Empoleon (Full Revamp) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Jukain

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I've kept this thing waiting long enough, here we go.
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Harsha's skeleton is really good and was QC approved, however it doesn't include the BW2 threats and *cough*SubPetaya*cough*Empoleon*cough*is*cough*awe some*cough*.

[Overview]

<p>Meet the bird of honor, Empoleon. It possesses the typing, stats, and movepool it needs to succeed as a special wall. For a bulky Water-type, Scald is standard fare; however, Empoleon also has access to Stealth Rock, giving it a niche among bulky Water-types. Its typing goes a long way offensively as well, making it an excellent pivot and setup sweeper. An above average Special Attack stat and powerful attacks, such as Hydro Pump and Ice Beam, give Empoleon the tools it needs to succeed on an offensive front. Unfortunately, it is slow and is outsped by common Choice Scarf users, such as Terrakion and Landorus, even after an Agility boost. Weaknesses to common Ground-, Fighting-, and Electric-type attacks do it no favors, and unlike most bulky Water-types, it takes neutral damage from Fire Blast. Despite these setbacks, Empoleon has many positive attributes, which it can abuse to become one of the great kings of the deep sea.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Surf
item: Choice Specs
ability: Torrent
nature: Modest
evs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>As previously mentioned, Empoleon has a sizable Special Attack stat that it can put to good use with a Choice Specs set. This set takes advantage of everything that Empoleon can do, and is not outclassed by other Water-type special attackers, such as Keldeo, thanks to its Steel typing and stellar defenses. On the topic of its Steel typing, it grants Empoleon numerous opportunities to switch in thanks to its many resistances. This makes Empoleon one of the best pivots around, as one can simply switch it in on any resisted attack and launch a powerful Hydro Pump. Fear not if Empoleon gets worn down, as Torrent will make it even more of a threat, boosting the power of Empoleon's STAB Water-type attacks when it is low on health. Perhaps the most notable attack that it can switch in on is Tornadus-T's Hurricane, one of the biggest and baddest attacks present in OU. Its immunity to Toxic prevents the Gastrodon and Vaporeon of the world from stalling it out, which is a huge advantage over other Water-type attackers. Additionally, Empoleon obtains lots of momentum by forcing its opposition out, which can be a deciding factor in many battles.</p>

<p>The attacks on this set are very straightforward; Hydro Pump is the powerful STAB move of choice, powering through all but the bulkiest of resists and the pink blobs, Chansey and Blissey. Its damage output is low when compared to the monstrous Keldeo, but it is still extraordinarily powerful and makes almost all Pokemon pay the price if they switch in to it. Ice Beam occupies the second moveslot and provides much-needed coverage on Dragon- and Grass-type Pokemon, especially important for the former because Empoleon makes an excellent switch-in to their primary STAB attacks. A choice of Grass-type move is then presented so that Empoleon can get past its Water-type brethren; Grass Knot hits Jellicent and Politoed harder, but Hidden Power Grass hits Rotom-W, Gastrodon, and Vaporeon harder. The choice is yours, though it should be noted that if anything besides a Water-type switches in, in most cases Grass Knot will do more damage, making it the preferred choice. Lastly, Surf is there mainly as filler, but is quite useful if you want to hit hard with a STAB move but at the same time have perfect accuracy for when it is undesirable to miss.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Since Empoleon's main claim-to-fame as a Choice Specs user is its bulk, quite a bit of EVs are dumped into its HP stat. Maximum investment in Special Attack is used to ensure that Empoleon hits as hard as it can, supplemented by a Modest nature. 56 Speed EVs allows Empoleon to outrun standard Scizor and Vaporeon. With that aside, it is immediately apparent that Ferrothorn is an issue. Hidden Power Fire is a viable option to beat Ferrothorn&mdash;however, it deals lackluster damage to anything else, which is important because most teams will have other switch-ins that take pittance from Hidden Power Fire.</p>

<p>The first piece of information that must be considered when attempting to support Empoleon is what types of teams it fits into. While it might seem like this Empoleon is best suited for bulky offense and balance teams, the reality is that it works excellently on heavy offense, providing said teams with some much-needed bulk and a handy pivot. Rain might seem extremely important, but the reality is that Empoleon already hits hard enough and increasing the amount of Pokemon weak to Thundurus-T's STAB is not desirable. This makes Deoxys-D an obvious partner, specifically suicide lead variants, as it can carry Psycho Boost, which hits one of Empoleon's premier counters, Tentacruel, hard. The entry hazards that Deoxys-D sets up are invaluable because of the many switches that Choice Specs-boosted STAB Hydro Pump forces. Empoleon makes an excellent member of a Fire-Water-Grass core, specifically one with Heatran and Celebi, as they boast amazing type synergy together. Heatran roasts Ferrothorn, a roadblock for Empoleon, can set up Stealth Rock, and beats specially defensive Jirachi. Celebi beats bulky Water-types, another roadblock to Empoleon, which are troublesome despite the fact that it carries a Grass-type attack. It also provides a decent switch-in to Thundurus-T and resists Ground-type attacks. Another option over Celebi is Roserade, which sets up Toxic Spikes that Empoleon can utilize to defeat Blissey and Chansey thanks to its immunity to Toxic. However, Roserade cannot switch in on Fighting- and Ground-type attacks, so Celebi is usually the superior choice. If not running Heatran or another Fire-type, a trapper, such as Magnezone or Gothitelle, or a lure, such as Expert Belt Salamence, is recommended to get rid of Ferrothorn. A fast Wish passer, such as Latias, can be used if wanted to heal off some of the damage that Empoleon takes from switching into entry hazards and resisted attacks repeatedly. Lastly—and bear with me on this—it is an excellent abuser of Gravity, possessing the bulk, power, and resistances central to the strategy's success and benefiting by gaining a perfectly accurate Hydro Pump.</p>

[SET]
name: SubPetaya
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Agility
move 3: Surf
move 4: Ice Beam / Grass Knot
item: Petaya Berry
ability: Torrent
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 240 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Nostalgia fans, meet DPP Empoleon, BW style. It's barely changed since last generation, with the same playstyle and the same potential devastation that it can cause if played correctly. History aside, this set has a very straightforward setup process: switch in on one of Empoleon's numerous resistances, set up three Substitutes and obtain a +1 boost courtesy of its Petaya Berry, set up an Agility at some point during this time, and proceed to smash apart its opposition. By the end of this process, it hits like a nuke and outspeeds +1 Dragonite. In short, over the course of a relatively simple 4 to 5 turns, Empoleon is ready to go.</p>

<p>The attacks on this set are relatively simple—Surf is powerful enough after a Petaya Berry boost and rain, and one Hydro Pump miss could doom Empoleon because of the low amount of health required to activate its item. Additionally, it will be Torrent-boosted as well in Petaya Berry range, so rest assured Surf hits more than hard enough. The choice of coverage move mainly depends on what Empoleon's teammates can KO; Ice Beam hits Dragon- and Grass-types super effectively, such as Dragonite, Celebi, Latios, Latias, and Venusaur, and hits Toxicroak for neutral damage. Alternatively, Grass Knot can be used to hit Jellicent, Gyarados, Kingdra, Politoed, and Gastrodon hard, but outside of those immune to Surf, Surf does more than enough damage in rain, rendering Grass Knot an inferior option. For an exact Base Power, resisted Surf in rain with a Torrent boost has 160 Base Power, which is more than adequate to hit these Pokemon.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The given EVs may seem complex, but they serve a purpose. 12 HP EVs makes Empoleon's HP stat divisible by 4, which means that it will only take 3 Substitutes from full health to activate Petaya Berry. 240 Speed EVs are enough to outrun +1 Jolly Gyarados, as however rare it may be, there is no use moving what would amount to 4 EVs elsewhere. Maximum investment in Special Attack ensures the largest possible damage output. A Modest nature is preferred to supplement this power, but Timid is equally viable—it allows Empoleon to outspeed Choice Scarf Rotom-W, Choice Scarf Haxorus, Choice Scarf Genesect, and Choice Scarf Salamence after an Agility boost, which is important because all of them could otherwise stomp all over Empoleon.</p>

