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Eelektross (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by bugmaniacbob, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    --------------------------

    [Overview]

    <p>Eelektross is well-known as the third Pokemon in the game without a single weakness. Being a pure Electric-type gives it only one weakness, to Ground-type attacks, which is cancelled out by Levitate. Moreover, this ability also happens to give it a useful immunity to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Unlike most Electric-types, Eelektross is slow and bulky, which immediately gives it a powerful niche in the metagame. Its excellent offensive stats of 115 base Attack and 105 base Special Attack only add to its appeal, and it has a good movepool as well. However, it is not without its faults. Its base 50 Speed stat is a real letdown, and means that, if it does not invest in Speed, Eelektross will actually find itself getting outpaced by many walls, including Blissey and Swampert, making it less threatening offensively. Furthermore, if you are looking for a faster Pokemon that does a similar sweeping job, Electivire is as good as it gets, with a near-identical movepool, higher Attack, and Motor Drive. Don't let this make you think that Eelektross is in any way outclassed, however—its access to Grass Knot, Coil, Acid Spray, Levitate, and higher Special Attack make absolutely sure of that. Eelektross is a Pokemon to watch out for, and with good reason.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Wild Charge / Thunderbolt
    move 2: Flamethrower
    move 3: Dragon Claw / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Grass Knot / Brick Break
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naughty / Rash
    evs: 252 Atk / 212 SpA / 44 Spe

    <p>Generally speaking, if you want to use Eelektross effectively, it's best that you try to differentiate it as much as possible from Electivire and other, faster Electric-types. While this set doesn't do this per se, it does exhibit many features that Electivire cannot equal, such as its higher Special Attack stat and access to Grass Knot. For STAB, Eelektross has two good options to choose from. Wild Charge and Thunderbolt both have about the same power on foes with roughly equal defensive stats, but Wild Charge is preferable since it will always 2HKO Blissey with Stealth Rock, whereas running Thunderbolt requires that you run Brick Break to beat it, thus limiting type coverage. Wild Bolt also gets a stronger hit on such foes as Tyranitar, and those it does not, such as Forretress, Skarmory, and Hippowdon, are usually covered by one of your coverage moves anyway. However, Thunderbolt is also very useful in its own right since it is unaffected by Intimidate, does not cause recoil damage, and means you can invest more heavily in the same stat as Eelektross's coverage moves (Flamethrower, Grass Knot, Hidden Power Ice). It also hits physically defensive Vaporeon for greater damage.</p>

