DP Research Thread #1 ("Old")

[ΩDonut]

Cool, but if it's actually the BP, does it also affect special attacks or not?

Correction: I didn't mean to put down "Attack", I meant to put down "the attacking stat".

 

[Peterko]

(((((2 + (Level × 2 ÷ 5)) × BasePower × [Sp]Atk) ÷ [Sp]Def) ÷ 50) + 2) × CH × (rand(85,100) / 100) × STAB × Type1Effectiveness × Type2Effectiveness

this is the D/P formula resarched by X-Act you can work with, now there are many positions for boosts/modifiers (which I´m testing)

M0 -> affecting level, I think I haven´t seen such a modifier yet
M1 -> affecting move base power
M2 -> affecting the attacking stat
M3 -> affecting the defense/sp.defense stat
M4 -> after /50) right before +2
M5 -> right after +2), before the random modifier
M6 -> after random modifier, before STAB
M7 -> after random midifier, after STAB, before effectiveness
M8 -> after effectiveness (affecting the whole damage)

so...I have to eliminate all of these (except one) when I´m testing, it is really difficult as you have to find appropriate pkmn to get different damages for each position

I´m not gonna post the positions of the various items/abilities/move modifiers that I´ve tested, they will be posted after everything´s finished

 

[psyduckoid]

would focus band work if i used wood hammer as a dying move

 

[X-Act]

Another damage-related discovery: Rivalry does not boost the attack by 50% if against a same-gender Pokemon, but only by 25%.

well, a discovery again...

luxray, 162 attack, lv. 60
vs
tyranitar, 160defense

spark damage: 55, 57, 130 (CH), 111 (CH), 66

unboosted calc. damage
26 x 65 x 162 / 160 / 50 ) + 2... = 45-54

before I got 66 damage, the CHs helped a lot

130/1.5 = 87
111/1.5 = 74
almost min and max damage range, but 87 is impossible as a CH, so if 74 (37) is min, then 88 (44) is max

1.2 boost calc. dmg = 52-63
1.3 boost calc. dmg = 58-69
1.25 boost calc. dmg = 55-66

So the boost is by 25%.

 

[Misty]

would focus band work if i used wood hammer as a dying move

No, Focus Band only works against the opponent's damaging move, or Spikes/Stealth Rock.

 

[Mekkah]

Focus Band works against Spikes/Stealth Rock? Either that's something I didn't know, or something that isn't true.

No freeze from Secret Power is a sorta bummer, then again it would have been kinda broken anyway, even with Freeze Clause. Thanks for confirming anyway.

 

[Boa1891]

Secret Power in Battle Revolution:

Gateway - Lowers Attack
Main Street - Paralyze
Waterfall - Sleep
Neon - Paralyze
Crystal - Flinch
Sunny Park - Sleep
Magma - Flinch
Sunset - Lowers Accuracy
Courtyard - Paralyze
Stargazer - Flinch

No freeze, but there is a Sleep.

Sexy!

 

[Misty]

Oh shit, I was thinking of Focus Sash, because I remembered something about Shedinja being able to survive Stealth Rock by chewing up its Focus Sash.

 

[ΩDonut]

Since we know very little about how Forewarn looks exactly, I took a newly-hatched Forewarn Drowzee, gave it a Smoke Ball, and took it on a little trip to see the fauna (and\or flora) of Sinnoh.

Variable-power moves, especially Hidden Power and Natural Gift, have a higher priority than all other moves.

To test this, I encountered two Shellos with Drowzee (Hidden Power was alerted), then captured them and figured out their IVs. The first Shellos was actually a very nice Shellos with triple 26's and a 30 for Speed. It had HP Steel 70. The second one, by contrast, was a pretty lousy Shellos (triple zeros!) and had HP Poison 30 - but Forewarn still alerted me to Hidden Power despite Shellos having the more powerful Water Pulse.

As for Natural Gift, the Glooms on Route 229 have both Giga Drain and Natural Gift, but each time Forewarn alerted me to Natural Gift.

