Flygon (Screech)

[Eggbert]

Screeching Flygon

[SET]
name: Screech
move 1: Screech
move 2: U-Turn / Substitute
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Dragon Claw / Stone Edge
item: Life Orb
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although denied the powerful boosting moves that its Dragon-type cousins have access to, Flygon can cause mayhem through the use of Screech. With its multitude of resistances, including immunities to popular Electric- and Ground-type attacks, and threatening STABs, Flygon can easily force switches and hit the incoming opponent with Screech. With their Defense slashed, even bulkier foes whom Flygon could never dream of taking on with its other movesets are KOed by the correct move (with enough entry hazard support). Suicune, Gliscor, and Gyarados are just a few of the victims who would normally wall the common Flygon. This confronts opponents with a dilemma: stay in and lose a Pokemon, or switch out and allow Flygon to rack up even more residual damage with entry hazards and U-turn (or potentially set up Substitute).</p>

<p>Screech is the key to this set, allowing Flygon to KO bulkier foes and force switches, which can be taken advantage of with U-turn. U-turn also does respectable damage to bulky Grass-types, such as Celebi and Shaymin, who resist Earthquake. As Outrage's lock-in side effect counteracts the goal of this set, Earthquake is Flygon's strongest STAB move against most grounded foes. The last moveslot depends on what the rest of the team has issues with. Dragon Claw gets STAB, and hits foes like Gliscor and opposing Dragon-types, who would otherwise wall this set. On the other hand, Stone Edge gets great coverage alongside Earthquake, and easily takes care of Gyarados and Zapdos, who are only 2HKOed by Dragon Claw. Substitute is an option over U-turn to more directly take advantage of switches, but with Life Orb recoil added into the mix, Flygon will lose health rather quickly. Life Orb is necessary to achieve many KOs, especially on bulky threats.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Here are some damage calculations to demonstrate how hard this set hits after the opposing Pokemon's Defense has been slashed by Screech:</p>

<ul class="damage calculations">
</li>Stone Edge vs. Physically Defensive Zapdos: 100.8% - 119.1% (OHKO)</li>
<li>Stone Edge (-1) vs. Bulky Gyarados: 91.9% - 108.6% (OHKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
<li>Earthquake vs. Tank Swampert: 70.3% - 83% (OHKO with Stealth Rock and three layers of Spikes.)</li>
<li>Earthquake vs. Offensive Suicune: 91.5% - 108.2% (OHKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
<li>Earthquake vs. Wish Blissey: 89.9% - 105.9% (OHKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
<li>Earthquake vs. Wish Vaporeon: 77.7% - 91.7% (OHKO with Stealth Rock and two layers of Spikes)</li>
<li>Earthquake vs. Hippowdon: 58.6% - 68.8% (2HKO)</li>
<li>U-Turn vs. Physically Defensive Celebi: 120.8% - 142.6% (OHKO)</li>
<li>Dragon Claw vs. Defensive Rotom-A: 69.1% - 81.3% (2HKO) </li>
<li>Dragon Claw vs. Physically Defensive Celebi: 52% - 61.1% (2HKO)</li>
<li>Dragon Claw vs. Britscor: 72.3% - 85.6% (2HKO, good chance to OHKO after two rounds of Stealth Rock)</li>
</ul>

<p>Due to the rarity of this set, most opponents will not know how to respond and might lose several crucial team members, including strong defensive walls. With these threats defeated, powerful sweepers such as Metagross, Tyranitar, and Lucario can easily smash through the weakened team. If you feel that Flygon is a bit too fragile, then simply lower Flygon's Speed to different benchmarks and move the leftover EVs into HP to increase its overall bulk. Running 216 Speed EVs allows Flygon to surpass base 95 Pokemon such as Gliscor and Electivire, while 176 Speed EVs allows Flygon to beat neutral natured base 90 Pokemon, like Adamant Lucario.</p>

<p>This Flygon set strongly appreciates entry hazard support as it allows Flygon to secure several important KOs against bulkier foes. For this reason, utilizing Skarmory is recommended. Skarmory can switch into Dragon-type attacks aimed at Flygon with ease and set up Spikes, while Flygon can switch into Electric- and Fire-type attacks aimed at Skarmory. Vaporeon makes a great partner, especially if Substitute is being used. Vaporeon can heal Flygon with Wish, and utilize Roar to rack up entry hazard damage. Since entry hazards are being used, a Ghost-type like Rotom-A is required as well to block Rapid Spin.</p>

