Urkerab is MAGIC!...al.
as for why they don't like it...
"rip my haunter with eviolite"
"Now I have to use wailord instead of Wailmer in EST"
Probably among other internal reasons, not everyone gave specific reasons
I do. What about that, huh?
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EXTREME Tier Shift
- Thread starter Klang
- Start date
as for why they don't like it...
"rip my haunter with eviolite"
"Now I have to use wailord instead of Wailmer in EST"
Probably among other internal reasons, not everyone gave specific reasons
I do, though, so it isn't unanimous. It wasn't *that* one sided.
Eviolite was really cancerous.
Edit: Sorta ninja'd by Stocke
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EV
Banned deucer.
The metagame was never about making LC Pokemon competitive with Ubers Pokemon.
If you need a Primal Groudon counter, look no further than Solrock.
I'm really, really happy about eviolite ban. One of the things that concerns me in this meta is that 150+ defense mons are able to hold eviolite. Real good decision by Eevee General here.
Btw, Zangoose is a lord. 120 Speed, EXTREMELY powerful. Toxic Boost means immune to burn.
Quick Feet Ursaring:
252 Atk Ursaring (170 Attack) Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire (125 HP, 115 Def) : 184-217 (40.5 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Zangoose:
252 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose (145 Attack) Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire (125 HP, 115 Def): 244-288 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It 2HKOs Quagsire, which Quick Feet Ursaring can't (unless you use Guts, but you really need Speed for Ursaring).
Btw, Zangoose is a lord. 120 Speed, EXTREMELY powerful. Toxic Boost means immune to burn.
Quick Feet Ursaring:
252 Atk Ursaring (170 Attack) Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire (125 HP, 115 Def) : 184-217 (40.5 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Zangoose:
252 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose (145 Attack) Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire (125 HP, 115 Def): 244-288 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It 2HKOs Quagsire, which Quick Feet Ursaring can't (unless you use Guts, but you really need Speed for Ursaring).
Some mons that will be affected by this ban:
Dusclops: Its ridiculous stats of 80/170/170 are now a little more manageable and its lack of access to reliable recovery will be more of a nuisance.
Scyther: While it will still be viable as its defensive stats are still good, it will be harder to set up SD.
Roselia: Roselia is VERY hurt by this ban, as it somewhat relied on its eviolite for bulk.
Croconaw: Will be harder to set up DDs.
Honedge: Will be harder to set up SDs and check physical attackers.
Misdreavus: Previously Mis was a cool pokemon with good support options, bulk, speed and attack, but now alot of its bulk has been stripped away, making it less effective.
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I'm fairly new to this meta, and i don't know if it's been mentioned before but hoopa is looking pretty nice right now
To me, hoopa looks like a better version of chandelure
Hoopa @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic/Hyperspace Hole/Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Trick
INB4 ppl come screaming at me telling me hyperspace hole is bad, I know it is, but I like the gimmick so I'm gonna use it. base 170 is no number to laugh at, shadow ball and psychic/psyshock have perfect neutral coverage, barring dark, which focus blast is for. Trick can allow for walls to get heavily crippled, then somebody's gonna catch the finest of STAB shadow balls. The obviously glaring problem however, is it's weakness to dark, specifically pursuit trapping. I don't really know how to combat this besides a kamikaze trick to lock the opponent into pursuit, but that can only do so much.(give honest feedback on this set, this is my first time doing this)
To me, hoopa looks like a better version of chandelure
Hoopa @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic/Hyperspace Hole/Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Trick
INB4 ppl come screaming at me telling me hyperspace hole is bad, I know it is, but I like the gimmick so I'm gonna use it. base 170 is no number to laugh at, shadow ball and psychic/psyshock have perfect neutral coverage, barring dark, which focus blast is for. Trick can allow for walls to get heavily crippled, then somebody's gonna catch the finest of STAB shadow balls. The obviously glaring problem however, is it's weakness to dark, specifically pursuit trapping. I don't really know how to combat this besides a kamikaze trick to lock the opponent into pursuit, but that can only do so much.(give honest feedback on this set, this is my first time doing this)
Not sure if there's a set file somewhere, but i'd say now that this is OMotM (!!) TI could add a .ets command to his bot
Yaaaaaay OMotM n_n
On a more meta-related note, most of the teams I've seen so far are still very weak to traditional Ubers like Groudon or Ho-Oh and Solrock should definitely be used more due to it taking on the entire physical S-Rank in Ubers (Arceus a bit shaky, especially when checking Ho-Oh from the same team) which is pretty impressive and it still has Rocks and fairly reliable Recovery. Maybe with an official ladder, the meta will develope a bit further and drift away from those full-PU teams running around. I'm really looking froward to seeing a real metagame rise from this. Also, Pikachu is everywhere :o
On a more meta-related note, most of the teams I've seen so far are still very weak to traditional Ubers like Groudon or Ho-Oh and Solrock should definitely be used more due to it taking on the entire physical S-Rank in Ubers (Arceus a bit shaky, especially when checking Ho-Oh from the same team) which is pretty impressive and it still has Rocks and fairly reliable Recovery. Maybe with an official ladder, the meta will develope a bit further and drift away from those full-PU teams running around. I'm really looking froward to seeing a real metagame rise from this. Also, Pikachu is everywhere :o
But why play ets if your not going to use the thing ets adds? Also where are you playing, I want to fight bad pokes like pikachu :(
Only one line above I outlined how good solrock is ._. I'm just saying that new toy syndrome lets people forget about just how good some Ubers are but maybe they just don't wanna see it... And I understand that the main appeal of this meta is that you can use your favourite mon that crumbles in PU and lead it to success with newfound good stats.
