I don't see Pursuit nearly as much anymore since Psychic types are scarce and one of the most used Psychics, Gardevoir, isn't weak to Pursuit anymore. I'd say that its safe to forgo BP.
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Pokémon Espeon
- Thread starter Haze Milotic
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I don't see Pursuit nearly as much anymore since Psychic types are scarce and one of the most used Psychics, Gardevoir, isn't weak to Pursuit anymore. I'd say that its safe to forgo BP.
The only espeon set I use to sweep teams is a bulky espeon with max defense and max hp with lefties
Hidden power fire
Calm mind
Psyshock
Morning sun
Hidden power fire
Calm mind
Psyshock
Morning sun
I don't think I've ever seen a pursuit user in gen 6 OU, except maybe Tyranitar. So it's generally better to use that fourth move slot for something else, like a coverage move or a support move.
That doesn't... really seem that good of a choice. It gets walled by Dark types pretty easily because HP Fire really doesn't pack much of a punch this meta, and Espeon's physical defenses are godawful.
I like Espeon a lot, although she can be underwhelming at times. Despite her being offensively outclassed, offensive Espeon still seems like a superior set. Her high sp atk lets her beat out some really annoying tanks like Conkeldurr/Mega Venusaur, and dent special walls (Rotom W, Blissey). There's a lot of better Dual Screeners out there. Lastly, she seems mandatory on Baton Pass teams as both a passer and a pass receiver.
Also great to lead with to deal with Klefki with Spikes and Carbink with Stealth Rock, A Baton Pass onw would also work well on yours.
I agree, Its a bit different and unexpected, but different and unexpected doesnt always equal good.
I wouldn't recommend that. Carbink's relatively useless and is incredibly passive - get a better stealth rock setter. Besides, it means you're doubling up on Fairy-types.
It's a shame that Dualscreens Espeon is nowhere near as good this gen, it was my favourite set last gen. (Well, at least now I've got Klefki filling that role.)
Also, good tip: Don't lead with Espeon. Lead with a different pokemon (as I've said earlier, Klefki's what I use for this role), then switch to Espeon if the enemy sends out their hazards lead first. If you lead with Espeon, they won't be stupid enough to use hazards (most of the time), which means you won't be able to bounce them. Which is bad.
Baton Pass isn't just for escaping Pursuit, but also scouting. Toss out a Yawn, then Baton Pass to see who your opponent switches to. There's also Baton passing a Petaya or Salac berry boost on a VoltTurn(Pass) team; Greninja certainly likes a boost, seeing as it can't boost on its own.
Tossing ideas out:
Charm can also force a switch - I generally see alot more physical attackers this gen than special attackers. Reflect+Charm would effectively cut a physical attacker to 25% damage, effectively halting a physical attacker's momentum and even if they switch Reflect is still up. That's 2 move slots, though, and I haven't tried that out myself yet, might by gimmicky.
Morning Sun is slightly more reliable this Gen with weather nerf. Megazard Y offers some synergy there, boosting Morning Sun while Espeon keeps hazards off.
And there's Trick. For surprise factor anyways, most mons that Espeon faces don't appreciate being tricked Specs or Scarf.
As far as BP teams go, Espeon is still a key part and they're still viable. Scizor can remove hazards which BP teams couldn't do before, there's good Megas w/ BP like Medicham and Mawile, Mr. Mime is now part Fairy. Espeon doesn't even need many boosts to do serious damage w/ Stored Power.
And there's also Kee and Maranga berries. On a predicted Physical hit, switch in a Kee Berry holder and your team gets +1 Def, and ditto for special attacks and Maranga Berry. Reduces the time needed to build up defenses on a BP team and Espeon's Stored Power.
Of course, Espeon's a pure Psychic type, which just flat out sucks this Gen. There's almost zero offensive or defensive synergy that Psychic type offers this generation. Dark and Ghosts are very common, and the Fairy type pretty much makes Psychic redundant. Espeon's got some neat tools, but the typing is a huge hindrance, as there's nothing to switch into except predicted status moves or some weaker neutral special hits. Hopefully GameFreak will give psychics a much needed buff somehow with X2Y2 or whatever the mid-gen release is.
Tossing ideas out:
Charm can also force a switch - I generally see alot more physical attackers this gen than special attackers. Reflect+Charm would effectively cut a physical attacker to 25% damage, effectively halting a physical attacker's momentum and even if they switch Reflect is still up. That's 2 move slots, though, and I haven't tried that out myself yet, might by gimmicky.