    <p>In terms of your coverage attacks, Flamethrower covers Grass-types, with particular emphasis on Ferrothorn, who is an extremely great pain otherwise. It also covers Steel-types such as Scizor and Metagross, which is helpful if you are running Wild Charge. The biggest threats who resist the combination of Electric / Fire are the grounded Dragons, such a Haxorus and Hydreigon. There are two options to hit these Dragons with—Hidden Power Ice and Dragon Claw. On the one hand, Hidden Power Ice easily 2HKOes both Hydreigon and Haxorus, and also allows you to take out bulkier Dragons such as Dragonite as well as Ground-types should you lack Grass Knot. On the other hand, Dragon Claw will OHKO Hydreigon and Haxorus with Stealth Rock, but will never OHKO bulky Dragonite and other such opponents, so you should decide depending on which you feel is more threatening to your team. In the last slot, Brick Break is pretty much solely for Blissey and Chansey, who take next to nothing from everything else. It also beats down Snorlax and Tyranitar. If you're running Wild Charge, you have no need of Brick Break, so you can run an additional coverage move. Grass Knot is a good choice, as it covers all Pokemon that are immune to Electric-type moves, notably heavy Ground-types such as Hippowdon and Quagsire.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and nature are subject to change depending on what your moveset is and what you want to get out of your Eelektross. First, you should maximise your primary attacking stat. If you are running Wild Charge, you should use 252 Attack EVs and a Naughty nature, whereas if you are running Thunderbolt, you should use 252 Special Attack EVs and a Rash nature. After this, 44 Speed EVs allows Eelektross to outrun minimum Speed Blissey and other base 55s, and you can stick the remaining EVs into Eelektross's other offensive stat. Alternatively, you can choose to run a more conservative spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA with a Brave or Quiet nature, which gives you more power overall at the cost of losing out to quite a few unboosted walls—including Blissey. However, this does allow you to forgo the use of a defense-hindering nature. If you want to, you can even switch some EVs to HP in order to bulk Eelektross up a bit, as in the absence of a big Speed stat, its lack of weaknesses is one of the biggest points to capitalize on.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock and other entry hazards are very useful commodities, and help greatly in maximizing Eelektross's damage output. Deoxys-S, Ferrothorn, and Forretress are all excellent options to set up Spikes and Stealth Rock, though it is advised that you do not run two types of entry hazard on one Pokemon. Defensive complements to Eelektross are difficult to find, due to the fact that it has no weaknesses. In terms of offensive complements, Eelektross has excellent type coverage, but can come under threat from Dragon-types if not running Hidden Power Ice or Dragon Claw, especially Haxorus, who has Mold Breaker and Earthquake to bypass Levitate. Generally speaking, bulky Water-types such as Jellicent and bulky Steel-types such as Heatran are good options to take them on. Furthermore, Water-types can bait out Electric-type attacks and Steel-types can bait out Ground-type attacks, both of which Eelektross can easily switch in on—Magnezone and Heatran are especially useful partners since they can lure in Ground-type attacks for Eelektross to switch in on for free. As a bonus, many bulky Steel-types such as Metagross and Scizor have difficulty against Water- and Ground-types, whom Eelektross performs well against thanks to its Electric-type STAB and Levitate.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Acid Spray
    move 1: Acid Spray
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Acid Spray is one of the moves that Eelektross gets that other Electric-types do not, which is an immense benefit to using it. In essence, Acid Spray is a 40 Base Power Poison-type attack; however, it is for its secondary effect that it is so prized. It will always lower the opponent's Special Defense stat by two stages, essentially doubling Eelektross's Special Attack. When combined with Eelektross's wide special movepool, this makes for a very effective strategy.</p>

    <p>Thunderbolt is Eelektross's main STAB attack, and will maim just about everything it touches after an Acid Spray. Flamethrower destroys bulky Grass- and Steel-types, particularly Ferrothorn, and Grass Knot deals with Ground-types. Hidden Power Ice is a usable alternative if you are worried about losing coverage on Dragon-types, particularly Haxorus, who is a big threat to you otherwise. However, it has fairly redundant coverage with Flamethrower and Thunderbolt, and this combined with its relatively low Base Power tends to make it not worth using.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and nature maximize Eelektross's Special Attack, while also increasing its bulk with 252 HP EVs and Leftovers. Thanks to the fact that Eelektross has no weaknesses, its bulk is actually very good indeed, despite its low base stats. The remaining EVs are plunked in Special Defense in order to prevent Pokemon with Download from getting a Special Attack boost if they switch in on Eelektross, rare as they may be. Life Orb can be used over Leftovers if you want more power, but Eelektross's bulk will suffer greatly because of it.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock and Spikes support is just as, if not more important for this set than for the Mixed Attacker set, not merely because the residual damage helps Eelektross to obtain vital OHKOs and 2HKOs, but also because Acid Spray has the potential to force a lot of switches as the switch-in suddenly finds its Special Defense halved. Because of this, it is best to take advantage in any way you can. Deoxys-S does a very good job of setting up entry hazards in the lead position, and for mid-game use, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory are all excellent choices to set up Spikes, Stealth Rock, or even both. If not running Hidden Power Ice, Eelektross has great trouble with Dragon-types. Because of this, Bronzong or Skarmory can make an excellent partner, as they can both deal with most Dragon-types and also set up entry hazards. However, Skarmory has issues with Hydreigon and Bronzong has issues with Haxorus, so that will definitely have to be addressed by another Pokemon on your team. Generally speaking, any bulky Pokemon with Ice Beam, such as Suicune or Starmie, does a good job at warding them off.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Coil
    move 1: Coil
    move 2: Wild Charge
    move 3: Substitute / Brick Break
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Dragon Claw
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes a very different approach to offensive Eelektross, one which takes into account its high Attack stat, good defensive ability, and access to boosting moves. Coil is a powerful move that boosts Attack, Defense, and accuracy by one stage each, turning Eelektross into a slow-moving tank with the potential to thoroughly irritate any team that can't quite hit it hard enough.</p>