I've said that before and I still think that Primal Groudon is the best mon in the metagame, even though its checks got better. It is a Ubers metagame after all and its hard to match the strength and utility of the likes of Xerneas and Mega Mence.
Golem @ Weakness Policy / Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish / Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch / Explosion
Soo, Golem 120 HP/160 Atk/170 Def/95 SpA/105 SpD/85 Speed...
That's Crazy, with a Pokémon who can run Sand Stream in your Team, that's turn a MUCH BULK SWEEPER
252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
THE HAX BEGIN
He can run SR and Explosion for other sets using custap berry
Is DeepSeaTooth supposed to be alowed? Clamperl stats are 75/104/125/114/95/72, and after a Shell Smash it 2HKO'es Blissey, OHKOes PGroudon (with good SpD investment) after Rocks. DeepSeaTooth acts like Huge/Pure Power, but Clamperl's SpA is higher than the attack of any H/P Power mon. If eviolite is banned, I think this should be banned too. Edit: why is Chatter allowed too? Chatot is PU, so it got a big buff, pretty annoying mon.
Clamperl has no priority and can't hold Sash or White Herb, so it has a sufficient amount of problems to not be broken. A lot of Pokemon that check it have also risen in effectiveness -- Mantine comes to mind, but there are probably more. Pretty sure Primal Kyogre can tank any hit and kill with Thunder, too.
Buffed Chatot is always a problem, though. As an Ubers based meta, I'd be skeptical of banning it outright, but it's still really annoying so I'd keep an eye on it.
Buffed Chatot is always a problem, though. As an Ubers based meta, I'd be skeptical of banning it outright, but it's still really annoying so I'd keep an eye on it.
It isn't really as much of problem as it could be, though, because chatter is banned from PU. If you want the +40 its only for nasty plot Boomburst, and if you go with chatter its a mere +30 to all stats. +30 might still be annoying, but its notably slower than uber's haxiest pokemon, Shaymin-S, as well as half a dozen meta relevant pokemon such as Mewtwo and Darkrai. I'm not saying it'll be bad (because it probably wont), but it isn't quite as good as it looks.
It can survive a support PGroudon EQ after Shell Smash, and all it needs to sweep through most teams is rocks and one spike. Priority is definitely a problem, but I'm mainly talking about how it affects defensive team. Here are some amazing calcs:
0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Clamperl: 225-265 (77.3 - 91%)
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre in Heavy Rain: 292-344 (76 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 424-499 (59.3 - 69.8%) - guaranteed 2HKO.
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 221-261 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.
It obviously doesn't need to OHKO every mon in the game to be broken. After one shell smash, it hits harder than Manaphy after 2 tail glows, and with a good water typing, and decent 75/125/95 bulk, it can set up pretty easily against most defensive teams.
0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Clamperl: 225-265 (77.3 - 91%)
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre in Heavy Rain: 292-344 (76 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 424-499 (59.3 - 69.8%) - guaranteed 2HKO.
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 221-261 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.
It obviously doesn't need to OHKO every mon in the game to be broken. After one shell smash, it hits harder than Manaphy after 2 tail glows, and with a good water typing, and decent 75/125/95 bulk, it can set up pretty easily against most defensive teams.
I'd agree with you if this weren't Ubers (where nothing can truly check anything else) and also if you'd actually found Clamperl too powerful via experience on the ladder. There is no ladder, so there's no reason to ban Deep Sea Tooth. Come back in a few days to make the same argument and I'll probably find it more convincing -- calcs don't mean much on their own.