<p>On the topic of moves, Hydro Pump is a viable alternative to Surf, hitting significantly harder, but it gains few notable KOs and has an unreliable 80% accuracy, and at the low range of health that Empoleon must be at to activate Petaya Berry, a miss could be the difference between an Empoleon sweep and a dead Empoleon. Hidden Power Grass might seem optimal to hit Keldeo, Rotom-W, Gastrodon, and Vaporeon harder, but in all honesty, as the former two are hit hard enough by rain-boosted Surf, it only really matters for the latter two, and Grass Knot does more damage to Jellicent, who is more common than Gastrodon and especially Vaporeon. An alternative item could be Salac Berry, which allows Empoleon to outspeed Choice Scarf Keldeo, Choice Scarf Terrakion, Choice Scarf Thundurus-T, Choice Scarf Genesect, and Choice Scarf Landorus. The lack of power can be remedied by a Pokemon to Baton Pass it Special Attack boosts, such as Mew or Celebi.</p>

<p>While not completely necessary, rain from Politoed is extraordinarily helpful, allowing Empoleon to achieve many KOs that could make or break its sweep. Despite this set's massive power set up, Pokemon with the ability Sturdy or that hold a Focus Sash spell doom for it. As you obviously want Empoleon to sweep unhindered, Deoxys-D, Ferrothorn, or Forretress is recommended to set up entry hazards. Additionally, Tentacruel or Roserade can set up Toxic Spikes, which are helpful to break through bulky Water-types if running Ice Beam and to stall out Blissey and Chansey. Whatever coverage move is chosen obviously leaves Empoleon open to something. If running Ice Beam, a Pokemon that can defeat bulky Water-types, such as Celebi or Thundurus-T, is needed. If running Grass Knot, a Pokemon such as Mamoswine or Choice Scarf Salamence is needed to defeat Dragon- and Grass-types. There are two more partners that should be considered. The first is the often overlooked Weavile, who has the unique ability of being able to both remove opposing Grass- and Dragon-types and trap Latios, Latias, Jellicent, and Celebi, which is quite useful for Empoleon. The second is Gothitelle, as its trapping abilities are extremely helpful. It can trap and kill Celebi if it runs Signal Beam, Ferrothorn if it runs Hidden Power Fire, Breloom with its STAB Psychic-type attack, and Blissey and Chansey with Psyshock. Additionally, its STAB hits Poison-types super effectively, most importantly the grounded ones that can absorb the beneficial Toxic Spikes. Gothitelle can have its moveset put together for any and all of your trapping needs, and with the right moveset is a huge benefactor in an Empoleon sweep.</p>

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Scald
move 3: Toxic / Roar
move 4: Protect / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Torrent
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Empoleon's other sets are based on showcasing its offensive capabilities, this set takes advantage of its excellent defensive typing to make a solid special wall. Empoleon's unique Steel typing among bulky Water-types gives it the capacity to switch into powerful special attacks such as Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump, Hurricane, and Blizzard. It should be specifically mentioned how amazing of a switch-in it is for Tornadus-T's Hurricane, taking pittance from an attack that blows numerous OU Pokemon off the map. Its typing also gives it resistances to both of Scizor's STAB moves, making it an excellent check to the infernal metal bug. Unlike its bulky Water-type brethren, it is immune to Toxic, the bane of Gastrodon and Jellicent.</p>

<p>Scald is an incredibly useful tool for Empoleon, giving it the ability to take on strong physical attackers due to its high burn chance. Thanks to STAB, it prevents frail sweepers, such as Gengar and Alakazam, from taking their sweet time to set up on Empoleon. Protect enables Empoleon to scout for super effective attacks, such as Choice Scarf Rotom-W's Volt Switch and Tornadus-T's Superpower, as well as providing an extra turn of Leftovers recovery, which helps compensate for its lack of reliable recovery, and racking up Toxic damage. Speaking of Toxic, it allows Empoleon to beat opposing bulky Water-types and wears down Life Orb sweepers, especially when combined with sandstorm damage, very quickly. It is also a huge help against Substitute + Calm Mind Latias. Alternatively, Roar can be used to prevent Calm Mind Reuniclus and Latias from using Empoleon as setup fodder, while also spreading entry hazard damage. Ice Beam is a viable option over Protect to aid in the defeat of Dragonite and Salamence, both having their primary STAB resisted by Empoleon. Last up is the ace in the hole, Stealth Rock. Give me one bulky Water-type that has Stealth Rock. If you can name one, I can guarantee that it has no place on that Pokemon's moveset. With Empoleon, this is not the case, as it is not cramped for moveslots and has numerous opportunities to set up Stealth Rock.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are simple—to start off, 248 HP EVs ensure that Empoleon takes minimal damage from Stealth Rock and Leech Seed. The Defense EVs are invested so that Empoleon can better handle Dragon Dance Dragonite and Salamence, while the remaining EVs are placed in Special Defense to bolster Empoleon's ability to handle special attackers. Some EVs that are invested into the defenses can be moved to Speed for Scizor, Skarmory, Tyranitar, and Jellicent. A Grass-type attack might be desired to hit opposing Water-types because of the ease with which Empoleon switches into them, with Grass Knot being mostly superior but Hidden Power Grass hitting Rotom-W, Keldeo, and Gastrodon harder. However, Toxic is more effective in the long run, as Jellicent and Gastrodon have reliable recovery to heal off any damage taken from Grass Knot or Hidden Power Grass. Yawn is an alternative to Roar for a sort of phazing move, and is deadly with BW's sleep mechanics. On the other hand, Substitute users, such as Dragonite and Latias, cannot be beaten with Yawn, thus Roar is preferred.</p>

<p>Due to its weaknesses to common physical attacks and lack of much investment in Defense, a partner that can take them is needed. Gliscor in particular stands out, boasting perfect type synergy with Empoleon and benefiting from the burns that Empoleon spreads to handle physical attackers even better. Due to its lack of reliable recovery, a Wish passer is useful. Xatu is a good candidate, having excellent type synergy outside of their shared weakness to Electric-type attacks. Lastly, something to sponge special Electric- and Fighting-type attacks, such as Thunder, Secret Sword, and Focus Blast, is needed. Good choices for the job include Celebi and Latias.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>When wielding a Choice Scarf, Empoleon outspeeds all of unboosted OU below Starmie, but it is straight up outclassed by Keldeo and is pretty weak as well. A Swords Dance set is possible, with attacks such as Earthquake, Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Drill Peck, Return, and Avalanche being viable offensive options; however, base 86 Attack is disappointing and Empoleon cannot break through physical walls without rain and heavy entry hazard support. Gyarados and Feraligatr outclass it, making it even less desirable. Rain Dance could see use to support a rain team and to become a more self-sufficient sweeper, but the loss of valuable coverage or a setup move makes it difficult to find room for. Blizzard should be used over Ice Beam if you have hail support. Defiant, Empoleon's Dream World ability, might seem viable, but in reality Empoleon's inability to use its mediocre Attack stat well makes it inferior to Torrent, which provides a more useful boost to Empoleon's primary STAB. Flash Cannon should be mentioned in passing, as while it is a STAB move it lacks any additional coverage. Wrapping up, an Agility + 3 attacks set is very viable for the extra coverage move, and although it lacks protection from priority and a power boost, this is made up for by the ability to handle a wider variety of threats.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>While it is very threatening, Empoleon does have its hard counters. Ferrothorn is the best one, as although boosted Ice Beams do a decent amount, even SubPetaya will not win, as Leech Seed can catch it off guard while it sets up Agility and Power Whip breaks its Substitutes. Blissey and Chansey, have extraordinary special bulk that allows them to check offensive sets, but their vulnerability to Toxic makes them unreliable against defensive variants and SubPetaya with Toxic Spikes support. Rotom-W is a decent answer to Empoleon, resisting its STAB, Ice Beam, and taking little damage from Grass Knot due to its low weight, but it must be wary of Hidden Power Grass. It can retaliate with STAB Volt Switch or Thunderbolt. Bulky Water-types in general do well against offensive variants of Empoleon, though Empoleon's immunity to Toxic means that only those running super effective attacks, such as Hidden Power Electric Vaporeon, can actually kill it; otherwise they must rely on the slow, painful process of wearing it down with burns from Scald. However, depending on Empoleon's choice of Grass-type move, they might be taken down as well.</p>