    <p>Wild Charge is Eelektross's STAB attack of choice, the fact that it is pretty much Eelektross's only worthwhile physical STAB move notwithstanding. The recoil may hurt it somewhat, but in the interests of power conservation, it is recommended that you do not try to replace it. Substitute is a move that Eelektross can make great use of, stopping your opponent from using secondary attacks—such as Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, or Leech Seed—to cripple Eelektross. In the last slot, Dragon Tail is a useful move, which is rather like Acid Spray in that it is used not for its power but for its secondary effect. It allows Eelektross to pseudo-haze other Pokemon, which is useful both for preventing Eelektross from being forced out by Whirlwind or Roar and for racking up entry hazard damage on foes such as Ferrothorn and Hippowdon. In addition, it provides almost perfect neutral coverage with Wild Charge.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If you do not like the stallish nature of this Eelektross set, you can try a more offensively-orientated spread. With a Brave nature and a spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD, Eelektross can accomplish roughly the same task, but with less defensive and more offensive power. If you do decide to take this route, you may also want to switch items and moves in order to further this goal. Life Orb is a useful substitute for Leftovers, if you want to further increase your power output. Substitute and Dragon Tail become much less useful when running an offensive spread, given Eelektross's loss of bulk, but its physical movepool is somewhat lackluster, so you have difficulty finding replacements. Dragon Claw is a more powerful alternative for Dragon Tail that doesn't have negative priority, and Crunch can be useful over Substitute in order to take down bulky Ghost- and Psychic-types. Brick Break is useful to chop through Steel-types as well as Tyranitar, though that's about the extent of its usefulness. Lastly, you may want to switch 44 EVs to Speed in order to outrun Blissey, as otherwise you may have problems with it.</p>

    <p>As always, entry hazards are a welcome commodity, and thanks to Dragon Tail, this Eelektross can make better use of them than many of its other sets by directly forcing switches. Eelektross runs into trouble against Pokemon that can beat its assaults. While Dragon Tail makes it impossible for Pokemon such as Conkeldurr and Snorlax to try to set up on Eelektross, it should be noted that Eelektross can be broken down through constant assaults, as it lacks any kind of recovery move. With that in mind, Wish support from Blissey or Vaporeon makes a welcome investment, as this allows Eelektross to stick around for longer in order to get the boosts necessary to pose a threat. Blissey can also provide paralysis support, which is very welcome as Eelektross is not exactly fast. Lastly, after all this shuffling, the best way to take advantage of this is by using a set-up sweeper to finish the job. Landorus and Terrakion are two good examples of this.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Coil
    move 1: Coil
    move 2: Thunder / Zap Cannon
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While ordinarily the most lucrative boost afforded to Coil would be that of Attack, this does not necessarily mean that Coil-based sets have to be wholly or even primarily based around physical attacks, as shown below. Eelektross is the proud owner of an excellent accuracy-boosting move and several STAB moves of high power and imperfect accuracy, making a specially-based Coil set seem attractive. By using Coil, Eelektross turns into a powerful mixed attacker capable of beating many common special walls, such as Blissey, Ferrothorn, and Jellicent, allowing it to break defensive teams and even pose an issue to certain offensive teams as well.</p>

