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Dragon Arceus (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by drcossack, Dec 15, 2010.

  1. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    Arceus

    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>With Arceus' ability giving it the ability to become any type, it gains the power of STAB on Dragon type attacks. With base 120 stats, a respectable movepool, and Dragon STAB + other attacks, Arceus is easily able to use both specially and physically offensive sets.

    [Set]
    Name: Swords Dance
    Move 1: Swords Dance
    Move 2: Outrage
    Move 3: Earthquake
    Move 4: Extremespeed
    Item: Draco Plate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Adamant

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With the prevalence of Dragon-types in Ubers, a Physical Dragon Arceus can be used effectively. The moves chosen for this set provide nearly perfect coverage, with extremespeed useful for finishing off Pokemon that are almost dead. The item choice, unfortunately, prevents Arceus from getting STAB on Extremespeed and the extra damage from Silk Scarf, but Extremespeed isn't meant to be the primary method of dealing damage on this set.</p>

    <p>After a Swords Dance, there is little that can switch in on this Arceus set - a STAB Outrage off of 744 attack will even put a major dent in the pokemon that resist it, while OHKO'ing or 2HKOing everything else. Earthquake, when combined with Outrage, allows Arceus to hit the steels that can switch in on its STAB. Steels such as Nattorei, Forretress, and Skarmory are not as threatened by Earthquake, however, which makes it easier for them to deal with the God of Pokemon. Extremespeed, without STAB and Silk Scarf, does not have the ability to rip unprepared teams apart just by putting Stealth Rock into play, but it still does a respectable amount of damage after a Swords Dance.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Like most Arceus sets that focus on sweeping over defense, longevity is an issue, especially with a large number of Dragon and Ice attacks being present in Ubers. Because of Arceus' access to a priority attack in the form of Extremespeed, the Speed EVs can be shifted into HP to prevent it from dying quickly. If the extra damage from an Adamant Nature isn't an issue, and outspeeding Latios and Latias is a bigger concern, Jolly can be used to move faster than both. A Jolly Arceus, due to the boost from Nature, can run fewer speed EVs - with 176 Speed EVs, Arceus hits 352 speed, which is more than enough to outrun the Lati twins. With the re-allocation of those speed EVs, Arceus can run 80 HP EVs for some added bulk, putting it at 401 HP.</p>

    <p>because of a much weaker Eextremespeed, a Swords Dance Boost may not guarantee that Dragon Arceus is able to OHKO the Scarfed Dragons prevalent in Ubers. Groudon, due to its defense, can check Scarfers such as Garchomp and Zekrom. Other ways to deal with Physical Scarfers include Impish Giratina, who is 2HKO'd by Outrage.</p>

    <p>Fast Physical attacking Dragons are not the only problem. Special attackers such as Palkia and Dialga can do just as much damage. To check those threats, pokemon such as Kyogre and Ferrothorn can use their defense and/or typing to absorb Draco Meteors and Spacial Rends.</p>

    [Set]
    Name: Calm Mind
    Move 1: Calm Mind
    Move 2: Judgment
    Move 3: Recover
    Move 4: Earth Power
    Item: Draco Plate
    Evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This Arceus uses its STAB and movepool for excellent coverage. While Calm Mind only provides a +1 boost to SpA, the special set has the ability to tank hits better than its physical counterpart.</p>

    <p>Calm Mind allows Arceus to boost its high SpA/SpD to even higher levels, making it a fearsome sweeper and special tank. After one or two turns of setup, Arceus can plow through teams with relative ease. Judgment serves as Arceus' STAB attack, hitting everything for either neutral or super-effective damage. With its high Base Power, STAB, and boost from the Draco Plate, Judgment easily deals with Dragon types and Pokemon without SpD investment. Recover, when combined with Calm Mind, allows Arceus to live indefinitely against the special attackers prevalent in the Uber tier. Against pokemon who otherwise cannot do anything in return, such as entry hazard users, Recover serves as a way to heal off any damage that Arceus may have incurred while setting up. Earth Power completes Arceus' coverage, allowing it to easily deal with the steel types that resist Judgment.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Like the Physical set, the Speed EVs can be shifted into HP to give Arceus a little more bulk. Because of Calm Mind, special attacks are not as big a problem for this Arceus set, but physical attacks are.</p>

