DP Tier Discussion Thread - BL and UU

[Gmax]

This was a discussion in the NFE topic which wasn't really relevant, so I wanted to continue it here.

You're wrong about the crit chance, it's actually 12%. Also, "fucking" 25BP versus 20% accuracy doesn't make rock slide useless. In fact, there are some pokemon who would prefer 100% accuracy (in fact, this is the whole thunderbolt versus thunder argument, and honestly, that is a 30% difference and they chose accuracy over power. Also a 25 BP difference there. 20% accuracy is better, but you realize that rock slide has a 30% chance to crit, so some pokemon like the accuracy over power)


What are you talking about? You began comparing them, and what are you even trying to say? You're comparing two pokemon in two different roles. Your first witty comeback stated that noctowl had 50 base attack. Well he doesn't use that stat, and you were comparing two pokemon from two different roles. If you actually knew anything, you'd know that noctowl can take UU boltbeam like a champ and roost it all off. Also, throwing a special wall against a special wall makes no sense. If noctowl knew whirlwind (which it probably would) I don't see how hypno can beat noctowl, considering as it also has insomnia. Not to mention you're making an argument similar to "heracross sucks because weavile can kill it with aerial ace!!!!" Wow, one pokemon might be able to beat it!!! Shut up.

I mean seriously. You haven't done the calc's for boltbeam (not to mention gliscor is also weak to boltbeam) and for rock "noctowl clearly won't be staying in" and your argument makes no sense. So get over it.

Sorry about the crit rate, my bad. Gliscor is immune to TBolt...

Noctowl can NEVER pose a threat to your opponent in the way Gligar can. It cannot keep taking stuff like Quake+Edge early to mid game and clean up in the end with SD. And really, it was stupid of me to look at its Attack stat, but you really shouldn't compare those 2 Pokemon.

I never said Hypno would fucking beat Noctowl in a battle(now theres a stallfest!), I said it would beat the shit out of it at special walling, taking hits much better, providing wish support, not being excessively weak on the physical side and having an overall better typing.

You were the one who gave Noctowl as an example of one of the many similarly bulky Pokemon, not me....


And Wobby really isn't UU at any rate, once it comes in on something that isn't Ghost or Fighting, that thing is going down.

And Steelix is really a terrific physical wall, despite being EQ weak, 200 base Def is great. Its low special defense and average attack sort of let it down though. But with its awful speed, Gyro Ball becomes really powerful, but since nothing in UU is really THAT fast, its BP won't usually exceed 70-80.

 

[Forsety]

If you recall I did actually suggest Steelix for testing a while back, but the idea was opposed (or at least was given no support), so it looks like BL will remain the largest tier ...

Well I'll throw in my support for Steelix too on top of what I think is a 'for testing' from gmax just so theres another BL brought down which seems to be all anyone is aiming for right now. I mean one thing which strikes me as rather amusing is Steelix is even slower than Probopass which basically screams of SWITH ON SR!!! TRAPPED!!! MAGNET RISE!!! EARTH POWER!!!

But really when you're trying to demote Pokemon just for the sake of "BL TIER IS HUEG111" then you're not doing it for the right reasons at all and for the sake of kicking a dead horse. Do remember BL tier = Standard environment. Its not its own game as most people believe.

Anyway see below for the results of some mulling over I've been doing.

Keep in mind the psychological effect of threatening instant kills usually makes people try to exploit its weakness

I should point out why this is the most overrated part of the crit argument. The first being its high crit moves even with Scope Lens is only 25% crit tops.

Anything else only has 12% at best now when you consider for coverage you'll have to run one of those weaker no crit bonus moves. At the same time you could run Cross Poison for power and crit but you'd benefit more from running Brick Break + elemental fang.

What it means is you forfeit any other items like Black Sludge, Leftovers, pinch berries for what is only 1 level of crit which doesn't ammount to much.

Also I actually had in mind Steelix and Drapion being considered at the same time since although Drapion can lay into Steelix with Brick Break. Steelix at the same time threatens with a more damaging STAB EQ.

Offensive Drapion's Brick Break does pretty neglectable damage even after Swords Dance and is lucky if it even gets 40% on most defensive spreads. While a completely no attack invested Steelix is looking at a 2HKO on even a bulky Drapion, or it could just Roar.