<p>Moving on from the more reliable responses to Empoleon, there are quite a few ways to check it. Trappers, more specifically Dugtrio and Magnezone, outspeed, make Empoleon unable to switch out, and have super effective STAB moves which they can utilize to KO it. However, they cannot switch into Empoleon's STAB and are non-issues with an Agility boost. Thundurus-T can only switch in on Grass Knot or Hidden Power Grass, but its powerful STAB Thunder in rain fries Empoleon so completely that it turns back into a Piplup, with Modest Empoleon being unable to outspeed Choice Scarf variants at +2. Genesect is similar, and without a Timid nature Choice Scarf variants will still outspeed, allowing it to hit back hard with a super effective Thunderbolt or Thunder. Lastly, Technician Breloom's Mach Punch is an excellent check, as Breloom resists Empoleon's STAB and can use Bullet Seed on a predicted Substitute, as well as completely walling SubPetaya variants lacking Ice Beam. Generally, the best way to beat Empoleon is to exploit its low Speed stat and rather unfortunate set of weaknesses, and stopping its momentum will condemn it to the sea, unable to rise ever again.</p>
 

ginganinja

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Ima boss Empoleon User so weighing in.

Firstly, give Timid Nature a slash on Sub Petaya, because outrunning Scarf Rotom W, Scarf Hax, and like, Adamant Scarf Mence I think make it very worthwhile.

Second, I want IB slashed with GK, its good enough for a slash imo, because hitting Latios / Latias / Hydriegon / Dragonite / Celebi is pretty darn neat. Personally, I always run HP Grass over GK due to it hitting Keldeo / Rotom W / Vaporeon hard, but I guess hitting Jellicent harder might be good too. At least MENTION HP Grass somewhere, its worth discussion, and it was good when I tested it.

Mention Toxic Spikes / Toxic support and Gothitelle for Sub Pet. Gothitelle can remove Celebi with a Signal Beam, and if you trap and kill / cripple Tentacruel, you have an easier time at setting up Toxic Spikes. Toxic Spikes is good for shit like Jellicent / Gastrodon / Blissey / Chansey and stuff if you run Ice Beam, so its good to note that down I guess.

Substitute can be used over Agility on an offensive set to protect Empoleon from revenge killers
Get rid of this

Also, I might be alone in this, but in my testing, I found Salac Berry a nice alternative on Empoleon. Sure, I lost out on some Power (which ironically I didn't care so much as I had mew to BP it a NP), but the ability to outspeed Scarf Terrakion, Landorus, and Thundurus-T was really, really useful, and I think it deserves an AC mention at least.

Lastly, Mention Agility + 3 Attacks somewhere (even OO, I don't care), since there are times when the extra coverage move is very useful. Its what I ran in BW (before Pet was released), and I gave it a test in BW2, not much has hampered its effectiveness so should be mentioned somewhere thanks.

I think thats most of it.
 

Jukain

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done, and I've heard that defensive is shit so it is now second set, pending QC approval/deletion.
 

jc104

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I would like Ice Beam to be the primary slash and Grass Knot (not HP Grass) to be the second. Here's why:

Base power of NVE Torrent OR rain boosted Surf: 95*1.5*1.5 / 2 = 107
NVE Torrent AND rain boosted Surf: 95*1.5*1.5*1.5 / 2 = 160
NVE Torrent OR rain boosted Hydro Pump: 120*1.5*1.5 / 2 = 135
NVE Torrent AND rain boosted Hydro Pump: 120*1.5*1.5*1.5 /2 = 203
2x super effective HP Grass: 70 * 2 = 140

Based on that, I hope you can see that the only real targets of HP Grass would be pokemon immune to water, largely Gastrodon and Jellicent. HP Grass might be slightly better against Gastrodon (and less relevant targets like Keldeo and Vaporeon) but GK hits Jellicent a LOT harder. It also does quite a lot to Gyarados and Kingdra.

Ice Beam, on the other hand, actually covers a bunch of pokemon really well, outdamaging surf against most grass and dragon-types regardless of the conditions. Dragonite, Salamence, Celebi, Latios, Latias, Venusaur, and Virizion, to name a few as well as hitting Toxicroak for at least something.

You should also add weavile to teammates. I know it's not a great pokemon but the combination of trapping celebi/jellicent/latios/latias and beating other grass-and dragon-types is rare and extremely useful for Empoleon.
 
Any reason for the lack of a Choice Specs set? Empoleon's bulky Choice Specs set was one of my favorite sets to use in BW1. It now faces some competition from Keldeo, but there are a number of reasons why it can be used over it. Most importantly, Specs Empoleon is very easy to switch in with a nifty Steel-typing and good bulk, so it can get a large number of good hits of during a match. I often used it on Sand teams because it was immune to Sandstorm and provided a decent check to certain threats such as Tornadus. Lastly, it has access to a stronger Ice-move.
 

Jukain

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hmm I'm not sure about that if you could elaborate on partners and what the set should look like I'll consider it, it will be in OO for now

EDIT: and by that I mean a big OO mention convince me if you think it needs more than that
 

shrang

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Just saying:

- If it doesn't have an Air Balloon, Dugtrio traps, outspeeds, and OHKOes every varaint of Empoleon, even if Empoleon has a Choice Scarf
- Magnezone also traps, outspeeds and ko Empoleon with powerful, super effective STAB Electric-type attacks
Neither Magnezone or Dugtrio if Empoleon is at +2. Also Empoleon has the same base Speed as Magnezone, so you'd have to factor in speed creeping.
 

Pocket

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Some thoughts

~ You can emphasize its defensive typing, but don't oversell its special bulk, since it's HP is rather mediocre while its special defense is only decent. Jirachi is still more bulkier than Empoleon for instance.

~ Defensive Set: Empoleon can tank special hits, but it would appreciate a Pokemon that can sponge special Electric and Fighting moves, including STAB Thunder, Secret Sword, and Focus Blasts. Good candidates would be Celebi and Latias.

~ Add TechLoom in Checks and Counters.

- When Empoleon is weilding a Choice Scarf it can outspeed everything in OU bar Dugtrio, Starmie and Alakazam, although it's pretty weak
Mention Tornadus-T

Thanks for picking this up, pokemon0078!

QC Approved (2/3)
 
When mentioning Gothitelle, I would put emphasis on how it can get rid of Breloom, one of the few mons whose priority attack can put a stop to Empoleon's sweep. Goth can also get rid of grounded Poison mons that absorb the extremely helpful Toxic Spikes.
 

