Dragonite

hmm.. is scarf dragonite a valid option?
scarf nite and scarf hence both suck hard this gen
scarfers aren't too great this gen imo, except for a selection of very few

on a side note, in DW OU, scarfers are everywhere (genosect, ditto, chandy...if you consider it non uber)...but with a selection of few (roflbitchedlol)

like somebody mentioned before, it could be used as a surprise lead but id much rather not
 

alphatron

Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
You'd be better off using Agility DNite. I'm pretty sure the original set for Rain dragonite ran agility anyway.
 

New World Order

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Chansey is consistently hovering around the OU/UU border, so it does matter. Jirachi still stands because of Dragonite's pathetic speed. Latias lives due to Leftovers. I might've made a mistake with the Rotom-W calcs.

However, you assume that you predict right every time. There are many pokemon who can come in on one of those moves and proceed to KO. For example, what happens if you try thundering an opponent`s Skarmory and Latios comes in? Because of Life Orb, you are no longer under the protection of Multi Scale and you're gonna die. Also, for a wallbreaker to be considered successful, it must be able to either make multiple KOs, or score a KO and put nasty dents into 2/3 other pokemon. If MixMence manages to take out 50% Infernape, then dies immediately after, this is not a mission accomplished. I've played with and against Rain MixNite of all sorts, and it was underwhelming on both sides. I found I could never score more than one KO with it, and when I played against it, I found it would never take more than one poke with it, and thats usually some random Celebi at 20% it takes out as well.

For the Life Orb variant of Dragonite, I say, why bother? Just use the Outrage, Draco Meteor, Earthquake, Fire Blast Salamence. Screw 2HKOs, that thing OHKOs like 3/4 of the metagame. Even Balloon Heatran isn't going to enjoy Outrage at all.
 

New World Order

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You guys are ALL wrong. Palpitoad is the best pokemon in OU. I've used it to KO Dialga, Zekrom, Groudon, Rayquaza, Mewtwo, Reshiram and Giratina-O before. I think I might even have the logs still.

In all seriousness, there is no "best pokemon" in OU. Its all about giving them proper support. Some may even argue that the support pokemon are "the best" because they make the powerhouses like Dragonite, Excadrill, and Volcorona just that much more threatening. Because with paralysis and False Swipe support, even Palpitoad can take out ubers.
 

alexwolf

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Chansey is consistently hovering around the OU/UU border, so it does matter. Jirachi still stands because of Dragonite's pathetic speed. Latias lives due to Leftovers. I might've made a mistake with the Rotom-W calcs.

However, you assume that you predict right every time. There are many pokemon who can come in on one of those moves and proceed to KO. For example, what happens if you try thundering an opponent`s Skarmory and Latios comes in? Because of Life Orb, you are no longer under the protection of Multi Scale and you're gonna die. Also, for a wallbreaker to be considered successful, it must be able to either make multiple KOs, or score a KO and put nasty dents into 2/3 other pokemon. If MixMence manages to take out 50% Infernape, then dies immediately after, this is not a mission accomplished. I've played with and against Rain MixNite of all sorts, and it was underwhelming on both sides. I found I could never score more than one KO with it, and when I played against it, I found it would never take more than one poke with it, and thats usually some random Celebi at 20% it takes out as well.

For the Life Orb variant of Dragonite, I say, why bother? Just use the Outrage, Draco Meteor, Earthquake, Fire Blast Salamence. Screw 2HKOs, that thing OHKOs like 3/4 of the metagame. Even Balloon Heatran isn't going to enjoy Outrage at all.
First of all Chansey is not hovering anywhere.
She is solidly UU.It was number 60 in OU usage and number 10 in UU usage this August.
You can still use her sure but she is a rare sight and since she is out of ou let's leave her out since i asked you for OU pokes that don't get destroyed by Dnite.

Prediction is required with all wallbreakers my friend and even more with Mixmence.If you get too cocky and spam DM at the wrong time(When a steel type comes in)you now have no special attacking presence.
So i don't really see why this is an argument against Mixnite and not wallbreakers in general.

