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Froslass (OU update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by supermarth64, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    This is for OU Froslass.

    Original analysis had quite a bit of fluff (first analysis, which I ended up making Theorymon length :P). I cut down a lot and rewrote some areas.

    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/froslass

    Status: Done.

    [Overview]
    <p>Froslass is a unique Pokemon, as she is the only Ghost-type Pokemon who can set up Spikes. Thanks to this unique attribute she can set up and block Rapid Spin at the same time. With this combination, she can set up entry hazards while blocking Rapid Spin at the same time. What also separates her from other Spikers is her blistering Speed coupled with Taunt, which effectively blocks attempts to keep Froslass from setting up while preventing opposing Pokemon from setting up their own entry hazards. Froslass also works well on hail teams, as Substitute, Thunder Wave, and Snow Cloak will surely annoy the opponent. Despite all of these advantages, Froslass isn't well equipped to handle the OU metagame due to her common weaknesses and the prevalence of priority moves, especially Bullet Punch. Nevertheless, Froslass is a great choice for offensive teams that require Spikes at the beginning of the game without resorting to the slower Skarmory or Forretress.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spiker
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Destiny Bond
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Focus Sash
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Froslass is a good lead in today's metagame, as her base 110 Speed and immunity to Fake Out and Explosion allow her to fare well against some of the more commonly seen leads. Opposing leads who attempt to set up entry hazards are stopped by Taunt, enabling Froslass to set up her own entry hazards.</p>

    <p>Spikes is the main move in this set, causing residual damage whenever the opponent switches Pokemon. Taunt serves the same purpose as in the previous paragraph, while Destiny Bond works well with Taunt to take down the opposing Pokemon. Ice Beam rounds out the set, allowing you to 2HKO Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Hippowdon leads.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Froslass has other viable attacking moves as a lead. Shadow Ball may be used as an alternative STAB attack, allowing you to 2HKO Infernape leads 80% of the time. However, you do lose the KOs on Aerodactyl and Hippowdon. Ice Shard may be used to 2HKO Aerodactyl, and its priority will cause Aerodactyl to either Taunt or set up Stealth Rock before dying; however, KOs on Azelf and Hippowdon are lost. If using Ice Shard, use 252 Attack EVs instead of Special Attack and a Jolly nature.</p>

    <p>Alternatively, Froslass may be used as a midgame Spiker. With an EV spread of 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe along with Leftovers, she can survive various weaker attacks, such as unboosted Surfs from bulky Water-type Pokemon. She's also different from other Spikers in that losing her doesn't mean you're losing a key defensive member of your team. Additionally, with Taunt and Ice Beam, opposing Pokemon will be hard pressed to set up, whereas Forretress and Skarmory can be forced out.</p>

    <p>Against leads who are slower than Froslass like Swampert and Heatran, leads who try to debilitate you like Roserade and Smeargle, or leads who set up such as Ninjask, Froslass can either Taunt and set up a minimum of one layer of Spikes, gain a Destiny Bond kill, or both depending on if the opponent tried to set up Stealth Rock the first turn. If you forgo the Taunt on the first turn, Froslass gets up a minimum of two layers of Spikes or one layer of Spikes and a Destiny Bond kill. If any lead decides to set up Stealth Rock, that's a minimum of three layers as Froslass goes down, or two layers of Spikes and a kill with Destiny Bond.</p>

    <p>Froslass has problems with leads such as Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Jirachi, as their higher Speed allows them to stop Froslass from setting up Spikes. Leads with priority, such as Metagross and Mamoswine, also cause problems for Froslass, as they force Froslass to either Taunt or set up a single layer of Spikes. If he attacks, Tyranitar can kill Froslass in one turn since the sandstorm nullifies Focus Sash. To combat these opposing leads, a variety of Pokemon may be used. To handle Aerodactyl and Azelf, you could attack immediately with Ice Beam, but they'll have accomplished their goal: Taunt the opposing lead and set up their own Stealth Rock. Magnezone and Swampert can handle Jirachi and Metagross. Swampert can also help against Mamoswine, Aerodactyl, and Tyranitar by hitting them with Surf, Earthquake, or Ice Beam. He can also set up Stealth Rock and provide Froslass with Fire-, Steel-, and Rock-type resistances.</p>

    <p>While Froslass is a Ghost-type Pokemon, she usually cannot last long enough to switch back later on in the match. This allows Rapid Spinners like Forretress and Starmie to switch in and Spin away your Spikes. Rotom-H makes a good partner to Froslass, as it not only blocks Rapid Spin, but can scare away both Forretress and Starmie with Overheat and STAB Thunderbolt respectively.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Snow Cloak Abuser
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Thunder Wave
    move 3: Spikes
    move 4: Blizzard / Ice Beam / Taunt
    item: Leftovers / BrightPowder
    nature: Timid
    evs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>While Froslass can make a reliable lead, you cannot forget about her ability: Snow Cloak. This set combines Snow Cloak and potential parafusion to cause plenty of stress for your opponent. For example, with the opposing Pokemon paralyzed and hail falling, Froslass will only be hit by a 100% accuracy move 60% of the time. Add in confusion and that brings the chance down to 30%, allowing Froslass to either set up Spikes or attack with her STAB move with near impunity.</p>

    <p>Substitute allows you to stall until the opposing Pokemon misses an attack. Thunder Wave slows down the opponent so Froslass can set up a Substitute before it can move and can prevent the opponent from attacking. It also prevents opposing Pokemon who try to use stat up moves from sweeping due to their lower Speed. While Froslass has a Substitute up, she can set up Spikes, which, alongside hail, slowly wear down the enemy. The last slot is for either attacking or more utility if you feel it is necessary. Blizzard takes advantage of the hail due to the accuracy boost it receives. Ice Beam is there for the extra PP and accuracy outside of hail, but is weaker. Taunt is an interesting choice on Froslass, as it prevents opponents from setting up, such as opposing Calm Minders. It also prevents Forretress and Skarmory from setting up entry hazards but prevents Froslass from dealing any damage.</p>

    <p>Leftovers is the recommended item to use on this set. With it, Froslass will be able to recover HP in order to create more Substitutes and restore HP while setting up Spikes. 248 HP EVs give her maximum defensive capabilities and allow her to switch into Stealth Rock four times from full health. 32 Speed EVs allow Froslass to outspeed neutral base 95s such as Electivire and postive base 81s such as Gyarados. The remaining EVs go into Defense to increase Froslass's physical bulk.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Although Leftovers is the main option for this set, BrightPowder may be used as an alternative item. However, it is generally inferior to Leftovers because it does nothing if your opponent is taking the time to set up their own entry hazards or stat boosts. Leftovers allows you to continue healing while your opponent is attempting to set up, letting you make more Substitutes. Confuse Ray can also work in the last slot in order to lower the chance of the opponent hitting Froslass even further.</p>