    <p>Because of Skarmory's ability to wall this set, Flamethrower is an option over Earth Power. That does, however, allow a Heatran to come in with impunity.</p>

    <p>Due to the power Dragon Arceus holds, it can sweep teams by itself with little effort. However, it can not deal with Physical attackers very easily. Groudon, Ferrothorn, and to a lesser extent, Giratina, all have the ability to tank Outrage's damage. The opposing Pokemon can then be phazed or burned.</p>

    [Set]
    Name: SubCM
    Move 1: Substitute
    Move 2: Calm Mind
    Move 3: Judgment
    Move 4: Recover
    Item: Draco Plate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    <p>With the prevalence of status from Pokemon like Blissey, this set seeks to deal with that problem.</p>

    <p>The addition of Refresh prevents Toxic, regular poison, and Paralysis from hindering Arceus' ability to sweep. While the Burn status has no direct effect on Arceus' ability to sweep, it does mean that Arceus' lifespan is limited. Substitute serves to prevent Arceus from being statused again, and has the added benefit of helping Arceus deal with the things that threaten it, such as other Dragons. Chansey and Blissey, who generally cannot deal with a CM Arceus without status, are completely walled due to Substitute and Refresh. Judgment serves as Arceus' STAB, and can be boosted to higher levels through Calm Mind. After a few boosts, very little will be able to safely deal with Arceus, should it be behind a sub.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because of Arceus' movepool and Bulk, the mono-attacking Refresh set can be used to deal with defensive pokemon such as Blissey, as they are are unable to status it. However, Lugia and Giratina can still phaze Arceus out. Lugia, due to its typing and bulk, has an easier time phazing Dragon Arceus - Giratina is 2HKOd by an unboosted Dragon-type Judgment, while Lugia can take more punishment before using Dragon Tail.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Because of Arceus' movepool and bulk, the mono-attacking Refresh set can also employ a physical version, using Outrage and Swords Dance over Judgment and Calm Mind.</p>

    <p>On its offensive sets, Arceus may have above average speed and power, but it can still be manhandled easily by Scarfed Dragons with strong physical attacks, regardless of the set. Weakening the physical sweepers with Burn is strongly recommended, as the resulting attack drop can help keep Arceus alive in the face of an Outrage. Fast or Bulky pokemon such as Mewtwo, Giratina, or Ho-oh can easily inflict Burn.</p>

    <p>Groudon's ability to summon permanent Sun can also be a useful partner for Arceus. Steels such as Nattorei can deal with it fairly easily if it lacks a Fire Move, making it worth considering.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Skarmory, Blissey, Nattorei, and Forretress can deal with either or both of Dragon Arceus' offensive sets. For the Steel types that aren't bothered by Earthquake or Earth Power, a fire type attack such as Flamethrower is worth considering. Blissey is able to switch in against the non-Refresh Special set with impunity, allowing the pink blob to slowly kill it with Toxic. Scarfed Dragons are not able to switch in on Arceus' Judgment or Outrage, but their ability to outrun Arceus makes it easy for them to revenge-kill the offensive sets.</p>
  2. Shnoogle

    Shnoogle

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    Make sure to add 4 EVs for every set. QC requires you to do so
  3. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

