instead, use this:

Aggron@ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Roar / Dragon Tail
- Heavy Slam

Why it's better:
Not gonna pretend for a second like Mega Aggron is one of the best Megas in OU, nor am I going to pretend this is a brilliant set for it -- the point trying to be made here is that Mega Aggron is simply an improvement in almost every single way. On offensive presence... admittedly, Mega Steelix does have the better end of the deal here. Despite Aggron actually having higher attack, Mega Steelix' weight is about double Mega Aggron's, meaning it'll do more with Heavy Slam, and it does have a secondary STAB. Unfortunately, that's not quite enough to cut it, especially for a wall. Mega Aggron has enough offensive pressure and isn't really craving much more; it's still heavier than like 90% of every Pokémon and definitely more than everything in OU besides Megagross, and STAB plus 140 base attack on a move that has no immunities is offensive pressure most walls would die for, so Mega Steelix's increased offensive pressure... is relatively redundant. Meanwhile, in the taking hits department, Aggron does extraordinarily better - it has no secondary typing holding it back, meaning it has less neutralities and more resistances than Steelix, and doesn't have the very annoying water weakness either. In addition, it of course has the excellent ability Filter, letting it shrug off a ton of super-effective hits Steelix would simply die to. The only loss is a volt switch immunity, which... can be done a lot better by any of your other five members without losing too much. It's movepool... yeah, pretty generic, but again Steelix doesn't really have anything over it, and Aggron also has the ability to spread Paralysis if it so wishes. Mega Aggron has a ton of problems in OU, I'll never deny that, but the simple fact is it's overall better at walling than Mega Steelix ever could be, and I guarantee that any walling job you want Mega Steelix to fulfill on your team, this C-rank Pokémon can do it a lot better.

Of course, Mega Steelix isn't just used as a wall, people do try to take advantage of it's ability and low speed for sand teams and trick room teams respectively. Without going into like two more of these, I'll just say that these roles find themselves completely outclassed as well -- sand by Excadrill and Mega Garchomp and Trick Room by... just about any slow Pokémon with better STAB and attack. Which there are a lot of.

 

[boxofkangaroos]

Aragorn the King, what Pokémon would you like as the "mascot" of this thread? I'd love to make some banner art for it.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Aragorn the King, what Pokémon would you like as the "mascot" of this thread? I'd love to make some banner art for it.

Wow, that'd be awesome! Hmm, there are so many good choices.

If you're willing to put two Pokemon in the banner, Alomomola (good) and Vaporeon (bad) [hint, hint; someone should write that up!!] would be really cool! If you only wanna do one, just a sad Vaporeon would also be great!

Anyway, thanks Kurona, Albacore, and Recreant for three really good entries!

 

[Kurona]

Don't use this:

Jolteon @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch

Why it's bad:

Jolteon isn't per-say bad, it's simply not great in OU. It does possess a blistering 130 Speed, allowing it to outspeed a lot of the new Megas, but other than that, its stats are simply medicore. Any physical attack will do a huge chunk to it, while it's Special Attack, while decent, is pretty lacking when you get down to it. It doesn't have the power, even with a Life Orb, to hit targets it needs hard enough, since its bulk is so terrible. With no reliable recovery, all the damage it takes from the Life Orb will only drain from its poor HP stat. It most likely won't take a strong STAB attack from nost things in the tier. Even its Special Defense, while not awful, still leave a lot to be desired.


Instead, use this:

Raikou @ Assault Vest
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Extrasensory / Shadow Ball

Why it's better:

Raikou completely outshines Jolteon in almost every aspect. While its Speed may not be as high, everything else is simply better. Is boasts a 115 Special Attack stat, and pretty good 90 / 75 / 100 bulk for a special sweeper. With the addition of an Assault Vest, it makes it a safe one-time switch in to Dragalge's Draco Meteor and A Modest Charizard Y's Fire Blast in the sun. These are some of the most powerful Special Attacks in the game. Its Speed, while not as good as Jolteon, still allow it to outspeed things it really want to, like the Lati twins and Gengar, and it can Speed tie with the now crowded 115 Speed tier.

Minor nitpick, and to be honest this actually is another boon to Raikou, but I wouldn't say 115 is 'crowded'. The only other thing in there to my memory is Mega Absol, while ORAS didn't add any 115s aside from Mega Ray lol. Instead, I'd say that it can now outspeed the now crowded 110 tier.

Edit: Starmie, Azelf and Mega Houndoom also occupy the 115 speed tier but y'know. Point still stands.

 

[JackTheGordie]

Haven't been following the metagame in a while so what change happened that Kyu-B now runs Roost over Sub on the mixed Wallbreaker set?

