vonFiedler
I Like Chopin
On the contrary, it shouldn't mean anything. It would be very logical given the circumstances to distance oneself from HD, and besides which Mithril only recently joined us. I can already see a lot of WIFOM arguments involving what the flip does and doesn't do, and the discussion is good (good god can we please actually discuss this one), but try to keep some perspective.Based on HD’s flip, I think it’s safe to say that ButteredToast, vonFiedler, Mithril, and PokeguyNXB are not mafia. The first three because they were consistently supportive of an HD lynch throughout the day, and Pokeguy because he was HD’s “top scum read” and one of the other viable lynch options yesterday.
For instance, HD voting for Jalmont a long time in Day 1 means nothing. It would be a pretty simple trick to have a vote on a teammate who isn't gonna get lynched so that someone can look back and point this out later.
For instance, BT ultimately got HD lynched through a massive post, but he quoted that post and almost everyone missed it. If HD wasn't lynched that day, but was lynched later, couldn't BT have been like "look at this massive post that no one noticed, I sure helped didn't I?"
For instance, I was always in favor of lynching HD, but on the actual day he stood a chance of lynching, was he ever my primary target? And I reposted BT's post, but if no one bothered to read it the first time, maybe no one would again.
These are all WIFOM arguments, so I don't want to see people getting their knickers in a twist to defend themselves. They are merely possibilities that prove that "X voted for Y, they must be town" is no substitute for thorough and careful analysis of behavioral patterns.
And the fact that above all else, you almost certainly aren't mafia due to the HD flip, does not mean that you aren't Courier. Hell, HD suspected that you were (I did too, for the record, not gonna hide that). So you're pretty certain that they killed you because they rolecopped you, however, what sense does that make? How could they possibly think you weren't vanilla from your rolename in a themed game? Is your rolename extra special, because I notice you didn't claim IT.This doesn’t mean then any of the above players can’t be the Courier.
Since the mafia already knows this, there's no reason not to make this public: I was the BPV and the Legion targeted me with a kill last night, which is why there were no deaths. More Cowbell am I allowed to quote night results? I think I was rolename inspected by HD's role N1 and they saw that I wasn't a vanilla so tried to kill me. Heh they suck.
There are a myriad of reasons that the mafia might have wanted you killed. For instance, if Fatecrashers isn't one of them, killing you could have easily incriminated him. Honestly, with the crazy amount of tunneling you've had on Fate, one might suspect that you're our inspector. And that'd be a win/win. Or maybe they just banked on you not being BG'd. ButteredToast ultimately pulled through and got HD lynched, so he would have been a good BG target. I was almost universally at the top of town read lists, so I could have been BG'd. You might have just been someone they suspected wouldn't be.
And yet you assume this convoluted scenario where they checked you, said "ah, he's not vanilla, not sure how we know this though", and then killed you.
I want people to imagine a hypothetical scenario here: Spiffy is the Courier. BPV is not an uncommon village role in NOC, but it's a very common Wolf tool on Smogon. Over the course of Day 2, he sees not 1 but 2 players that he has suspected to be mafia suggest that he is the Courier, so now he's sweating. Role cop flips, and everything starts to make sense. All of our village role names aren't going to reveal a whole lot, but he'd show up as The Courier. Then his BPV pops, and he thinks he knows why. And since it's no skin off his back if Fate is incriminated, why not run with it? So he posts this story almost exactly, only he can't be Courier, so he replaces it with "not vanilla". Only that stops making sense. And while it seems like the Courier might not have a kill, or maybe it's contingent or limited, why would the host tell the village BPV that the legion tried to kill them? Wouldn't that always be "someone tried to kill you"? At the very least if he's village, since if he's correct this reveals some important information about our neutral. But if he's Courier, then obv the Courier didn't try to kill him, hence the Legion did.
But this is such a well established "mistake" that you have gotten on my ass multiple times for calling it a lie when it was "only a mistake". But if it is "only a mistake", then why are you still lying about it? ButteredToast, did you ever actually point this out or is Spiffy making that up too?This along with the other connections between Fate and HD that ButteredToast and I have pointed out makes it a no brainer to lynch Fatecrashers.
On another note, I actually agree with Serious Bananas as well. Moreover, it is time for the oil to separate from the water, as I've said. I want to see sunny004 be much more active and helpful today, now that we have things to actually talk about. And I want him to address the voting patterns that Bananas brought up.
It's not like I don't want to see more from PokeguyNXB as well, just that I feel like Sunny has to defend himself over this.