<p>Although Screech limits the amount of existing counters, there are still some problematic Pokemon. Skarmory takes little damage, even after a Screech or two, from Flygon and can set up on it or attack. Without Stone Edge, Gyarados may be able to sneak in a Dragon Dance, then outspeed and KO Flygon the next turn. Without Dragon Claw, Gliscor and opposing Dragon-types wall Flygon. In order to deal with these Pokemon, certain teammates should be employed; Heatran and Rotom-A can destroy Skarmory, while Vaporeon can beat Gliscor and Gyarados. Faster sweepers such as Gengar and Starmie are a menace to this set, as they can outspeed and deal heavy damage to Flygon. Starmie in particular is the bane of this set as it can either spin on or KO Flygon, making it hard to predict around it. Running a special wall such as Blissey or even Kingdra can stop Starmie.</p>

 

[Eggbert]

Actually I have been finding sub a worthy option here, so having a bulkier spread might help. The thing is, having 100 base speed means there is a lot to tie with, but it could be dropped to around 300 maybe to beat neutral base 100s. 319 beats gliscor. Substitute greatly takes advantage of the switches. From behind a sub, flygon can KO a frail attacker or screech a more defensive threat. Similar to yawn jolteon.

120 Hp/252 Atk/136 beats offensive suicune.
40/252/216 beats gliscor

 

[HART4FLOON]

IMHO, tying with other base 100's is pretty important. However, if you feel otherwise, then the speed EVs can be lowered to 216, which allows you to outspeed Max Speed+ Base 95's.

On another note, couldn't Screech just be mentioned in AC for the Physical Attacker set?

 

[Eggbert]

Substitute works a bit better than U-turn if you want flygon to really go offensive. This basically forces the opponent to give flygon free subs or lose their immediate pokemon. Screech can also screw over anything slow that flygon can't immediatly KO.

I've added the speed spreads too. Adamant with 80/252/176 is good with leftovers and sub to make up for the loss of life orb.

This set plays differently. It's about forcing switches, breaking walls, and racking up spikes damage. The teammates are somewhat different and the purpose is too. The core of the team is basically set too, skarmory is a good option for spikes, and rotom is needed to spin block. Vaporeon can check some problems for flygon.

 

[Chillarmy]

Uh...

Dragon Claw vs. Britscor: 72.3% - 85.6% If they switch out, Stealth Rock will almost always KO when they switch back.

85 + 12 =/= 100. Unless Gliscor lacks Leftovers, it can survive a second switch into SR

This set isn't bad, but I just have one question: Why isn't U-turn the main attack in the second slot or a slash at that? If the plan is to break walls and rack up damage, then Flygon would much better off tag teaming with something like ScarfZor in order to keep the momentum going with U-turn and trap stuff whenever the chance arises.

IMO, the set should look more like this:

[SET]
name: Screech
move 1: Screech
move 2: U-turn
move 3: Dragon Claw
move 4: Roost / Earthquake
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
nature: Jolly

Taking a more defensive approach with Screech is much better than relying on the opposing Pokemon to stay in and take the incoming hit. Earthquake, while powerful, is inferior Dragon Claw in terms of coverage, and Roost makes Flygon a complete prick to deal with, allowing it to switch in and out continuously and rack up damage with Screech + U-turn. 80 Speed EVs place Flygon right above Adamant Lucario, which is all it really needs to outpace; Flygon can't touch Gliscor without Screeching anyway and OffensiveCune can take an Earthquake at -2 Defense and OHKO with Ice Beam. The rest of the EVs should be invested into Flygon's defenses, because it's going to be switching in and out a lot. Luring out [Insert physical tank here] can be fun, but then this set will just be inferior to the special attacker already on-site.

 

[Megan_Fox]

The idea behind this set seems decent, I know there's similar sets onsite like MS Heatran and Zapdos. Ill test out both the set in the OP and the one Chillarmy posted. U-Turn does like it should be a main option though reguardless of whether your running an Offensive or Defensive Spread.

 

[Eggbert]

This set is very similar to MS heatran and dos. The reason why sub is important is that you can take advantage of the foes switching and gain free attacks on faster foes that are likely to take alot of damage, basically forcing the foe to give you free subs. I think using u-turn with a trapper like tyranitar or scarfzor is a good option too. I changed the OP to reflect this.