Morning Sun is slightly more reliable this Gen with weather nerf. Megazard Y offers some synergy there, boosting Morning Sun while Espeon keeps hazards off.
And there's Trick. For surprise factor anyways, most mons that Espeon faces don't appreciate being tricked Specs or Scarf.
As far as BP teams go, Espeon is still a key part and they're still viable. Scizor can remove hazards which BP teams couldn't do before, there's good Megas w/ BP like Medicham and Mawile, Mr. Mime is now part Fairy. Espeon doesn't even need many boosts to do serious damage w/ Stored Power.
And there's also Kee and Maranga berries. On a predicted Physical hit, switch in a Kee Berry holder and your team gets +1 Def, and ditto for special attacks and Maranga Berry. Reduces the time needed to build up defenses on a BP team and Espeon's Stored Power.
Of course, Espeon's a pure Psychic type, which just flat out sucks this Gen. There's almost zero offensive or defensive synergy that Psychic type offers this generation. Dark and Ghosts are very common, and the Fairy type pretty much makes Psychic redundant. Espeon's got some neat tools, but the typing is a huge hindrance, as there's nothing to switch into except predicted status moves or some weaker neutral special hits. Hopefully GameFreak will give psychics a much needed buff somehow with X2Y2 or whatever the mid-gen release is.
That's a great idea. I already run Yawn, but never thought of using Baton Pass to scout their switch. I usually just use that turn to Reflect, CM or switch out. Ill have to mess around with it some more. I have to see what would give me the most momentum. Maybe something like:
-Yawn
-Baton Pass
-Calm Mind/Reflect
-DG
The problem with this cutie: it's too damn frail!
In 1on1 it can be fun to use because of rage inducing Yawn, but in doubles it's a wasted teamslot.
Most people I played against sent in a Ghost or Dark type immediatly. Even a Calm Minded DG won't wreck a Tyranitar in a Sandstorm. And even with Reflect up it can't take a STAB Crunch. Not to mention Pursuit. And Yawn isn't that helpful when your enemy has two powerhouses on the field just to switch the yawned one and to murder the crap out of your Espeon with the other one. In doubles you often hardly get a Reflect or Light Screen up before you lose it. And switching it in ends up in an instant KO, if you wrongly predict a suspected status move.
In 1on1 it can be fun to use because of rage inducing Yawn, but in doubles it's a wasted teamslot.
Most people I played against sent in a Ghost or Dark type immediatly. Even a Calm Minded DG won't wreck a Tyranitar in a Sandstorm. And even with Reflect up it can't take a STAB Crunch. Not to mention Pursuit. And Yawn isn't that helpful when your enemy has two powerhouses on the field just to switch the yawned one and to murder the crap out of your Espeon with the other one. In doubles you often hardly get a Reflect or Light Screen up before you lose it. And switching it in ends up in an instant KO, if you wrongly predict a suspected status move.
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I've been using Espeon as a LEAD for a few weeks now and she's been doing work. I run:
Espeon @ light clay
252Hp/252Sp/6SpA Timid nature
Light Screen
Reflect
Psyshock
Dazzling Gleam
I use her as a lead primarily to get screens up as quickly as possible, and I usually catch players off guard who don't predict correctly and need to switch to adjust strategy. So long as I get screens up I can freely switch into my Scizor or Conkeldurr to take a resisted bug/dark attack and hit back hard. My team is able to survive most OHKO attacks simply cause they didn't foresee Espeon being a supporter.
(team is Espeon, Scizor, Conkeldurr, Azumarill, Chandelure, and Dragonite)
I'm thinking that 2 attack double screen set wants max spa as opposed to max hp. You're probably better off with morning sun over dazzling gleam if you're going the defensive route. Just my two cents.
I'm having trouble trying to decide between the cm/baton pass set or the dual screen set. This is a total rock and a hard place situation, and meanwhile, the perfect, timid eevee I hatched just sits in the box :(
I'm having trouble trying to decide between the cm/baton pass set or the dual screen set. This is a total rock and a hard place situation, and meanwhile, the perfect, timid eevee I hatched just sits in the box :(
Dual Screens Espeon is actually a common set and is probably what most Espeon choose to run. I find it especially useful for providing an extra few lines of defense for setup sweepers (Nasty Plot/Swords Dance users, mainly) since they tend to be pretty frail and vulnerable while setting up.
I really like the dual screens + baton pass set.