Also about the part which a wallbreaker must kill and damage more than one of the opposing memebers to be succesful i have to say this.Most opponents who see a wallbreaker will try to overpredict him so they can safely bring in something that can kill it(either outspeeding it or with priority).So when they switch in a poke that can get 2hkoed by the wallbreaker they don't just let it die,usually,they just switch out trying to get a safe switch.
That's why these pokes are called wallbreakers.They soften or kill the opposing walls so that your main sweeper can get a clean sweep.
Do you get it?
So as long as Dnite can 2hko almost any wall in OU you are free to sweep with your sweeper when that wall is removed or heavily injured!
Games are not so simple as you make them be.It doesn't go like:''i have a poke and if it kills one we are even''.
Also after Dnite kills something the next poke is going to take a big hit if it is slower or a a strong priority hit if it is faster,except for a few things like faster steels,ghosts and terakion(they take little from ES and they outspeed Mixnite).

Also about the part where you used Mixnite and you were let down the reason was simple!You were using it poorly.In my rain team it is an mvp many times and softens walls very nicely before something like Thundurus sweeps.

And finally about your point on Salamence.I have mentioned again the reasons to use Mixnite over Mixmence.
These reasons are:
A spammable strong special attack that doesn't lower your S.atc.
Higher bulk.
Priority.
Different coverage and thus different targets get hit better from Dnite.
Element of surprise.

Now the reasons to use Mixmence:
Higher speed.
Stronger special attacks right of the bat.
Different coverage and thus different targets get hit better from Salamence.
The potential of having Roost,due to having already excelent coverage with 3 moves.

For me both are superb wallbreakers that work very good.For you the one is good while the other isan't.That's fine but please stop spreading the misconception that Mixmence outclasses Mixnite as a wallbreaker and that rain abusing Dnite sucks.
 
Sure but is Rhyperior really seen in this metagame.... and the most efective sets for Dragonite would be either bulky DD or regular DD in my opinion :L
 
I use Eviolite Dusclops with Disable. He lolz at Dragonite. Almost any Pokémon can be the best in OU because the metagame is ridiculous.
no one will ever be satisfied with the meta... just deal with it... even ppl who say "all i want is THIS guy banned and it will be fixed" ALWAYS renig on that thought when its actually banned. i die a little inside when people talk about banning shit.
 

New World Order

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no one will ever be satisfied with the meta... just deal with it... even ppl who say "all i want is THIS guy banned and it will be fixed" ALWAYS renig on that thought when its actually banned. i die a little inside when people talk about banning shit.
^
This is what I've been arguing on Dragonspiral for weeks. So many people just want to ban shit because they suck at teambuilding, and often find themselves weak to Dragonite, Thundurus, Reuniclus, Excadrill, Volcorona and *snigger* Jirachi.
 

New World Order

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Alright alexwolf, I've realized I'm a complete retard, but not because I don't like Dragonite. Here's why:

Choice Scarf Tyranitar.

Thats right, the answer was staring at me the whole time long, but I didn't even bother looking at it. The second most common set of the most common pokemon in the game is the answer. The rain is instantly negated, and Aqua Tail is hence neutered. Since Scarftar is faster, it can just Stone Edge away, since Dragonite's Multi Scale wont be in tact anymore, its gonna die. Oh, and Extremespeed is gonna do diddly shit as well. So, yeah, now we got 2 top 10 OUs in Ttar and Jirachi that aren't 2HKOd. Is that a good enough answer? I would dig deeper and bring out things like Porygon2 as well, but you'll probably just use the Chansey argument again, not that I need to bring it up anyways. If Scarf Tyranitar isn't used enough, then I'd really love to hear your definition of a popular set.
 

alexwolf

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Alright alexwolf, I've realized I'm a complete retard, but not because I don't like Dragonite. Here's why:

Choice Scarf Tyranitar.

Thats right, the answer was staring at me the whole time long, but I didn't even bother looking at it. The second most common set of the most common pokemon in the game is the answer. The rain is instantly negated, and Aqua Tail is hence neutered. Since Scarftar is faster, it can just Stone Edge away, since Dragonite's Multi Scale wont be in tact anymore, its gonna die. Oh, and Extremespeed is gonna do diddly shit as well. So, yeah, now we got 2 top 10 OUs in Ttar and Jirachi that aren't 2HKOd. Is that a good enough answer? I would dig deeper and bring out things like Porygon2 as well, but you'll probably just use the Chansey argument again, not that I need to bring it up anyways. If Scarf Tyranitar isn't used enough, then I'd really love to hear your definition of a popular set.
367 Atk vs 256 Def & 341 HP (90 Base Power): 242 - 286 (70.97% - 83.87%)