 

[boxofkangaroos]

Wow, that'd be awesome! Hmm, there are so many good choices.

If you're willing to put two Pokemon in the banner, Alomomola (good) and Vaporeon (bad) [hint, hint; someone should write that up!!] would be really cool! If you only wanna do one, just a sad Vaporeon would also be great!

Anyway, thanks Kurona, Albacore, and Recreant for three really good entries!

I made this. What do you think?

 

[Aragorn the King]

I made this. What do you think?

God-tier

Thanks so much!

e: JackTheGordie Kyurem-B is used now more as a wallbreaker than a utility check to certain stall mons. The LO lets it do much more damage to stall teams, and Roost is used over Substitute to heal you back to full (LO + SR wears you down fast).

 

[DragonAscent]

Hey, um....so, I'm pretty new here. I was going to ask this at the simple questions/answers thing, but it said "X/Y." So, naturally, a thread all about outclassed 'mons came to mind. It's about the blacklisted fellas in the ORAS viability ranking thread (I'd post there, but I don't want to be crucified); florges is outclassed by every fairy cleric ever, I completely understand, but donphan, heliolisk, and darmanitan all seem usable to me. Donphan isn't weak to fire, ground, or fighting, has ice shard (which hits a ton of things super effectively), seed bomb, knock off, and even gunk shot to differentiate itself from exca. Darm is pretty quick and hits like a truck and gets the coveted u-turn, which entei (which apparently renders the monkey useless) cannot boast, and heliolisk's got a handy water immunity, ability to run specs of scarf, surf, grass knot, focus blast, dark pulse, glare, stab hyper voice, and passable special bulk. Like...those sound D-rank to me. Just niche enough. I dunno. Sorry for cluttering the thread, guys.

 

[JackTheGordie]

Kyurem-B is used now more as a wallbreaker than a utility check to certain stall mons. The LO lets it do much more damage to stall teams, and Roost is used over Substitute to heal you back to full (LO + SR wears you down fast).

Didn't even notice it was running a life orb.....Wow i'm dumb. Thank you though.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Hey, um....so, I'm pretty new here. I was going to ask this at the simple questions/answers thing, but it said "X/Y." So, naturally, a thread all about outclassed 'mons came to mind. It's about the blacklisted fellas in the ORAS viability ranking thread (I'd post there, but I don't want to be crucified); florges is outclassed by every fairy cleric ever, I completely understand, but donphan, heliolisk, and darmanitan all seem usable to me. Donphan isn't weak to fire, ground, or fighting, has ice shard (which hits a ton of things super effectively), seed bomb, knock off, and even gunk shot to differentiate itself from exca. Darm is pretty quick and hits like a truck and gets the coveted u-turn, which entei (which apparently renders the monkey useless) cannot boast, and heliolisk's got a handy water immunity, ability to run specs of scarf, surf, grass knot, focus blast, dark pulse, glare, stab hyper voice, and passable special bulk. Like...those sound D-rank to me. Just niche enough. I dunno. Sorry for cluttering the thread, guys.

The big reason is that there is a difference between being having a viable niche and simply being different. Almost all Pokemon can find a way to have similar roles to something in OU and yet have something that makes them different. That does not equate to having a viable niche. Yes, Darmanitan has U-Turn and high attack, but it is incredibly frail and HAS to run a scarf to avoid being outpaced and outright killed. Heliosk is just too frail to merit its use, and an immunity to water does not fix the fact that it as frail as Greninja. I don't want to clutter the thread, so if you want you can PM me about it for more detail, but ultimately the things that make them different are not really niches that merit them being put on the viability list.

 

[boxofkangaroos]

I realized I screwed up the title. Hah.

Here's the fixed version.

 

[Kurona]

Just wondering, perhaps many of the examples posted in XY don't use this should be posted here, as a large majority would still be relevant?

 

[Taliheim]

Don't use this:

Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance

Why it's bad:

Although Shadow Sneak might seem like a good idea on Mega-Gallade as a way to to pick off faster foes and priority users, in practice it is very rarely useful, simply because of how weak it is. For instance, even at +2 it deals pathetic damage to the likes of Mega-Sceptile (~50%), Thunsurus-I (~50%) Mega-Aerodactyl (~38%), Mega-Pinsir (~35%), Azumarill (~35%), Greninja (~27%), Scarf Magnezone (~36%), Scarf Garchomp (~33%), Scarf Landorus-T (~28%), even Mega-Beedrill, the frailest common Pokemon in the tier, isn't OHKO'd by it. Not to mention it deals zero damage to Mega-Lopunny, and isn't saving you from Talonflame who outspeeds your own priority. This all means that you need to get yourself in a situation where all of these Pokemon are weakened to a point where +2 Shadow Sneak kills them, and you are able to get to +2 in the first place, which is extremely unlikely to happen. Although it can help secure Speed ties with Lati@s and Gengar, the fact that it needs to be at +2 to even deal good damage to these makes it extremely situational, and a lot of these Pokemon aren't rising the speed tie anyway. The only notable thing it does is OHKO Starmie and Mega-Alakazam at +2, but even then, Gallade always beats Stramie 1v1 and usually beats Alakazam 1v1 too since it takes a Shadow Ball and has a very good chance to OHKO back with what you should be running, which is :