Jukain

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okay here's my update:

sapphsabre777 said:
As Pillsbury stated, where is a Choice set? It helps with coverage against some Pokemon.
I had a discussion with Pocket on irc about this. He suggested that I coerced me into because of his project co-leader ways test out Specs Empoleon for the Dark Horse project and see how I do. damn it I had decided not to participate Pocket is a time thief

This is what I will be testing after our conversation:

slashes are in no particular order; just things to test and see what's better.

name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Surf
item: Choice Specs
ability: Torrent
nature: Modest
evs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 52 Spe

to-do list
_ _ test both moves in the third slot: 15 battles each grass knot gets the nod in the third slot, hitting jellicent hard is more important to this set than rotom-w, however hp grass still deserves a class for it and gastrodon.
_ _ test hydro pump + surf, hydro pump + hp fire, surf + hp fire: 10 battles each hp fire was super useless all the time, maybe it's just because i was using it with heatran and hp fire celebi, but it was so useless. surf on the other hand didn't get used very much but was nice for torn-t and thund-t when i couldn't afford to miss.
_ _ test on sand and rain: 15 battles each sand I tried, it is totally useless and just restricts teambuilding. Currently testing it on Deoxys-D HO which I think is going to work out really well to have a Tornadus-T switch-in. rain might seem appealing but was so fucking useless.

everything will be incorporated together for a total of 30 battles of testing, that should be more than adequate. i found out stuff really quickly and it turned out to be way less than that

notes (as I go along, there are also a few to start):
- speed evs are for 8 spe scizor, this thing is heavily outclassed by keldeo if not running bulk
- advantages over keldeo: steel typing, great pivot, stronger ice-type attack, torrent
- great switch-in to tornadus-t's hurricane
- hydro pump is more powerful, surf is for accuracy
- ice beam is key for dragon- and grass-types
- gk hits jellicent harder, hp grass hits rotom-w and gastro harder
- surf is an auxiliary stab for when you cannot afford to miss.
- amazing pivot, switch it in on one of its numerous resistances and launch a powerful hydro pump. it really is a great pivot.
- it would seem best for bulky offense/balance, but in reality it is AMAZING on ho and in more offensive fwg cores.
- celebi beats water-types and heatran beats steel-types, a combination of the three makes an amazing offensive fwg core. heatran can even setup sr.
- this thing surprisingly gets momentum really well
- use it, its amazing
- hazards are helpful because of the chaos this thing causes, deoxys-d gets them up early. suicide lead deoxys-d for the win!
- you might want a fast wish passer like latias, it gets worn down from having to switch in on attacks often.
- immunity to toxic is awesome for free switch-ins
- rain seems really really helpful, right? well it's nice but you don't need it, the compounding of electric weaknesses is a downside from having to use politoed blows.
- don't burn me at the stake, this thing is really good on gravity teams. hydro pump becomes 100% accurate which is really really really really awesome.
- something to switch in on thundurus-t is pretty much required, celebi is EXCELLENT and so is roserade i suppose.
- something to beat steel-types like Magnezone or Gothitelle if you want to go a trapping route or Heatran works well too if you don't feel a need to trap them, it also beats sdef rachi which is helpful.
- bulky water-types are a bitch even with gk, toxic spikes from roserade (synergizes way better than tenta) or an offensive grass-type like celebi is the way to go.
- you really do require minimal support, all teams need a way to beat steels and bulky water-types anyway
- hp fire is tempting to beat steel-types, however it does lackluster damage to everything else and empoleon has a multitude of switch-ins that are not steel-type.

a++ set, i was surprised in a pleasant way, putting it first

anyway on to bkc:

bkc said:
When mentioning Gothitelle, I would put emphasis on how it can get rid of Breloom, one of the few mons whose priority attack can put a stop to Empoleon's sweep. Goth can also get rid of grounded Poison mons that absorb the extremely helpful Toxic Spikes.
Good point, I will add that in. Thanks!

That's my update for now. I will note whenever I update this post.

PillsburyDoughBoy es inteligente y la comida.

That will be all.

EDIT: overview and choice specs are written, by god i didn't think specs would be that long. oh well.

EDIT2: subpetaya is (finally) written, surprised at how much i can ramble without... rambling.

EDIT3: specially defensive is written, that wasn't so bad! i'm on the home stretch!!!

EDIT4: oo was fairly short, last section now!!!
 

Jukain

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its written up and ready for gp checks, woot second-longest analysis next to behemoth Dragonite!!!

holy fuck that took forever fsr
 
Managed to get this done anyway. Amateur check.

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[Overview]

<p>Meet the bird of honor, Empoleon. It possesses all of the typing, stats, and movepool it needs to succeed as a special wall. For a bulky Water-type, Scald is standard fare; however, Empoleon also has access to Stealth Rock, giving it a niche among bulky Water-types. One might think that this makes Empoleon destined to be yet another bulky Water-type, but this is simply not the case. Its typing goes a long way offensively as well, making it an excellent pivot and setup sweeper. An above-average Special Attack stat and powerful attacks, such as Hydro Pump and Ice Beam, give Empoleon the tools it needs to succeed on an offensive front. All is not sunshine and daisies for Empoleon, however: quite the contrary to be frank. It is slow and is outsped by common Choice Scarf users, such as Terrakion and Landorus, even after an Agility boost. Weaknesses to the common Ground-, Fighting-, and Electric-type attacks do it no favors, and unlike most bulky Water-types, it takes neutral damage from Fire Blast. Despite these setbacks, Empoleon has many positive attributes that it possesses which it can abuse to become one of the great kings of the deep sea.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Surf
item: Choice Specs
ability: Torrent
nature: Modest
evs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>As previously mentioned, Empoleon has a sizable Special Attack stat that it can put to good use with a Choice Specs set. This set takes advantage of everything that Empoleon can do, and is not outclassed by other Water-type special attackers, such as Keldeo, because of thanks to its Steel typing and stellar defenses. On the topic of its Steel typing, it grants Empoleon numerous opportunities to switch in thanks to its many resistances. This makes Empoleon one of the best pivots around, as one can simply switch it in on any resisted attack and launch a powerful Hydro Pump. Fear not if Empoleon gets worn down, as Torrent will make it even more of a threat, boosting the power of Empoleon's STAB Water-type attacks when it is low on health. Perhaps the most notable of the attacks that it can switch in on is Tornadus-T's Hurricane, one of the biggest and baddest attacks present in OU. Its immunity to Toxic prevents the Gastrodons and Vaporeons of the world from stalling it out, which is a huge advantage over other Water-type attackers. Additionally, Empoleon obtains lots of momentum by forcing its opposition out, which can be a deciding factor in many battles.</p>

<p>The attacks on this set are very straightforward; Hydro Pump is the powerful STAB move of choice, powering through all but the bulkiest of resists and the pink blobs. Its damage output is low when compared to the monstrous Keldeo, but it is still extraordinarily powerful and makes almost all Pokemon pay the price if they switch in to it. Ice Beam occupies the second moveslot and provides much-needed coverage on Dragon- and Grass-type Pokemon, especially important for the former because Empoleon makes an excellent switch-in to their primary STAB attacks. A choice of Grass-type move is then presented so that Empoleon can get past its Water-type brethen; Grass Knot hits Jellicent and Politoed harder, but Hidden Power Grass hits Rotom-W, Gastrodon, and Vaporeon harder. The choice is yours, though it should be noted that if anything besides a Water-type switches in, in most cases Grass Knot will do more damage, making it the preferred choice. Lastly, Surf is there mainly as filler, but is quite useful if you want to hit hard with a STAB move but at the same time have perfect accuracy for when it is undesirable to miss.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Since Empoleon's main claim-to-fame as a Choice Specs user is its bulk, quite a bit of EVs are dumped into its HP stat. Maximum investment in Special Attack is used to ensure that Empoleon hits as hard as it can, supplemented by a Modest nature. 56 Speed EVs allows Empoleon to outrun 8 Speed Scizor. With that aside, it is immediately apparent that Ferrothorn is an issue. Hidden Power Fire is a viable option to beat Ferrothorn—however, it deals lackluster damage to anything not named Ferrothorn else, which is important because most teams will have other switch-ins that take pittance from Hidden Power Fire.</p>