Gyro Ball seems to have a higher priority than regular moves, too. Strangely, though, Wring Out\Crush Grip seems to have the same priority as regular moves, because when encountering L50+ Weepinbells Forewarn alerted me to both Wring Out and Slam.

Things to look into:

After Team Rocket Elite mentioned that Forewarn alerted him to Counter, I began to wonder if Forewarn also alerted to other "surprise" moves like Destiny Bond. While it doesn't seem to be the case (a L55 Haunter's Dream Eater came up instead), I wonder if there is some kind of priority tier among non-attack moves, or if they're completely random.

So in summary, Counter\Mirror Coat\Bide, Hidden Power\Natural Gift, and Gyro Ball all seem to have a higher priority than regular moves. Now to figure out which ones have higher priority over each other. For that, I'll need someone to test with since there aren't any wild Pokemon that carry all these moves at once.

 

[Surgo]

Was the critical percentage of high-crit moves ever tested for DP? It might be a good idea to check that out.

 

[Boa1891]

Oh shit, I was thinking of Focus Sash, because I remembered something about Shedinja being able to survive Stealth Rock by chewing up its Focus Sash.

Wouldn't a Band be able to protect against anything a Sash can? It'd take testing to be sure, but it's a logical assumption. Neither band nor sash protect against recoil, both protect against incoming attacks. I don't know of any situations where they're different, so I can only assume if the Sash stops Sheddy from dying on the switch, the band *can* stop something else from dying on the switch, with its regular 10% chance.

 

[Team Rocket Elite]

I was thinking of Focus Sash, because I remembered something about Shedinja being able to survive Stealth Rock by chewing up its Focus Sash.

Shedinja still dies to Spikes and Stealth Rock even with a Focus Sash.

Regarding Forewarn: Could it be assuming max power for variable power moves. 70 for HP, 80 for Natural Gift(assuming Berries 61-64 are 80 power as well), 150 for Gyro Ball. I'm not sure why this doesn't apply to Wring Out, though.

 

[Matsuki222p]

Does yanma's ability*compoundeyes* cause a pokemon caught in the wild to have the same nature as the yanma that you initially sent out when you encountered the pokemon.

If so this would make finding dittos with the right nature and good i.v.s MUCH easier.

 

[ΩDonut]

Does yanma's ability*compoundeyes* cause a pokemon caught in the wild to have the same nature as the yanma that you initially sent out when you encountered the pokemon.

If so this would make finding dittos with the right nature and good i.v.s MUCH easier.

That's Synchronize, not Compoundeyes.

(Also, this was more worthy of the "ask a simple question" thread than the research thread.)

 

[ekans dilos]

Another damage-related discovery: Rivalry does not boost the attack by 50% if against a same-gender Pokemon, but only by 25%.


So the boost is by 25%.

Ah, that's kinda disappointing... but, again, is it Attack, either attacking stat or the BP of moves that is boosted by 25%?

 

[Peterko]

@ekans dilos: move power, but don´t ask these things as all damage formula modifiers will be posted in one topic when we know them all...

Was the critical percentage of high-crit moves ever tested for DP? It might be a good idea to check that out.

well not exactly high CH moves, but I´ve tested razor claw while watching wimbledon yesterday

I used a lv.100 ursaring with fire punch, facade, return and quake with max PP (104) against wild route 201pkmn

-> out of the first 104, I got 8 CHs
-> out of the second 104, I got 14 CHs

so, 22/208 = 10.58%...I should´ve got 26/208 for it to be 12.5%, the first 104 one was a bit off, the second 104 was pretty accurate...

I plan to do more CH testing, but the damage formula has a higher priority now...

