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Gems-Are they better THAN we think?

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Boondocker, Sep 23, 2012.

  1. feriokun


    Jul 19, 2012
    I would like to point out that gems are good in nintendo wifi battles where you can only have 1 item per pokemon. Making it so only 1 life orb or choice band is possible.
  2. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Aug 18, 2009

    i'm going to try your haxorus gem example out. maybe replace substitute with taunt so that skarm can't ww me.
  3. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn a e s t h e t i c
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Mar 17, 2012
    Replace Substitute with Earthquake, if Skarm has taken a couple layers of Stealth Rock damage you won't need to Taunt it at all, and you'll be wanting EQ badly for Jirachi, who is on every other team these days. Running the listed Haxorus as a late-game cleaner on a Dragon Spam team would work exceptionally well, I think. Scarf Mence is too obvious to work well anymore, if it's on a team with another Dragon in Team Preview you can essentially guarantee the Scarf.

    Speaking of Salamence...Dragon Gem DDMence is uncounterable. Just saying.
  4. Ambicrow3


    Nov 7, 2011
    I personally find that gems are best used on priority/coverage moves. Giving Pseudo-STAB on a coverage move lets you break through so many walls. My personal favorite gem set is the standard SD Sandslash, but with a Shadow Gem (the ghost one). This allows it to pick up the KO on Celebie iirc after rocks at +2. This pretty much allows Sandslash to muscle through entire teams late game while in sand, and it doesn't take severe damage from LO.
  5. nygerman


    Sep 27, 2008
    I think all of you are only backing up my argument that Gems are only situational.

    Deoxy runs a gem only to kill certain pokemon(s) such as scizor or Tyranitar that usually threatens it, but it is only useful because Deoxy is a suicide lead, not meant to last.

    I don't any salamence set is effective anymore now that there quite a few pokemon that outspeed Salamence. Dragon Gem moxie is only useful to particular instances. If you waste the dragon gem on like a Skarmory/Forretress, your salamence is no where near as effective the rest of the game.

    For Haxorus, forget taunt, Skarmory brave bird does way too much for Haxorus to set up

    From my experiences, only certain pokemon such as Dragonite, Breloom and Gyarados can effectively set up dances and sweep this gen.Two of them have the bulk to and Breloom has an extremely powerful ability. Salamence and Haxorus are too fragile for setup and too slow for a sweep. I, myself, mostly run heavily offensive based teams. DD Mence is easily to counter. I can guareentee that Mence would be able to put up more than 1 Dance unless I switch into a sleeping pokemon as fodder. I have a reliable scarfer that can take mence down and even after that, I have priority. Mence has to got through all those just to sweep.

    Dragon Gem is uncounterable, but it is easily checked. That being said, many other pokemon are uncounterable.
  6. Bl1tzkri3g


    Aug 26, 2012
    I fail to see what you mean about no Pokemon being able to abuse Gems. Terrakion uses a Rock Gem to great effect, either on a psuedo-double dance set or Sub SD. The Gem allows it to nuke its best checks; bulky things like Slowbro cant take a +2 Stone Edge, and semi-bulky things that can survive a even (unboosted) Stone Edge, like Latios die from a stone edge where it wouldn't have before. I think thats the very definition of abuse, to be honest, killing something that normally beats you straight up.
  7. tehy

    tehy Banned deucer.

    Aug 16, 2010
    Gems are quite simple. You have to ask yourself if a specific KO is worth not having an item, meaning 6% health a turn, 30% damage on all your moves, ETC. If it is,great. if not, don't use it. Interesting to see what's worth it.

    Also dragon gem salamence is no more uncounterable than regular salamence.
  8. NidoJosh


    Nov 27, 2011
    I find that a great set in UU is Dark Gem Moxiekrow

    Honchkrow @ Dark Gem
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute/Superpower
    - Sucker Punch
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost / Heat Wave / Pursuit / Tailwind

    The beauty of this set is that it completely destroys almost every ghost in the game, due to the boosted dark gem, which almost always guarantees you that initial moxie boost. It also works well against other pokemon, dealing some pretty decent damage. Tailwind is also viable, because you can switch in on a pokemon that is sure to switch out, set it up and outspeed many fast threats such as Scarf Heracross etc
  9. Queen of Randoms

    Queen of Randoms Queen.
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 23, 2012
    Don't all the UU ghosts Will-O-Wisp or otherwise try not to get Sucker Punched in the face? I'm confused as to how that set is more effective than say Life Orb.

