Resource Don't Use That; Use This (ORAS Version)

[DoABarrelRoll]

FOR STICKY WEB TEAMS

Don't use:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Taunt / Focus Blast

Instead use:

Thundurus-T @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature

- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Focus Blast

Today I saw a Sticky Web team that used NP Thundy-I. I think Thundurus-T does this job better, since it hits way harder with its 145 SpA compared to Thundurus-I's 125. The 144 Spe EVs allow it to outspeed Mega Lopunny at -1 and destroy it with +0 or +2 Focus Miss. Volt Absorb allows it to stop Volt Switch spam and lol at Mega Manectric.

Or you can use this (thanks boltsandbombers):

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 72 Atk / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild / Naive Nature

- Thunderbolt / Wild Charge
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power Ice

The EVs and moveset are extremely tweakable. Defiant allows it to switch into Defog teams and nuke with +2 Knock Off or Superpower, or Wild Charge if you have it. HP Ice is still needed to break through Lando-T, Dragonite and Gliscor.

 

[boltsandbombers]

FOR STICKY WEB TEAMS

Don't use:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Taunt / Focus Blast

Instead use:

Thundurus-T @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature

- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Focus Blast

Today I saw a Sticky Web team that used NP Thundy-I. I think Thundurus-T does this job better, since it hits way harder with its 145 SpA compared to Thundurus-I's 125. The 144 Spe EVs allow it to outspeed Mega Lopunny at -1 and destroy it with +0 or +2 Focus Miss. Volt Absorb allows it to stop Volt Switch spam and lol at Mega Manectric.

Somewhat disagreeing with this. Thundurus-I is not bad on a sticky web team, defiant is much better in this situation because you can take advantage of Defog. Instead of suggesting Thundurus-T, you might as well just suggest defiant 4 attacks mixed Thundurus-I.

 

[Toljik]

But of course, the main point here is Victini. Stick a scarf on Victini, and really, how can you justify using Darmanitan? Victini sports the far more powerful, even ridiculously powerful V-create which absolutely demolishes everything that doesn't resist it, and while you have to switch out after using it, can you honestly tell me you wouldn't switch out after Flare Blitzing something with Darm?

A small nitpick: Victini is less powerful than Darmanitan:

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dry Skin Parasect: 2308-2719 (712.3 - 839.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dry Skin Parasect: 2106-2480 (650 - 765.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Kurona]

A small nitpick: Victini is less powerful than Darmanitan:

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dry Skin Parasect: 2308-2719 (712.3 - 839.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dry Skin Parasect: 2106-2480 (650 - 765.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Showing super effective targets doesn't prove much at all because the super effective multipliers quickly exaggerate the actual damage values; especially when it's something ridiculous like 8X effective.
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 246-289 (72.1 - 84.7%)
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 270-318 (79.1 - 93.2%)

 

[Karxrida]

A small nitpick: Victini is less powerful than Darmanitan:

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dry Skin Parasect: 2308-2719 (712.3 - 839.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dry Skin Parasect: 2106-2480 (650 - 765.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Victini can easily just run Choice Band while Darmanitan cannot, plus it doesn't kill itself whenever it attacks and can take a hit.

 

[Toljik]

Showing super effective targets doesn't prove much at all because the super effective multipliers quickly exaggerate the actual damage values; especially when it's something ridiculous like 8X effective.
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 246-289 (72.1 - 84.7%)
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 270-318 (79.1 - 93.2%)

It doesn't make much of a difference when comparing the two. 650/712 is 0.913. 72.1/79.1 is 0.912.

I'm not arguing for Darmanitan's viability, I just wanted to correct a misconception I've seen a lot on the forums about Victini.

Timid_Metagross: Can you do one for Jolteon? It's even higher up on the 0 usage stats than Heliolisk.

 

[Kurona]

It doesn't make much of a difference when comparing the two. 650/712 is 0.913. 72.1/79.1 is 0.912.

I'm not arguing for Darmanitan's viability, I just wanted to correct a misconception I've seen a lot on the forums about Victini.

Timid_Metagross: Can you do one for Jolteon? It's even higher up on the 0 usage stats than Heliolisk.

Jolteon's already been done by Recreant; I'd look at the Archive before requesting.