Steelix could possibly prove a certain air of relief with other high powered sweepers like Pinsir running around while still being vulnerable to the many water users out there and even Glaceon could punch a hole through it.

 

[ODDish]

But really when you're trying to demote Pokemon just for the sake of "BL TIER IS HUEG111" then you're not doing it for the right reasons at all and for the sake of kicking a dead horse.

Actually the majority of the suggestions I have made have been on the basis that I almost never see these supposedly BL pokemon used in standard play, and was therefore hoping they might see some use in UU.

Besides the Leafeon that I run on my eeveelutions team Ive only ever come across one other person who has used it, and I've yet to see Lickilicky used in a standard battle, same with Zangoose. Hariyama and Exeggutor I've ony seen on the odd occaisions. Of course my experience is limited to Shoddy (and is therefore no exhaustive) but that is what I was basing my suggestions on, and not just suggesting them forthe sake of it.

 

[Lee]

Actually the majority of the suggestions I have made have been on the basis that I almost never see these supposedly BL pokemon used in standard play, and was therefore hoping they might see some use in UU.

You're missing the purpose of the BL tier system, my friend. A pokemon cannot fall from BL to UU based on useage. Even if nobody used Leafeon from now until the end of time, he would not go down to UU. If a Pokemon is in BL, it is because he is simply too powerful for UU.

Pokemon can, in theory, drop for OU to BL based on useage though. That may be what you're thinking of.

 

[ODDish]

But have we determined that all the pokemon in BL are too powerful for UU through testing?

 

[Brazeku]

I should point out why this is the most overrated part of the crit argument. The first being its high crit moves even with Scope Lens is only 25% crit tops.

OHKO moves are 30% hit.

Anything else only has 12% at best now when you consider for coverage you'll have to run one of those weaker no crit bonus moves. At the same time you could run Cross Poison for power and crit but you'd benefit more from running Brick Break + elemental fang.

Dark and poison gets dual stab and covers every non-steel type save skuntank (not really an issue), toxicroak (questionable), and t-tar (switch out) neutrally at least, and that's all you need. The psychic steels all take neutral damage from night slash as well. Personally, I don't run another attacking move - I run knock off and then switch out if I have to.

What it means is you forfeit any other items like Black Sludge, Leftovers, pinch berries for what is only 1 level of crit which doesn't ammount to much.

It amounts to quite a lot, in my experience.

Also I actually had in mind Steelix and Drapion being considered at the same time since although Drapion can lay into Steelix with Brick Break. Steelix at the same time threatens with a more damaging STAB EQ.

Offensive Drapion's Brick Break does pretty neglectable damage even after Swords Dance and is lucky if it even gets 40% on most defensive spreads. While a completely no attack invested Steelix is looking at a 2HKO on even a bulky Drapion, or it could just Roar.

Drapion does not handle steel types well, and shouldn't even try to cover that weakness IMO.

 

[Deck Knight]

Well I'll throw in my support for Steelix too on top of what I think is a 'for testing' from gmax just so theres another BL brought down which seems to be all anyone is aiming for right now. I mean one thing which strikes me as rather amusing is Steelix is even slower than Probopass which basically screams of SWITH ON SR!!! TRAPPED!!! MAGNET RISE!!! EARTH POWER!!!

But really when you're trying to demote Pokemon just for the sake of "BL TIER IS HUEG111" then you're not doing it for the right reasons at all and for the sake of kicking a dead horse. Do remember BL tier = Standard environment. Its not its own game as most people believe.

Anyway see below for the results of some mulling over I've been doing.

I should point out why this is the most overrated part of the crit argument. The first being its high crit moves even with Scope Lens is only 25% crit tops.

Anything else only has 12% at best now when you consider for coverage you'll have to run one of those weaker no crit bonus moves. At the same time you could run Cross Poison for power and crit but you'd benefit more from running Brick Break + elemental fang.

What it means is you forfeit any other items like Black Sludge, Leftovers, pinch berries for what is only 1 level of crit which doesn't ammount to much.

Also I actually had in mind Steelix and Drapion being considered at the same time since although Drapion can lay into Steelix with Brick Break. Steelix at the same time threatens with a more damaging STAB EQ.

Offensive Drapion's Brick Break does pretty neglectable damage even after Swords Dance and is lucky if it even gets 40% on most defensive spreads. While a completely no attack invested Steelix is looking at a 2HKO on even a bulky Drapion, or it could just Roar.