 

[Boa1891]

Natural Gift(assuming Berries 61-64 are 80 power as well)

Speaking of...
*testage*

Berry 61- Micle Berry
Assumed Type/Power: Rock/80
Attacker: Porygon-Z, level 100, 196 Atk
Defender: Salamence, 195 Def, weak to rock
Assumed damage:
(((((2+(100*2/5))*80*196)/195)/50)+2)*1*(r/100)*1*1*2 = 118-138
Salamence used Dragon pulse on foe Doomedthingoloololol. It dies dead.
Porygon-Z used Natural Gift on Salamence
It's super effective!
Foe Stunky used fury swipes on Porygon-Z
Salamence is at 206/330 HP (124 damage)
wut hapen?
looks like 80 BP rock to me.

Next!
Same Berry, different target.
126 Defense Ninjask, 4x weak to Rock
(((((2+(100*2/5))*80*196)/126)/50)+2)*1*(r/100)*1*2*2 = 362-426 (Guaranteed OHKO if 4x weak, Guaranteed not OHKO if 2x weak)
Ninjask does something irrelevant.
Porygon-Z uses Natural Gift.
It's super effective! (OHKO)

Well, that was nice and conclusive, eh?

Berry 64 - Custap Berry
Assumed Type/BP: Dark/80
Attacker: lv 100 196 attack
Defender: 113 def, pure Fighting type (resist dark)
(((((2+(100*2/5))*80*196)/113)/50)+2)*1*(100/100)*1*.5= 50-59
Porygon-Z used Natural Gift!
It's not very effective on Machamp.
Machamp uses Earthquake and kills both opponents with ease
Machamp has 140/197 HP (57 Damage)

Looks like the first and last are as we have been assuming, so we can only assume the two in the middle match up as well.

We're missing a steel-type 80BP berry, but the question is: Should anyone give a shit?

 

[c l e a r]

Magic Guard question:

what does it exactly do? I understand it prevents side-effect damage, but what else? Does it block anything that does not do damage?

 

[Nicar]

Two questions about accuracy:

1) Are all moves listed as 100% accuracy still actually 99.7%? The only time I can remember that I've ever seen a 100% move miss without any accuracy/evade modifiers was way back in Pokémon Stadium, where my little Pikachu screwed up when using Thunderbolt.

2) When I played Pokémon Crystal and battled the 5th Gymleader, Chuck, his Poliwrath successfully used Mind Reader and then Hypnosis on the turn right after that. The thing is, the Hypnosis missed. I hadn't switched my Pokémon and no items or moves that could possibly have affected the move had been used? How could that happen, and could something like that still happen?

 

[ΩDonut]

Two questions about accuracy:

1) Are all moves listed as 100% accuracy still actually 99.7%? The only time I can remember that I've ever seen a 100% move miss without any accuracy/evade modifiers was way back in Pokémon Stadium, where my little Pikachu screwed up when using Thunderbolt.

That has been fixed since GSC. And it was 99.6%.

2) When I played Pokémon Crystal and battled the 5th Gymleader, Chuck, his Poliwrath successfully used Mind Reader and then Hypnosis on the turn right after that. The thing is, the Hypnosis missed. I hadn't switched my Pokémon and no items or moves that could possibly have affected the move had been used? How could that happen, and could something like that still happen?

We can't tell you without knowing any of the other extenuating circumstances. As far as we can tell you, the answer is no.

 

[c l e a r]

another question, Trick Room, could I combo it with Iron Orb or Lagging Tail?

 

[ANinyMouse]

Trick Room merely changes the attack order in a turn when the opponents use the same move priority, it does not alter the speed stats in any way.

 

[Nicar]

Thanks for the answers. I can't remember any other circumstances that could possibly have affected it, I just remember that it was really weird. It was probably just some random glitch or something.

 

[Boa1891]

another question, Trick Room, could I combo it with Iron Orb or Lagging Tail?

Lagging Tail, IIRC, actually just adds -1 priority to anything you do; Making regular attacks -1 priority, +1 priority regular, etc.
Iron Orb on the other hand, ACTUALLY halves your speed stat instead of adding a priority. Trick Room WOULD work with the post-Iron Orb Speed, unlike Lagging Tail.
Better suited for Ask a Simple question...

 

[c l e a r]

ok, what about magic guard?