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    Fire Blast or Flamethrower should be used over Earth Power on the CM set as you listed the three most common steel walls in ubers are all listed as counters. Neutral Judgement does almost the same damage as Super Effective Earth Power. For example: at +1 Judgement does 60.9% - 72.3% while +2 Earth Power does 61.4% - 72.3% to 252/112 Dialga(the difference is 2 points on min damage). +1 Fire Blast is a guarenteed 2hko on Skarmoy in the rain while Flamethrower doesn't miss and has more PP.
  4. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Hm, does Dragon Arceus even need Extremespeed?? He outspeeds pretty much everything apart from Scarfed revengers like Scarf Palkia and Dialga anyway (Just use Wobb). Fire Blast and Thunder can be options so Arceus doesn't get walled by Skarm.
  5. calze6

    calze6

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    Recover does deserve a slash, imo. Still, ES plays a pseudo rayquaza role but faster. It is still prone to threats such as mewtwo though and scarfers. You need D claw over outrage as if something faster comes in, it can just kill arceus while with d claw, you can then ES it.
  6. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Earth Power is for Heatran.
  7. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

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    Heatram is uncommon while one of Nattorei Forretress and Skarmory are on most teams these days. Yes, Earth Power should be mentioned, but the only thing it hits that a fire attack can't is Heatran while a fire move deals with the 3 most common steels at the moment. Skarmory is immune to Earth Power while the other two take about as much damage from Judgement.
  8. Theorymon

    Theorymon AHHHH REAL GOOMBAS!
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    Before I can apporve this, you really need a mono Calm Mind set with Refresh / Sub, its pretty handy for beating Blissey and Chansey.
  9. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    Added the Special attacking Refresh set theorymon mentioned, added a little more to the other sections. I thought about Recover on the Refresh set, but I had difficulty seeing a spot for it, as Substitute helps against things like Scarf Zekrom, Reshiram, and Garchomp.
  10. trickroom

    trickroom
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    The Refresh set is really good to take out Chansey or Blissey since other wise the blobs kill Arceus with Toxic.

    Lugia can actually beat the Calm Mind set one-on-one if Lugia also has Calm Mind and Psycho Shock since Lugia has better defenses and Psycho Shock strikes on the physical side.

    I am unsure but Lugia and Groudon can at least check the Swords Dancer I guess, since Lugia can survive the hit and Reflect Toxic Roost stall it. Groudon can Dragon Tail but I guess that's all.
  11. JSND

    JSND

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    doesnt D Claw can be slashed ? your using swords dance which means you boost faster but you can still be walled and easier to wall that way but you can switch move(same case as in SD ray).
    And with 120 Speed and bulk you are not an inferior rayquaza in anyway with every moveset since you can actualy survive ice beam if you need to unlike ray(im not saying you say this okay).
    Also scarf palkia has a chance to not OHKO min/min neutral nature arceus even with SR(albeit small chance). Seeing arceus is technicaly the fastest dragon in ubers this might need mention
  12. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Looks good. I am unsure whether Fire Blast should be slashed on the CM set since it kills Skarmory, Forretress and Nattorei which you can't kill otherwise. Earth Power isn't harmed by weather though. In the rain, Jirachi and Steel Arceus can laugh at Fire Blast but they will still hate Earth Power.

    Mention an alternate spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe for the Mono-CM Status Blocker. With Max HP it can abuse Arceus's bulk and the substitute can now survive Seismic Toss from Blissey or Chansey.

    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 1/2
  13. Great Sage

    Great Sage

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    Even the regular spread for the mono-attacker should have enough HP for at least 404 HP, so it can make Substitutes that aren't broken by Seismic Toss. Other than that, it looks good. Dragon Arceus is actually surprisingly depressing.

    QC APPROVED 2/2
  14. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    You asked me to add this to the queue, but it has some fundamental problems with its content. You cannot refer to other sets in a set, like you do for pretty much every set that's not the SD set. Also, because there is no TO section anymore, you absolutely need to list set-specific team options in the AC for each set. What you currently have for the CM set, for instance, is insufficient by a long shot. Once you update this, I'll take a look at it again.
  15. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    So looking at this... I don't know. Kind of seems bare-boned and seems pretty spacey. Also seeing a lot of "Because" at the beginning of sentences. Well Rising_Dusk, what say you now?
  16. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    this got taken over

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