    <p>In order to effectively use this set, pairing Froslass with Abomasnow is absolutely required. His ability, Snow Warning, brings permanent hail onto the battlefield and activates Froslass's ability. However, both Abomasnow and Froslass have trouble with Steel-, Fire-, and Rock-type moves. While Froslass may be able to Thunder Wave Pokemon carrying these moves, she cannot do much else against them. For this reason, Abomasnow should be of the SubPunch variant to take out Steel-type Pokemon or may choose to carry Earthquake to deal with both Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Having both Abomasnow and Froslass on one team creates many weaknesses. Furthermore, basing a team around hail possesses problems in the forms of Tyranitar and Hippowdon, as their ability replaces hail with sandstorm. Fortunately, a bulky Water-type Pokemon can help mitigate these problems, as Water-types resist Fire- and Steel-type moves and scare Tyranitar and Hippowdon away with STAB super effective Surfs. Swampert can set up Stealth Rock, Roar out the opposing Pokemon, and resists all three common weaknesses of Abomasnow and Froslass. Suicune's impressive defenses let it wall both special and physical attacks and can also utilize Roar. Vaporeon can pass Wishes to Froslass and Abomasnow, which is helpful due to the shared Stealth Rock weakness. Tentacruel can easily sponge Fire-type attacks thanks to his Water typing and high Special Defense, as well as Rapid Spin away entry hazards and set up Toxic Spikes. Heatran can use his ability to switch into Fire-type attacks and also resists Steel-type attacks, while Froslass's Ghost-typing allows her to switch into Fighting-type moves like Close Combat.</p>

    <p>Because this set is not a lead, Froslass can switch in later on in the game to block Rapid Spin. However, she cannot do much against Forretress and Starmie offensively because both of them resist Ice-type attacks and Thunder Wave actually makes Forretress's Gyro Ball stronger. Once again, Rotom-H would make a good partner for reasons mentioned in the previous set. Additionally, Rotom-F would make a good partner due to hail boosting the accuracy of its Blizzards to 100%. However, it has trouble hitting Forretress effectively.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Choice Scarf Lead
    Move 1: Trick
    Move 2: Spikes
    Move 3: Destiny Bond
    Move 4: Ice Beam
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Froslass has an excellent Speed stat, which when combined with access to Spikes, makes her an excellent lead. Although she is generally slower than Aerodactyl and Azelf, this set attempts to remedy that by using a Choice Scarf. With the Choice Scarf, she can either cripple the opposing lead or proceed to set up several layers of Spikes.</p>

    <p>Trick is a powerful move on this set, as it cripples your opponent's lead. If Froslass is up against Aerodactyl or Azelf, she can Trick the Choice Scarf and lock them into either Taunt or Stealth Rock. If it's a bulky lead, then you've deprived your opponent of a useful late-game tank. Spikes is to take advantage of bulky leads as they switch out if they're locked into Stealth Rock or a weak attacking move. Destiny Bond gives you a free kill when you die, potentially allowing Froslass to cripple one Pokemon and KO another. Ice Beam is a reliable STAB option for 2HKOing Azelf and Aerodactyl leads, along with unboosted Dragon-type Pokemon. Furthermore, it ensures Froslass doesn't become useless if opposing leads Taunt her.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball deserve a mention due to being able to hit Skarmory and Gengar for super effective damage. Thunderbolt can also be used to revenge kill Gyarados should Froslass still have her Choice Scarf. Feel free to use them over Destiny Bond. Additionally, if you keep the Choice Scarf later on in the game, Froslass can be a makeshift revenge killer, KOing +1 Dragon Dance Salamence along with outspeeding Gengar.</p>

    <p>This set is heavily reliant on prediction, and if played incorrectly, can give your opponent an early advantage. Furthermore, several opposing leads cause problems for it. Metagross can just Bullet Punch twice or use Meteor Mash, as Froslass doesn't have a Focus Sash to protect herself from a hit. This means that you either get up one layer of Spikes, face an opposing Choice Scarf Metagross, or begin the game 5-5 with a Destiny Bond KO. Heatran can also be annoying, as Fire Blast OHKOes Froslass. Scizor is also a threat to this set, as Bullet Punch will bypass Froslass's outstanding Speed and Pursuit places Froslass in a checkmate position.</p>

    <p>Magnezone is a great partner to this set, as it can kill opposing Metagross who are locked into Meteor Mash or Bullet Punch along with Scizor. Swampert is a handy partner, as its Water-typing grants it a resistance to Fire-type moves. It can also get up Stealth Rock for more residual damage. Both of them also resist several types that Froslass fears.</p>

    <p>Furthermore, an additional Ghost-type Pokemon is helpful to help keep Spikes on your side of the field. Rotom-H is a great partner to Froslass as it can hit Starmie and Forretress with super effective moves. It also helps scare away Metagross. Rotom-W can be used to scare away Heatran also, but don't go switching it into Fire Blast.</p>

    [Team Options]
    <p>As Froslass is mainly a support Pokemon, she appreciates Pokemon who can support her, namely those who resist Froslass's weaknesses. Although these super effective attacks are very common, there are many other Pokemon who resist them. Due to Froslass's low Special Attack stat, she will be hard-pressed to kill many Pokemon who are neutral to her STAB attacks, so employing certain Pokemon to help take care of these threats is also necessary.</p>

    <p>Swampert resists three of Froslass's five weaknesses and can hit those Pokemon with STAB Earthquakes and Surfs. Metagross can use its physical bulk to resist Rock- and Steel-type attacks. Heatran resists Steel-, Ghost-, and Dark-type moves and is immune to Fire-type moves. Froslass also has good synergy with Heatran because Froslass can freely switch into Fighting-type moves. Bulky Water-type Pokemon such as Vaporeon, Suicune, and Tentacruel also resist Fire- and Steel-type moves. Although they cannot counter Froslass's Dark-type weakness, Lucario and Scizor can capitalize on it and set up a Swords Dance. Spikes also makes it harder for the opponent to counter these two Pokemon.</p>

    <p>As Froslass's ability suggests, putting her on a team with Abomasnow can be helpful, allowing her to dodge potentially fatal attacks. When using Froslass with Abomasnow, the Pokemon mentioned in the previous paragraph are highly recommended. However, Scizor may also be used to remove Tyranitar with Bullet Punch, U-turn, or Superpower. Magnezone can trap and KO Scizor and Metagross, freeing Froslass from potential Bullet Punches or Pursuits. Froslass and Abomasnow are also weak to Fire-type attacks. Suicune and Swampert can help deal with Heatran, while Tentacruel is a great check to Infernape. Although Froslass is a Ghost-type Pokemon, she has trouble with common Rapid Spinners like Starmie and Forretress. Rotom-H helps remove these two and can also deal with Metagross and Scizor.</p>

