Metagame Dual Wielding

#51
So, I'm gonna bring up an issue that I feel completely invalidates the purpose of this meta. Knock Off. Not only does it knock off both items of the Pokémon that it uses it on, but it does EVEN MORE DAMAGE than usual, even when it's knocking a singular item off. Seeing as the entire purpose of this meta is to give Pokémon two items, and Knock Off removes that purpose, I believe it should be banned.
 
#52
So, I'm gonna bring up an issue that I feel completely invalidates the purpose of this meta. Knock Off. Not only does it knock off both items of the Pokémon that it uses it on, but it does EVEN MORE DAMAGE than usual, even when it's knocking a singular item off. Seeing as the entire purpose of this meta is to give Pokémon two items, and Knock Off removes that purpose, I believe it should be banned.
I agree that Knock off should be looked at,but I think there's another option aside from banning it. What I propose is we make only the item in the item slot knock off-able. My logic is,this would keep knock off from being too overpowered,since it's weaker and can only effect one item,and the item in the ability slot is kind of supposed to function as an ability anyway. Of course if this is too complicated to code,I am completely on board with banning knock off outright.
 
#53
Marowak-Alola @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Club
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Bone
- Flare Blitz
- Bonemerang
- Knock Off

I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but this is an insane wallbreaker (not that walls are exactly common in this meta). While there are faster Pokemon to use, it still hits significantly hard on anything that switches into it. Its weakness to Knock Off is quite a problem, seeing as how it's a common move. So, if you're (for some reason) trying to find something to break stall, this is the set for you! :]

Next is this monster:

Xurkitree @ Life Orb
Ability: Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball

Originally, this was Choice Scarf and Choice Specs but apparently that's banned. I changed it to Life Orb, as it still lets Xurkitree hard at the cost of some of its HP. Choice Scarf allows it to hit 436 speed, so it's able to outspeed anything that isn't running scarf.
 
Last edited:
#56
Here's some more to the list.

Porygon2 @ Normalium Z
Ability: Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt
- Conversion
- Tri Attack/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Discharge/Shadow Ball/Charge Beam/Psybeam
- Recover

Eviolite and Z-Conversion makes one of the few Pokémon that can actually survive a hit in this Choice+Life Orb Metagame. Shadow Ball is preferred for a better offensive/defensive typing but Thunderbolt has its own advantage. Tri Attack is go STAB witch gives it the extra power it looses from being Porygon-Z. Ice Beam, Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball all provides coverage. Discharge over Thunderbolt to fish for Paralyzing the opponent. Psystrike hits Calm Mind, Special walls and Assault Vest Pokémon better. Charge Beam is to further boost your Special Attack (Nasty Plot is only learned by Porygon-Z). A more defensive set could also be feasible but there's not of usable moves it can use and quickly runs into the 4-move symptom.


Some other possible setups (of varying degree of success)
Assault Vest+Z-Status move: Normally Assault Vest blocks the Pokémon from using status moves, but Z Moves are a kind of works around that. If you use a Z-status move, the Status Move still fails but the boost from the boost from the Z Move stills works, so Z-Splash will still give a +3 boost to attack and Z-Conversation will give +1 boost to all stats but will fail to change the Pokémon type (kind of useless though). The only problem is that you're probably better off using this defensively wich is hard to do in this meta (Someone should double check if that is how the game handles this via cheats though).

Light Ball+Eviolite: The supreme Pikachu finally arrives. To bad that it came a couple of super-powered-generations to late.

Slow Bulky Pokémon+Choice Band/Scarf+Sitris Berr/Wiki (or similar) Berry/Custap Berry: A interesting setup as you'll take a hit, and recover your health back, ready to continue your rampage, or with the Custap Berry get priority on your next move and deal a 2nd huge blow to your opponent.


Now that we have double items, can we finally get our double abilities tier that people been wanting ever since Pokémon Mystery Dungeon in Gen 3.
 
#57
alright, so for stall teams, is it feasible to run embargo? If so, this might be a decently powerful asset;

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rocky Helmet
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Defog/Knock Off
- Embargo
- Roost

A nice pokemon to just prevent the usage of items entirely. The only problem I see with this is that it only affects one target, so they could just switch out, and you would have to bring this pokemon in everytime you wanted to shut down something, but with entry hazards support, their switches become much less effective.
 