Use this :

Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Why it's good:

Mega-Gallade is a wallbreaker first and a sweeper second, and Knock Off is necessary if Gallade wants to break past bulky Psychics such as Mew, Slowbro, Celebi, and Cressalia. It also holds great utility, being able to knock off items such as Choice Scarfes and Leftovers. More importantly, it doesn't need a boost to be worth using, it already scores an OHKO on Gengar and Latios without even needing to set up. All in all, Knock Off is a far more useful move on Mega-Gallade than Shadow Sneak and comes in handy way, way more often.

Small nitpick, but a common argument I see for SS is that "oh, I pair it with Sharp and Sharp already has KO, so I either already deal with those threats or knock off their item, making Gallade's KO almost useless against it". You should probably find a way to answer it.

 

[firehusky]

hehe bwoi :J

Don't use this:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Baton Pass / Toxic / Roar

Why it's bad:

I wouldn't exactly call Vapreon "bad" per se but Vap & Mola is a classic example of "don't use this, use that" hence the art for the thread lol. Vap saw a lot of usage earlier in XY thanks to our friend denisssssssssssssssss but since then has not seen much love, for a good reason. Vap serves as a wall, a Wishpasser to its teamates & a defensive pivot. It is able to do this through good hp stat, decent defenses, water being a solid defensive typing, and access to baton pass. Alolololol does the exact same thing, just better through a bigger HP stat, better ability in regenerator, and access to knock off. Vap and Mola share similar defensive capabilities as can be seen through the following.

calcs

40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 200 HP / 252 Def Vaporeon: 181-214 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 32 HP / 232 Def Alomomola: 156-185 (32.5 - 38.6%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 32 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 316-372 (65.9 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 56+ SpD Vaporeon: 247-292 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

As I said, Vap is not a bad pokemon, rather a pretty standard.bulky water who wishpasses and pivots but rather 100% outclassed by mola, I will elaborate as to why this is below.

Use this instead:

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 32 HP / 224 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic/Knock Off

Why it's good:

"Anything you can do I can do better." Completely sums up Mola in relation to Vap. As I said, the two pokemon share similar roles as bulky waters who can pass wishes and pivot. They check a lot of the same pokemon, but Mola does it better for a few reasons. The 1st being a larger HP stat - meaning Mola can pass bigger wishes than Vap can. This can be very important on all teams, especially with teams that have pokemon with lower hp stats. The difference between 130 base HP in Vap's case and 165 in Mola's case truly is noticable. With the given spreads, even though Mola has much less hp investment, Vap's hp stat hits 451 while mola's hits 479. The 2nd reason Mola completely outclasses Vap is Mola's better ability allows it to act as a good defensive pivot without sacrificing a moveslot, not to mention regenerator is overall much better for longevity than water absorb as both Mola and Vap take any water hit with ease. Regenerator, as most of us know, restores 1/3 of a pokemon's max hp upon switching out. Regenerator allows mola to come in on something like a lati's draco, then switch immediately to a teammate without losing too much HP overall, and still getting the spatk drop on the lati. Vapreon cannot do this, the best way for it to pivot is Baton pass, (or hard switch) meaning it can't run toxic and can't stall 1v1 nearly as well. Speaking of movepool, the third reason Mola is better than Vap is that Mola gets access to the ever present knock off, allowing it to cripple offensive threats such as greninja and lati twins, and since Mola doesnt need BP to pivot, it has a free slot open to choose from toxic, allowing Mola to stall, and knock off, allowing it to cripple threats as I just said. While it's true Vap can run toxic, it will be missing baton pass and means it acts as much less of an effective pivot. So overall, Alomomola completely outclasses Vapreon because 1) Much bigger hp stat = bigger wishes 2) Much much better ability, lets mola pivot safely and stay around longer 3) Access to knock off & can run also run toxic with little downside.