    [Optional Changes]
    <p>When considering a Hidden Power type, remember that an unresisted STAB Ice Beam does slightly more than a 2x Hidden Power. Hidden Power Fighting may be used to combat Tyranitar, 2HKOing 0 HP / 0 SpD neutral natured Tyranitar with Stealth Rock down. Unfortunately, it does leave Froslass with a 30 Speed IV, which means she loses to other base 110s like Gengar. Hidden Power Ground can be used for Heatran, as it has a 79% chance of OHKOing 0 HP / 0 SpD negative natured Heatran with Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes down. Hidden Power Grass can be used for Swampert, 2HKOing the 252 HP / 0 SpD neutral natured Mixpert set. Hidden Power Fire snags an OHKO on any unsuspecting Forretress and Scizor who try to Pursuit, but also leaves Froslass with a 30 Speed IV. Thunderbolt allows you to hit Water-types who resist Ice Beam along with Skarmory, although Starmie would be hit harder by Shadow Ball due to its weakness to Ghost-type moves.</p>

    <p>Froslass can also use an offensively-oriented set, composed of Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, and a Hidden Power or Trick if Froslass is holding a Choice item. However, Gengar is generally a better Pokemon for this, as its higher Special Attack allows it to deal more damage. Froslass can also use a set with Trick to debilitate her opponents and then begin to set up Spikes, but her low defenses make it hard to do so effectively.</p>

    <p>As for support options, Light Screen may be used, but Froslass is generally too frail to continuously set them up. Block can be used along with Destiny Bond and Taunt to force a kill, but it is a one-time deal. Snatch can steal a Substitute or stat boosts from your opponent if they try to set up in front of Froslass to avoid Destiny Bond. Swagger can be used over Confuse Ray on the Snow Cloak set in order for the opponent to deal more damage to itself if it hits itself, but its 90% accuracy and the +2 Attack boost it gives to the opposing Pokemon can be dangerous.</p>

    <p>Snow Cloak Froslass can also run more Speed EVs in order to outspeed postive-natured base 90s. This will require 96 Speed EVs, which can be taken from Defense. This helps to get off a quick Thunder Wave against Lucario, crippling his sweeping capabilities.</p>

    [Counters]
    <p>Froslass's main counter is Tyranitar, as Sand Stream immediately removes any hail falling on the field, while he can threaten Froslass with Pursuit, Crunch, or Stone Edge. Hid ability causes a sandstorm, gives him a Special Defense boost and allowing Tyranitar to shrug off any Ice Beams Froslass may try to use. Scizor and Metagross can both come in on Ice Beam or Shadow Ball and bypass Froslass's Speed with Bullet Punch or catch her switching out with Pursuit. Snorlax can Pursuit or Crunch Froslass, depending on if she stays in or not.</p>

    <p>As a lead, Azelf and Aerodactyl both shut her down, as their higher Speed coupled with Taunt prevents Froslass from setting up any Spikes. Although Froslass can 2HKO them with Ice Beam, they will have still managed to set up Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>On the Snow Cloak set, Swampert is a good counter to Froslass because of his immunity to Thunder Wave and neutrality to Blizzard and Ice Beam. Swampert can either Roar away Froslass or attack her with Earthquake or Surf.</p>

    <p>Any faster Taunter can force Froslass to attack and stop using support moves as Substitute does not block Taunt. Slower Taunters have to watch out for Thunder Wave.</p>

    <p>Froslass's success is tied to her Speed. If you can inflict paralysis upon her, Froslass will be effectively neutered. Barring that, Bullet Punch, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch all have priority, bypassing Froslass's impressive Speed and scoring super effective damage. Stealth Rock also prevents Froslass from switching in too many times. Since her defenses are not that impressive, hitting Froslass with any neutral attack will cause severe damage to her, most likely causing her to die from another switch-in.</p>
  2. Dark Talon

    Dark Talon

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    There you go :)
    If anything I did doesn't make sense, I'd be more than happy to explain why I suggested it.

    [deleted] means I deleted something

    This means I made a grammatical change

    This means I made a stylistic change

    These are my comments
  3. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Thanks Dark Talon, made those changes along with the other changes (overview and optional changes).
  4. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    No. Block is a HGSS tutor move while Spikes is an egg move, so they're perfectly legal together.
  5. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    Ah, this was made pre-HGSS. Thanks for that nitpick.
  6. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    Ok yea so it's been a while, what with the analyses changes and me being a lazy bum, but this can be grammar checked some more.
  7. Namso

    Namso
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    Upon request!

    Nice job sm64!
  8. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    [Overview]
    <p>Froslass is a very unique Pokemon, as she is the only Ghost-type Pokemon that can set up Spikes, allowing her to set up and block Rapid Spin at the same time. What also separates her from other Spikers is her blistering Speed coupled with Taunt, preventing opposing Pokemon from setting up their own entry hazards. Froslass also works well on a hail team, as Substitute, Thunder Wave, and Snow Cloak will surely annoy the opponent. Despite all of these advantages, Froslass isn't well-equipped to handle the OU metagame due to her common weaknesses and the prevalence of priority moves. Nevertheless, Froslass is a great choice for teams that require Spikes at the beginning of the game without resorting to Skarmory or Forretress.</p>

    [You can say that Froslass fills an offensive role as a Spiker, while Forretress and Skarmory do not. Those two can slow down offensive momentum.]

    [SET]
    name: Suicide Lead
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Destiny Bond
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Focus Sash
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Froslass is a good lead in today's metagame, as her base 110 Speed and immunity to Fake Out and Explosion allow her to fare well against some of the more commonly seen leads. Opposing leads that attempt to set up entry hazards are stopped by Taunt, enabling Froslass to set up her own entry hazards.</p>

    <p>Spikes is the main move in this set, causing residual damage whenever the opponent switches Pokemon. Taunt serves the same purpose as in the previous paragraph, while Destiny Bond works well with Taunt to take down the opposing Pokemon. Ice Beam rounds out the set, allowing you to 2HKO Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Hippowdon leads.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Focus Sash allows you to survive a hit and then take down the opposing lead with Destiny Bond or set up another layer of Spikes. If the opposing Pokemon tries to attack first, then Froslass can Taunt and Destiny Bond it, preventing it from getting up entry hazards. If the opposing Pokemon tries to set up entry hazards first, then Froslass can get a layer of Spikes down before committing suicide with Destiny Bond.</p>

    <p>Froslass has other viable attacking moves as a lead. Shadow Ball may be used as an alternative STAB attack, allowing you to 2HKO Infernape leads 80% of the time. However, you do lose the KOs on Aerodactyl and Hippowdon. Ice Shard may be used to 2HKO Aerodactyl, and its priority will cause Aerodactyl to either Taunt or set up Stealth Rock before dying; however, KOs on Azelf and Hippowdon are lost. If using Ice Shard, use 252 Attack EVs instead of Special Attack and a Jolly nature.</p>

    <p>Against leads that are slower than Froslass like Swampert and Heatran, try to debilitate you like Roserade and Smeargle, or for leads that set up such as Ninjask, Froslass can either Taunt and set up a minimum of one layer of Spikes, gain a Destiny Bond kill, or both, depending on if the opponent tried to set up Stealth Rock the first turn. If you forgo the Taunt first turn, Froslass gets up a minimum of two layers of Spikes or one layer of Spikes and a Destiny Bond kill. If any lead decides to set up Stealth Rock, that's a minimum of three layers as Froslass goes down, or two layers of Spikes and a kill with Destiny Bond.</p>