Steelix could possibly prove a certain air of relief with other high powered sweepers like Pinsir running around while still being vulnerable to the many water users out there and even Glaceon could punch a hole through it.

More Like "SWITCH ON SR!" "MAGNET RISE!" STEELIX USED ROAR! Other Pokemon was dragged out!"

And Drapion is LOL against Steelix. Steelix eats Cross Chops and Earthquakes from Electivire and Metagross for breakfast. The only thing Drapion should do if it sees Steelix is run far, far away.

The only thing with Steelix is that it completely outclasses Aggron and Bastiodon in most scenarios. The only things that merit Aggron over Steelix is better attack, Subpunching, STAB Stone Edge, Endeavor, and Thunder Wave. Bastiodon has ummm Special Defense, and ... Metal Burst, and is still Aggron's ugly retarded cousin. Probopass lacks a useful STAB move that it can use, and it completely outclasses Bastiodon as well. Let Probopass in UU and Bastiodon gets shot straight down to NU, where I of course would welcome it.

With no 4x Weaknesses, a second immunity, STAB EQ, and better defenses across the board compared to Aggron (75/200/65 vs. 70/180/60), Steelix easily supplants Aggron if allowed in UU, in the same way Probopass renders Bastiodon irrelevant if allowed in.

Of course, being physical walls with limited attack power they don't really unbalance UU, but they do basically render their current counterparts useless.

 

[ODDish]

The only thing with Steelix is that it completely outclasses Aggron and Bastiodon in most scenarios.

Most things outclass Bastiodon irregardless of actual typing ...

The only things that merit Aggron over Steelix is better attack, Subpunching, STAB Stone Edge, Endeavor, and Thunder Wave.

Aggron also has Metal Burst ... not that its a great move but it does learn it. Aren't these distinctions large enough for them both to see some use?

Let Probopass in UU and Bastiodon gets shot straight down to NU, where I of course would welcome it.

I already thought Bastiodon was NU, and Probass UU?

 

[Forsety]

The only thing with Steelix is that it completely outclasses Aggron and Bastiodon in most scenarios. The only things that merit Aggron over Steelix is better attack, Subpunching, STAB Stone Edge, Endeavor, and Thunder Wave.

In general STAB Stone Edge off 110 attack is pretty nice on its own with Iron Head to boot now something it never had in Advance. It gives Aggron the most powerful rock attack in the game of any Steel type (Metagross only gets Rock Slide) which actually means *gasp* Aggron has damage potential now!

(No STAB Iron Tail in Advance does not count and Aggron was always on the weak side offensively in Advance because of it.)

Of course, being physical walls with limited attack power they don't really unbalance UU, but they do basically render their current counterparts useless.

Probopass operates better as a special wall having only one mainly special weakness, Aggron could never wall anything to begin with in any environment and Bastiodon is pure crap. Seriously the one who gave Bastiodon its typing and stats needs shooting.

Theres hardly anything for Steelix to outclass in the first place in that kind of role and anyone who uses Aggron as a physical wall deserves to lose anyway.

Aggron has more use offensively considering it has a quite frankly godly movepool and still something resembling special attack for those who feel novel and even a move to fix its speed now (Rock Polish). If you count it up Aggron has a strong solid attack for TWELVE of the elements in the game and various versions of them either physical or special, it'd be a crime not to put that to use.

Right about now Golem is crying because of Aggron's existance given they're more similar than most would believe.

(Just making it clear I'm only pointing out Steelix has no counterpart and can't be compared.)

More Like "SWITCH ON SR!" "MAGNET RISE!" STEELIX USED ROAR! Other Pokemon was dragged out!"

That was more an amusing note on how pathetic its speed is than anything serious. Even I would rarely run Taunt alongside Magnet Rise in UU so I'd give you that. Although I would run them together in standard for Skarmory issues.

But have we determined that all the pokemon in BL are too powerful for UU through testing?

Experience through the Advance game would teach most people enough about what they lacked to begin with and its been long enough with D/P to get an idea now. Then you have things which are no brainers.

 

[ODDish]

Experience through the Advance game would teach most people enough about what they lacked to begin with and its been long enough with D/P to get an idea now. Then you have things which are no brainers.

