This is a thread to discuss florges use in the OU metagame. It isn't here to showcase your personal experiences rather to come to a collective agreement among many players. The reason there is "hate" towards florges is that Sylveon or clefable can do everything better than florges. Hate is a terrible word to describe it. You seem offended that one of your favorites isn't being used much in higher tiers. Lots of things can sweep teams if your opponent is dumb enough to let it set up and not have something to check or phase it out. Heck, I've seen even magikarp and sunkern sweep unprepared teams. My point is that your teams should be built around defeating good opponents rather than poor ones and A good player seeing florges in team preview will probably breathe a big sigh of relief because it gives him a better chance of winning.
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Pokémon Florges
- Thread starter GSP
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If you're using team preview, you're using the cart. Therefore, you're extremely unlikely to have, or see, a Sylveon that has Pixilate, Heal Bell, or Hyper Voice. I breathe a sigh of relief when I see Sylveon on the cart because Sylveon can't tank Toxic yet, and I use Florges because I can breed one with excellent IVs and get all the necessary moves through level-up and TMs.
Clefable really doesn't come into the discussion except as just another pure-Fairy. It has different stats and a different niche; it's much more of a bulky attacker than a cleric. It can heal itself and is immune to residual damage, but it's not nearly as much of a team supporter as Florges and Sylveon.
Clefable really doesn't come into the discussion except as just another pure-Fairy. It has different stats and a different niche; it's much more of a bulky attacker than a cleric. It can heal itself and is immune to residual damage, but it's not nearly as much of a team supporter as Florges and Sylveon.
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But this thread is for discussing OU played on simulators like PO and PS, which also have a team preview.
Most arguments I've seen here regarding florges are bad, but it's still an extremely viable cleric in OU.
Florges@ Leftovers
EVs: 252HP 252SDEF
. Moonblast
. Wish
. Protect
. HealBell
That thing is a pain to take down.
Obviously it can't take physical hits well, but I've had success with it.
As for the tiering, I don't really care. Even if it's NU, it can be used on every upper tier
Florges@ Leftovers
EVs: 252HP 252SDEF
. Moonblast
. Wish
. Protect
. HealBell
That thing is a pain to take down.
Obviously it can't take physical hits well, but I've had success with it.
As for the tiering, I don't really care. Even if it's NU, it can be used on every upper tier
Sylveon@ Leftovers
Trait: Pixilate
Evs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Nature: Bold
-Hyper Voice
-Wish
-Protect
-Heal Bell
Sylveon can do whatever Florges can do better, so why would you ever use that set? Because there's no reason to use it over Sylveon, it isn't viable at all. There's difference between viable and good. While Florges isn't terrible by itself, it isn't viable because there are better options.
Now do that ingame if you don't have a Japanese 3DS/account. That (and not being furry bait) is the only thing Florges has over Sylveon.
This thread is assuming that you're playing on the showdown simulator, not cartridge.
If simulators don't play with the same rules as the cartridge, they're bad simulators. They should run at the standard that all cartridge games from the past 2 generations play; all monsters are dropped to lv50 if they are higher, and Item Clause is in effect. But, Smogon won't do that despite being more accurate because they pander to a bunch of elitists who think that a monster is bad if it has 10 less HP on its Wishes.
To the players maximizing SpD on Florges, try 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA Bold. It seems to work a lot better for me; uninvested Florges still has ~180 SpD at lv50, and I can tank physical hits a lot better if I still have some things to do.
In addition, you seem to be neglecting the thing that Moonblast has over Hyper Voice. A 30% chance to lower the opponent's Special Attack. This is the same chance that Scald has to Burn (lower Physical Attack). Do you run Scald or Hydro Pump on a defensive Water-type?
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So basically this thread is 30% people talking about Florges and 70% of people talking about Sylveon being better. Okay.
Basically, if you look at Florges's abilities you can instantly tell it's designed for doubles play, not singles. It is slightly outshone by Sylveon in singles but it is far and away the better Pokemon in Doubles. In singles, the vast array of Grass moves Florges possesses it its only advantage over Sylveon (and these don't help much, if ever).
Basically this thread is now about as useful as a discussion on the viability of Splash.
Basically, if you look at Florges's abilities you can instantly tell it's designed for doubles play, not singles. It is slightly outshone by Sylveon in singles but it is far and away the better Pokemon in Doubles. In singles, the vast array of Grass moves Florges possesses it its only advantage over Sylveon (and these don't help much, if ever).
Basically this thread is now about as useful as a discussion on the viability of Splash.
Pokebank was already released, for however small the time it was up, it was still available. Before it was taken down many players managed to get their past gen mons there and figure out what new things they learn (for example, now we know that entei can learn sacred fire through the move relearner) and things such as heal bell sylveon became possible.