367 Atk vs 256 Def & 341 HP (80 Base Power): 53 - 63 (15.54% - 18.48%)

These 2 calculations show the damage that an aqua tail and an extremespeed do.
With SR combined it is a 2hko more than 50% of the time!
And since you have a ttar and you play against a rain team,i don't think that you want to risk losing your most important poke to a gamble when the odds are not in your favour would you?
Finally about Jirachi as i said again,it is not a reliable counter.It is a very good check but it can still be 2hkoed if you don't get flinched from iron head the first time.
And you can always use Inner Focus if you want to be sure about the 2hko on Jirachi.
And don't tell me that if i don't use MS i don't have any reason to use Mixnite 'cause i think i explained to you how Mixnite works and how it doesn't really need MS to function properly...
You just have to switch in on a slow wall that can't hurt you and then you know...

I think that the only true counter to this set is Porygon2 although it counters Salamence too.
Let's see if you can find something else.
 
Alright alexwolf, I've realized I'm a complete retard, but not because I don't like Dragonite. Here's why:

Choice Scarf Tyranitar.

Thats right, the answer was staring at me the whole time long, but I didn't even bother looking at it. The second most common set of the most common pokemon in the game is the answer. The rain is instantly negated, and Aqua Tail is hence neutered. Since Scarftar is faster, it can just Stone Edge away, since Dragonite's Multi Scale wont be in tact anymore, its gonna die. Oh, and Extremespeed is gonna do diddly shit as well. So, yeah, now we got 2 top 10 OUs in Ttar and Jirachi that aren't 2HKOd. Is that a good enough answer? I would dig deeper and bring out things like Porygon2 as well, but you'll probably just use the Chansey argument again, not that I need to bring it up anyways. If Scarf Tyranitar isn't used enough, then I'd really love to hear your definition of a popular set.
Why is everyone so mad? Over Pokémon... on the internet... Can't we have normal discussion?

I think it's pretty obvious that a set made to abuse rain isn't going to work well in other weather.

And you're saying it like the person has no counter for Tyranitar on their rain team. That argument makes no sense.

Your entire argument makes so sense, really. Your argument is essentially, Dragonite cannot take down every single Pokémon in the game, therefore it is terrible. You've given two decent counters that most people are completely prepared for in some way with the rest of their team. Of course a Pokémon is going to have great counters, but Dragonite has relatively few and, as we can see from the fact that you had to "dig deeper" for lesser seen Pokémon like Porygon2 to come up with good counters other than Jirachi and Tyranitar, that makes it a decent set. It hits stuff hard, it's surprising, and while of course it isn't the best set, there's no need for everyone to go getting their undies in a twist over it. It has relatively few counters, which is all we can ask. It's a legit set; it's not at all bad enough to justify going apeshit over it.

I really don't understand why you feel the need to rage or go through various disturbing metaphors involving incest and rape to describe your feelings toward Dragonite...
 
swift swim, ice beam, focus sash luvdisc is the only true counter.


Jokes aside, I've found whimsicott is a good counter seeing as it only takes neutral/NVE damage from most mixmence sets and forces it out, wears it down, or paralyzes it.

Now, I run a physically bulky one with a bold nature, so that's just me, but I've seen a fair amount of nite's in rain and its been my number one counter to it. As for a non rain varient, then it doesn't counter that I've found.

But overall, the number one counter I've found to every dragonite this generation (almost all with MS) is Mold Breaker Haxorus. Adamant with a scarf is my revenge killer and excluding +2 speed Nite's, it always forces a switch or KO's outright.


I do agree with you though, that RainNite is extremely effective, and that mixnite is also extremely effective. I find Mixnite to be more situational, but still destructive especially considering his wide special movepool.
 
swift swim, ice beam, focus sash luvdisc is the only true counter.


Jokes aside, I've found whimsicott is a good counter seeing as it only takes neutral/NVE damage from most mixmence sets and forces it out, wears it down, or paralyzes it.

Now, I run a physically bulky one with a bold nature, so that's just me, but I've seen a fair amount of nite's in rain and its been my number one counter to it. As for a non rain varient, then it doesn't counter that I've found.

But overall, the number one counter I've found to every dragonite this generation (almost all with MS) is Mold Breaker Haxorus. Adamant with a scarf is my revenge killer and excluding +2 speed Nite's, it always forces a switch or KO's outright.