Espeon @ Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp / 4 SpA
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Psychic/Psyshock/Dazzling Gleam
- Baton pass
As it was used in gen 5. Timid and max speed to make sure it sets up its screen first, max hp for bulk, and baton pass to avoid pursuit users suck as Scizor and Ttar which Espeon really hates, as pursuit trappers is a big problem for this set. Could also come in handy sometime if there is a shadowtag pokemon or you're trapped or something. Then an attacking move of choice.
Espeon @ Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp / 4 SpA
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Psychic/Psyshock/Dazzling Gleam
- Baton pass
As it was used in gen 5. Timid and max speed to make sure it sets up its screen first, max hp for bulk, and baton pass to avoid pursuit users suck as Scizor and Ttar which Espeon really hates, as pursuit trappers is a big problem for this set. Could also come in handy sometime if there is a shadowtag pokemon or you're trapped or something. Then an attacking move of choice.
I'm surprised people don't think a Calm Mind set takes advantage of Magic Bounce. IMO it does a better job of it than screens Espeon. Magic Bounce combined with Morning Sun gives Espeon great opportunities to set up, and with its huge offensive stats, Calm Mind makes it even more deadly.
Alright, having used Espeon on pretty much every variation of my main team (~1600s), here are my two cents on her.
Espeon is a nice, relieving pokemon to have in certain situations, but in general isn't very necessary. She's quite versatile, but is pretty overshadowed in each of the roles she can dip in. However, if you prefer to use pokemon you truly like rather than selling your soul for Aegislash (no offense to Aegislash lovers), then I recommend the standard Calm Mind/Life Orb set.
She's best used as a jack-of-all-trades pokemon on HO teams. Here are some reasons to use it:
Despite all that though, she's mediocre. She's too frail to have decent switch-in opportunities and lacks the offensive pressure to make up for it. Magic Bounce is a nice ability, but in the end, there is a reason why she was NU before she got the ability. I'll still always use her though. Cats are my shit.
Espeon is a nice, relieving pokemon to have in certain situations, but in general isn't very necessary. She's quite versatile, but is pretty overshadowed in each of the roles she can dip in. However, if you prefer to use pokemon you truly like rather than selling your soul for Aegislash (no offense to Aegislash lovers), then I recommend the standard Calm Mind/Life Orb set.
She's best used as a jack-of-all-trades pokemon on HO teams. Here are some reasons to use it:
- Keeps your side clear of Sticky Web. I never run defog on HO, and webs are the bane of offensive teams. Espeon pretty much counters any Sticky Web user. Even against Galvantula, lead with a fast U-Turner or a Fake Out user to break sash, switch into Espeon, live a Bug Buzz if he predicts the switch, and kill it. Can still deflect SR if you're lucky to not facecheck a Gyro Ball, although SR isn't that huge of a problem imo unless you're running Zard Y or Dragonite.
- Maintains momentum against sleep inducers. If the enemy gets a good switch into Breloom or Megasaur, Espeon can deal with them. Worst case, it's worth imo to sack Espeon to keep one of your sweepers awake while dealing enough damage for the enemy poke to be revenge killed.
- Still has rather good offensive pressure. Espeon sits at a really good speed tier, and while her movepool isn't amazing, she has coverage where she needs it. Dazzling Gleam kills dragons, all of which she outspeeds. Psyshock shits on Chansey/Blissey (if they wanna Softboil stall, 2 CM boosted Psyshocks will OHKO Chansey), and Shadow Ball threatens Gengar/Lati/other psychics.
- Also, do NOT run HP fire. It leaves you with 30 speed IV's which is really important to speed tie other base 110s in dire situations. Espeon switch into steel SR setters is so obvious that you will more than likely facetank a Gyro Ball for no reason. Plus gen VI has brought more tools to deal with Steel walls.
- Lastly, she's essential for Baton Pass teams...if you're one of those people.
Despite all that though, she's mediocre. She's too frail to have decent switch-in opportunities and lacks the offensive pressure to make up for it. Magic Bounce is a nice ability, but in the end, there is a reason why she was NU before she got the ability. I'll still always use her though. Cats are my shit.
Too many things can 1-2HKO it. It's hard to set up properly
Wow I can't believe I never tried this before. So the main issue I have with Espeon is that it is too frail and is out sped + OHKO'd by other special sweepers. It is great to bring it in to bounce hazards, wall Smeargle, attempt to counter Mega Venusaur (Mega Venusaur's Sludge Bomb does almost 50% to regular 4 HP Espeon), but you always risk getting hit hard by an attack. Focus Sash is 50/50 because there is a chance you will get hit on the switch, rocks might already be up, Sandstorm, or scald will happen to burn you.