 

[Kurona]

Don't use this:

Why it's bad:
One of my favourite Gen 5 'mon has been seeing quite a bit of use on the ladder lately -- #115 in usage -- and it's easy to see why. It seems to have this niche of being the one and only offensive Sticky Web user; with a nice speed tier of 108, and while 97 special attack isn't bad Compoundeyes STAB thunder seems to make up for it. However, that's where the pros end. Sticky Web on it's own is generally a sub-par hazard as it doesn't cause any chip damage to the opposing Pokémon; Stealth Rock is a solid hazard because it's guaranteed to have an effect on everything except those with Magic Guard. Sticky Web doesn't affect flying-types or levitators, which becomes a big problem when those are the most common defoggers in the tier (Lati@s, Mandibuzz, Skarmory, etc). There are also a lot of slow teams with Pokémon like Sableye and Slowbro who frankly don't care about getting their speed lowered, Trick Room teams and Gyro Ball users who love getting webbed, and finally Serperior and the oh so common Bisharp who will absolutely destroy you if they switch into a web. Sticky Web has gotten worse and worse as Gen 6 has moved along, and it on it's own is a completely unreliable and unsatisfactory hazard. This is why you'd want a secondary entry hazard alongside Web; and running two suicide leads on a team is generally very limiting and not a good idea. Galvantula on itself isn't great either; it's beaten by a lot of common SR leads such as Mamoswine, while entry hazard controller Mega Sableye just ruins it's day. The one thing it really has to it's name is having STAB on two types that beat common defoggers such as Latios and Skarmory, but that's not quite enough to save it from being unviable, especially with it's 97 base special attack is holding it back:
252 SpA Galvantula Bug Buzz vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 192-228 (60.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Galvantula Thunder vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 276-326 (65.2 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Galvantula Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 222-264 (74.2 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Use this instead:

Why it's better:
Yes, Shuckle. While arguably it's gotten worse with the rise of Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie, it still holds the niche in being the only Pokémon - aside from Smeargle - to get both Sticky Web and Stealth Rock, making it the only viable user of Sticky Web. It's stupidly high 230 defences are of course the reason you should use it over Smeargle, and while it has the offensive presence of a feather, it has a better use in Encore and Infestation, which allow it to do one of two things to an incoming defogger or rapid spinner -- it can trap them with infestation so you can switch out to a counter, or it can encore them so you can either safely set up your second hazard (usually set up rocks before web), or switch out to a set-up Pokémon to take complete advantage of them.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

FOR GOD'S SAKE, DO NOT FUCKING USE:

Electivire @ Life Orb
Trait: Motor Drive
EVs: 56 Atk / 200 SpA / 252 Spe or 140 Atk / 116 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature

- Thunderbolt / Wild Charge
- Flamethrower
- Cross Chop
- Ice Punch

Instead use this:

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Mild Nature

- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

If you use SmashPass and want to troll the low- and mid-ladder, have fun using Electivire. But on a serious team, do not use it, like, ever. It has excellent coverage and good attacking power at first glance, until you realize that its poor 95 speed and atrocious defense stats completely prevent it from doing its job. It's also completely outclassed by Kyurem-B as a mixed attacker and by many Electric-types as a Thunderbolt/Wild Charge spammer, like Mega Manectric, Raikou, Thundurus (-T), Zapdos, you name it. On the unweighted stats, 1.21% of all teams still use Electivire. This isn't gen 4, folks.

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

FOR STICKY WEB TEAMS

Don't use:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Taunt / Focus Blast

Instead use:

Thundurus-T @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature

- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Focus Blast

Today I saw a Sticky Web team that used NP Thundy-I. I think Thundurus-T does this job better, since it hits way harder with its 145 SpA compared to Thundurus-I's 125. The 144 Spe EVs allow it to outspeed Mega Lopunny at -1 and destroy it with +0 or +2 Focus Miss. Volt Absorb allows it to stop Volt Switch spam and lol at Mega Manectric.

Or you can use this (thanks boltsandbombers):

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 72 Atk / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild / Naive Nature

- Thunderbolt / Wild Charge
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power Ice

The EVs and moveset are extremely tweakable. Defiant allows it to switch into Defog teams and nuke with +2 Knock Off or Superpower, or Wild Charge if you have it. HP Ice is still needed to break through Lando-T, Dragonite and Gliscor.

