I never said that accuracy=usefulness. The big thing I don't like about Charge Beam is 1)It only has a 70% chance to get the boost. That's all well and good, might even earn a use on some mons that want to do some damage wile boosting...but then there's 2) 90% accuracy, meaning there's a chance you could miss at a crucial moment(Thus failing to get the boost OR do damage), so I think even Meditate outclasses it as it is.
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Genesect
- Thread starter Ad Terminum
- Start date
IMO, charge beam is only viable on Magnezone...nuff said. :D
Seriously, for late game sweeping charge beam can be pretty useful. You set up on ferrothorn and you kill the next pokemon that comes in because you can get as many boosts as you want. Nice deal.
Charge beam on jolteon could be an option but only for batton pass. I prefer the scarf,specs or even the sub+3 attaks versions
Seriously, for late game sweeping charge beam can be pretty useful. You set up on ferrothorn and you kill the next pokemon that comes in because you can get as many boosts as you want. Nice deal.
Charge beam on jolteon could be an option but only for batton pass. I prefer the scarf,specs or even the sub+3 attaks versions
Then ill just say it strengthens DragMag, it doesnt make dragons weaker (imo)
I was talking about the Sub Cm set witch is nowhere near outclassed. And all you can really do is U-turn out of the sub and take even more Stealth Rock damage.
Hydreigon is a worse Salamence, minus the Sr weakness...theres really no denying that and i dont feel like that killed my credibility.
And i would use Sub Latias over Hydriegon because Latias is actually fast and gets a boosting move...i never said Latias outclasses Hydreigon, they play differently.
Genes biggest problem is hazzards, and being flat out walled. You have to give it wish support or it wont pull its weight against defensive teams. I wouldnt call it the best pokemon, but its a nice addition.
Could you elaborate then? How is Hydreigon a bad Salamence?
Salamence is a boosting sweeper while Hydreigon is a wallbreaker. Hydreigon is bulkier and has better typing than Salamence or Lati@s, with a much better movepool to boot. Unlike Salamence, Hydreigon can survive an Ice Shard and KO Mamoswine, and isn't trapped by Pursuit like Lati@s. Also, Tyranitar and Heatran can't switch in on Hydreigon's Draco Meteor for fear of Focus Blast/Superpower. So how is Hydreigon outclassed?
I don't know why you're comparing Salamence and Hydreigon when they both do two different things. Hydreigon's bulk is what separates it from other Dragons, as well as an abnormally large movepool.
In terms of dealing with Genesect, they both have their own merit. +Speed Nature Scarf Salamence will always outspeed Scarf Genesect, but you have to be wary of spamming Outrage, as Genesect can switch in after you've killed something and easily revenge you. Hydreigon on the other hand has enough bulk to switch in and take multiple Thunderbolts / Flamethrowers, as well as being able to Roost off the damage. Should Genesect switch into Hydreigon, it has to fear Hydreigon setting up a Substitute and then Hydreigon being able to KO with a Fire move the next turn.
Keeping on topic, I think the one thing that really lets Genesect down is that base 99 Speed. Not being able to outspeed Scarf base 100s such as Jirachi, Victini and Salamence in particular is pretty annoying, especially when all of them can dispose of Genesect with the correct move.
In terms of dealing with Genesect, they both have their own merit. +Speed Nature Scarf Salamence will always outspeed Scarf Genesect, but you have to be wary of spamming Outrage, as Genesect can switch in after you've killed something and easily revenge you. Hydreigon on the other hand has enough bulk to switch in and take multiple Thunderbolts / Flamethrowers, as well as being able to Roost off the damage. Should Genesect switch into Hydreigon, it has to fear Hydreigon setting up a Substitute and then Hydreigon being able to KO with a Fire move the next turn.
Keeping on topic, I think the one thing that really lets Genesect down is that base 99 Speed. Not being able to outspeed Scarf base 100s such as Jirachi, Victini and Salamence in particular is pretty annoying, especially when all of them can dispose of Genesect with the correct move.