    <p>Coil is the core move of this set, and with good reason. The biggest boon of using the move here is the accuracy boost, which makes certain STAB moves far more attractive. For example, Thunder attains 93% accuracy after one Coil boost, and perfect accuracy after two. This, combined with its high power, makes it a devastating weapon that Eelektross can use to great effect. Alternatively, if you are feeling particularly ballsy, you can try to run Zap Cannon instead, which has the same power, only half the PP, and such truly appalling accuracy that even after two uses of Coil, it only hits 83% accuracy. The only real reason to run it over Thunder is its extremely lucrative secondary effect, a 100% chance of paralysis, which is an immense help owing to Eelektross's below-par Speed. However, since you need 3 Coil boosts to hit perfect accuracy, it is rarely worth it. In the last two slots, Brick Break is absolutely necessary, as after a Coil boost it will 2HKO Blissey, Ferrothorn, and Chansey with a Life Orb boost, something few special attackers can boast. In the last slot, you will want a way to take down Ground-types and others that resist Electric-type attacks. Hidden Power Ice is usually the best option, since it has the best overall coverage alongside Thunder.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As with most of these Eelektross sets, the EV spread is incredibly straightforward. First, Special Attack is maximized, and then HP is maximized to increase Eelektross's impressive bulk. Assuming that you are using a Life Orb, Attack EVs are generally unnecessary, as the targets of Brick Break are all 2HKOed with no investment; however, if you are running Leftovers, it may be worth investing some EVs to secure the 2HKO on Ferrothorn. If you decide to do so, 148 EVs are advised as the bare minimum in order to 2HKO 252 HP Shed Shell Ferrothorn with Stealth Rock. Life Orb is, generally speaking, the superior item for this reason. However, Leftovers also has strong reasons for its choice, namely the length of time Eelektross will need to set up, and the need to make good use of its impressive bulk.</p>

    <p>As always, entry hazard support is useful to build up passive damage and help Eelektross obtain vital OHKOs and 2HKOs. Offensively speaking, this Eelektross set has little to worry about in terms of type coverage, as Thunder gets a very strong hit on most specially defensive Pokemon, and Brick Break covers most of the rest. Outside of a Pokemon such as Porygon2 or Lanturn, there is very little that is actually going to wall Eelektross, which brings us back to the original problem of hard-hitting Pokemon simply switching in to weather you down. There is very little that you can do to prevent this, but there is everything you can do to capitalize on it. After luring in faster sweepers or wallbreakers, you can deal serious damage or OHKO outright, allowing you to break the fast, frail backbone of your opponent's team. This can be very beneficial to a set-up sweeper such as Haxorus or Terrakion, who will appreciate the lack of fast Pokemon who could either revenge kill or else impede its sweep in some other way.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Eelektross has plenty of other options quite apart from the ones listed here, and there are many effective sets not listed here that you may well have success with. For example, Thunder Wave is an excellent support option that Eelektross can make great use of, particularly due to its low Speed stat. Eelektross also has access to Charge Beam, which can be used to boost its Special Attack in a vein similar to the Acid Spray set. However, the boost is not as great as the effective boost on the Acid Spray set, nor is the boost reliable to obtain, but at least it does remain after the foe has switched out. Similarly, a Choice Specs set can benefit greatly from Eelektross's high Special Attack and wide special movepool, with a moveset of Thunderbolt / Flamethrower / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Ice or Volt Switch being the obvious combination to use. Eelektross's physical movepool is somewhat more sparse, though it is still fairly cohesive, with Wild Charge, U-turn, Rock Slide, Dragon Claw, Brick Break, Crunch, and Return making up just about the entirety of it. This may be enough for a Choice Band set, though it is not recommended. Eelektross can flourish under Trick Room thanks to its low Speed stat, using some variant of the first set with minimum Speed. Lastly, Eelektross has two pseudo-hazing moves in Roar and Dragon Tail, both of which are very much usable options.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>True counters to Eelektross are few and far between thanks to the power of its type coverage, so much so that there are very few common Pokemon that can wall it in any conventional sense. One of the main exceptions is Rotom-H who, thanks to its unique Electric/Fire typing, resists all of Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Grass Knot, and Hidden Power Ice, and takes only neutral damage from Brick Break. Similarly, Lanturn is immune to Eelektross's STAB by virtue of its Volt Absorb ability and takes only minor damage from Grass Knot, as it is a very light Pokemon.</p>