I disagree completely. Prankster Thundurus-I is too good to not e viable in any type of team. It may not exactly fit on Sticky Web but having any standard prankster Thundurus-I is good and viable. Actually, I thinkt hat outside Stall, Trick Room (and there's other) oprankster Thundurus-I is usable on the rest of styles of the metagame, including Sticky Web.

This thread is to compare what's unviable to something viable. Prankster Thundurus-I has enough merits to be used on Sticky Web teams.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

I disagree completely. Prankster Thundurus-I is too good to not e viable in any type of team. It may not exactly fit on Sticky Web but having any standard prankster Thundurus-I is good and viable. Actually, I thinkt hat outside Stall, Trick Room (and there's other) oprankster Thundurus-I is usable on the rest of styles of the metagame, including Sticky Web.

This thread is to compare what's unviable to something viable. Prankster Thundurus-I has enough merits to be used on Sticky Web teams.

I was referring to NP Thundy-I for fuck's sake

 

[Aragorn the King]

*sigh* this one was coming sooner or later
Don't use this:

Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Zen Headbutt
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch

Why it's bad:
I wouldn't classify Mega Medicham as a bad pokemon in the oras ou metagame, it simply is simply can't compete with mega gallade when it comes to speed. Medicham may have a better attack stat, but Medicham doesn't get access to swords dance. Medicham just isn't the pokemon that it used to be in xy, and now there is basically no reason to use it over mega gallade. It is also walled by bulky ghosts, like mega sableye and cofagrigus.
Use this:

Gallade-Mega (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Why it's good:
Gallade is such an amazing pokemon, and even with an essentially useless ability, it still is one of the best megas and maybe even one of the best pokemon in the metagame at the moment. With access to knock off, it isn't walled by ghosts and with swords dance it can boost it's attack to exceed medicham's attack. With a base 110 speed, it can speed creep a lot of pokes in the ou meta. In the end, there is no reason to use medicham over gallade whatsoever.

Sorry for taking so long to reply. The reason I haven't accepted this (yet) is for what I've bolded. Medicham is mostly outclassed by Gallade, yes. However, its C ranking in the viability thread should reflect that it is indeed viable. There are scenarios in which medicham > gallade, and those should be delineated in your post.

Basically say that unless you really know what you're doing, stick with Gallade. But, if you specifically want any of medicham's few assets (more initial power, better vs. powerful slow mons, priority to rk stuff, beating unaware pokemon, baton pass), it's still an acceptable choice.

Anyway I've updated the OP up to Electivire v. Kyurem-B. Nice work guys :)

 

[michaeloche]

Don't use this:

Ferrothorn @ whatever
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: whatever
whatever Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Gyro Ball
- whatever
- whatever

Why it's bad: Thunder Wave is a good move on Ferrothorn. So is Gyro Ball. But when you combine them, you get a less effective Ferrothorn. Why? Because of how these moves work. Gyro Ball does more damage to faster targets, while paralysis cuts the opponent's speed to a quarter of what it was before. This means that Gyro Ball will be doing substantially less damage. For instance, if you hit a Latios that isn't paralyzed, Gyro Ball will have 150 BP. Paralyze Latios, though, and you have 54 BP. Yeah, that ain't doing much. This is worse if Gyro Ball is your only attack.

Instead, use this:

Ferrothorn @ whatever
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: whatever
whatever Nature
- Thunder Wave/Gyro Ball
- whatever
- whatever
- whatever

Why it's better: There's no need to use both Thunder Wave and Gyro Ball on the same Ferrothorn, so pick whichever suits your team better. And if you do choose T-wave, run Power Whip (or even Knock Off).

 

[Rich Homie Supreme]

Don't use this:
Mega Pidgeot

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power Grass
- Roost
Why it's bad:
It is a mega pokemon which means it has the opportunity cost of making you not able to use mega metagross or mega lopunny etc
It also lacks a decent amount of coverage to use with its special attack stat and a lack of options in general.
Its not that it isn't viable at all but that what you are giving up to use it is just too steep a cost to pay.