<p>The first piece of information that must be considered when attempting to support Empoleon is what types of teams it fits into. While it might seem like this Empoleon is best suited for bulky offense and balance teams, the reality is that it works excellently on heavy offense, providing said teams with some much-needed bulk and a handy pivot. Rain might seem extremely important, but the reality is that Empoleon already hits hard enough and increasing the amount of Pokemon weak to Thundurus-T's STAB is not desirable. Anyway, tThis makes Deoxys-D an obvious partner, specifically suicide lead variants, as it might carry Psycho Boost, which hits one of Empoleon's premier counters, Tentacruel, hard. The entry hazards that it Deoxys-D sets up are invaluable because of the many switches that Choice Specs-boosted STAB Hydro Pump forces. Empoleon makes an excellent member of a Fire-Water-Grass core, specifically one with Heatran and Celebi, as they boasting amazing type synergy together. Heatran roasts Ferrothorn, a roadblock for Empoleon, and can set up Stealth Rock, and beats specially defensive Jirachi. Celebi beats bulky Water-types, another roadblock to Empoleon, which are troublesome despite the fact that it carries a Grass-type attack. It also provides a decent switch-in to Thundurus-T and resists Ground-type attacks. Another option over Celebi is Roserade, which sets up Toxic Spikes that Empoleon can abuse to defeat Blissey and Chansey thanks to its immunity to Toxic. However, Roserade cannot switch in on Fighting- and Ground-type attacks, so Celebi is usually the superior choice. If not running Heatran or another Fire-type, a trapper, such as Magnezone or Gothitelle, or a lure, such as Expert Belt Salamence, is recommended to get rid of Ferrothorn, or a lure, such as Expert Belt Salamence. A fast Wish passer, such as Latias, can be used if wanted to heal off some of the damage that Empoleon takes from switching into entry hazards and resisted attacks repeatedly. Lastly,&mdash;and bear with me on this&mdash;it is an excellent abuser of Gravity, possessing the bulk, power, and resistances central to the strategy's success and benefiting by gaining a perfectly accurate Hydro Pump.</p>

[SET]
name: SubPetaya
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Agility
move 3: Surf
move 4: Ice Beam / Grass Knot
item: Petaya Berry
ability: Torrent
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 240 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Nostalgia fans, meet DP Empoleon, BW style. It's barely changed since last generation, with the same playstyle and the same potential devastation that it can cause if played correctly. History aside, this set has a very straightforward setup process: switch in on one of Empoleon's numerous resistances, set up three Substitutes and obtain a +1 boost courtesy of its Petaya Berry, set up an Agility at some point during this time, and proceed to smash apart its opposition. By the end of this process, it hits like a nuke and is fast enough to outspeeds +1 Dragonite. In short, over the course of a relatively simple 4 to 5 turns, Empoleon is ready to go.</p>

<p>The attacks on this set are relatively simple—Surf is powerful enough after a Petaya Berry boost and rain, and one Hydro Pump miss could doom Empoleon because of the low amount of health required to activate its item. Additionally, it will be Torrent boosted as well in Petaya Berry range, so rest assured Surf hits more than hard enough. The choice of coverage move mainly depends on what its Empoleon's teammates can kill; Ice Beam hits Dragon- and Grass-types super effectively, such as Dragonite, Celebi, Latios, Latias, and Venusaur, and hits Toxicroak for neutral damage. Alternatively, Grass Knot can be used to hit Jellicent, Gyarados, Kingdra, Politoed, and Gastrodon hard, but outside of those immune to Surf, Surf does more than enough damage in rain, rendering Grass Knot an inferior option in rain. For an exact Base Power, resisted Surf in rain with a Torrent boost has 160 Base Power, which is more than adequate to hit these Pokemon.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The given EVs may seem complex, but they serve a purpose. 12 HP EVs makes Empoleon's HP stat divisible by 4, which means that it will only take 3 Substitutes from full health to activate Petaya Berry. 240 Speed EVs are enough to outrun +1 Jolly Gyarados, as however rare it may be, there is no use moving what would amount to 4 EVs elsewhere. Maximum investment in Special Attack ensures the largest possible damage output. A Modest nature is preferred to supplement this power, but Timid is equally viable—it allows Empoleon to outspeed Choice Scarf Rotom-W, Choice Scarf Haxorus, Choice Scarf Genesect, and Choice Scarf Salamence after an Agility boost, which is important because all of them could otherwise stomp all over Empoleon.</p>

<p>On the topic of moves, Hydro Pump is a viable alternative to Surf, hitting a significantly amount harder, but it gains few notable KOs and has an unreliable 80% accuracy, and at the low range of health that Empoleon must be at to activate Petaya Berry, a miss could be the difference between an Empoleon sweep and a dead Empoleon. Hidden Power Grass might seem optimal to hit Keldeo, Rotom-W, Gastrodon, and Vaporeon harder, but in all honesty, as the former two are hit hard enough by rain-boosted Surf, it only really matters for the latter two, and Grass Knot does more damage to Jellicent, who is more common than Gastrodon and especially Vaporeon. An alternative for its item could be Salac Berry, which allows Empoleon to outspeed Choice Scarf Keldeo, Choice Scarf Terrakion, Choice Scarf Thundurus-T, Choice Scarf Genesect, and Choice Scarf Landorus. The lack of power can be remedied by a Pokemon to Baton Pass it Special Attack boosts, such as Mew or Celebi.</p>

<p>While not completely necessary, rain from Politoed is extraordinarily helpful, allowing Empoleon to achieve many KOs that could make or break its sweep. Despite this set's massive power once set space up, Pokemon with the ability Sturdy or that hold a Focus Sash spell doom for it. As you obviously want Empoleon to sweep unhindered, Deoxys-D, Ferrothorn, or Forretress, is are recommended to set up entry hazards. Additionally, Tentacruel or Roserade can set up Toxic Spikes, which is are helpful to break through bulky Water-types if running Ice Beam and to stall out Blissey and Chansey. Whatever coverage move is chosen obviously leaves Empoleon open to something. If running Ice Beam, a Pokemon that can defeat bulky Water-types, such as Celebi or Thundurus-T, is needed. If running Grass Knot, a Pokemon like Mamoswine or Choice Scarf Salamence is needed to defeat Dragon- and Grass-types. There are two more partners that should be considered. The first is the often-overlooked Weavile, who has the unique ability of being able to both remove opposing Grass- and Dragon-types and trap Latios, Latias, Jellicent, and Celebi, which is quite useful for Empoleon. The second is Gothitelle, as its trapping abilities are also extremely helpful. It can trap and kill Celebi if it runs Signal Beam, Ferrothorn if it runs Hidden Power Fire, Breloom with its STAB Psychic-type attack, and Blissey and Chansey with Psyshock. Additionally, its STAB hits Poison-types super effectively, most importantly the grounded ones that can absorb the beneficial Toxic Spikes. Gothitelle can have its moveset put together for any and all of your trapping needs, and with the right moveset is a huge benefactor in an Empoleon sweep.</p>

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Scald
move 3: Toxic / Roar
move 4: Protect / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Torrent
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Empoleon's other sets are based on showcasing its offenisve capabilities, this set takes advantage of its excellent defensive typing to make a solid special wall. Empoleon's unique Steel typing among bulky Water-types gives it the capacity to switch into powerful special attacks, such as Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump, Hurricane, and Blizzard. It should be specifically mentioned how amazing of a switch-in it is for Tornadus-T's Hurricane, taking pittance from an attack that blows numerous OU Pokemon off the map. Its typing also gives it resistances to both of Scizor's STAB moves, making it an excellent check to the infernal metal bug. Unlike its bulky Water-type brethren, it is immune to Toxic, the bane of Gastrodons and Jellicents everywhere.</p>

