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Game Mechanic Changes That Will Be Important To VGC '11

Discussion in 'Past Format Discussion' started by mattj, Mar 28, 2011.

  1. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Programmer Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 23, 2006
    Nope. Quick Guard blocks Feint entirely, since it's a priority move.

    Hmm. Actually, that seems someone suspect now, since the same post says Feint doesn't interact with Wide Guard. Maybe it should be retested.
  2. poccil

    is a Researcher Alumnus

    Jun 18, 2007

    I was unaware of the post you linked to, which was made in October 2010. I made the tests with Feint, Wide Guard, and Quick Guard just about a day ago. Consistent with my testing, I updated my description for Feint as shown below:

    Ignores effect of Protect, Detect, Wide Guard, and Quick Guard if opponent is an opposing Pokemon of the user. If this attack is successful and opponent is an opposing Pokemon of the user, attacks by non-users this round are not prevented by the opponent's Protect or Detect effect, or by the Wide Guard or Quick Guard effect on the opponent's side. Priority level 2.
  3. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 5, 2007
    My tests show exactly the opposite. Quick Guard blocks Feint and any priority moves used after Feint.

    EDIT: I've tried using Feint on both the actual user of Quick Guard and on another Pokemon on the team. Quick Guard blocks both and neither breaks Quick Guard.

    Test #1:

    Riolu, Escavalier, Basculin vs. Simisear, Simipour, Simisage

    Escavalier uses Quick Guard
    Riolu uses Feint on Escavalier, but it's blocked by Quick Guard
    Basculin uses Aqua Jet on Escavalier, but it's blocked by Quick Guard

    Test #2:

    Riolu, Basculin, Escavalier vs. Simisear, Simipour, Simisage

    Escavalier uses Quick Guard
    Riolu uses Feint on Basculin, but it's blocked by Quick Guard
    Basculin uses Aqua Jet on Escavalier, but it's blocked by Quick Guard

    EDIT: Well, I've found one source of the discrepancy. I tried an Infrared Double Battle with Escavalier on one side and Riolu and Basculin on the other. In this case, Riolu does break through Quick Guard. The natural assumption is that this happens because the Quick Guard user and Feint user are on opposite teams, as poccil says. Although it's worth noting that Feint will break through an ally's Protect.

    EDIT: Upon further testing, it appears that Feint will also not break Wide Guard when used on an ally. It'll do damage, of course, since Wide Guard doesn't block Feint, but it won't break the Wide Guard effect.

    So, to sum up, it appears that Feint will remove the effects of Feint and Wide Guard if and only if the Feint is used on an opponent. This makes sense, since Wide Guard and Quick Guard throw up barriers between the sides of the field.
  4. mudkipmaster


    Feb 10, 2010
    Nice deduction Sherlock. :P
  5. LonelyNess

    LonelyNess Makin' PK Love
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Mar 23, 2007
    Wrong, the person who killed the Rough Skin Pokemon wins.

    Basically, they're using a "who died first" rule. In this situation, the rough skin Pokemon is struck with a killing blow, dies, then deals recoil to the attacking Pokemon, killing it. The Rough Skin Pokemon "died first", so the player attacking it wins.

    It's the same philosophy with Life Orb and Double-Edge, you deal the damage (killing the opponent), then you take the recoil (killing yourself). They "died first" (the damage comes before the recoil), so you win if you're the LO / Double-Edge user.

    Anyone who uses Explosion knows that it drops your HP to zero, THEN attacks. So in essence it's the reverse of the above. You kill yourself, then do damage to the opponent. You died "first", so you lose.

    If you want to know who wins in a recoil scenario, just remember to ask yourself "who died first??"
  6. drug_duck


    Jun 11, 2008
    So I thought about a strategy yesterday and did some tests on it and found something out. Let me lay out the strategy first to have an easier understanding on what has changed.

    I wanted to paralyse my own Reuniclus with a priority Thunder Wave from Thundurus. That way I make it slower than the opponent's Amoongus while getting a status immunity to play around Spore and being faster in the opponent's Trick Room. Now I checked out Smogon's description on Magic Guard for Gen 4. It clearly says the following:
    "This Pokemon can be paralyzed, and its Speed will be reduced as for any other Pokemon, but it will never be fully paralyzed."

    I now wanted to check on my actual B/W game if it still works that way and fair enough, it doesn't! Your Magic Guard user can now be fully paralysed. Just a minor change actually but since Reuniclus is used often in VGC this is an important change.
  7. Wichu

    Wichu Kittens
    is a Researcher Alumnus

    May 30, 2007
    It was confirmed that Magic Guard users could be fully paralysed way back (soon after the Japanese release). Toxic could work instead (though the lower accuracy is a bit of a letdown).
  8. peadawg14


    Oct 13, 2009
    When Flame Burst is used one one of your pokemon, and it also hits on with Flash Fire, Flash Fire isn't activated.

    I have Chandelure and Cottonee out. Cottonee is hit with Flame Burst. Chandelure is also hit and damaged.

  9. SupremeDirt


    Apr 15, 2009
    That's because it's "recoil-type" damage.

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