But if something that is supposedly BL has not been used in OU wouldn't that suggest that it is not as powerful as originally thought? Shouldn't we at least test these pokemon in UU as it stands now?

 

[Pneuma]

I'm constantly surprised at how accurate theorymon is. When you think through possible counters and the average reaction of most people without focusing too hard on stats or certain moves, theorymon is analogous to the metagame.

I remember when everyone started talking about D/P back when I joined and serebii was releasing information in blocks. And with every new block, predictions were instantly made to its placement and nearly all of them held up.

Garchomp being a versatile powerhouse? Check.
Infernape obsoleting Blaziken and being a nasty mixer? Check.
Stealth Rock raping everything? Check.
Cresselia sponging until the end of time? Check.
Sandstorm being even more overused? And Hail finally getting a boon to leave Rain and Sun behind? Yeah, pretty much.
Choice Specs forcing every team to have a Bliss? Sadly.

Occasionally there was the Floatzel case ("What the hell is this? Oh wait it learns Taunt and it's fast.") which could push things from seemingly UU to BL but rarely has anything gone against that gradient down from BL to UU. Once something is deemed powerful enough to hold in standard, there is the desire to call it standard instead of "using a UU in standard."

Why we have that desire is not so clear. (My best guess would be that lazy people don't dare look into UU for something new to put on a standard team. Let the intelligentsia decide what is good and what isn't and let the average 14-15yr old pick his 6-standard team from the list of ~50.)

 

[Coffee]

A quick look at the BL list says that really, only shedinja and regigigas strike me as weak enough for UU, but I have never used them, so I can't really comment.

Re: Drapion - this guy I have used, and the crit hax version is fucking terrifying. It can easily set up an SD, and after that just about anything it crits that doesn't resist (ie anything not a steel) is dead. It's almost like having an OHKO move that just happens to deal damage if it misses. One weak is almost more useful than no weaks, because it makes your opponent telegraph, and pushing a telegraph into a ground move is useful due to widespread immunity. Keep in mind the psychological effect of threatening instant kills usually makes people try to exploit its weakness, especially if they know meta but suck at prediction.

I don't see any particular problem with having a large BL list, to be honest.

I'm assuming you meant ground so since when did poison resist bug?

 

[Sovereign]

Uh, if I followed that totally unconnected paragraph correctly, I think Braze was trying to say that you can trick the opponent into using earthquake against drapion, but switch to a flyer instead of attacking.

 

[iruchii]

I'm assuming you meant ground so since when did poison resist bug?

Since GSC I think. Or was it RSE?

Anyway... it's been quite for long time like that.

 

[Deck Knight]

In general STAB Stone Edge off 110 attack is pretty nice on its own with Iron Head to boot now something it never had in Advance. It gives Aggron the most powerful rock attack in the game of any Steel type (Metagross only gets Rock Slide) which actually means *gasp* Aggron has damage potential now!

And Steelix has the most powerful Ground attack (all EVs, natures, and items being equal, though Max Attack Groos technically has more power in EQ, especially CB Groos) of any Steel type in the game, and the best Steel type attack outside of Metagross Meteor Mash. Steel and Rock is completely redundant coverage (SE: Rock and Ice), so Iron Head is hardly useful, whereas at least Steel and Ground cover different things.

Probopass operates better as a special wall having only one mainly special weakness, Aggron could never wall anything to begin with in any environment and Bastiodon is pure crap. Seriously the one who gave Bastiodon its typing and stats needs shooting.

Not arguing Bastiodon's craptasticness, but with neutrality to Fire, Electric, and Grass and no infinite Sandstorm, Probopass doesn't do that great a job of dealing with, say, Ninetales, nor does it have a good way of dealing with Walrein/Lapras, or even Lanturn (providing they have Surf, of course). Moreover, now that HP Fighting is special and a viable option on many pokemon, Probopass isn't that safe. It won't be pegged by Earth Power or Aura Sphere much, but HP Fite and Ground will be around. I'm not knocking Probopass though, that thing is seriously a fat POS.

Theres hardly anything for Steelix to outclass in the first place in that kind of role and anyone who uses Aggron as a physical wall deserves to lose anyway.

Many Aggron run Max HP and a +Defense nature(with no EVs), that makes it a defacto physical wall and works well with any non-Choice Band or non-Life Orb set.