Earthquake is needed to beat suicune, swampert, blissey, and vaporeon. Gliscor takes 12.5 from switching into SR. If gliscor switches in again, it takes another 12.5. Dragon claw does 73% min. I'm leaving fire blast to teammates like heatran. Offensive suicune is OHKOd though... Running max speed is a big deal. If shaymin has HP fire, you can KO it. If it has HP ice, you can switch to skarmory.

I've been using Skarmory/Tyranitar/Rotom-h/Jirachi/Vaporeon/Flygon. I am still finding sub the most useful item, especially against things like rotom that try and wisp me. Even if I had roost, I rarely have time to use it. Having vaporeon in two makes it really easy to heal flygon. Just watch out for celebi leaf storms from the unexpected tinkerbell or predicted wows from rotom.

 

[zapper22001]

I really like the idea of this set. I wrote up part of the MS Heatran analysis so I can attest to the effectiveness of this strategy.

Agreeing with all others who are in favor or U-Turn as the main slash on the set. It keeps up the momentum on your team and abuses spikes better than Substitute. After a Screech, U-Turn also hits noticeably harder which is nice. Plus with Life Orb and Substitute, your health will be depleted very fast and you are wasting on of Flygon's best assets which is not taking much residual damage and being able to survive until late game. Also, the inclusion of Substitute on this set means that sometimes you need two turns to set up and since this set doesn't hit very hard and relies more on capitalizing on surprise value, Substitute doesn't seem to fit the set.

Although I haven't tested it yet, in theory, Expert Belt seems like a great item on this set. It lets you bluff a Choice set and then late game, you smack your weakened counter with a Screech and proceed to KO. To be honest, I just really like the idea of bluffing a Choice item so I guess Draco Plate or a resist berry or even Soft Sand could work.

Not too sure about the EV spread though. I need to test the set a few times before I can voice my opinion on it.

Also:

item: Life Orb/Substitute

Not sure if holding the TM Substitute is handy for this set...

 

[Eggbert]

Yea I'm still having trouble deciding what is better. I often find flygon using sub first, screeching the switch in, and then attacking. I use flygon with vappy so I can usually heal him several times. Without life orb, his attacks won't reach OHKOs. Expert belt works against gyarados and zapdos, but against bulky waters earthquake is needed to OHKO them. I doubt the somewhat gimmicky muscle band would work though. Running max speed helps against CMrachi alot, who sets up on vappy, but depending on the coverage moves used, the speed can be dropped (ie 219 with dragon claw to beat gliscor)

Also of note: This Flygon works really well with wish/cm Jirachi. Jirachi has perfect synergy with flygon and can easily pass wishes. Jirachi can beat enemy Skarmory with thunderbolt and Flygon can switch into most Heatran and Tyranitar with wish and set up. I still think sub is the best option. I faced a Gliscor/Vaporeon with my Flygon at 2-1. I was able to sub on Gliscor's toxic and screech the Vaporeon. They couldn't switch because Vaporeon was dying to hazards, and both are OHKO by either dragon claw or EQ at -2. Without up they could just switch around and let toxic damage ko.

Thanks, fixed that.

 

[Philip7086]

Interesting. Worth a test IMO. I'll report back w/ my results.

 

[NightShadow]

This is actually quite a good set. Those calcs are unbelievably impressive for a Poke with 100 base atk. i think u-turn should be the primary slash over sub. what is sub doing there anyway? U-turn can scout when a Poke that actually walls screech flygon comes in.

 

[Eggbert]

It may not look like it, but sub is very important. Against enemies like Rotom you can switch in on a t-bolt and sub against their will-o-wisp. At this point they will switch so you can screech the switch in and either KO them or have them switch and take more residual damage with flygon still safe behind a sub. I also find it the first move I use, because alot of times they will switch in Gengar looking to set up on a scarf EQ, then I can dragon claw them and force them to switch or be KOd breaking my sub. In short, sub helps against status and works well with screech because screech literally forces switches and gives free subs. Also have sub lets you beat things like vaporeon + gliscor otherwise they could toxic you and switch around.