<p>Scald is an incredibly useful tool for Empoleon, giving it the ability to take on strong physical attackers due to its high burn chance. Thanks to STAB, it prevents frail sweepers, such as Gengar and Alakazam, from taking their sweet time to set up on Empoleon. Protect enables Empoleon to scout for super effective attacks, such as Choice Scarf Rotom-W's Volt Switch and Tornadus-T's Superpower, as well as providing an extra turn of Leftovers recovery, which helps compensate for its lack of reliable recovery, and racking up Toxic damage. Speaking of Toxic, it allows Empoleon to beat opposing bulky Water-types and wears down Life Orb sweepers, especially when combined with sandstorm damage, very quickly. It is also a huge help against Substitute + Calm Mind Latias. Alternatively, Roar can be used to prevent Calm Mind Reuniclus and Latias from using Empoleon as setup fodder, while also spreading entry hazard damage. Ice Beam is a viable option over Protect to aid in the defeat of Dragonite and Salamence, both having their primary STAB resisted by Empoleon. Last up is the ace in the hole, Stealth Rock. Give me one bulky Water-type that has Stealth Rock. If you can name one, I can guarantee that it has no place on that Pokemon's moveset. With Empoleon, this is not the case, as it is not cramped for moveslots and has numerous opportunities to set up Stealth Rock.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are simple—to start off, 248 HP EVs in HP ensure that Empoleon takes minimal damage from Stealth Rock and Leech Seed. The Defense EVs are invested so that Empoleon can better handle Dragon Dance Dragonite and Salamence, while the remaining EVs are placed in Special Defense to bolster Empoleon's ability to handle special attackers. Some EVs that are invested into the defenses can be moved to Speed for Scizor, Skarmory, Tyranitar, and Jellicent. A Grass-type attack might be desired to hit opposing Water-types because of the ease with which Empoleon switches into them, with Grass Knot being mostly superior but Hidden Power Grass hitting Rotom-W, Keldeo, and Gastrodon harder. However, Toxic is more effective in the long run, as Jellicent and Gastrodon have reliable recovery to heal off any damage taken from Grass Knot or Hidden Power Grass. Yawn is an alternative to Roar for a sort of psuedo-phazing move, and is deadly with BW's sleep mechanics. On the other hand, Substitute users, such as Dragonite and Latias, cannot be beaten with Yawn, thus Roar is preferred.</p>

<p>Due to its weaknesses to common physical attacks and lack of much investment in Defense, a partner that can take them is needed. Gliscor in particular stands out, boasting perfect type synergy with Empoleon and benefiting from the burns that Empoleon spreads to handle physical attackers even better. Due to its lack of reliable recovery, a Wish passer is useful. Xatu is a good candidate, having excellent type synergy outside of their shared weakness to Electric-type attacks. Lastly, something to sponge special Electric- and Fighting-type attacks, such as Thunder, Secret Sword, and Focus Blast, is needed. Good choices for the job include Celebi and Latias.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>When wielding a Choice Scarf, Empoleon outspeeds all of unboosted OU below Starmie, but it is straight-up outclassed by Keldeo and is pretty weak as well. A Swords Dance set is possible, with attacks such as Earthquake, Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Drill Peck, Return, and Avalanche being viable offensive options; however, base 86 Attack is disappointing and Empoleon cannot break through physical walls without rain and heavy entry hazard support. Gyarados and Feraligatr outclass it, making it even less desirable. Rain Dance could see use to support a rain team and to become a more self-sufficient sweeper, but the loss of valuable coverage or a setup move makes it difficult to find room for. Blizzard should be used over Ice Beam if you have hail support. Defiant, Empoleon's Dream World ability, might seem viable, but in reality Empoleon's inability to use its mediocre Attack stat well makes it inferior to Torrent, which provides a more useful boost to Empoleon's primary STAB. Flash Cannon should be mentioned in passing, as while it is STAB it lacks any additional coverage. Wrapping up, Agility + 3 attacks is very viable for the extra coverage move, and although it lacks protection from priority and a power boost, this is made up for by the ability to handle a wider variety of threats.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>While it is very threatening, Empoleon does have its hard counters. Ferrothorn is the best one, as although boosted Ice Beams do a decent amount, even SubPetaya will not win, as Leech Seed can catch it off guard while it sets up Agility and Power Whip breaks its Substitutes. Blissey and Chansey, also known as the pink blobs, have extraordinary special bulk that allows them to check offensive sets, but their vulnerability to Toxic makes them unreliable against defensive variants and SubPetaya with Toxic Spikes support. Rotom-W is a decent answer to Empoleon, resisting its STAB, Ice Beam, and taking little damage from Grass Knot due to its low weight, but it must be wary of Hidden Power Grass. It can retaliate with STAB Volt Switch or Thunderbolt. Bulky Water-types in general do well against offensive variants of Empoleon, though Empoleon's immunity to Toxic means that only those running super effective attacks, such as Hidden Power Electric Vaporeon, can actually kill it; otherwise they must rely on the slow, painful process of wearing it down with burns from Scald. However, depending on Empoleon's choice of Grass-type move, they might be taken down as well.</p>

<p>Moving on from the more reliable responses to Empoleon, there are quite a few ways to check it. Trappers, more specifically Dugtrio and Magnezone, outspeed, make Empoleon unable to switch out, and have super effective STAB moves which they can utilize to KO it. However, they cannot switch into Empoleon's STAB and are non-issues with an Agility boost. Thundurus-T can only switch in on Grass Knot or Hidden Power Grass, but its powerful STAB Thunder in rain fries Empoleon so completely that it turns back into a Piplup, with Modest Empoleon being unable to outsopeed Choice Scarf variants at +2. Genesect is similar, and without a Timid nature Choice Scarf variants will still outspeed, allowing it to hit back hard with a super effective Thunderbolt or Thunder. Lastly., Technician Breloom's Mach Punch is an excellent check, as Breloom resists Empoleon's STAB and can use Bullet Seed on a predicted Substitute, as well as completely walling SubPetaya variants lacking Ice Beam. Generally, the best way to beat Empoleon is to exploit its low Speed stat and rather unfortunate set of weaknesses, and stopping its momentum will condemn it to the sea, unable to rise ever again.</p>
 

Jukain

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me and my typos...
fuck my kindle fire

anyway ty rory most of check implemented except kept the mons plural and one other thing, also i added a comma in the last sentence of the overview

give gp checks
 

GatoDelFuego

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[Overview]

<p>Meet the bird of honor, Empoleon. It possesses the typing, stats, and movepool it needs to succeed as a special wall. For a bulky Water-type, Scald is standard fare; however, Empoleon also has access to Stealth Rock, giving it a niche among bulky Water-types. One might think that this makes Empoleon destined to be yet another bulky Water-type, but this is simply not the case. Its typing goes a long way offensively as well, making it an excellent pivot and setup sweeper. An above average Special Attack stat and powerful attacks, such as Hydro Pump and Ice Beam, give Empoleon the tools it needs to succeed on an offensive front. All is not sunshine and daisies for Empoleon, however, quite the contrary to be frank. It is slow and is outsped by common Choice Scarf users, such as Terrakion and Landorus, even after an Agility boost. Weaknesses to the common Ground-, Fighting-, and Electric-type attacks do it no favors, and unlike most bulky Water-types, it takes neutral damage from Fire Blast. Despite these setbacks, Empoleon has many positive attributes, which it can abuse to become one of the great kings of the deep sea.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Surf
item: Choice Specs
ability: Torrent
nature: Modest
evs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>As previously mentioned, Empoleon has a sizable Special Attack stat that it can put to good use with a Choice Specs set. This set takes advantage of everything that Empoleon can do, and is not outclassed by other Water-type special attackers, such as Keldeo, thanks to its Steel typing and stellar defenses. On the topic of its Steel typing, it grants Empoleon numerous opportunities to switch in thanks to its many resistances. This makes Empoleon one of the best pivots around, as one can simply switch it in on any resisted attack and launch a powerful Hydro Pump. Fear not if Empoleon gets worn down, as Torrent will make it even more of a threat, boosting the power of Empoleon's STAB Water-type attacks when it is low on health. Perhaps the most notable of the attacks that it can switch in on is Tornadus-T's Hurricane, one of the biggest and baddest attacks present in OU. Its immunity to Toxic prevents the Gastrodons and Vaporeons of the world from stalling it out, which is a huge advantage over other Water-type attackers. Additionally, Empoleon obtains lots of momentum by forcing its opposition out, which can be a deciding factor in many battles.</p>