Espeon @ ASSAULT VEST!
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Future Sight/or whatever coverage you may want
Feel free to play around with the EV spread and let me know if something works better. Espeon is already fairly quick but not quick enough to out speed some of it's counters or even survive hits from the very thing it is trying to counter, that is why I didn't bother putting EVs into speed. Here are some calcs and so far it is doing very well as a Special Wall that forces things out. And by the way, Future Sight is replaceable, I like it because people usually switch out from Espeon and it gives me a chance to get the momentum back due to the threat of a potential double hit (FS is 120 BP) in 2 turns.
Gengar Shadow Ball 43.1 - 50.8%
Greninja Dark Pulse 47.6 - 56.8%
Keldo Hydro Pump 44 - 52%
Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast 51.1 - 60.4%
Heatran Lava Plume 17.9 - 21.5%
Latios Draco Meteor 45.5 - 53.5%
Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb 25.1 - 29.9%
Mega Gardevoir 34.1 - 40.7%
Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball 35.9 - 42.5%
Mega Houndoom Dark Pulse 45.5 - 53.8%
Kyurem B Fusion Bolt 60.4 - 71.2%
Manaphy +3 SAtk Surf 50.2 - 59.2%
Rotom W Hydro Pump 20 - 24.2%
Hydreigon Dark Pulse 41.9 - 50.2%
Chandelure Shadow Ball 46.7 - 55.6%
Special Thundurs/Landorus can barely break 40% damage
As you can see, a lot of OHKOs have now become nearly 3HKOs while allowing Espeon to OHKO or 2HKO back. This brings more opportunities to bring Espeon in while giving it some staying power to fire off a few attacks before it goes down or switches out. Of course, physical threats are still a problem and this Espeon doesn't hit as hard, but still hard enough to get 2HKOs. And let's face it, there weren't too many things 252 SAtk Espeon could OHKO on it's own anyway.
I have no checked speed calcs to see if a few points in speed are worth it or not, if anyone knows, please feel free to share.
Espeon @ ASSAULT VEST!
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Future Sight/or whatever coverage you may want
Feel free to play around with the EV spread and let me know if something works better. Espeon is already fairly quick but not quick enough to out speed some of it's counters or even survive hits from the very thing it is trying to counter, that is why I didn't bother putting EVs into speed. Here are some calcs and so far it is doing very well as a Special Wall that forces things out. And by the way, Future Sight is replaceable, I like it because people usually switch out from Espeon and it gives me a chance to get the momentum back due to the threat of a potential double hit (FS is 120 BP) in 2 turns.
Gengar Shadow Ball 43.1 - 50.8%
Greninja Dark Pulse 47.6 - 56.8%
Keldo Hydro Pump 44 - 52%
Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast 51.1 - 60.4%
Heatran Lava Plume 17.9 - 21.5%
Latios Draco Meteor 45.5 - 53.5%
Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb 25.1 - 29.9%
Mega Gardevoir 34.1 - 40.7%
Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball 35.9 - 42.5%
Mega Houndoom Dark Pulse 45.5 - 53.8%
Kyurem B Fusion Bolt 60.4 - 71.2%
Manaphy +3 SAtk Surf 50.2 - 59.2%
Rotom W Hydro Pump 20 - 24.2%
Hydreigon Dark Pulse 41.9 - 50.2%
Chandelure Shadow Ball 46.7 - 55.6%
Special Thundurs/Landorus can barely break 40% damage
As you can see, a lot of OHKOs have now become nearly 3HKOs while allowing Espeon to OHKO or 2HKO back. This brings more opportunities to bring Espeon in while giving it some staying power to fire off a few attacks before it goes down or switches out. Of course, physical threats are still a problem and this Espeon doesn't hit as hard, but still hard enough to get 2HKOs. And let's face it, there weren't too many things 252 SAtk Espeon could OHKO on it's own anyway.
I have no checked speed calcs to see if a few points in speed are worth it or not, if anyone knows, please feel free to share.
You can pretty much run the same set on Latios with better bulk and coverage options, so I'd have to say yes.
But latios lacks the magic bounce, that i find vital for the role i assign espeon usually
I think Baton Pass would be better, over Trick. Let's it act like a VoltTurner.
Isn't OU's current meta a bit too fast for that kind of set on this pokemon?
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