Instead use this:
Tornadus Therian Forme

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 76 Atk / 216 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Taunt

Or this!:
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Air Slash
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Heat Wave

or shit even this:
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
EVs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off
- U-turn
this pokemon has the ability to use life orb, assault vest, has the same amount of speed and better bulk in general. It might now have no guard but regenerator is REALLY good since it gives it a free heal every time it switches out! It is a better choice imo and preserves your mega slot :]

 

[Karxrida]

Don't use this:
Mega Pidgeot

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power Grass
- Roost
Why it's bad:
It is a mega pokemon which means it has the opportunity cost of making you not able to use mega metagross or mega lopunny etc
It also lacks a decent amount of coverage to use with its special attack stat and a lack of options in general.
Its not that it isn't viable at all but that what you are giving up to use it is just too steep a cost to pay.

Instead use this:
Tornadus Therian Forme

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 76 Atk / 216 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Taunt

Or this!:
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Air Slash
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Heat Wave

or shit even this:
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
EVs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off
- U-turn
this pokemon has the ability to use life orb, assault vest, has the same amount of speed and better bulk in general. It might now have no guard but regenerator is REALLY good since it gives it a free heal every time it switches out! It is a better choice imo and preserves your mega slot :]

Pidgeot's legit for the sole fact it wouldn't miss EVER.

 

[Fafnir]

Yeah, Pidgeot's actually got a lot going for it. Relying on two 70% accuracy moves is just asking to get messed up. Reliability means a lot in this game, and Pidgeot's got that with extra power to spare.

 

[Teeny Victory]

Don't use this:
Mega Pidgeot

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power Grass
- Roost
Why it's bad:
It is a mega pokemon which means it has the opportunity cost of making you not able to use mega metagross or mega lopunny etc
It also lacks a decent amount of coverage to use with its special attack stat and a lack of options in general.
Its not that it isn't viable at all but that what you are giving up to use it is just too steep a cost to pay.

Instead use this:
Tornadus Therian Forme

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 76 Atk / 216 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Taunt

Or this!:
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Air Slash
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Heat Wave

or shit even this:
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
EVs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off
- U-turn
this pokemon has the ability to use life orb, assault vest, has the same amount of speed and better bulk in general. It might now have no guard but regenerator is REALLY good since it gives it a free heal every time it switches out! It is a better choice imo and preserves your mega slot :]

Believe me, torn does not outclass m-pidgeot, they in fact fill surprisingly different niches. Pidg has the obvious advantage of never missing, which is extremely beneficial, as we all know how much of a bitch hurricane is. Pidg also synergises very well with dug trio, who removes heatran rock types (who are pidgs best counterslas these pokemon are to afraid to switch into torn because of focus blast/supwrpower. While this might not necessarily sound like a bad thing, this allows Pidg to be paired with dangerous set up sweepers like serperior and volcarona, who wreck havoc after Tran is gone. Pidg also has access to roost and a boosting move in work up, which both allow Pidg to be a much more consistent sweeper than tor thanks to no guard shenanigans. Pidg also has stab on the ALMIGHTY HYPER beat, which allows it to destroy electric types and nab crucial late game kos (no seriously, hyper beam is the best option in the last move slot). I'm not saying that torn has nothing it can do better, as I am an avid user of torn and know it's strengths, torn does not outclass Pidg to the extent that u shouldn't be using it, such as alomoloma to vaporeon, aspire has actual niches and is ranked in the viability rankings for a reason. (also it has that sick af head of hair, which makes torn cri eritime) oh and it's bird jesus so yeah.

 

[Rich Homie Supreme]

Even though pidg doesn't miss, the fact they it takes up a mega suit slot when you could be using something better remains. The fully special torn t set could prolly be better but at least with him you have the ability to run mega metagross, lopunny, slowbro etc.

Burd jesus is still super majestic tho

It may not outclass it to the point that it shouldn't be used period but again, there are better options for your mega slot(isn't that the reason nobody uses mega lati@s?.)

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Even though pidg doesn't miss, the fact they it takes up a mega suit slot when you could be using something better remains. The fully special torn t set could prolly be better but at least with him you have the ability to run mega metagross, lopunny, slowbro etc.

Burd jesus is still super majestic tho

It may not outclass it to the point that it shouldn't be used period but again, there are better options for your mega slot(isn't that the reason nobody uses mega lati@s?.)