    <p>Froslass has problems with leads such as Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Jirachi, as their higher Speed allows them to stop Froslass from setting up Spikes. Leads with priority, such as Metagross and Mamoswine, also cause problems for Froslass, as they force Froslass to either Taunt or set up a single layer of Spikes. If it attacks, Tyranitar can kill Froslass in one turn since the sandstorm nullifies Focus Sash. To combat these opposing leads, a variety of Pokemon may be used. To handle Aerodactyl and Azelf, you can either attack immediately with Ice Beam, but they'll have accomplished their goal: Taunt the opposing lead and set up their own Stealth Rock. Magnezone and Swampert can handle Jirachi and Metagross. Swampert can also help against Mamoswine, Aerodactyl, and Tyranitar by hitting them with Surf, Earthquake, or Ice Beam. It can also set up Stealth Rock and provide Froslass with a Fire, Steel, and Rock resistance.</p>

    <p>While Froslass is a Ghost-type Pokemon, she usually cannot last long enough to switch back later on in the match. This allows Rapid Spinners like Forretress and Starmie to switch in and Spin away your Spikes. Rotom-H makes a good partner to Froslass, as it not only blocks Rapid Spin, but can scare away both Forretress and Starmie with Overheat and STAB Thunderbolt, respectively.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Snow Cloak Abuser
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Thunder Wave
    move 3: Spikes
    move 4: Blizzard / Ice Beam / Confuse Ray
    item: Leftovers / BrightPowder
    nature: Timid
    evs: 32 HP / 224 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>While Froslass can make a reliable lead, you cannot forget about her ability, Snow Cloak. This set abuses that ability and parafusion to cause plenty of stress for your opponent. For example, with the opposing Pokemon paralyzed and hail falling, Froslass will only be hit by a 100% accuracy move 60% of the time. Add in confusion and that brings the chance down to 30%, allowing Froslass to either set up Spikes or attack with her STAB move very efficiently.</p>

    <p>Substitute allows you to stall until the opposing Pokemon misses an attack. Thunder Wave slows down the opponent so Froslass can set up a Substitute before it can move, and can prevent the opponent from attacking. While Froslass has a Substitute up, she can set up Spikes, which, alongside hail, slowly wear down the enemy. The last slot is for either attacking or more utility if you feel it is necessary. Blizzard takes advantage of the hail due to the accuracy boost it grants. Ice Beam is there for the extra PP and accuracy outside of hail, but is weaker. Confuse Ray allows for the dreaded parafusion, but it does leave Froslass with no attacking moves at all, turning her into Taunt bait for Pokemon like Gyarados or Tyranitar to set up on. Those Taunters still have to worry about a Thunder Wave due to Froslass' Speed.</p>

    <p>Leftovers is the recommended item for use by set. With it, Froslass will be able to recover HP in order to create more Substitutes and can heal up while setting up Spikes. Along with the given HP EVs, it allows you to Substitute five times in a row while waiting for the opponent to miss thanks to Snow Cloak's evasion boost. Meanwhile, the given Speed EVs let Froslass Speed tie with Gengar and Latias. The remaining EVs go into Special Attack to boost the attacking move's power.</p>

    [Is running max Speed really worth it? I mean, if you're using Thunder Wave and Substitute, can't you go for a more bulky EV spread? I understand you lose the Speed tie to Gengar and Latias, but if you set up a Substitute or hit them with Thunder Wave as they switch in, you're going to outspeed them anyway. I don't know if it should be the primary EV spread.]

    agreeing with fuzzers

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Although Leftovers is the main option for this set, BrightPowder may be used as an alternative item. However, it is generally inferior to Leftovers because it does nothing if your opponent is taking the time to set up entry hazards or stat boosts. Leftovers allows you to continue healing while your opponent is attempting to set up, letting you make more Substitutes.</p>

    <p>If using Confuse Ray, you would want to give Froslass 248 HP EVs for the most durable Substitutes, as maxing out HP EVs would cause her to die from four switch-ins with Stealth Rock on the field and only allow it to create three Substitutes at max HP. The remaining EVs that were previously in Special Attack can be used to bolster a defensive stat.</p>

    <p>In order to effectively use this set, Abomasnow is absolutely required to be on your team. Its ability, Snow Warning, brings permanent hail onto the battlefield and activates Froslass' ability. However, both Abomasnow and Froslass have trouble with Steel-, Fire-, and Rock-type moves. While Froslass may be able to Thunder Wave Pokemon carrying these moves, she cannot do much else against them. For this reason, Abomasnow should be of the SubPunch variant to take out Steel-type Pokemon or may choose to carry Earthquake to deal with both Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Having both Abomasnow and Froslass on one team creates many weaknesses. Furthermore, basing a team around hail possesses problems in the forms of Tyranitar and Hippowdon, as their ability removes hail and causes sandstorm to be set up. Fortunately, a bulky Water-type Pokemon can help mitigate these problems, as it resists Fire- and Steel-type moves and scares Tyranitar and Hippowdon away with STAB super effective Surfs. Swampert can set up Stealth Rock, Roar out the opposing Pokemon, and resist all three common weaknesses of Abomasnow and Froslass. Suicune's impressive defenses let it wall both special and physical attacks spectrum is a banned word now or osmething because it technically isn't a spectrum and can also utilize Roar. Vaporeon can pass Wishes to Froslass and Abomasnow, which is helpful due to the shared Stealth Rock weakness. Tentacruel can easily sponge Fire-type attacks thanks to its Water-typing and high Special Defense, as well as Rapid Spin away entry hazards and set up Toxic Spikes. Heatran can use its ability to switch into Fire-type attacks and also resists Steel-type attacks, while Froslass' Ghost-typing allows it to switch into Fighting-type moves like Close Combat.</p>

    <p>Because this set is not a lead, she can switch in later on in the game to block Rapid Spin. However, Froslass cannot do much against Forretress and Starmie offensively, because both of them resist Ice-type attacks and Thunder Wave actually makes Forretress' Gyro Ball stronger. Once again, Rotom-H would make a good partner for reasons mentioned in the previous set.</p>

    [Maybe mention Rotom-F too?]

    forry also runs payback dunno if that's worth mentioning lol. i honestly don't see the point in this set though, just lets the opponent set up :(

    [Team Options]
    <p>As Froslass is mainly a support Pokemon, she appreciates Pokemon that can support her, namely those that can resist Froslass' weaknesses. Although these super effective attacks are very common, myriad other Pokemon that resist them. Due to Froslass' low Special Attack stat, it will be hard-pressed to kill many Pokemon that are neutral to her STAB attacks, so employing certain Pokemon to help take care of these threats is also necessary.</p>