#59
Something random I thought of:
Should Megastones and Z crystals protect the other item from knock off/other removal methods?
They do prevent at the moment
[replay]dragonheaven-gen7dualwielding-46401[/replay]
Turn 1: Knock Off on Excadrill; Normalium Z prevents Life Orb from getting Knocked off
Turn 2: Knock Off; again the item stays
Turn 3: Darmanitan two items Knock Off
Turn 4: Charizardite X prevents Life Orb from getting Knocked off


Some sets

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Normaliumz
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hold Hands
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake / Thunder Punch

Dragon Dance unleashed
Though it loses Tough Claws and you can't use the Z-Move and Mega evolve on the same turn but after getting the boost, this looks prepared to sweep through teams with ease.
Band Scarf AV +1 Def
Or you can try a bulky spread of

EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 Atk
Impish Nature

Which can tank hits from Banded Kyurem-Black and other such hard hitters after a Z-HH
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. +1 200 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 294-346 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-Black Dragon Claw vs. +1 200 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 236-278 (68 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
But Outrage would still OHKO so I prefer the offensive one

Same thing for Zard Y

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Normalium Z
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hold Hands
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Dragon Pulse

+1 SpA = Sun Boosted Fire Blast
Fast, bulky, powerful with other moves
I prefer Dragon Pulse so that it doesn't get walled by Dracos but you can opt for Focus Blast if you feel like
But lacks instant power and Solar Beam provided by Drought get Sun support so we have another alternative

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Firium Z
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Dragon Pulse / Air Slash / Ancient Power / Focus Blast


If you get a free turn (Force a switchout) Mega and use regular Sunny Dance then we have Sun + a 185 base power nuke
Unfortunately you can't use the Z move before mega evolving even if the Z Crystal is in the item slot, I'm not sure how the mechanics work so don't know if its a bug but that would've been cool
For those of you who don't want to switchout against Chansey carry Flare Blitz with the Z-HH set if you can have Sun support (Forces to have Naive or Hasty nature though)
+1 0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 399-469 (56.7 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: salacberry
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Focus Punch
- Substitute / Rock Tomb

You can use Spore anyway regardless of the Speed, after that you'll get the boost, can set up Sub if possible then wreck with Focus Punch
Even more gimmicky is Sitrus Berry with Salac Berry and Endure which works better in the long run (You get guaranteed Sub) but other Scarfers would outspeed it
Breloom @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: salacberry
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Focus Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Endure



Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Choice Band / Life Orb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off

Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

Another offensive powerhouse with sky high physical attack only to be held back because of its low speed which can be checked by Scarf but I personally prefer Band because of its ridiculous power and there will be a lot of other Scarfers in Dual Wielding to outpseed it



Absol-Mega @ Absolite
Ability: Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
- Megahorn / Play Rough

Knock Off is one of the best moves in the meta and Mega Absol with Choice Band hits like a truck. Sucker Punch can be used to pick up lategame KOes



Excadrill @ Choice Band
Ability: Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Rapid Spin

Standard Dual Wielding set on a powerful attacker


Azelf @ Eject Button
Ability: Red Card
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sunny Day
- Explosion
- Reflect

Similar to Yahoobo's Aerodactyl, this can be used for setting up weather for Charizard

Volcanion @ Firium Z
Ability: Life Orb / Air Balloon / Focus Sash
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam / Sludge Wave

Z-Sunny Day for +1 Speed and then attack
Sash guarantees the setup, Life Orb provides more power to the already powerful Volco
 
Last edited:
#67
I'm pretty sure both fail, as no one actually has an ability.

Just so this post isn't a one-liner, here's a fun meme

Hoopa-Unbound @ Helix Fossil
Ability: Iron Ball
- Fling

Could be funny in Trick Room or something, or on the switch. 230 BP Fling with STAB will hurt.
Actually, using a Dread Plate instead of the Helix Fossil could make Fling reach 264 BP.
I guess it's worth noting.
 
#69
I agree that Knock off should be looked at,but I think there's another option aside from banning it. What I propose is we make only the item in the item slot knock off-able. My logic is,this would keep knock off from being too overpowered,since it's weaker and can only effect one item,and the item in the ability slot is kind of supposed to function as an ability anyway. Of course if this is too complicated to code,I am completely on board with banning knock off outright.
It would definitely be ideal if it could be coded this way, but like you said, it might or might not be too complicated, and depending on whether or not it's possible to have it act this way, it could be worth taking a look at knock off and possibly ban it if needed.
 
#71
So I know two choice items are banned, but what about two regular items? Can I have a snorlax for example with two leftovers and get that double recovery?