Aggron has more use offensively considering it has a quite frankly godly movepool and still something resembling special attack for those who feel novel and even a move to fix its speed now (Rock Polish). If you count it up Aggron has a strong solid attack for TWELVE of the elements in the game and various versions of them either physical or special, it'd be a crime not to put that to use.

STAB on Stone Edge is the extent of Aggron's power moves. UnSTabbed EQ and Focus Punch simply aren't that threatening in a metagame where nearly all Aggrons switchings will be nuetral to both. Thunderpunch has the same power as Stone Edge, Thunderbolt is LOLtastic, and LO Ice Beam is the only thing that might ward off, say Sandslash and Gligar, but won't do crap to Meganium.

Sure, Aggron has a big movepool and a decent attack stat, but none of its moves are useful for taking out its counters except in rare, purposefully engineered scenarios.

Personally if I wanted a defensively oriented Bander I'd use Relicanth, which has a better offensive coverage and an even more powerful Rock move.

Right about now Golem is crying because of Aggron's existance given they're more similar than most would believe.

Golem is crying so much because it laughs at Aggron. In a match between the two, unless LO Surf or Ice Beam becomes popular, Golem wins. Nevermind that I'd much rather have STAB Earthquake, STAB Stone Edge, and Explosion available after a Rock Polish than Aggron's hodgepodge of mediocre unboosted offensive moves.

(Just making it clear I'm only pointing out Steelix has no counterpart and can't be compared.)

Without Life Orb Aggron cannot utilize its special movepool well. Left only with physical options, Steelix easiliy outclasses Aggron because STAB Earthquake and Gyro Ball (or alternatively, Explosion) are much more useful than anything Aggron possesses. Neither of them do a damn thing to Bulky Waters, and Steelix has the edge with Explosion. Furthermore, Aggron cannot take any boosted Ground or Fighting attacks, whereas Steelix can.

In short, Steelix relegates Aggron's only somewhat useful, unique position to mediocre, highly situational mixed attacker. Steelix does the defensive physical attacker much better. Golem and Relicanth make for better Rock Polishers, and Probopass is an entirely different animal altogether and not really relevant to Aggron.

 

[Bourbon]

Aw, cmon. Aggrons not THAT sucky, is it? I happen to like Aggron. Anyways, yeah, Steelix should be tested, IMO, to see if it's UU material. I didn't think it had that good of attack, but I could be wrong...

 

[Deck Knight]

Aw, cmon. Aggrons not THAT sucky, is it? I happen to like Aggron. Anyways, yeah, Steelix should be tested, IMO, to see if it's UU material. I didn't think it had that good of attack, but I could be wrong...

I love Aggron too, but facts are facts: it doesn't cut the mustard when compared to Steelix.

 

[Darkflagrance]

I'm constantly surprised at how accurate theorymon is. When you think through possible counters and the average reaction of most people without focusing too hard on stats or certain moves, theorymon is analogous to the metagame.

I remember when everyone started talking about D/P back when I joined and serebii was releasing information in blocks. And with every new block, predictions were instantly made to its placement and nearly all of them held up.

Garchomp being a versatile powerhouse? Check.
Infernape obsoleting Blaziken and being a nasty mixer? Check.
Stealth Rock raping everything? Check.
Cresselia sponging until the end of time? Check.
Sandstorm being even more overused? And Hail finally getting a boon to leave Rain and Sun behind? Yeah, pretty much.
Choice Specs forcing every team to have a Bliss? Sadly.

Occasionally there was the Floatzel case ("What the hell is this? Oh wait it learns Taunt and it's fast.") which could push things from seemingly UU to BL but rarely has anything gone against that gradient down from BL to UU. Once something is deemed powerful enough to hold in standard, there is the desire to call it standard instead of "using a UU in standard."

Why we have that desire is not so clear. (My best guess would be that lazy people don't dare look into UU for something new to put on a standard team. Let the intelligentsia decide what is good and what isn't and let the average 14-15yr old pick his 6-standard team from the list of ~50.)

What about Garchomp and Rhyperior being thought so owerpowered they might overcentralize the metagame? What about not being able to predict the Uber status of Manaphy?