As for why Eviolite was banned and other exclusive items weren't, I think it had more to do with making the metagame as a whole less unbreakable-wall-oriented and less to do with the item being broken in itself. Same reason why Middle Cup doesn't allow it and LC didn't allow it until this gen iirc.
As for why Eviolite was banned and other exclusive items weren't, I think it had more to do with making the metagame as a whole less unbreakable-wall-oriented and less to do with the item being broken in itself. Same reason why Middle Cup doesn't allow it and LC didn't allow it until this gen iirc.
"if you'd actually found Clamperl too powerful via experience on the ladder" - I was trying out a defensive team on rom and Clamperl completely destroyed it. I'm pretty sure once ETS gets its ladder on Showdown and people realize that Clamperl + some support just breaks through most defensive teams, that Clamperl is like a Huge Power mon with 114 Atk, decent bulk and Ability to boost Speed and Attack by two stages in one turn, then it's obviously going to be banned imo (DeepSeaTooth, that is). But for now, I agree we should wait for more replays and usage to decide how healthy DeepSeaTooth is for the metagame.
Thank you to "The Guy Who Has Many Alts" for bringing up Toxic Orb Ursaring and "Pika Xtreme" for bringing up Beheeyem. I suggested both of them ages ago, to little avail.
Ursaring @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts / Quick Feet
New stats (PU): 130/170/115/115/115/95
IVs, EVs, Nature: 31's, 252 Atk/252 somewhere/4 somewhere, Adamant/Jolly
- Facade
- Crunch
- Close Combat / Earthquake
- Protect / Swords Dance
STAB and status Facade, Crunch, and either Close Combat or Earthquake hits ... everything. Protect to avoid an attack, or Swords Dance to make the angry bear's power even more insane.
Beheeyem @ Life Orb
New stats (PU): 115/115/115/165/135/80
Ability: Analytic
IV's: 0 Attack, 0 Speed, 31's elsewhere
EV's: 252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Defense
Nature: Quiet or Modest
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball / Signal Beam
- Thunderbolt [HP Fighting or Ground could go here for Steels, but ... ]
- Recover
Base 165 Sp.Attack boosted by Life Orb and often Analytic as well, with this sort of bulk, and reliable healing? Should get more respect.
Ursaring @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts / Quick Feet
New stats (PU): 130/170/115/115/115/95
IVs, EVs, Nature: 31's, 252 Atk/252 somewhere/4 somewhere, Adamant/Jolly
- Facade
- Crunch
- Close Combat / Earthquake
- Protect / Swords Dance
STAB and status Facade, Crunch, and either Close Combat or Earthquake hits ... everything. Protect to avoid an attack, or Swords Dance to make the angry bear's power even more insane.
Beheeyem @ Life Orb
New stats (PU): 115/115/115/165/135/80
Ability: Analytic
IV's: 0 Attack, 0 Speed, 31's elsewhere
EV's: 252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Defense
Nature: Quiet or Modest
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball / Signal Beam
- Thunderbolt [HP Fighting or Ground could go here for Steels, but ... ]
- Recover
Base 165 Sp.Attack boosted by Life Orb and often Analytic as well, with this sort of bulk, and reliable healing? Should get more respect.
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Gothitelle, ninetales, politoed, and wobbuffet are PU, but there abilities are only alowed in ou/ubers. Does that mean if they have the good abilities they don't get boosted, or do they still count as PU?
Also, if a pokemon is PU, but the mega version is OU, then does it get the OU boost or the PU boost? Or is it when it's not mega it gets the boost, and as soon as it mega evolves it looses the boost. If that's the case then the only super viable pokemon would be steelix and mega audino from how I see it.
Also, if a pokemon is PU, but the mega version is OU, then does it get the OU boost or the PU boost? Or is it when it's not mega it gets the boost, and as soon as it mega evolves it looses the boost. If that's the case then the only super viable pokemon would be steelix and mega audino from how I see it.
In the Q&A of the OM is
Q: How do boosts apply to Mega Pokemon?
A: The boosts apply to the tier where the mega form is ranked. Gyarados holding a mega stone will receive OU boosts (+0) but Gyarados not holding a stone receives UU boosts (+10).
Q: What about tiered abilities, such as Drizzle and Drought?
A: Similarly to mega stones, tiered abilities affect the Pokemon's boosts depending on where its ranked. Politoed with Drizzle (a BL ability) receives OU boosts (+0) but Politoed with another ability receives PU boosts (+40).
Why not energy ball?