    <p>In terms of more common Pokemon, those that resist Eelektross's STAB have to be mentioned. Haxorus comes right at the very top of this list, as not only does it resist Electric-, Fire-, and Grass-type attacks, making it extremely easy to switch in, but its Mold Breaker ability allows it to bypass Levitate, meaning that Eelektross is facing down a super effective Earthquake off a whopping base 147 Attack. Hydreigon, Latios, and Salamence also work similarly, but must rely on their STAB attacks to hit hard. However, they are all not perfect counters by any means, as Hidden Power Ice or Dragon Claw will do heavy damage back. Excadrill is another one to watch out for, as it is immune to Thunderbolt and easily outruns Eelektross, but Eelektross is immune to its STAB of choice and OHKOes with Flamethrower, so don't try Swords Dancing or anything foolish like that unless you're sure Eelektross won't attack back.</p>

    <p>In general, even though Eelektross has no weaknesses, it has few resistances too, so nearly anything that can hit it with a strong STAB attack will wear it down over time. Generally this is the best way to approach Eelektross—play cautiously and to resistances, so it blows itself out, rather than trying to counter it in the traditional sense.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Unfortunately, Eelektross does not get a Dream World ability. This is a disappointment, but luckily Eelektross has everything it could possibly want from its ability already, so no harm done there.</p>

    ---------------------------------

    Post-critique changes:

    - Changed EVs on Mixed Attacker set
    - Added an Acid Bomber set, credit to Bologo
    - Added Physical Coil, Mixed Coil, and Substitute + Thunder Wave sets, credit to Auraknight
    - Removed Substitute + Thunder Wave set
    - Changed to English names/new format
    - Grammar check 1, thanks to guddagudda
    - Grammar check 2, thanks to SuperCuber
    - GP Grammar-Prose check #2, thanks to Aeron Ee1
    - Removed Garchomp


    removed sets:

    Substitute + Thunder Wave (open)

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Thunder Wave
    move1: Substitute
    move2: Thunder Wave
    move3: Acid Bomb
    move4: U-turn / Volt Change
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is very different from those mentioned previously, for more reasons than one. Aside from the fact that it looks nothing like a sweeping set, the set itself is based on differentiating itself, not by enhancing its plus points, as with the other sets, but by negating its weak points, which are primarily its susceptibility to revenge kills and very low Speed stat. This is here dealt with through the combination of Substitute and Thunder Wave, which in tandem with Shibirudon's decent overall bulk allows it to act as a defensive supporter and pivot.</p>

    <p>The idea behind the set is to come in on something you frighten, such as Burungeru, and use Substitute as they switch out. From there, you can observe in safety the opponent's next move. Should they choose to bring in a fast, offensive Pokemon such as Shaymin-S or Darkrai, you can cripple them with Thunder Wave and essentially cripple them for the remainder of the match. On the other hand, against defensive threats you can Acid Spray, which after repeated uses allows you to break through those that do not resist it. Should they bring in a Ground-type such as Garchomp or Doryuuzu, against whom Shibirudon can do little, you can escape by using the move of choice in the last slot. U-turn is preferred as it works on Ground-types, leaving you not totally helpless against the merciless sandstorm sweepers, but Volt Change is always an option should you want some extra power courtesy of STAB, a boosting nature, and 252 Special Attack EVs. Having a slow move of this sort is an excellent blessing, as you are able to take an attack for your team and escape, allowing your teammate to switch in while taking no damage whatsoever.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and nature really depend entirely on what you want Shibirudon to accomplish. Maximum HP is a useful asset as always to allow Shibirudon to capitalize on its bulk, but what you do with the other 256 is up to you entirely. Here, maximizing Special Attack EVs is advised in order to shift more power to Acid Spray and potentially Volt Change, but equally you could invest the EVs in your defensive stats in order to make Shibirudon and its Substitutes better suited to taking hits, which is more useful when pivoting to sweepers or counters multiple times. Leftovers compounds this bulkiness, and again your ability should be chosen depending on whether you prefer power or durability.</p>