<p>The attacks on this set are very straightforward; Hydro Pump is the powerful STAB move of choice, powering through all but the bulkiest of resists and the pink blobs. Its damage output is low when compared to the monstrous Keldeo, but it is still extraordinarily powerful and makes almost all Pokemon pay the price if they switch in to it. Ice Beam occupies the second moveslot and provides much-needed coverage on Dragon- and Grass-type Pokemon, especially important for the former because Empoleon makes an excellent switch-in to their primary STAB attacks. A choice of Grass-type move is then presented so that Empoleon can get past its Water-type brethren; Grass Knot hits Jellicent and Politoed harder, but Hidden Power Grass hits Rotom-W, Gastrodon, and Vaporeon harder. The choice is yours, though it should be noted that if anything besides a Water-type switches in, in most cases Grass Knot will do more damage, making it the preferred choice. Lastly, Surf is there mainly as filler, but is quite useful if you want to hit hard with a STAB move but at the same time have perfect accuracy for when it is undesirable to miss.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Since Empoleon's main claim-to-fame as a Choice Specs user is its bulk, quite a bit of EVs are dumped into its HP stat. Maximum investment in Special Attack is used to ensure that Empoleon hits as hard as it can, supplemented by a Modest nature. 56 Speed EVs allows Empoleon to outrun 8 Speed Scizor. With that aside, it is immediately apparent that Ferrothorn is an issue. Hidden Power Fire is a viable option to beat Ferrothorn&mdashhowever, it deals lackluster damage to anything else, which is important because most teams will have other switch-ins that take pittance from Hidden Power Fire.</p>

<p>The first piece of information that must be considered when attempting to support Empoleon is what types of teams it fits into. While it might seem like this Empoleon is best suited for bulky offense and balance teams, the reality is that it works excellently on heavy offense, providing said teams with some much-needed bulk and a handy pivot. Rain might seem extremely important, but the reality is that Empoleon already hits hard enough and increasing the amount of Pokemon weak to Thundurus-T's STAB is not desirable. This makes Deoxys-D an obvious partner, specifically suicide lead variants, as it might carry Psycho Boost, which hits one of Empoleon's premier counters, Tentacruel hard. The entry hazards that Deoxys-D sets up are invaluable because of the many switches that Choice Specs-boosted STAB Hydro Pump forces. Empoleon makes an excellent member of a Fire-Water-Grass core, specifically one with Heatran and Celebi, as they boast amazing type synergy together. Heatran roasts Ferrothorn, a roadblock for Empoleon, and can set up Stealth Rock, and beats specially defensive Jirachi. Celebi beats bulky Water-types, another roadblock to Empoleon, which are troublesome despite the fact that it carries a Grass-type attack. It also provides a decent switch-in to Thundurus-T and resists Ground-type attacks. Another option over Celebi is Roserade, which sets up Toxic Spikes that Empoleon can abuse to defeat Blissey and Chansey thanks to its immunity to Toxic. However, Roserade cannot switch in on Fighting- and Ground-type attacks, so Celebi is usually the superior choice. If not running Heatran or another Fire-type, a trapper, such as Magnezone or Gothitelle, or a lure, such as Expert Belt Salamence, is recommended to get rid of Ferrothorn. A fast Wish passer, such as Latias, can be used if wanted to heal off some of the damage that Empoleon takes from switching into entry hazards and resisted attacks repeatedly. Lastly&mdashand bear with me on this&mdashit is an excellent abuser of Gravity, possessing the bulk, power, and resistances central to the strategy's success and benefiting by gaining a perfectly accurate Hydro Pump.</p>

[SET]
name: SubPetaya
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Agility
move 3: Surf
move 4: Ice Beam / Grass Knot
item: Petaya Berry
ability: Torrent
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 240 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Nostalgia fans, meet DPP
Empoleon, BW style. It's barely changed since last generation, with the same playstyle and the same potential devastation that it can cause if played correctly. History aside, this set has a very straightforward setup process: switch in on one of Empoleon's numerous resistances, set up three Substitutes and obtain a +1 boost courtesy of its Petaya Berry, set up an Agility at some point during this time, and proceed to smash apart its opposition. By the end of this process, it hits like a nuke and outspeeds +1 Dragonite. In short, over the course of a relatively simple 4 to 5 turns, Empoleon is ready to go.</p>

<p>The attacks on this set are relatively simple&mdashSurf is powerful enough after a Petaya Berry boost and rain, and one Hydro Pump miss could doom Empoleon because of the low amount of health required to activate its item. Additionally, it will be Torrent boosted as well in Petaya Berry range, so rest assured Surf hits more than hard enough. The choice of coverage move mainly depends on what Empoleon's teammates can kill; Ice Beam hits Dragon- and Grass-types super effectively, such as Dragonite, Celebi, Latios, Latias, and Venusaur, and hits Toxicroak for neutral damage. Alternatively, Grass Knot can be used to hit Jellicent, Gyarados, Kingdra, Politoed, and Gastrodon hard, but outside of those immune to Surf, Surf does more than enough damage in rain, rendering Grass Knot an inferior option. For an exact Base Power, resisted Surf in rain with a Torrent boost has 160 Base Power, which is more than adequate to hit these Pokemon.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The given EVs may seem complex, but they serve a purpose. 12 HP EVs makes Empoleon's HP stat divisible by 4, which means that it will only take 3 Substitutes from full health to activate Petaya Berry. 240 Speed EVs are enough to outrun +1 Jolly Gyarados, as however rare it may be, there is no use moving what would amount to 4 EVs elsewhere. Maximum investment in Special Attack ensures the largest possible damage output. A Modest nature is preferred to supplement this power, but Timid is equally viable&mdashit allows Empoleon to outspeed Choice Scarf Rotom-W, Choice Scarf Haxorus, Choice Scarf Genesect, and Choice Scarf Salamence after an Agility boost, which is important because all of them could otherwise stomp all over Empoleon.</p>

<p>On the topic of moves, Hydro Pump is a viable alternative to Surf, hitting significantly harder, but it gains few notable KOs and has an unreliable 80% accuracy, and at the low range of health that Empoleon must be at to activate Petaya Berry, a miss could be the difference between an Empoleon sweep and a dead Empoleon. Hidden Power Grass might seem optimal to hit Keldeo, Rotom-W, Gastrodon, and Vaporeon harder, but in all honesty, as the former two are hit hard enough by rain-boosted Surf, it only really matters for the latter two, and Grass Knot does more damage to Jellicent, who is more common than Gastrodon and especially Vaporeon. An alternative item could be Salac Berry, which allows Empoleon to outspeed Choice Scarf Keldeo, Choice Scarf Terrakion, Choice Scarf Thundurus-T, Choice Scarf Genesect, and Choice Scarf Landorus. The lack of power can be remedied by a Pokemon to Baton Pass it Special Attack boosts, such as Mew or Celebi.</p>

<p>While not completely necessary, rain from Politoed is extraordinarily helpful, allowing Empoleon to achieve many KOs that could make or break its sweep. Despite this set's massive power set up, Pokemon with the ability Sturdy or that hold a Focus Sash spell doom for it. As you obviously want Empoleon to sweep unhindered, Deoxys-D, Ferrothorn, or Forretress is recommended to set up entry hazards. Additionally, Tentacruel or Roserade can set up Toxic Spikes, which are helpful to break through bulky Water-types if running Ice Beam and to stall out Blissey and Chansey. Whatever coverage move is chosen obviously leaves Empoleon open to something. If running Ice Beam, a Pokemon that can defeat bulky Water-types, such as Celebi or Thundurus-T, is needed. If running Grass Knot, a Pokemon such as Mamoswine or Choice Scarf Salamence is needed to defeat Dragon- and Grass-types. There are two more partners that should be considered. The first is the often overlooked Weavile, who has the unique ability of being able to both remove opposing Grass- and Dragon-types and trap Latios, Latias, Jellicent, and Celebi, which is quite useful for Empoleon. The second is Gothitelle, as its trapping abilities are extremely helpful. It can trap and kill Celebi if it runs Signal Beam, Ferrothorn if it runs Hidden Power Fire, Breloom with its STAB Psychic-type attack, and Blissey and Chansey with Psyshock. Additionally, its STAB hits Poison-types super effectively, most importantly the grounded ones that can absorb the beneficial Toxic Spikes. Gothitelle can have its moveset put together for any and all of your trapping needs, and with the right moveset is a huge benefactor in an Empoleon sweep.</p>

