Espeon (Offensive Magic Bounce) (READY FOR UPLOAD)

AccidentalGreed

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#1
Oh god, why am I doing another Psychic-type with bare coverage? Been wanting to do this one for a while now, and after a little back-and forth on IRC with some other OU peeps, I decided "hey, why not?"

Status: DONE~

QC Approvals (3/3): (Dice) (PK Gaming) (ginganinja)
GP Approvals (2/2): (Rohail17) (Fuzznip)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


All these screens and I'm just sitting here smoking the bad stuff

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Psyshock / Psychic
move 2: Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Signal Beam / Grass Knot
move 4: Baton Pass / Protect
item: Life Orb
ability: Magic Bounce
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although Espeon is typically seen and used as a support unit, this set takes advantage of its fantastic Special Attack and Speed stats, allowing Espeon to pose as a formidable special attacker while still being able to utilize Magic Bounce effectively. This variant also doesn't lose momentum as often as the other sets due to its splendid power and coverage, and offers a greater chance of luring and beating opponents that would normally stay in against Espeon. Psyshock is the preferred STAB move on this set as it reliably attains more kills against relevant threats; this includes an OHKO on Terrakion in sandstorm and Calm Mind Keldeo, and a 2HKO against special walls such as Gastrodon and Blissey. On the other hand, Psychic is an overall more powerful option for physical walls such as Gliscor and Hippowdon. Hidden Power Fire is nigh-mandatory; boosted by Life Orb and investment, it wipes out Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, and Scizor, all of which are number one targets for this set.</p>

<p>In the third slot, Signal Beam is chosen as it has good coverage with Psyshock and hits Dark- and Psychic-types such as Hydreigon and Celebi super effectively. Grass Knot can be used over Signal Beam for a chance to 2HKO 252 HP/0 SpD Tyranitar and OHKO Gastrodon and Hippowdon, but note that Espeon should not risk staying in front of a healthy Tyranitar. The last slot ultimately determines how Espeon performs against its regular counters. Baton Pass allows Espeon to scout and virtually be immune to slower Pursuits, especially those coming from Tyranitar, Scizor, and Metagross. Protect is an equally useful alternative which eases prediction and scouts the opponent's next possible move; this is especially useful against Metagross, Scizor, and other priority users, most of whom might use their respective priority attacks rather than Pursuit or any other move.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>As far as other options go, Hidden Power Ground specifically hits Heatran, which walls this set otherwise, but leaves Espeon helpless against a host of important Steel-types this set was designed to win against. Calm Mind is another option to boost Espeon's offense even further, allowing it to break through some defensively-oriented threats and cores while preventing opponents attempting to accumulate Life Orb recoil. Keep in mind that Espeon might not find time to effectively utilize the boost as, without the protection of Protect or Baton Pass, its sweep is often stopped short by Choice Scarf users and priority.</p>

<p>Espeon should obviously be paired with teammates that benefit from the lack of entry hazards on its side of the field. Again, due to its expanded coverage and power, it is recommended to choose Pokemon that can clean up after it, namely late-game sweepers and attackers such as Choice Scarf Keldeo and Dragon Dance Dragonite. It should be noted that Espeon is hard-walled by Heatran and defensive Latias; reasonably bulky Water-types, such as Gyarados, Rotom-W, and Keldeo, can take care of Heatran, while specially defensive Jirachi easily handles Latias. Espeon also pairs well with teammates that can take moves such as Bullet Punch and Pursuit, as it can escape them with Protect or Baton Pass, respectively. Rotom-W, Cobalion, Gyarados, Keldeo, Jirachi, Volcarona, Magnezone, Scizor, and Heatran do not mind these two moves at all, and can also take most other forms of priority reasonably well. Bulky Volcarona in particular stands out, as it can set up on these moves easily and put immediate pressure on the opposing team after a Quiver Dance boost, and also appreciates Espeon's ability to keep Stealth Rock away.</p>