    <p>This Shibirudon is much more of an integrated team player than many of the other sets, since it is actually designed to support the team rather than being just your average wallbreaker or sweeper. That being said, you will still want entry hazards, as between paralysis, Acid Bomb, and U-turn, Shibirudon is likely to be forcing quite a lot of switches. The paralysis support is very helpful to slow, powerful sweepers, and the extra entry hazard damage doesn't hurt either. Furthermore, if you can use U-turn as your opponent switches in a Pokemon like Shandera, you can essentially give a free switch and a free turn to set up to your sweeper of choice. The same effect can be created with Acid Bomb, forcing the opponent out to remove the stat drop. While all this is well and good, it doesn't disguise the fact that, unlike regular Shibirudon, the set itself has its own counters. Acid Bomb is not a strong enough offensive tool against anything but those who cannot hit back, so you will have trouble with those who resist it - a base 40 non-STAB attacking move is not winning any awards alone, no matter how good its secondary effect is. Of particular concern is Doryuuzu, who is immune to both Thunder Wave and Acid Bomb and also happens to be a very dangerous threat. To deal with it and other sandstorm sweepers such as Garchomp and Tyranitar, a Skarmory or Hippowdon is advised to soak up attacks. Skarmory itself is also particularly notable for its ability to set up Spikes and Stealth Rock, which as previously mentioned is a very useful commodity.</p>
  2. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    This is done now.
  3. Great Sage

    Great Sage

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    Please review.
  4. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Sorry, should be 252 Atk / 172 SpA / 84 Spe. Fixed.
  5. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Fixed some spacing, marking as done. Good job!
  6. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    I've been testing out Shibirudon for a few days, and I find that if you really want to distinguish this thing from Electivire, try this moveset:

    name: Acid Bomber
    move1: Acid Bomb
    move2: Thunderbolt
    move3: Flamethrower
    move4: Grass Knot
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    Set Comments

    • Being one of the main moves that distinguishes it from Electivire, Acid Bomb is a great asset to Shibirudon.
    • Acid Bomb allows it to cut an opponent's Special Defense in half after each use, allowing Shibirudon to be a very good wall-breaker.
    • This set also works to abuse entry hazards by forcing switches, as very few Pokemon can take a hit from Shibirudon's wide special movepool with -2 Special Defense.
    • Although Shibirudon doesn't have amazing defenses, this set allows it to be a bulky attacker; because he has no weaknesses, very few attacks will actually OHKO it. This is yet another thing distinguishing it from Electivire.
    Additional Comments

    • EVs allow it to hit very hard after an Acid Bomb, while also retaining a lot of bulk.
    • Life Orb can be used instead of Leftovers for more damage, but the loss of bulk is quite noticeable.
    Teammates & Counters

    • Stealth Rock & Spikes support is a very good idea for this set because it not only helps Shibirudon secure some OHKOs and 2HKOs, but Acid Bomb is also very good at forcing switches, helping to rack up more entry hazard damage.
    • Bronzong is a very good teammate as well because Bronzong can not only help Shibirudon's poor Speed with Trick Room, but Shibirudon is very good at luring in Dragons, which Bronzong can counter very well.
    • One Dragon that this combination cannot counter is Ononokusu, which carries Mold Breaker and Earthquake which will hit both Shibirudon and Bronzong for super effective damage.

    Trust me, this set has much more longevity, utility, wall-breaking capability than the Mixed Attacker, which is walled just as easily as Electivire IMO. This set isn't outclassed by Electivire at all.
  7. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    Sorry to bump this, but is anyone going to comment on the Shibirudon set that I posted? I personally think it's much better than the set that's currently in the analysis, and I'd like to know if anyone else thinks it should be added.
  8. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    I'd almost debate if having a -Spe nature would be better primarily because it allows Shibirudon to keep its bulk. It should probably have Choice sets too (NOT SCARF OF COURSE).
  9. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    Apparently a Trick Room abuser is pretty good according to the UT thread, since it has U-turn to get out of there on the 5th turn of Trick Room so that no momentum is lost.