    <p>Swampert resists three out of Froslass' five weaknesses and can hit those Pokemon with STAB Earthquakes and Surfs. Metagross can use its physical bulk to resist Rock- and Steel-type attacks. Heatran resists Steel-, Ghost-, and Dark-type moves and is immune to Fire-type moves. Froslass also has good synergy with Heatran because Froslass can freely switch into Fighting-type moves. Bulky Water-type Pokemon such as Vaporeon, Suicune, and Tentacruel also resist Fire- and Steel-type moves. Although they cannot remove Froslass' Dark-type weakness, Lucario and Scizor can capitalize on it and set up a Swords Dance. Spikes also makes it harder for the opponent to counter these two Pokemon.</p>

    <p>As Froslass' ability suggests, putting her on a team with Abomasnow can be helpful, allowing her to dodge potentially fatal attacks. When using Froslass with Abomasnow, the Pokemon mentioned in the previous paragraph are highly recommended. However, Scizor may also be used to remove Tyranitar with Bullet Punch, U-turn, or Superpower. Magnezone can trap and KO Scizor and Metagross, freeing Froslass from potential Bullet Punches or Pursuits. Froslass and Abomasnow are also weak to Fire-type attacks. Suicune and Swampert can help deal with Heatran, while Latias is a great check to Infernape. Although Froslass is a Ghost-type Pokemon, she has trouble with common Rapid Spinners like Starmie and Forretress. Rotom-H helps remove these two and can also deal with Metagross and Scizor.

    [Optional Changes]
    <p>When considering a Hidden Power type, remember that an unresisted STAB Ice Beam does slightly more than a 2x Hidden Power. Hidden Power Fighting may be used to combat Tyranitar, 2HKOing 0 HP / 0 SpD neutral natured Tyranitar with Stealth Rock down. Unfortunately, it does leave Froslass with a 30 Speed IV, which means she loses to other base 110s like Latias and Gengar. Hidden Power Ground can be used for Heatran, as it has a 79% chance of OHKOing 0 HP / 0 SpD negative-natured Heatran with Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes down. Hidden Power Grass can be used for Swampert, 2HKOing the 252 HP / 0 SpD neutral natured Mixpert set. Hidden Power Fire snags an OHKO on any unsuspecting Forretress and Scizor, but also leaves Froslass with a 30 Speed IV. Thunderbolt allows you to hit Water-types that resist Ice Beam, although Starmie would be hit harder by Shadow Ball due to its Psychic-typing. Psychic can be used for Heracross, but leaves Froslass more vulnerable to Dark-type Pokemon, so Shadow Ball is generally a better option.</p>

    <p>Froslass can also use an offensively based set, composed of Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, and a Hidden Power, or Trick if Froslass is holding a Choice item. However, Gengar is generally a better Pokemon for this, as its higher Special Attack allows it to deal more damage. Froslass can also use a set with Trick to debilitate her opponents and then begin to set up Spikes, but her low defenses make it hard to do so effectively.</p>

    <p>As for support options, Light Screen and Safeguard may be used, but Froslass is generally too frail to continuously set them up. Block can be used along with Destiny Bond and Taunt to force a kill, but it is a one-time deal. Snatch can steal a Substitute or stat boosts from your opponent if they try to set up in front of Froslass to avoid Destiny Bond. Swagger can be used over Confuse Ray on the Snow Cloak set, but its 90% accuracy and +2 Attack boost to the opposing Pokemon can be dangerous.</p>

    [Counters]
    <p>Froslass' main counter is Tyranitar, as Sand Stream immediately takes out any hail falling on the field, while it can threaten Froslass with Pursuit, Crunch, or Stone Edge. Its ability causes a sandstorm, giving it a Special Defense boost and allowing Tyranitar to shrug off any Ice Beams. Scizor and Metagross can both come in on Ice Beam or Shadow Ball and bypass Froslass' Speed with Bullet Punch or catch her switching out with Pursuit. Snorlax can Pursuit or Crunch Froslass, depending on if she stays in or not.</p>

    <p>As a lead, Azelf and Aerodactyl both shut her down, as their higher Speed coupled with Taunt prevents Froslass from setting up any Spikes. Although Froslass can 2HKO them with Ice Beam, they will have still managed to set up Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>On the Snow Cloak set, Swampert is a good counter to Froslass because of its immunity to Thunder Wave and neutrality to Blizzard or Ice Beam. Swampert can either Roar away Froslass or attack her with Earthquake or Surf.</p>

    <p>Any faster Taunter can force Froslass to attack and stop using support moves as Substitute does not block Taunt. Slower Taunters have to watch out for Thunder Wave.</p>

    <p>Froslass' success is tied to her Speed. If you can inflict paralysis upon her, Froslass will be effectively neutered. Barring that, Bullet Punch, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch all have priority, bypassing Froslass's impressive Speed and scoring super effective damage. Stealth Rock also prevents Froslass from switching in too many times. Since her defenses are not that impressive, hitting Froslass with any neutral attack will cause severe damage to it, most likely causing her to die from another switch-in.</p>

    gj marthy :D
  9. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    Thanks Fuzznip and pluff, made those changes. Attempting to find a different EV spread now.
  10. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    Froslass is BL now, so let's make this quick. Added in HFB's Choice Scarf lead (current one on site has a few errors). Also changed to a more defensive spread on the hail spiker set (helped survive some weak attacks).
  11. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

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    Just a nitpick, but the following text seems very redundant to me. I would probably cut out the second sentence.
    Also, and I don't play OU so take this with a grain of salt, but on the Choice Scarf set, I don't know if you need to max out your Speed. With a Timid nature and 68 Speed EVs, she's beating neutral natured Scarf Jirachi. With 176, she's beating it with a +Speed nature.
  12. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    Made that change before you posted. As for Froslass, the other EVs aren't doing much for it (it's not surviving anything more), so it might as well go into Spe to Speed tie other Froslass, Latias, and Gengar after you Trick.
  13. Sir Azelf

    Sir Azelf

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    Ive tried the Snow Cloak abuse set and i find Pain Split works fantastically over T-Wave on it so it could prolly be mentioned as as a slash. Since Toxic Spikes are usually on hail teams for Walrein (which is where you will usually see Froslass in OU)and with Pain Split this lets you outstall Blissey and waters who resist Ice Beam with T-Spikes up 1 vs 1. Pain Split also lets you make more subs which is the aim of the set, to stall for a miss and Pain Split lets it accomplish that better if you can keep making more subs. That along with being a psuedo healing move lets you block Rapid Spin a little longer too.
  14. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Cool stuff SuperMarthSixtyFour
  15. IronGross

    IronGross

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    Spite needs to get a mention somewhere...
  16. Xia

    Xia aka Lone Gansel
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Upon request...

    Oh, and all proper singular nouns that end in "s" still need to use "'s" to indicate possession, so I changed that for you.