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Trades support attacks and bulk (bulk? What bulk?) for super good offensive coverage/presence.
  • Psyshock is better than Psychic because of Terrakion in Sandstorm, CM Keldeo, Gastrodon (who faces a 2HKO) and the pink blobs. Psychic is for overall power and for powering through Gliscor + other physical walls
  • Hidden Power Fire is mandatory because KOing Ferrothorn, Scizor, Forretress, and Skarmory ASAP is high priority with this set. It also 2HKOes Jirachi on the switch-in with prior damage.
  • Signal Beam has good coverage with STAB Psychic-type move, and hits other Psychic-types like Celebi and Latios pretty well.
  • Grass Knot is a hits Tyranitar (Modest Grass Knot = 44.3 - 52.72% on SpD T-Tar), Gastrodon, and Hippowdon much harder, but you shouldn't be facing Tyranitar anyway.
  • Leftovers makes Espeon weak
  • Baton Pass allows Espeon to escape Pursuit users, especially Tyranitar whom Espeon can't really hit hard
  • Espeon can pull off MysticGar (Protect + Three Attacks) to predict + scout certain moves (will Scizor use Pursuit or Bullet Punch or U-turn, and what sort of Jirachi is that guy using?)
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Timid nature to outrun Terrakion, Keldeo, and have a chance to tie with opposing Latios and Espeon
  • Hidden Power Ground for Heatran
  • In the last slot, Baton Pass can be used to escape Pursuit from TTar easier, though Espeon has a harder time predicting around Scizor.
  • Calm Mind so Espeon can boost while predicting around opponents trying to stall with LO recoil. Can be used with HP Fighting, though Scizor and Ferrothorn become more of an issue.
  • Good teammates that can take moves such as Pursuit and Bullet Punch when Espeon escapes them. Rotom-W, Cobalion, Keldeo, your own Scizor, and Heatran DGAF about these two moves. These Pokemon can also take Ice Shard reasonably well.
  • Get offensive support for Heatran and Latias as well. Scizor and your own Heatran can take care of these assuming these threats don't carry specific moves.
 
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Pocket

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#2
Heatran cock-blocks this set, so you would want a partner to deal with it, such as Gyarados, Rotom-W, or Heatran of your own.

Calm Mind is worth an AC mention, so the opponent cant try to rack up LO recoils by switching into resistances

That said, I still have reservations for this set.
 
#4
What about f.sash instead of life orb ? it would be able to switch fearless in most stealth rockers,and if it does its job right it wont get its sash broken by hazards,
i believe that sash would be more valid in ubers where almost every attack is a ko against that little fragile pok
 

Soul Fly

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#5
Excellent Spread, nice results when I tried it. The surprise factor wins it by cinch.

But, can you AC a Calm Mind+HP Fighting+Psychic/Psyshock/Stored Power+Shadow Ball/Coverage?

Really cockfucks oversmart opponents trying to rack up LO recoil. Stored Power mainly because it hits harder than Psychic if you manage to CM twice on predicting opponents, but situational imo.

At +1, HP fighting 2HKOs BOTH Ferrothorn and SpDef Heatran (who happens to be the most common Espy switch-in). Shadow Ball screws with the likes of Sableye and Cresselia who otherwise outright wall it.

All in All a really decent Boosting Sweeper after the Opponent's scarfer has been eliminated, and has it's merits.

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EDIT:
What about f.sash instead of life orb ? it would be able to switch fearless in most stealth rockers,and if it does its job right it wont get its sash broken by hazards,
i believe that sash would be more valid in ubers where almost every attack is a ko against that little fragile pok
Uhm this is an OU analysis thread so performance in ubers is irrelevant here. And it also happens to be the first set to be listed in Espeon's WIP Ubers Analysis
In OU Sash Set is outclassed in all merits by Alakazam and hence redundant.
 