Actually, the bolded part is not completely true. Alomomola has bigger wishes, access to knock off, and regenerator, which allows it to heal itself without having to pass wishes to itself. But one thing that vaporeon can do better than alomomola is be a cleric. With access to heal bell, it can easily heal a teammate's status condition, and potentially pass a wish to it on the next turn. Roar is also another option on vaporeon that is pretty valuable. Alomomola is complete set up bait for mons with the move substitute, such as mega and non mega gyarados, mega latias etc. When these mons try to set up on vaporeon however, it can easily phaze them out with roar, getting rid of substitutes and stat boosts.
I'm not saying that vaporeon is better than alomomola, I'm just saying that the part with "anything you can do I can do better" is not exactly true, because vaporeon does have niches that alomomola doesn't have. However, I still agree that alomomola is in general much better, due to bigger wishes and regenerator.

 

[p2]

Don't use this:

Audino @ Audinite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Dazzling Gleam

Despite having very good 103/126/126 Defenses, Mega Audino isn't very good in OU since it's generally outclassed by Chansey. Mega Audino uses that valuable mega slot in your team, which could be used for something else, the only thing that really sets it apart from Chansey or Blissey is its part Fairy type, but considering opportunity cost, it doesn't justify using Mega Audino. It has a very lackluster ability in Healer, which is completely useless in singles and has no way to easily cure status like Chansey can. It also has a better support movepool with moves like Yawn, Encore, Healing Wish and even Knock Off, but this barely justifies using it over Chansey.

edit: It also has to rely on WishTect or Draining Kiss for recovery, the former needing 2 moveslots and the latter being weak as hell coming off of base 80 Spa with no boosts

Use this:

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

Chansey is the best special wall in the entire game, but does have an extremely low Defense stat, however her massive HP helps with that. Uninvested she reaches 642 HP, which means she can pass Wishes of up to over 341 HP, while Audino fully invested can pass around 205 HP per wish.
Chansey is able to cure herself from Status by simply switching out due to Natural Cure, and because of her pure normal typing, she can act as a counter to Greninja (by definition), while Audino loses to Gunk Shot because of the Fairy typing.
Chansey also has access to moves like Stealth Rock or Counter but these are usually quite situational.

This post is pretty self explanatory, but I've seen a surprising amount of Audinos in the lower ladder when it's more suitable for RU or below since it's generally outclassed by Chansey and Blissey

 

[Kurona]

Are we allowed to do two "don't use this" for the same Pokémon? Because I think Clefable is also very worth going over as outclassing Audino.

Don't use this:

Audino @ Audinite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Dazzling Gleam

Despite having very good 103/126/126 Defenses, Mega Audino isn't very good in OU since it's generally outclassed by Chansey. Mega Audino uses that valuable mega slot in your team, which could be used for something else, the only thing that really sets it apart from Chansey or Blissey is its part Fairy type, but considering opportunity cost, it doesn't justify using Mega Audino. It has a very lackluster ability in Healer, which is completely useless in singles and has no way to easily cure status like Chansey can. It also has a better support movepool with moves like Yawn, Encore, Healing Wish and even Knock Off, but this barely justifies using it over Chansey.

Use this:

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

Chansey is the best special wall in the entire game, but does have an extremely low Defense stat, however her massive HP helps with that. Uninvested she reaches 642 HP, which means she can pass Wishes of up to over 341 HP, while Audino fully invested can pass around 205 HP per wish.
Chansey is able to cure herself from Status by simply switching out due to Natural Cure, and because of her pure normal typing, she can act as a counter to Greninja (by definition), while Audino loses to Gunk Shot because of the Fairy typing.
Chansey has access to moves like Stealth Rock or Counter but these are usually quite situational.

This post is pretty self explanatory, but I've seen a surprising amount of Audinos in the lower ladder when it's more suitable for RU or below since it's generally outclassed by Chansey and Blissey

I'd also mention that Audino's normal type brings it's fairy type nothing but the loss of a fighting resist. And, uh, immunity to an attack two or three things use in OU...

 

[Lazyboy0337]

Are we allowed to do two "don't use this" for the same Pokémon? Because I think Clefable is also very worth going over as outclassing Audino.

I'd also mention that Audino's normal type brings it's fairy type nothing but the loss of a fighting resist. And, uh, immunity to an attack two or three things use in OU...

Should also mention that MAudino can do a CM set, and show how Clefable can do that better, since that is a niche use for MAudino that isn't outclassed by Chansey.

 

[Jojobobo]

Without going along with the established format as it's pointless in this case, I'd like to mention you should always use a min speed Ferrothorn (preferably 0 speed IVs and a negative nature even when you're not running Gyro Ball) to give Trick Room teams a harder time and because above all else it really doesn't need the speed. I run a Trick Room team, and I have a vastly more difficult time getting past Ferro who's min speed than one who isn't.