    I'm not completely sure, but I'm assuming the set is something like Thunderbolt/Flamethrower/Grass Knot/U-turn with a Quiet nature.
  10. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Apologies for not updating this, I was waiting on a friend of mine who claimed to have a very good mixed Coil set or something of the sort, which I wanted to test, before updating here. Having said that, I'd very much like to add your set to the analysis, Bologo, as it looks extremely interesting. Would you be willing to let me copy/paste what you've written into the OP, since it's pretty much a finished work there (will give credit of course)

    As far as Speed is concerned, I agree that bulk is a big factor, but I really don't like the idea of being outrun by Blissey, not to mention all the other walls like Swampert and Hippowdon. Still, it's worth mentioning.

    I'll add a Choice set in when I have time.

    As for Trick Room, I don't believe sets of that nature deserve their own set since they are essentially an IV change. I'll add it in OC.

    Thanks to all those helping.
  11. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    Yeah, go ahead and copy and paste it. xD
  12. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    FIN

    Okay, I got the sets I wanted (thanks Bologo / unnamed Pokemon expert) so I've gone ahead and written the whole thing up. One more down, only a few more to go.
  13. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    The read was good until I got to the Mixed Coil and Substitute + Thunder Wave sets -- not sure how viable and effective these are. I'll try them out as soon as I can and get back with my results. Everything else looks fine, so as for the rest of the OP you have my approval.

    QC APPROVED (1/2)
  14. panamaxis

    panamaxis Allons-y!
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    Doesn't the First set already accomplish this? I wonder in what situations I would prefer to use the Special Coil set as opposed to the first set...

    Also how come were using Acid Bomb if the primary option in the last slot is U-turn. Volt Change doesn't seem that much better since you have to switch out to hit them on their -2 Special Defense. Also what's the point in 252 Sp.Atk EVs if the only Special Move you're using is Acid Bomb?

    I'm not really fond of the last set the way it is currently. I'd probably rather have HP Ice in the third slot and Thunderbolt/Volt Change slashed in the last slot (in that order since I think having to switch out to use a decent-powered attack has less pros than cons although it's worth considering definitely). U-turn wouldn't be needed in this case since HP Ice hits the ground types anyway.

    The first 3 sets look good to me, I'll have to try out the last 2 sets and get back to you.
  15. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Isn't the first Coil set outsped by Blissey? It should probably invest enough Speed EVs such that it can Taunt before Blissey TWaves or Toxics.

    I agree with Setsuna about those last two sets... Based solely on explanation they seem a little questionable. I can see the Coil Mixer working, but I'd like to see Wild Bolt slashed over Tbolt, just in case someone should want to use that lovely Attack boost for STAB as well.
  16. AlphaSpade

    AlphaSpade

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    Question.

    Can Shibirudon even get Taunt? I don't see it on Serebii or Veekun.
  17. PhilosophicalPsychologica

    PhilosophicalPsychologica

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    Well done! ^^

    For the record...this guy doesn't get Sleep Talk. So much for RestTalk (until Sleep Talk tutor comes out in Gray version or w/e).
    Hrrrm, I suppose Thrash COULD theoretically be used with Choice Band, but even then it's iffy. We could possibly try ChestoRest + Coil, possibly even with Acrobat, but that's eating up a lot of space. After all, Shibi's defensive capabilities aren't THAT awesome.

    For the Acid Bomber set, I think there are times I just might use Thunder over Thunderbolt. It's a rather defensive set and can afford the occasional miss, as well as a pleasant boost when facing Rain teams. Additionally, with all this "Metal Sounding," there are more likely switches to lessen the pain of a miss. Finally, you're bound to net a Paralysis (three times more likely than with Thunderbolt) sooner or later, which will be madness ;D

    For the final Twave set, Sub + Twave isn't bad, but it's pretty disorganized the way you've described it.
    I'll just list the rest of my thoughts as "Other Changes" ideas:
    Bind, Flash Cannon, Gastro Acid, Light Screen, Toxic, Swagger.
    Yeah, not much special.