#6
I havne't used this set myself so I can't judge, but would Morning Sun be worth a mention? It helps make up for that lack of Leftovers recovery, and along with HP Fire works well in the Sun.
 

Namso

Guest
#7
What about f.sash instead of life orb ? it would be able to switch fearless in most stealth rockers,and if it does its job right it wont get its sash broken by hazards,
i believe that sash would be more valid in ubers where almost every attack is a ko against that little fragile pok
I feel like that would defeat the purpose of an offensive Magic Bounce abuser. It's also more of a nuisance to make with absolute certainty Espeon will switch in safely with Focus Sash intact, given that leading with Espeon is not the smartest way to execute its niche playstyle. Plus, without Life Orb, Timid Espeon no longer has the capability of scoring a 2HKO (39%-47% with a 1% to 2HKO w/ Stealth Rock) on Blissey with Psyshock, a Pokemon Espeon would love to switch in on.

I havne't used this set myself so I can't judge, but would Morning Sun be worth a mention? It helps make up for that lack of Leftovers recovery, and along with HP Fire works well in the Sun.
Well, with the surplus of weather teams, particularly rain and sand (hail is not too uncommon either), it would be pretty risky to run Morning Sun given that its healing is reduced to 25% under the aforementioned weather effects. You're pretty much forced to use Ninetales and keep the sun rolling to make full use of the move, which I personally feel is not worth it.

Just my thoughts.
 

AccidentalGreed

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#8
thanks for your suggestions/thoughts guys, and thanks to you especially for the first QC check, Dice!

Now, as far as suggestions are concerned, I'm just putting in Calm Mind and HP Fighting in for now. Stored Power is better used by the actual Calm Mind + Baton Pass set since this Espeon requires a full-powered STAB move the first turn it comes in, and most likely it won't manage more than one CM boost. Morning Sub is a little more OO-able than AC-able, as Morning Sub isn't exactly reliable recovery in the current metagame, and Espeon can only scare so many threats out and manage its coverage moves.

Also, thanks Pocket, derped about the Heatran bit there. Feel free to express your reservations.
 

shrang

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#9
Just a small gripe, but
Espeon can pull off MysticGar (Protect + Three Attacks) to predict + scout certain moves (will Scizor use Pursuit or Bullet Punch or U-turn, and what sort of Jirachi is that guy using?)
Wouldn't it just be awful to spam Protect on a turn like that and it turns out you just gave Jirachi a free Sub or Calm Mind, or if you just gave Scizor a free Swords Dance?
 
#10
Make sure you slash Baton Pass over Protect in the first slot! (Most of us agreed that complete immunity from Tyranitar's Pursuit is more useful than being able to defeat Scizor's that switch in)

[qc]2/3[/qc]
 

AccidentalGreed

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#16
Yeah, guys, let's not try turning this into a completely different set haha. The list of things going into the AC is already humongous as it is, and some options stray away from the point of this set. I promise Calm Mind and a couple of other things are going in though! Progress: halfway done.
 

Arkian

What's wrong with being confident?
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#20
Time for some GP magic!
Abra.....Kadabra....

GP Check

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diff said:
[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Psyshock / Psychic
move 2: Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Signal Beam / Grass Knot
move 4: Baton Pass / Protect
item: Life Orb
ability: Magic Bounce
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although Espeon is typically seen and used as a support unit, this set takes advantage of its fantastic Special Attack and Speed stats, allowing Espeon to still utilize Magic Bounce effectively while posing as a formidable special attacker for owhile still being able to utilize Magic Bounce effensctive teamsly. This variant also doesn't lose momentum as often as the other sets due to its splendid power and coverage, and offers a greater chance of luring and beating opponents that would normally stay into Espeon. Psyshock is the preferred STAB move on this set as it reliably attains more kills against relevant threats; this includes an OHKO on Terrakion in sandstorm and Calm Mind Keldeo, and a 2HKOes against special walls such as Gastrodon and Blissey. On the other hand, Psychic is an overall more powerful option for physical walls likesuch as Gliscor and Hippowdon. Hidden Power Fire is nigh-mandatory; boosted by Life Orb and investment, it wipes out Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, and Scizor, all of which are number one targets for this set.</p>