    Overview (open)

    <p>Froslass is a very unique Pokemon, as she is the only Ghost-type who can set up Spikes. Thanks to this unique attribute, she can set up entry hazards while blocking Rapid Spin at the same time. What also separates her from other Spikers is her blistering Speed coupled with Taunt, which effectively blocks attempts to keep Froslass from setting up while preventing opposing Pokemon from setting up their own entry hazards. Froslass also works well on hail teams, as Substitute, Thunder Wave, and Snow Cloak will surely annoy the opponent. Despite all of these advantages, Froslass isn't well equipped to handle the OU metagame due to her common weaknesses and the prevalence of priority moves, especially Bullet Punch. Nevertheless, Froslass is a great choice for offensive teams that require Spikes at the beginning of the game without resorting to the slower Skarmory or Forretress.</p>


    Suicide lead (open)

    <p>Against leads who are slower than Froslass like Swampert and Heatran, leads who try to debilitate you like Roserade and Smeargle, or for leads who set up such as Ninjask, Froslass can either Taunt and set up a minimum of one layer of Spikes, gain a Destiny Bond kill, or both depending on if the opponent tried to set up Stealth Rock the first turn. If you forgo Taunt on the first turn, Froslass gets up a minimum of two layers of Spikes or one layer of Spikes and a Destiny Bond kill. If any lead decides to set up Stealth Rock, that's a minimum of three layers as Froslass goes down, or two layers of Spikes and a kill with Destiny Bond.</p>

    <p>Froslass has problems with leads such as Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Jirachi, as their higher Speed allows them to stop Froslass from setting up Spikes. Leads with priority, such as Metagross and Mamoswine, also cause problems for Froslass, as they force Froslass to either Taunt or set up a single layer of Spikes. If it attacks, Tyranitar can kill Froslass in one turn since the sandstorm nullifies Focus Sash. To combat these opposing leads, a variety of Pokemon may be used. To handle Aerodactyl and Azelf, you could attack immediately with Ice Beam, but they'll have accomplished their goal: Taunt the opposing lead and set up their own Stealth Rock. Magnezone and Swampert can handle Jirachi and Metagross. Swampert can also help against Mamoswine, Aerodactyl, and Tyranitar by hitting them with Surf, Earthquake, or Ice Beam. It can also set up Stealth Rock and provide Froslass with Fire, Steel, and Rock resistances.</p>


    Snow Cloak Abuser (open)

    <p>While Froslass can make a reliable lead, you cannot forget about her ability: Snow Cloak. This set combines Snow Cloak and parafusion to cause plenty of stress for your opponent. For example, with the opposing Pokemon paralyzed and hail falling, Froslass will only be hit by a 100% accuracy move 60% of the time. Add in confusion and that brings the chance down to 30%, allowing Froslass to either set up Spikes or attack with her STAB move with near impunity.</p>

    <p>Substitute allows you to stall until the opposing Pokemon misses an attack. Thunder Wave slows down the opponent so Froslass can set up a Substitute before it can move and can prevent the opponent from attacking. It also prevents opposing Pokemon who try to use stat up moves from sweeping due to their lower Speed. While Froslass has a Substitute up, she can set up Spikes, which, alongside hail, slowly wear down the enemy. The last slot is for either attacking or more utility if you feel it is necessary. Blizzard takes advantage of the hail due to the accuracy boost it receives. Ice Beam is there for the extra PP and accuracy outside of hail, but is weaker. Confuse Ray allows for the dreaded parafusion, but it does leave Froslass with no attacking moves at all, turning her into Taunt bait for Pokemon like Taunt Dragon Dance Gyarados or Tyranitar to set up on. Those Taunters still have to worry about a Thunder Wave due to Froslass' Speed, however.</p>

    <p>Leftovers is the recommended item to use on this set. With it, Froslass will be able to recover HP in order to create more Substitutes and restore HP while setting up Spikes. 248 HP EVs give her maximum defensive capabilities and allow her to switch into Stealth Rock four times from full health. 32 Speed EVs allow Froslass to outspeed neutral base 95s such as Electivire and positive base 81s such as Gyarados. The remaining EVs go into Defense to increase Froslass's physical bulk.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In order to effectively use this set, pairing Froslass with Abomasnow is absolutely required. Its ability, Snow Warning, brings permanent hail onto the battlefield and activates Froslass's ability. However, both Abomasnow and Froslass have trouble with Steel-, Fire-, and Rock-type moves. While Froslass may be able to Thunder Wave Pokemon carrying these moves, she cannot do much else against them. For this reason, Abomasnow should be of the SubPunch variant to take out Steel-type Pokemon or may choose to carry Earthquake to deal with both Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Having both Abomasnow and Froslass on one team creates many weaknesses. Furthermore, basing a team around hail possesses problems in the forms of Tyranitar and Hippowdon, as their ability replaces hail with sandstorm. Fortunately, a bulky Water-type Pokemon can help mitigate these problems, as Water-types resist Fire- and Steel-type moves and scare Tyranitar and Hippowdon away with STAB super effective Surfs. Swampert can set up Stealth Rock, Roar out the opposing Pokemon, and resists all three common weaknesses of Abomasnow and Froslass. Suicune's impressive defenses let it wall both special and physical attacks and can also utilize Roar. Vaporeon can pass Wishes to Froslass and Abomasnow, which is helpful due to the shared Stealth Rock weakness. Tentacruel can easily sponge Fire-type attacks thanks to its Water typing and high Special Defense, as well as Rapid Spin away entry hazards and set up Toxic Spikes. Heatran can use its ability to switch into Fire-type attacks and also resists Steel-type attacks, while Froslass's Ghost-typing allows her to switch into Fighting-type moves like Close Combat.</p>

    <p>Because this set is not a lead, Froslass can switch in later on in the game to block Rapid Spin. However, she cannot do much against Forretress and Starmie offensively because both of them resist Ice-type attacks and Thunder Wave actually makes Forretress's Gyro Ball stronger. Once again, Rotom-H would make a good partner for reasons mentioned in the previous set. Additionally, Rotom-F would make a good partner due to hail boosting the accuracy of its Blizzards to 100%.</p>

    Rotom-F will still have troubles against Forretress, so I'd probably move mention of it so it doesn't look like you're implying it can take on both Forretress and Starmie.


    Choice Scarf Lead (open)

    <p>Froslass has an excellent Speed stat, which when combined with access to Spikes, makes her an excellent lead. Although she is generally slower than Aerodactyl and Azelf, this set attempts to remedy that by using a Choice Scarf. With the Choice Scarf, she can either cripple the opposing lead or proceed to set up several layers of Spikes.</p>

    <p>Trick is a powerful move on this set, as it cripples your opponent's lead. If Froslass's up against Aerodactyl or Azelf, she can Trick the Choice Scarf and lock them into either Taunt or Stealth Rock. If it's a bulky lead, then you've deprived your opponent of a useful late-game tank. Spikes is to take advantage of bulky leads as they switch out if they're locked into Stealth Rock or a weak attacking move. Destiny Bond gives you a free kill when you die, potentially allowing Froslass to cripple one Pokemon and KO another. Ice Beam is a reliable STAB option for 2HKOing Azelf and Aerodactyl leads, along with unboosted Dragon-type Pokemon. Also, it ensures Froslass doesn't become useless if opposing leads Taunt her.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is heavily reliant on prediction, and if played incorrectly, can give your opponent an early advantage. Furthermore, several opposing leads cause problems for it. Metagross can just Bullet Punch twice or use Meteor Mash, as Froslass doesn't have a Focus Sash to protect herself from a hit. This means that you either get up one layer of Spikes, face an opposing Choice Scarf Metagross, or begin the game 5-5 with a Destiny Bond KO. Heatran can also be annoying, as Fire Blast KOes Froslass. Scizor is also a threat to this set, as Bullet Punch will bypass Froslass's outstanding Speed and Pursuit places Froslass in a checkmate position.</p>