    ONE MORE THING: Shibi is pretty outclassed by Rotom on, dare I say it, a Rain team. However, the one thing Shibi's got is lack of a Grass weakness (as should be fairly common on a Rain team) and much, MUCH higher Attack. In fact, the only thing Rotom really seems to have over Shibi is Speed (moot in defensive sets and Thunder spam) and a STAB Hydro Pump (or Leaf Storm, or Air Slash). Run them together, for all I care.
    Any of Shibi's sets can be used on a Rain team. What is particularly notable is a perfect Thunder, possible loss of Flamethrower, and possible use of Rain Dance itself.

    And finally, Shibi's lamprey mouth looks like a wicked-out version of Heatran's mouth from the side.

    In other news, I've updated my Cynthiatheme to include this Pokemon (Flamethrower, Dragon Claw, Crunch, Wild Bolt). He runs max Attack and just enough Speed to outpace Blissey. I accept only very minor deviations from the original set (currently it is right to the original set). (rest of team includes mixed Spiritomb lead, defensive Milotic, Band Garchomp, mixed Lucario, Scarf Wargle)
  18. panamaxis

    panamaxis Allons-y!
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    Tried out the Mixed Coil set, while it's definitely not as good as the previous sets it's decent enough.

    QC Approved 2/2
  19. DFang

    DFang

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    I've been using a variation of the Mixed Coil set with a lot of success on PO.

    Quiet w/ leftovers
    252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 SpDef
    -Coil
    -Thunder
    -Flamethrower
    -Dragon Tail

    A lot of players haven't figured out it has levitate as its ability and this usually helps maim a few key pokemon. Another element of surprise is flamethrower. Even with a -speed nature, this guy still out speeds Ferrothorn and roast him before he can lay hazards or seed.

    Coil really helps by letting this take some strong physical hits and striking back with STAB accurate thunder or getting Blissey/Chansey out of there. This guy stands up great against just about any steel type and works best when you have a pokemon to lay down hazards early on. ANyone that isn't hit hard with his special attackes gets shuffled and risks entry hazard damage.

    This one is a new favorite!
  20. Tegen Toppa Raichu Lagann

    Tegen Toppa Raichu Lagann

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    This is probably my favorite analysis out of the ones I've read (and I've read quite a few). While one reason may be because of Pokemon bias (because I f-ing love this guy), you also listed a ton of different set ideas, which gives a lot of variety to choose from.

    By the way, where did you get the english name for Shibirudon? I don't think it was released, so did you make it up? I would've gone with Outlemprey, but yours is good too.
  21. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

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    There was a pseudo-confirmed leak with all the Gen V English Pokemon names within barring those of Keldeo, Meloetta, and Genosect. All entries within that list have turned out to be correct so far (in two separate batches of official entries), andmost people have found that the list generally seems too erudite for a troll to have made it. Eelektross was one such name from this leaked list. You can find it here. Note that while the list isn't technically confirmed, the list we use uses them as the official names.
  22. Kyuzeth

    Kyuzeth

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    Eelektross is the English name. It's been shown on an IGN list, which was removed, but the current English names revealed by Pokémon.com are the same as the ones on the list. So I think they are all real names.
  23. Tegen Toppa Raichu Lagann

    Tegen Toppa Raichu Lagann

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    So that's the real name? Gotta say, not really a fan of Shibirudon being called Eelectross. I think that Outlemprey would've fit him a lot better. Eelectross seems a bit too intimidating for good ol' Shibi, not to mention the fact that it sounds way too much like Electrike...

    *looks at Shibibiru's english name*

    ... You've gotta be kidding me.
  24. Cheesy333

    Cheesy333

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    MISTAKE

    'One of the main exceptions is Rotom-H, who thanks to its unique Electric/Fire typing'

    Electric/Ghost?
  25. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    No. All Rotom formes changed their Ghost typing for the type of their signature moves. Rotom-H, whose signature move is Overheat, now is an Electric/Fire.

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