<p>In the third slot, Signal Beam is chosen as it has good coverage with Psyshock,(RC) and hits other Dark- orand Psychic-types likesuch Celebi and Hydreigon super effectively. Grass Knot can be used over Signal Beam to for a chance to 2HKO 252/0 Tyranitar and OHKO Gastrodon and Hippowdon, but Espeon should not risk staying in front of a healthy Tyranitar anyways. The last slot ultimately determines how Espeon performs against its regular counters. Baton Pass allows Espeon to scout and be virtually be immune fromto slower Pursuits, especially those coming from Tyranitar, Scizor, and Metagross. Protect is an equally useful alternative which eases prediction and scouts out the opponent's next possible moves; this is especially very useful against Metagross, Scizor, and other priority users, most of whom mayight use their respective priority attacks rather than Pursuit or any other move.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>As far as other options are concernedgo, Hidden Power Ground specifically hits Heatran specifically, which walls this set otherwise, but leaves Espeon helpless against a host of important Steel-types this set was designed to win against. Calm Mind is another option to boost its offense even further, allowing it to break through some defensively-oriented threats and cores while playing around players attempting to stall with Life Orb recoil. Keep in mind that Espeon mayight not find time to effectively utilize the boost as, without the protection of Protect or Baton Pass, its sweep is often stopped short by Choice Scarf users and priority.</p>

<p>Espeon should obviously enough be paired with teammates that benefit from the lack of entry hazards on its side of the battlefield. Again, due to its expanded coverage and power, its own coverage, synergy, and momentum become lesser issues, so it is recommended to choose Pokemon that can clean up after it. However, it is hard-walled by Heatran and defensive Latias; a Mamoswine or Heatran of your own with Earth Power can check or counter these threats casually ((RH),(AC) assuming Latias isn't carrying Surf)(RH). Espeon also pairs well with teammates that can take moves such as Bullet Punch and Pursuit, asince it can escape them with Baton Pass or Protect. Rotom-W, Cobalion, Keldeo, Volcarona, Magnezone, your own Scizor, and Heatran do not mind these two moves at all, and can also take most other forms of priority reasonably well. Bulky Volcarona in particular stands out, as it can set up on these moves easily and put immediate pressure on the opposing team after a Quiver Dance boost, and also appreciates Espeon's ability to keep Stealth Rock away.</p> Avoid using the words "may" and "since", as they are very vague. Replace the former with "might" or "can", and replace the latter with "as" or "because".
...Alakazam!

Oh and please change the tag to Copyediting


GP Approved 1/2
 
#22
Let's get this on-site, shall we?

Additions.
Deletions.
Comments.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Psyshock / Psychic
move 2: Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Signal Beam / Grass Knot
move 4: Baton Pass / Protect
item: Life Orb
ability: Magic Bounce
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although Espeon is typically seen and used as a support unit, this set takes advantage of its fantastic Special Attack and Speed stats, allowing Espeon to pose as a formidable special attacker while still being able to utilize Magic Bounce effectively. This variant also doesn't lose momentum as often as the other sets due to its splendid power and coverage, and offers a greater chance of luring and beating opponents that would normally stay into in against Espeon. Psyshock is the preferred STAB move on this set as it reliably attains more kills against relevant threats; this includes an OHKO on Terrakion in sandstorm and Calm Mind Keldeo, and a 2HKO against special walls such as Gastrodon and Blissey. On the other hand, Psychic is an overall more powerful option for physical walls such as Gliscor and Hippowdon. Hidden Power Fire is nigh-mandatory; boosted by Life Orb and investment, it wipes out Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, and Scizor, all of which are number one targets for this set.</p>