    <p>Magnezone is a great partner to this set, as it can easily revenge kill opposing Metagross who are locked into Meteor Mash or Bullet Punch along with Scizor. Swampert is a handy partner, as its Water-typing grants it a resistance to Fire-type moves. It can also get up Stealth Rock for more residual damage. Both of them also resist several types that Froslass fears.</p>


    Team Options (open)

    <p>As Froslass is mainly a support Pokemon, she appreciates Pokemon who can support her, namely those who resist Froslass's weaknesses. Although these super effective attacks are very common, there are many other Pokemon who resist them. Due to Froslass's low Special Attack stat, she will be hard-pressed to kill many Pokemon who are neutral to her STAB attacks, so employing certain Pokemon to help take care of these threats is also necessary.</p>

    <p>Swampert resists three of Froslass's five weaknesses and can hit those Pokemon with STAB Earthquakes and Surfs. Metagross can use its physical bulk to resist Rock- and Steel-type attacks. Heatran resists Steel-, Ghost-, and Dark-type moves and is immune to Fire-type moves. Froslass also has good synergy with Heatran because Froslass can freely switch into Fighting-type moves. Bulky Water-type Pokemon such as Vaporeon, Suicune, and Tentacruel also resist Fire- and Steel-type moves. Although they cannot counter Froslass's Dark-type weakness, Lucario and Scizor can capitalize on it and set up a Swords Dance. Spikes also makes it harder for the opponent to counter these two Pokemon.</p>

    <p>As Froslass's ability suggests, putting her on a team with Abomasnow can be helpful, allowing her to dodge potentially fatal attacks. When using Froslass with Abomasnow, the Pokemon mentioned in the previous paragraph are highly recommended. However, Scizor may also be used to remove Tyranitar with Bullet Punch, U-turn, or Superpower. Magnezone can trap and KO Scizor and Metagross, freeing Froslass from potential Bullet Punches or Pursuits. Froslass and Abomasnow are also weak to Fire-type attacks. Suicune and Swampert can help deal with Heatran, while Latias is a great check to Infernape. Although Froslass is a Ghost-type Pokemon, she has trouble with common Rapid Spinners like Starmie and Forretress. Rotom-H helps remove these two and can also deal with Metagross and Scizor.</p>


    Optional Changes (open)

    <p>When considering a Hidden Power type, remember that an unresisted STAB Ice Beam does slightly more than a 2x Hidden Power. Hidden Power Fighting may be used to combat Tyranitar, 2HKOing 0 HP / 0 SpD neutral natured Tyranitar with Stealth Rock down. Unfortunately, it does leave Froslass with a 30 Speed IV, which means she loses to other base 110s like Latias and Gengar. Hidden Power Ground can be used for Heatran, as it has a 79% chance of OHKOing 0 HP / 0 SpD negative natured Heatran with Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes down. Hidden Power Grass can be used for Swampert, 2HKOing the 252 HP / 0 SpD neutral natured Mixpert set. Hidden Power Fire snags an OHKO on any unsuspecting Forretress and Scizor, but also leaves Froslass with a 30 Speed IV. Thunderbolt allows you to hit Water-types who resist Ice Beam along with Skarmory, although Starmie would be hit harder by Shadow Ball due to STAB.</p>

    <p>Froslass can also use an offensively-oriented set, composed of Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, and a Hidden Power or Trick if Froslass is holding a Choice item. However, Gengar is generally a better Pokemon for this, as its higher Special Attack allows it to deal more damage. Froslass can also use a set with Trick to debilitate her opponents and then begin to set up Spikes, but her low defenses make it hard to do so effectively.</p>

    <p>As for support options, Light Screen may (Safeguard?) be used, but Froslass is generally too frail to continuously set them up. Block can be used along with Destiny Bond and Taunt to force a kill, but it is a one-time deal. Snatch can steal a Substitute or stat boosts from your opponent if they try to set up in front of Froslass to avoid Destiny Bond. Swagger can be used over Confuse Ray on the Snow Cloak set in order for the opponent to deal more damage to itself if it hits itself, but its 90% accuracy and the +2 Attack boost it gives to the opposing Pokemon can be dangerous.</p>


    Counters (open)

    <p>Froslass's main counter is Tyranitar, as Sand Stream immediately removes any hail falling on the field, while it can threaten Froslass with Pursuit, Crunch, or Stone Edge. Its ability causes a sandstorm, giving it a Special Defense boost and allowing Tyranitar to shrug off any Ice Beams Froslass may try to use. Scizor and Metagross can both come in on Ice Beam or Shadow Ball and bypass Froslass's Speed with Bullet Punch or catch her switching out with Pursuit. Snorlax can Pursuit or Crunch Froslass, depending on if she stays in or not.</p>

    <p>On the Snow Cloak set, Swampert is a good counter to Froslass because of its immunity to Thunder Wave and neutrality to Ice. Swampert can either Roar away Froslass or attack her with Earthquake or Surf.</p>

    <p>Froslass's success is tied to her Speed. If you can inflict paralysis upon her, Froslass will be effectively neutered. Barring that, Bullet Punch, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch all have priority, bypassing Froslass's impressive Speed and scoring super effective damage. Stealth Rock also prevents Froslass from switching in too many times. Since her defenses are not that impressive, hitting Froslass with any neutral attack will cause severe damage to her, most likely causing her to die from another switch-in.</p>
  17. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    At best it sounds like OC material, but even I place a lot of doubt on it. Unlike someone like Spiritomb, Froslass doesn't have Pressure nor the defenses to back up using Spite overall. I'd even question its validity in the first place.
  18. Farewell

    Farewell

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    Disable might be a good idea on a Leftovers/Substitute set. This would work well if you need to Disable a Rapid Spinner that cannot threaten her (like Tentacruel), and that way you can switch her out without worry of being Rapid Spun.

    Disable also works with Substitute so that you can force a switch if the opponent only has 1 attack strong enough to break the Substitute, which also causes switches and racks up Spikes damage (and if you predict the switch you can set-up Spikes or another Substitute). The great part is that Disable works even if the attack misses, meaning it isn't hampered by Snow Cloak, in fact Snow Cloak allows it to really take advantage of it.

    Also, Disable can work on all moves so, unlike Taunt, it isn't limited in what types of moves are used, whether they be damage attacks or set-up moves. Imagine a Metagross without Meteor Mash, imagine a Gyarados without Waterfall, then you could switch in a Pokemon normally countered by it and do what's necessary. The best part is, Disable lasts for 4-7 turns, and can work for the long run.