While there is a certain degree of truth in what you say, both the mega Latis and Mega Pidgeot are still considered viable. Yes Mega Pidgeot takes up your Mega slot, but if it were truly and utterly outclassed it wouldn't be sitting in C+, it'd be sitting in D. Fact is, at the end of the day it is still considered a viable mon and something reasonable to build around, and while it sits in the viability rankings it's not really fair to say, "Oh, it's not an S-Class Mega, so you should never use it". That's be the same as saying "Don't use Mega Sceptile because Serperior can run almost the same set and doesn't eat a Mega Slot".

 

[Kurona]

Really, Tornadus-T and Mega Pidgeot's similarities end at Speed, Flying STAB and sort of movepool. Mega Pidgeot is generally used to fire off extremely powerful Hurricanes while Tornadus-T is generally used more as a defensive pivot.

 

[Rich Homie Supreme]

"Oh, it's not an S-Class Mega, so you should never use it". That's be the same as saying "Don't use Mega Sceptile because Serperior can run almost the same set and doesn't eat a Mega Slot".

I never said or implied anything like that.
I see that torn-t isn't exactly the best mon to use in mpidgeot's place tho.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

I never said or implied anything like that.
I see that torn-t isn't exactly the best mon to use in mpidgeot's place tho.

Sorry, my intent wasn't to put words in your mouth. The point I wanted to stress was that while some megas aren't the best Megas to build around, I think that so long as a Mega is considered viable, we shouldn't say not to use it just because it uses up the Mega slot. Heck, even Mega Medicham is still considered to have a niche despite it being almost completely outclassed by Mega Gallade.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

I honestly don't know what you are complaining about. Obviously there are times where certain mons, although objectively weaker, have some sort of advantage over the stronger ones in the right situation. That's precisely why no one has done a write up on Mega Gallade versus Infernape: sure they're both Fighting-type wallbreakers, but they hit completely different targets, thus it makes no sense to compare.

However, the goal of this thread isn't to write up about how an A-ranked mon outclasses some C-ranked mon. Rather, there are two goals. One is to point out bad moves on certain mons, and the other is to take things that see high-ladder usage despite the fact that they have little to no viable and point out what will likely do a better job. The write-ups that have been accepted were accepted precisely because they point out mons that are so badly outclassed that they are almost never worth using. Take your Jolteon example: sure, Jolteon is faster, but that's all it has going for it: it's less bulky than Raikou, doesn't hit as hard as Raikou, and has a worse movepool than Raikou, thus there is almost no reason to use Jolteon over Raikou.

It is true, there are very few, if any mons that 100% outclass another one. However, if mon X is 99% outclassed by another mon, that's usually more than enough to merit not using mon X.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

I agree that raikou in most situations can be better than jolteon. But the high speed of Jolteon does compensate.

Only the high speed can compensate for even having a poorer moveset.

http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/stat/speed.shtml

http://sweepercalc.com/stats/

Jolteon although you say it is unfeasible it affects the metagame Over Used. How? With the high speed he slaughters Pokémon Raikou can not beat.

The way you show up it seems that the unfeasible Pokémon. Is in the Black List, and many argue about it. But always comes a moderator and delete comments and blocks you from speaking again.

I do not speak anything else that I know that soon comes a boring guy with no arguments give me ban.

It depends on the team, depends on everything.

Pokemon that Jolteon outspeeds that Raikou doesn't that're OU relevant:
Talonflame, Weavile, Pidgeot, Tornadus, Salemance, Hawlucha, Whimsicott, Starmie, Houndoom, Azelf

Things that are going stay in on a reasonably healthy Raikou:
Whimsicott, Houndoom, maybe Azelf, Tornadus using U-Turn

You say that Jolteon beats way more threats than Raikou, but in reality that's just not the case. In any case, I really don't want to be clog up the thread with this discussion because it's going around in circles, and my profile page has nothing going on if you want to take it there. If Jolteon works better than Raikou for you, then by all means use it. These are suggestions, not commands that have to be followed, and if you're winning with something that's considered outclassed then keep using it. Also, please keep any grudges you're carrying out of the threads because threads aren't the place for them.

 

[AM]

Ok so you guys had your discussion and if your discussion isn't complete take it else where. I'm not gonna delete any comments cause the discussion was for the most part civil but from here on out if the subject continues I'll be removing them. Thanks ahead of time.