<p>In the third slot, Signal Beam is chosen as it has good coverage with Psyshock and hits Dark- and Psychic-types such as Celebi Hydreigon and Hydreigon Celebi super effectively. Grass Knot can be used over Signal Beam to for a chance to 2HKO 252/0 252 HP/0 SpD Tyranitar and OHKO Gastrodon and Hippowdon, but note that Espeon should not risk staying in front of a healthy Tyranitar anyways. The last slot ultimately determines how Espeon performs against its regular counters. Baton Pass allows Espeon to scout and virtually be immune to slower Pursuits, especially those coming from Tyranitar, Scizor, and Metagross. Protect is an equally useful alternative which eases prediction and scouts out the opponent's next possible move; this is especially very useful against Metagross, Scizor, and other priority users, most of whom might use their respective priority attacks rather than Pursuit or any other move.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>As far as other options go, Hidden Power Ground specifically hits Heatran, which walls this set otherwise, but leaves Espeon helpless against a host of important Steel-types this set was designed to win against. Calm Mind is another option to boost its Espeon's offense even further, allowing it to break through some defensively-oriented threats and cores while playing around preventing players attempting to stall with accumulate Life Orb recoil. Keep in mind that Espeon might not find time to effectively utilize the boost as, without the protection of Protect or Baton Pass, its sweep is often stopped short by Choice Scarf users and priority.</p>

<p>Espeon should obviously be paired with teammates that benefit from the lack of entry hazards on its side of the field. Again, due to its expanded coverage and power, its own coverage, synergy, and momentum become lesser issues, so [I don't really know what you're trying to say here, so I suggested to remove it. Are you implying that Espeon doesn't need support for it to work, but rather teammates that appreciate what it does? If so, perhaps try rewording it? ]it is recommended to choose Pokemon that can clean up after it [Such as what? I'd put down certain Pokemon that are good at late-game sweeping. Perhaps Mixed Jirachi and Choice Scarf Keldeo? You can choose what you want to say here.]. However, it is It should be noted that Espeon is hard-walled by Heatran and defensive Latias; a Mamoswine or Heatran of your own with Earth Power can check or counter these threats, assuming Latias isn't carrying Surf [Mamoswine and Heatran really aren't the best answers for Heatran and Latias in my opinion. I'd put something a little more surefire in countering them. I'd suggest mentioning Gyarados for Heatran as it can take this opportunity to set up Dragon Dance (another late-game sweeper) and probably Scizor for Latias, who can keep momentum up via U-turn.] . Espeon also pairs well with teammates that can take moves such as Bullet Punch and Pursuit, as it can escape them with Baton Pass Protect or Protect Baton Pass, respectively. Rotom-W, Cobalion, Keldeo, Volcarona, Magnezone, your own Scizor, and Heatran do not mind these two moves at all, and can also take most other forms of priority reasonably well. Bulky Volcarona in particular stands out, as it can set up on these moves easily and put immediate pressure on the opposing team after a Quiver Dance boost, and also appreciates Espeon's ability to keep Stealth Rock away.</p>
Great job writing this. My only concerns are found in the [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] section. Once you acknowledge/fix them, I'll take another quick look and stamp it for you. Everything else is pretty much perfect.
 
#23
Alright let's get this done for real!

Protect is an equally useful alternative which eases prediction and scouts the opponent's next possible move; this is especially useful against Metagross, Scizor, and other priority users, most of whom which might use their respective priority attacks rather than Pursuit or any other move.</p>
This is for consistency purposes as you're referring to Pokemon as objects.

It should be noted that Espeon is hard-walled by Heatran and defensive Latias; reasonably bulky Water-types, such as Gyarados, Rotom-W, and Keldeo, can take care of Heatran, while specially defensive Jirachi easily handles Latias.
Commas after "types" and "Keldeo."

Fix these two minor things and GP 2/2, great job.