There are other cases where theorymon fails, so don't just harp on the successes.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Or maybe it's just that because everyone's on here reading the theory mon, no one ever goes out of their way and discovers something really great. :/

 

[Dragontamer]

You're missing the purpose of the BL tier system, my friend. A pokemon cannot fall from BL to UU based on useage. Even if nobody used Leafeon from now until the end of time, he would not go down to UU. If a Pokemon is in BL, it is because he is simply too powerful for UU.

Pokemon can, in theory, drop for OU to BL based on useage though. That may be what you're thinking of.

The thing is however, perhaps we have set the UU environment to be too weak. One goal of UU is to use set up an environment where less common pokemon can be used. Banning 60+ non-standard pokemon from that environment seems counterproductive towards that goal.

Again, it was a little late for me to notice that, so perhaps it really is too late to change it now.

 

[Murkrow]

But really when you're trying to demote Pokemon just for the sake of "BL TIER IS HUEG111" then you're not doing it for the right reasons at all and for the sake of kicking a dead horse. Do remember BL tier = Standard environment. Its not its own game as most people believe.

Yes, you are right, but that's not exactly how I'm picturing it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but BL = overpowered for UU, but less-used in OU. Right? So demotion for the sake of "BL TIER IS HUEG111" would work a little more like this in my mind:

Move down Pokemon X, Y, and Z, which are at the bottom of BL. Since X, Y, and Z are in UU, Pokemon T, U, and V are no longer overpowered in UU. Then we can move them down too.

(Because our definition of what is UU-standard power is somewhat arbitrary, we could also say that the UU standards should be Seaking, Arbok, and Altaria, and that Aggron and Quagsire are now too powerful and should be moved to BL. On the other hand, if we raised the baseline "standardness" of UU we could take down more BL Pokemon.) Well, that's just how I see it.

edit - OK, Dragontamer beat me to it. I agree 100% with what he just said.

 

[Fishin]

I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but at the same time, if something in UU only has one real counter, couldn't that be considered overcentralizing the metagame?

On the other hand, not all pokemon are like that. Rather obvious, but some pokemon are a lot more feasibly placable in UU than others.

 

[Lee]

Putting the talk of "toughening up UU" to one side, by our current standards what do you think about Hitmonlee?

The comparisons can really be drawn to Heracross. With a Choice Band and a Jolly nature (note: 508 Att 300 speed), Hitmonlee also packs enough raw power to 2HKO a Skarmory or Swampert, so it's safe to say that the standard Fight-weak walls of UU will have no chance with him.

I'll assume the standard Choice Band moveset of Close Combat/Blaze Kick/Stone Edge/Mach Punch. From a scan of the current UU tier, nothing wants to switch into this thing. Even Max HP Hypno takes a potential 2HKO from Close Combat, with a definate 2HKO from Stone Edge.

Of course, he can also do a Choice Scarf set, or a Reversal set.

Like Pinsir, he looks to be a case of predict well or die. Unless of course, Claydol does come downstairs to UU. He's a pretty perfect counter.

 

[teekay]

Wouldn't the Nidos be pretty safe Hitmonlee counters?

 

[ODDish]

The comparisons can really be drawn to Heracross.

Hmm ... I'm not sure, Heracross is much sturdier with more balanced defences. With its 53 base defence and horrible hit points Hitmonlee really can't afford to take any kind of hard physical hit, therefore has to be careful what it switches in on.

With a Choice Band and a Jolly nature (note: 508 Att 300 speed), Hitmonlee also packs enough raw power to 2HKO a Skarmory or Swampert, so it's safe to say that the standard Fight-weak walls of UU will have no chance with him.

True, but as you later say "he looks to be a case of predict well or die", but that argument can be nade for any number of mon.

I'll assume the standard Choice Band moveset of Close Combat/Blaze Kick/Stone Edge/Mach Punch. From a scan of the current UU tier, nothing wants to switch into this thing

.

Altaria does a pretty decent job with its good defences, resistance to three of those attacks and recovery move (has to watch out for Stone Edge though). Then of course any of the ghosts can come in on predicted fighting moves and force it out with the threat of Wisp, Torkoal can easily take a Blaze kick and then Wisp it. Protect is also useful.

Of course, he can also do a Choice Scarf set, or a Reversal set.

He can do CS but most opt for CB, and the reversal set is no where near as popular anymore due to the increase in priority moves (most of which are physical)

Don't get me wrong Hitmonlee is powerful, I'm just never felt that its too powerful for UU.