    Also, this is OU we're supposed to be talking about. The OU ghosts are Jellicent, who will probably Will-O-Wisp (unless she doesn't run it in which case even still Life Orb is looking better overall) and Gengar, who doesn't need a Dark Gem boosted Sucker Punch to die, and probably will either Sub or leave.
  10. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Mar 2, 2011
    +1 Outrage Salamence + dragon jem -> defensive slowbro (85.27 - 100.5%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO (81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

    Not bad, although, yeah, you need rocks up. There also comes the issue of locking yourself into outrage, which makes you very easily revenged.
  11. Boondocker


    Nov 6, 2009
    I was actually thinking about Pursuit+Dark Gem, but there arent really any good users in Ou. Hitmontop may be able to use it in the lower tiers to hit things with a boosted pursuit that like to switch out of Close Combat, but its probably still too weak.
  12. Boondocker


    Nov 6, 2009
    What do you guys thing about this?

    @Normal Gem
    Adament Nature
    ~Dragon Dance
    ~Outrage/Dragon Claw
    ~Waterfall/Fire Punch/Eq/Whatever

    Basically this plays like normal Dragon Dance Dragonite, except its a stronger revenge killer due to a stronger initial Extremespeed. Also, attacking will not break Multiscale, which is an advantage over Life Orb. Here are some calcs:

    252Atk Normal Gem +1 Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs 4HP/0Def Latios: 87% - 103%. Very good chance for a Ko after Rocks. Life Orb does 76% - 89%.

    252Atk Normal Gem +1 Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs 4HP/0Def Venusaur: 85% - 100%. No Venusaur, you are not breaking my Multiscale.

    252Atk Normal Gem +1 Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs 4HP/0Def Salamence: 79% - 93%. Guarenteed Ko after Rocks

    252Atk Normal Gem +1 Dragonite (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed vs 4HP/0Def Rotom-W : 85% - 101%. With Sr it does a minimum of 97.5%.

    You still aren't beating Mamoswine, Genesect and the like, but Normal Gem has deffinate advantages over other items.
  13. Gafgarion


    Jul 17, 2012
    I remember when I was still somewhat active on the ladder, I had Charizard on my team and used the standard set but later on, I swapped out his Choice Scarf for a Fire Gem.

    I found it a lot more effective to use since it gave Charizard a nice boost in power while giving him the flexibility to deal with threats like Heatran. I wonder if an Expert Belt would've done just as well though.
  14. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn a e s t h e t i c
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Mar 17, 2012
    Only problem there being that Charizard is bad, any way you look at it.

    Hey guys, another generic Gem set that works:

    Breloom @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
    - Spore
    - Bullet Seed
    - Mach Punch
    - Swords Dance

    This is a really great alternative to the standard Life Orb because it lets you kill stuff that you normally wouldn't have been able to kill with LO. Not going to post calcs right now because I feel the level of alcohol in my system would make them incorrect, but I know the Gem is really helpful in a bunch of common scenarios (free one-time CB never disappoints), and the loss of power from Bullet Seed isn't very noticeable since you're mostly spamming Mach Punch anyways. Give it a shot etc.
  15. Joel


    May 15, 2009
    This is just for shits 'n' giggles.

    Togekiss + Hustle + ExtremeSpeed + Normal Gem versus the Lati Twins.....

    v. 4/0/0 Latias Damage: 195 - 229 of 302 HP 64% - 75%

    v. 4/0/0 Latios Damage: 214 - 253 of 302 HP 70% - 83%

    v. 4/0/0 Latias After +1 Atk from Work Up Damage: 291 - 343 of 302 HP 96% - 113% (Good chance for a OHKO)

    v. 4/0/0 Latios After +1 Atk from Work Up Damage: 321 - 378 of 302 HP 106% - 125% (OHKO)
  16. LordAlpaca


    Sep 26, 2012
    Double dance rock gem Terrakion is IMO best set, as LO is not needed for power and it helps storm past usual counters.

    One set that can do well in any tier is the standard Acroblimp, which I have used to some success even in OU. It's a bit like an offensive sableye. Drifblim is also the only poke where a gem has 3 uses: Acrobatics, powering up STAB and unburden.

    Drifblim @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 252 Atk / 200 Spe / 52 HP
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -sAtk)
    -Destiny Bond
    -Substitute / Shadow Ball

    Another niche it has is it can have the speed of Venusaur in the sun, so more speed can be added if your wish is to outspeed and kill Venusaur.
  17. LordAlpaca


    Sep 26, 2012
    I think the CB set is still superior in most cases as Espeed is just for revenging, as Dnite won't want to stay in on what comes out next. The ability to switch moves doesn't quite make up for the power.

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