I do agree with you though, that RainNite is extremely effective, and that mixnite is also extremely effective. I find Mixnite to be more situational, but still destructive especially considering his wide special movepool.
Alexwolf mask: Dragonite xKOes with Extremespeed plus x# of hazards.


@TryeVillainy I never wanted DNite banned I just hate all Dragon type Pokémon for being remotely good in a sense.
 

alexwolf

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Alexwolf mask: Dragonite xKOes with Extremespeed plus x# of hazards.
Lol the only hazard i calculate always in is SR.
In every set here in smogon most of the 2hkoes are listed with SR in mind so maybe you would like to judge them also.
And please don't mention Chansey she is irrelevant.And even if she wasn't the fact that i listed that with Spikes you can 2hko her doesn't mean it will always be like this.I just posted that there is always this possibility.
The only thing that every competitive player assumes when talking about 2hkoes is SR.
And that's what i did!
 
Working on a new moveset to help abuse rain.

Quiet (252 Att, 252 SpAtt) with expert belt/lefties
-Hurricane
-Thunder
-Aqua Jet
-Dragon Tail

Multiscale helps you take a hit, while offensively Dnite loves the rain boost for STAB Hurricane, 100% accurate Thunder and boosted priority. It stinks to have -spd, but this allows max att/spatt EVs while your physical moves are unaffected by lack of speed. Going to test it tonight...
 
Aqua Jet sucks even in rain as Extremespeed still outdamages it. If you want priority, use Azumarill Aqua Jet in rain who takes better advantage in that scenario. Personally, I think Extremespeed is overrated on Dragonite because unless things like Latios or Haxorus have been weakened to about half their health, they'll take Extremespeed and murder you regardless. Extremespeed isn't all that strong unless it's +2 Life Orb Extremespeeds from things like Lucario, Arceus, or Rayquaza so I think Dragonite is better off not using it unless you're doing the Draco Meteor+Extremespeed mix set in which case Extremespeed is important in getting a number of 2 hit koes before the opponent.

Dragon Dance Dragonite should not use Extremespeed since having Earthquake to smack popped balloon Heatran and Jirachi into oblivion is way more useful. Plus, it doesn't lock you into Outrages against steels right away (especially Jirachi in rain).

I think the mixed Dragonite rain abuser (Aqua Tail/Hurricane/Thunder) would be better off using Roost since again if Latios or whatever comes in, they murder you since Extremespeed won't ko while you have a chance if you have Multi-Scale. Tyranitar still won't like Aqua Tail.

So I don't really like Extremespeed on anything but DracoMeteor/Extremespeed/Fireblast/Earthquake (Super Power). The power of Draco Meteor will help things get into Extremespeed kill range while the other's generally don't.
 

Katakiri

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Dragonite (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
- Surf


DW OU Rain Jerk. I team it up with Specs Tornadus & Lum Explosion(bye-bye, Blissey)/BB/Thunder/IB Genesect. Just kinda firing off Hurricanes & Thunders at everything that moves. Works fine in OU too. Don't knock it 'til you try it.
 
Can anybody help me out here? Is CB Nite worth building a team around? I've been into R/B Pokemons and Dragonite seems extremely viable this gen. So I would appreciate some Help. There are so, so many sets. I can't make up my mind,
 

Lamppost

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Can anybody help me out here? Is CB Nite worth building a team around? I've been into R/B Pokemons and Dragonite seems extremely viable this gen. So I would appreciate some Help. There are so, so many sets. I can't make up my mind,
IDK if I would necessarily build a team around it, but it's definitely one of the best Dnite sets out there. IMO it's the best sun counter in the game since it can beat Venasaur and Volcarona. CB Dnite is the only Pokemon that's viable in this Metagame that can do that to my knowledge. If you're packing a CB Dnite you never have to worry about sun teams (except for when Flame Body activates)
 

BurningMan

fueled by beer
CBNite isn't really the variant to use if you want to build a team around him he works much better as the glue of a team since he doesn't really need much suport to function while having useful resistances, strong priority and a great stab for wallbreaking. IMO you can slap it on almost every team and he will work of course he likes Wish/Rapid spin support, but he doesn't needs ultimately needs it to function well.
If you want to build a team around him the DD or weather abuse variants should be the way to go.
 

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