 

[Megan_Fox]

I tested this a bit, and it overall produced good results. Being able to OHKO Subroost dos and Offensive Cune after Stealth Rock as well as dealing atleast 70% to swampert was pretty nice because those are the kind of Pokemon are that commonly switch into Flygon. As for the moveset, I preferred U-Turn almost always. Sub + LO really really wears Flygon down and a lot of the time has no use due to being phazed away (EX: you sub Swampert comes in as you Screech / EQ and it roars). Because of this, U-Turn should be the main option as it offers switch advantage which really helps early game when some opposing Pokemon with full HP might not get OHKOd after a Screech. The problem I have with U-Turn is that I did seem to be wasting a lot of Health due to the LO recoil when I U-Turned. I guess that can't be helped though, since LO seems necessary for certain KOs it should probably still have the main option but leftovers definitely does deserve its slash for that reason. Overall, a pretty good set. I'll probably end up approving this.

 

[Eggbert]

Yea I made U-turn the first option over sub. Spikes/SR + screech boosted u-turn to a counter + more spikes/SR wears the other team out really quickly. I still think sub deserves a slash because it can let Flygon beat things like Gengar trying to get their own sub on an earthquake, prevent faster threats like starmie from outright KOing you, and block status. LO recoil is a pain, but Flygon just can't get any OHKOs without it and it can deal nice chip damage with screech and LO. Fortunately Vaporeon has a well synergized wish and Flygon doesn't really care about opposing entry hazards.

 

[zapper22001]

Posting my results after testing.

I had a similar experience to Megan Fox. U-turn was great on Flygon, but the amount of health you lost was a big downturn. I tested Expert Belt out and it was decent at best. I missed out on a few KOs which sucked, but the difference in survivability was huge. However, it probably isn't as good of an option as either Life Orb or Leftovers.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Okay, so I decided to go on my own adventures and test this out a bit.

As far as Screech Flygon goes, it's, ah, decent. Decent because of the amount of frailty and inaccuracy Screech Flygon has in general. I find myself wanting to use Screech on an unsuspecting Flying-type only to miss and be hit by a stray decently-hitting attack. Its frailty isn't a problem all the time, of course. It's just that...when Flygon is there on the battlefield, you wouldn't believe how many times I wish Flygon had Dragonite's bulk when it comes to sponging attacks.

Screech is a decent, and I emphasize the term, threat in itself, but it should be noted that it has 85% accuracy. The basic gist is to NOT use screech so many times, otherwise the opponent catches on. It's best to go all-out offensively after revealing the Screech strategy, IMO, unless a certain situation calls for it (those damned Suicunes).

This will probably get approved; I was simply neutral about this set due to general frailty. When it has the right opportunity, Screech Flygon actually saved a margin of matches due to the popularity of Scarf. Super-Decent.

 

[Eggbert]

Hmm, expert belt or even muscle band would be a good idea, but they just don't have enough power considering Flygon barely reaches said KOs with life orb. As for frailty, Flygon's 80/80/80 defenses aren't bad but they don't really need to be that great considering how easy it is to abuse Flygon's resistances. Yea, the accuracy is a let down. But if you think about it, Heatran and Infernape use fire blast, Gengar relies on focus blast, tyranitar and stone edge, ect. It will miss a few times, but it isn't as bad as, say, hypnosis, and is mostly used on the switch so you won't be KOed. I find this particular Flygon helpful because it can break past a tough wall that would stop other physical attackers (suicune, swampert, zapdos, ect).

Can this serve as a "bump" for qc approval/rejection if anyone has the time? This thread has been sitting here for a few weeks...

 

[Megan_Fox]

As I said in my last post, so...

Or

Approved (1/3)

 

[Eggbert]

1 week bump...

 

[deinosaur]

I really like this set, I can see it work in the future.
I will try to test it with some team support.

 

[panamaxis]

Ok.

Or

Approved (2/3)

 

[Setsuna]

Write it. Good Job.

 

[Eggbert]

Ok, cool. I have the entire thing written as of now, but I'm on vacation. I'll post what I can from memory and update fully when I get back. (I get back on the weekend but I can post it immediately because I just need to paste it...)

 

[Eggbert]

...Ok here it is.

 

[Snorlaxe]

i don't have time to check this, but i have a quick note on the set name. iirc names like "screechgon" are typically frowned upon (though i'm not sure why), so i recommend that you simply change the name to "screech".