    Disable also has the benefit for working on Choiced Pokemon, such as Choice Specs Latias. This causes them to struggle.

    If you are worried that the80% Accuracy on Disable will hamper it, just remember that in Hail the foes have an 80% chance of hitting you, and you can Substitute down to enable you don't get hit if it misses.


    [SET]
    name: Disable Hail Stall
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Disable
    move 3: Spikes
    move 4: Blizzard / Thunderwave
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe


    Thunderwave can also be used to help ensure a Substitute gets up, just ensure the foes you face aren't faster and packing Taunt, which shouldn't be too much of a Problem since you are packing Thunderwave... beyond the switch in. Blizzard, however, allows you to hit Dragonite, Salamence, Flygon, Gliscor, Latias, etc. for strong damage. with 1-2HKOs. (factoring in Hail, and Stealth Rocks damage for Latias).
  19. IronGross

    IronGross

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    I would change this to Taunt/Trick/Ice Beam/Shadow Ball, so many people won't hesitate to Taunt Froslass just to get Taunted themselfs, as well as blocking SRs in one move! Shadow Ball can 2HKO Azelf and opposing Froslass as well.
  20. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    When I wrote the Choice Scarf lead, There was a different logic behind it(referring to above poster).

    It's meant to lay down Spikes, while having an excellent Speed boost and Trick with Choice Scarf to cripple a Pokemon, effectively allowing it to make something setup fodder. For example, Magnezone can freely get up a Substitute against a Metagross locked into Bullet Punch, and can start creating havoc with a free turn after KOing Metagross, due to Substitute. The Froslass set is not meant to stop opposing leads from setting up entry hazards(is it called an anti-lead in the name or something?), it's meant to force a free turn for the user's next Pokemon, which can be exploited to gain momentum, and possibly another KO.

    The set you mention has a completely different purpose, but I am not in a position to say anything along the lines of, "That is a good set/bad set, I approve/ don't approve, it deserves to go on-site as an Anti-lead/it's a waste of time". What I do know is the actual purpose this set serves.

    P.S: supermarth64, you might want to add something similar to that paragraph, explaining that this isn't a full-fledged anti-lead.
  21. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Just my two cents. Frosslass has no reason to run maximum special attack since its not an offensive pokemon in this regard. I've been using Frosslass as a spiker for over a year now on my best team, and with some defensive investment, she can make things like Vaporeon Surf and Swampert Earthquake 3HKOs instead of 2HKOs. Furthermore, Frosslass has no reason to be called a Suicide lead even if you play her in the lead spot. I would consider the changes I have bolded. And remember that thanks to STAB, Ice Beam will OHKO Dragonite, Salamence, and Gliscor with NO Special Attack investment.

    Run the calcs. My spread provides 321 HP and 200 Def, verses the 281 HP / 176 Def that is currently listed. Also, you survive TWO Choice Scarf Tyranitar Pursuits, two Choice Band Scizor Pursuits, and One Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuits with my spread if you stay in.
  22. Phantom_IV

    Phantom_IV

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    I believe the policy is to remove all mentions of Latias now, as she is banished to ubers...

    Edit: RL, something of note is that you lose out on 2HKOing Azelf with that spread. And my calcs say that ScarfTar Pursuit does 49.2-58.6%, which is a definite 2HKO, even with lefties (remember sandstorm hits you before lefties heals). Ah, and Scizor's pursuit does a whopping 79.1-93.5%, but at least you can Destiny Bond before dying.
  23. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    Sorry guys for not updating this, but I've been testing out some random stuff. My results:

    I found that Twave was necessary on Hail Stall Froslass as the extra 20% dodge really helps. Pain Split didn't work too well for me because when the enemy switches in, they'll have taken Spikes + SR damage while Froslass is slowly gaining HP back. Also, if you're at that low health and you don't have a Sub up, there's no point in Pain Splitting because you're going to die anyway. Pain Split is only really useful against Blissey and Snorlax, so that's not really helpful as Blissey could just wall you out and Snorlax can set up in front of you (but risks Twave).

    As for Disable, I found that Taunt is better. Disable's 80% accuracy is pretty bad, and even if you do manage to Disable the one move that they can hit you with, they usually have another one or can just set up in front of you, making it harder to take them down. With Taunt, it's easier to handle because they can't set up/heal themselves as they're taking damage.

    HFB I'll mention that in the set.

    RL, Leftovers means that it loses to more leads like Metagross outright along with Jirachi instead of being able to get up at least one layer of Spikes. Additionally, you're 2HKOed by both Scarftar and Scarfzor's Pursuits. With that EV spread that you provided, you no longer keep the 2HKO vs Azelf leads, meaning that Azelf will have a chance to attack. (You need 104 EVs to 2HKO 100% of the time vs non-DS Azelf). Vaporeon has no business switching into Froslass, and if you switched Froslass out, when it comes back in, it will probably be taking SR damage, making the additional bulk useless vs Vaporeon. 152 Def / 104 SpA / 252 Spe seems interesting, but 152 Def causes Froslass to be OHKOed by CB Ttar's Pursuit >50% of the time and without Leftovers, causes Froslass to be 2HKOed by Swampert's EQ >50% of the time also. Froslass just doesn't have the bulk to be a bulky Spiker, as you're better off just using Skarm/Forry for that.

    Edit: Made Xia's changes, unslashed Confuse Ray and added Taunt, removed Latias mentions.
  24. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
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    Whoa? who said Frosslass had to be a lead?? You shouldn't be spiking on Azelf to begin with. Frosslass is actually a better spiker NOT as a lead. Plays just like other Spikers in the sense that you CHOOSE who you are spiking on (namely walls and more defensive pokemon). The difference between Frosslass vs. Forretress and Skarm is that offensive Juggernauts such as Salamence, Lucario, and Gyarados don't set up as easily, and losing Frosslass (which will always cost Lucario and Gyarados their lives thanks to Taunt + D-Bond) is not losing a key defensive member of your team.

    I would definately always use Sash if you are playing it as a lead. However, the EV spread I provided is more efficient. You aren't beating Azelf anyway, and ScarfTar and Scarf Scizor are switching into YOU, meaning you aren't OHKOed by their pursuits, which means you have laid 2 layers of spikes... The point I was trying to make is that with defensive investment, Frosslass is actually making a better use of her EVs as Special Attack is not needed to OHKO the things she is actually using Ice Beam on (Gliscor, Salamence, Dragonite...).

    Also, for the record, you should not be spiking on lead metagross and Scarfed Jirachi...

    For team options, give a strong mention that Swampert makes the perfect entry hazard partner for Frosslass. The leads that beat Lass usually can't do much to Swampert (Aero, Meta, Jirachi, etc.).
  25. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Ok so I tested it a bit more and deemed it viable enough to not put it in OC but not viable enough to be slashed in the main set.

    bojangles is giving this a check before I ask a mod to upload.

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