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Scald
move 3: Toxic / Roar
move 4: Protect / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Torrent
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Empoleon's other sets are based on showcasing its offensive capabilities, this set takes advantage of its excellent defensive typing to make a solid special wall. Empoleon's unique Steel typing among bulky Water-types gives it the capacity to switch into powerful special attacks, such as Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump, Hurricane, and Blizzard. It should be specifically mentioned how amazing of a switch-in it is for Tornadus-T's Hurricane, taking pittance from an attack that blows numerous OU Pokemon off the map. Its typing also gives it resistances to both of Scizor's STAB moves, making it an excellent check to the infernal metal bug. Unlike its bulky Water-type brethren, it is immune to Toxic, the bane of Gastrodons and Jellicents everywhere.</p>

<p>Scald is an incredibly useful tool for Empoleon, giving it the ability to take on strong physical attackers due to its high burn chance. Thanks to STAB, it prevents frail sweepers, such as Gengar and Alakazam, from taking their sweet time to set up on Empoleon. Protect enables Empoleon to scout for super effective attacks, such as Choice Scarf Rotom-W's Volt Switch and Tornadus-T's Superpower, as well as providing an extra turn of Leftovers recovery, which helps compensate for its lack of reliable recovery, and racking up Toxic damage. Speaking of Toxic, it allows Empoleon to beat opposing bulky Water-types and wears down Life Orb sweepers, especially when combined with sandstorm damage, very quickly. It is also a huge help against Substitute + Calm Mind Latias. Alternatively, Roar can be used to prevent Calm Mind Reuniclus and Latias from using Empoleon as setup fodder, while also spreading entry hazard damage. Ice Beam is a viable option over Protect to aid in the defeat of Dragonite and Salamence, both having their primary STAB resisted by Empoleon. Last up is the ace in the hole, Stealth Rock. Give me one bulky Water-type that has Stealth Rock. If you can name one, I can guarantee that it has no place on that Pokemon's moveset. With Empoleon, this is not the case, as it is not cramped for moveslots and has numerous opportunities to set up Stealth Rock.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are simple&mdashto start off, 248 HP EVs ensure that Empoleon takes minimal damage from Stealth Rock and Leech Seed. The Defense EVs are invested so that Empoleon can better handle Dragon Dance Dragonite and Salamence, while the remaining EVs are placed in Special Defense to bolster Empoleon's ability to handle special attackers. Some EVs that are invested into the defenses can be moved to Speed for Scizor, Skarmory, Tyranitar, and Jellicent. A Grass-type attack might be desired to hit opposing Water-types because of the ease with which Empoleon switches into them, with Grass Knot being mostly superior but Hidden Power Grass hitting Rotom-W, Keldeo, and Gastrodon harder. However, Toxic is more effective in the long run, as Jellicent and Gastrodon have reliable recovery to heal off any damage taken from Grass Knot or Hidden Power Grass. Yawn is an alternative to Roar for a sort of psuedo-phazing move, and is deadly with BW's sleep mechanics. On the other hand, Substitute users, such as Dragonite and Latias, cannot be beaten with Yawn, thus Roar is preferred.</p>

<p>Due to its weaknesses to common physical attacks and lack of much investment in Defense, a partner that can take them is needed. Gliscor in particular stands out, boasting perfect type synergy with Empoleon and benefiting from the burns that Empoleon spreads to handle physical attackers even better. Due to its lack of reliable recovery, a Wish passer is useful. Xatu is a good candidate, having excellent type synergy outside of their shared weakness to Electric-type attacks. Lastly, something to sponge special Electric- and Fighting-type attacks, such as Thunder, Secret Sword, and Focus Blast, is needed. Good choices for the job include Celebi and Latias.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>When wielding a Choice Scarf, Empoleon outspeeds all of unboosted OU below Starmie, but it is straight up outclassed by Keldeo and is pretty weak as well. A Swords Dance set is possible, with attacks such as Earthquake, Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Drill Peck, Return, and Avalanche being viable offensive options; however, base 86 Attack is disappointing and Empoleon cannot break through physical walls without rain and heavy entry hazard support. Gyarados and Feraligatr outclass it, making it even less desirable. Rain Dance could see use to support a rain team and to become a more self-sufficient sweeper, but the loss of valuable coverage or a setup move makes it difficult to find room for. Blizzard should be used over Ice Beam if you have hail support. Defiant, Empoleon's Dream World ability, might seem viable, but in reality Empoleon's inability to use its mediocre Attack stat well makes it inferior to Torrent, which provides a more useful boost to Empoleon's primary STAB. Flash Cannon should be mentioned in passing, as while it is STAB it lacks any additional coverage. Wrapping up, Agility + 3 attacks is very viable for the extra coverage move, and although it lacks protection from priority and a power boost, this is made up for by the ability to handle a wider variety of threats.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>While it is very threatening, Empoleon does have its hard counters. Ferrothorn is the best one, as although boosted Ice Beams do a decent amount, even SubPetaya will not win, as Leech Seed can catch it off guard while it sets up Agility and Power Whip breaks its Substitutes. Blissey and Chansey, also known as the pink blobs, have extraordinary special bulk that allows them to check offensive sets, but their vulnerability to Toxic makes them unreliable against defensive variants and SubPetaya with Toxic Spikes support. Rotom-W is a decent answer to Empoleon, resisting its STAB, Ice Beam, and taking little damage from Grass Knot due to its low weight, but it must be wary of Hidden Power Grass. It can retaliate with STAB Volt Switch or Thunderbolt. Bulky Water-types in general do well against offensive variants of Empoleon, though Empoleon's immunity to Toxic means that only those running super effective attacks, such as Hidden Power Electric Vaporeon, can actually kill it; otherwise they must rely on the slow, painful process of wearing it down with burns from Scald. However, depending on Empoleon's choice of Grass-type move, they might be taken down as well.</p>

<p>Moving on from the more reliable responses to Empoleon, there are quite a few ways to check it. Trappers, more specifically Dugtrio and Magnezone, outspeed, make Empoleon unable to switch out, and have super effective STAB moves which they can utilize to KO it. However, they cannot switch into Empoleon's STAB and are non-issues with an Agility boost. Thundurus-T can only switch in on Grass Knot or Hidden Power Grass, but its powerful STAB Thunder in rain fries Empoleon so completely that it turns back into a Piplup, with Modest Empoleon being unable to outspeed Choice Scarf variants at +2. Genesect is similar, and without a Timid nature Choice Scarf variants will still outspeed, allowing it to hit back hard with a super effective Thunderbolt or Thunder. Lastly, Technician Breloom's Mach Punch is an excellent check, as Breloom resists Empoleon's STAB and can use Bullet Seed on a predicted Substitute, as well as completely walling SubPetaya variants lacking Ice Beam. Generally, the best way to beat Empoleon is to exploit its low Speed stat and rather unfortunate set of weaknesses, and stopping its momentum will condemn it to the sea, unable to rise ever again.</p>


GP Approved 1/2

 

Jukain

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thanks a bunch gato, your check is implemented. actually, not completely. first of all, you didn't need to replace all my em dashes with &mdash, which btw is mdash; they show up the same anyway. secondly, 3rd paragraph of SubPetaya AC:

If running Grass Knot, a Pokemon such as Mamoswine or Choice Scarf Salamence is needed to defeat Dragon- and Grass-types.

The "such as" is replacing "like". In this scenario, unless I'm mistaken (which is quite possible), "like" is correctly used here. It is supposed to be used as "similar to", and "like" is trying to convey "similar to Mamoswine and Choice Scarf Salamence".

Cheers.
 

GatoDelFuego

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I take the sentence as "A pokemon is needed to defeat Dragon and Grass-types, and an example of a pokmon like this is Mamoswine or Choice Scarf Salamence"

Of course, it could actually be "A pokemon similar to Mamoswine is needed", but I think the 1st sentence is what's more normally used throughout the site analysis. You could make an argument for the 2nd sentence, but you can use the 1st one and it sounds a bit better imo, but you'll be fighting off and convincing people left and right that like is better.

You're the HTML guy, so I suppose whatever you do with your emdashes is good
 

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