That's because that's all the elitists who think that they should get benefits for owning games that are 10 years old are doing, when others are trying to actually talk about Florges.
No one is being an elitist. No one is getting benefits from keeping 10 year old games. Thats the entire point of simulators: to allow everyone to have access to the same things. Why we're saying Florges isn't viable at all is because this is in the competitive section of the Smogon forums, and although Florges isn't bad by itself, there's almost no reason to use Florges competitively at all.
If you want to play with level 50 mons and item clause, why are you on the Smogon forums? If you don't like Smogon rules, play cartridge, which is fine.
Moreover, this forum has his own subforum dedicated to the cartridge Battle Spot, go here on arguing that Florges is more viable than Sylveon because her moves are more accessible(and, I have to say, is really pathetic that a Pokémon can distinguish itself from another only because it's easier to obtain and breed).
It's really pathetic that you think that every player should have all the games from every single generation, along with 5 consoles to play them on (2 DSs, 2 3DSs, and a GameCube)
In the Battle Spot case, Sylveon cannot have good IVs unless you cheat by RNG manipulation (which is only a passable practice because your community can't accept not having 100% perfect everything), or you forgo Hyper Voice and Heal Bell. Therefore, Florges will likely have much better stats; Sylveon can only pick and choose 2-3 stats to be perfect in (likely HP and a Defense, and hope that the other Defense stat is randomly a good IV either by being the third passed IV from presumably perfect parents which are just as hard to get or the 1/32 chance), and there's no easy way to verify it without using an external tool like Pokegen (which is also cheating).
In the simulator case, it's kinda pointless to argue with you guys since you think that the simulator is the One True Meta rather than using the games as a base point. The simulator should, in the case of sets that can only be obtained from previous generations (and monsters that cannot be bred in general), literally randomize IVs, except a single IV which is presumed perfect via breeding with a Power item (the other being Everstone). This way, it imitates the games instead of making you think of ways to make the games imitate your sims.
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The simulator is the One True Meta for all purposes in this forum. If you want to discuss any other meta, go somewhere else.
RNG manipulation is simply predicting variables. There are no cheating devices used, only an RNG reporter program and a DS system. Everyone uses RNG, especially all those Japanese players. Where do you think they get their perfect stuff?
If you don't like our methods, get out of our forum.
Also, you can WiFi trade--a flawless Pixilate Sylveon with past gen tutor moves could be traded for one of your 6 IV Shiny Honedges. Yes, I know people that have 2-3 boxes of those things. I must say I preferred previous generations when it came to breeding, but I don't have Pokebank access.
The cartridge allows players to use Double Team, put entire teams to sleep with Spore, and doesn't stop players from using ridiculous Ubers on their teams (in passerby/friend battles) aside from an honor system as well as allows ridiculous game centralizing/breaking pokemon like Blaziken,M-Kangaskhan, and M-Gengar.
Which one sounds better to use?
Dropping to level 50 and a stupid Item Clause is insignificant compared to those two and we're not elitist just because we think Florges is Outclassed by Sylveon. Face facts. Outside of Doubles there is nothing Florges does better than Sylveon. Oh and by the way, 10 HP can mean the difference between a OHKO/2HKO.
Moonblast can lower Sp.A but can be gotten rid of by just switching out. It also has no value on anything that isn't a special attack. Hyper Voice can also go through Substitute.
Scald leaves a Burn which even if you are a Special Attacker, you'll be taking residual damage and cannot be gotten rid of by switching out except in special situations.
You just started the RNG manipulating cheaters (who likely also use Pokegen when they can't manipulate) saying that Smogon is the only thing that should ever exist and that simulators > the actual game.
I am not surprised. I still remember the level 50 cap thread. That one was worse compared to this.
Honestly, the fact that Smogon is staying at lv100 despite the game being lv50 for the past 2 generations just shows how outdated and unwilling to accept change they are. Remember, they initially failed to catch M-Kangaskahn as a suspect due to the simulator being glitched despite it rather obviously being extremely overpowered on the cart?
As far as the cartridges allowing Ubers and DTeam and crap like that: You could always run it like it ran before you simulated everything: an honor system and reporting people who break the pre-declared clauses. The simulator, in making moves fail when they would break a clause and following Smogon's bans to the letter, made the community worse by removing the need to be honorable.
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This thread is terrible. It contains anything but competitive discussion about Florges's use in OU (bad sets, overdone comparisons between other Fairies, sets for other metagames). There really is no point in leaving it open, as Sylveon almost completely outclasses it and the thread's overall quality is shit. If anyone wants to talk about Florges, do it here and here. Congrats to our first XY Pokemon thread that gets locked!
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