On paper yes, but in practice it's really not that big of a deal. Scarf Rachi is rare, Scarf Victini is even rarer and while +1 Mence is definitely a threat, at least Gene can take a +1 Outrage which is more than what most scarfers can handle imo. In a typically battle, its outspeeding pretty much everything.
I actually like the fact that Genesect has 99 speed. Otherwise, I would probably be flipping coins like mad and deciding whether I should switch out vs a scafed 100. This way, you actually know what will hard counter it and what it can outspeed and kill.
I have to say that quick attack on banded genesect is actually useful...i've had two battles so far where i only won due to having quick attack in the clutch.
The banded set is working wonders for me on my Volt-Turn team.
Chandelure shits all over this mon though, I had one in my sights as the last mon in my opponents team and switched in my Chandelure just to see for myself how it handles it. STAB Bug Buzz and the special Download boost barely took 30% off which was funny considering how frail Chandy is.
Chandelure shits all over this mon though, I had one in my sights as the last mon in my opponents team and switched in my Chandelure just to see for myself how it handles it. STAB Bug Buzz and the special Download boost barely took 30% off which was funny considering how frail Chandy is.
If you were to consider Choice Specs and Stealth Rock, then you're looking at a clean 2HKO and will expose your Chandelure's item if you outspeed with Choice Scarf. However, you can always manipulate your EV spread so Genesect's Download will boost Attack instead, but temptation to U-turn is almost a given in that scenario. 90/90 defenses isn't as frail as one would first think.
Mind you, Chandelure's a Pokemon who is 4x resistant to Genesect's Bug Buzz/U-turn.
Sprocket
P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n
If Bulbapedia is to be believed, an English-language Genesect is going to be released via WiFi on October 7 for BW2.
Does Flame Charge have any specific advantages over Rock Polish? The only thing I can think of is that Rock Polish can be Taunted, but honestly the chances of it being Taunted are slim to none. It's just such a weak move, hardly even worth the cost of not outspeeding any other >100 Scarfers.
The only advantage I can see it having is breaking weak subs/sashes and dealing some damage to fire-weak 'mons; but at the cost of being outsped by every +100 scarfer ever so I would personally stick to Rock Polish.
I've been noticing an influx of Scarf Infernape recently, which obviously makes Genesect's job more difficult, especially since outside of Hidden Power or Techno Blaster (lolyeahright) he has no way of KOing a healthy Infernape. How have you guys been dealing with this/how would you deal with it if it came up?
And the Tyranitar with Pursuit enters.
I rather lose a Gengar than a genesect
I do the same with Scarf Jirachi and Fire Punch. So satisfying.
Temp V1
Movin' at the speed of life and I can't slow down
I can definitely see Gengar working quite nicely to grab the surprise KO turn 1, although as Forte said Tyranitar can then just come in and KO with Pursuit. Granted you won't always be facing teams with Tyranitar, but when you do you'll also lose a mon straight up. Although I have to say Genesect is generally quite a lot more valuable than Gengar.
Jirachi on the other hand is great. Choice Scarf Jirachis aren't super rare, but it is most certainly not the set that people will expect turn 1 of a match. They'll assume you're going to set up rocks, so just nabbing the attack raise and then U-Turning out. I'm assuming with that Jirachi you'd need an EV spread of 252 Atk / 252 SPE / 4 SDEF so that Download still provides the Attack boost, thus not alerting your opponent to the fact that its not the traditional specially defensive variant.
ScarfRachi can also just cause a lot of annoyance for teams in general if played right, so I can definitely see it becoming more prominent in the metagame as a semi-counter to Genesect.
Temp V1
Movin' at the speed of life and I can't slow down
A lot of Tornadus-Ts already run Heat Wave, and it is actually expected on most of them, so it doesn't really have a surprise factor. Also there is absolutely no reason to run HP-Fire on Tornadus-T as it already has a 30 higher BP move in Heat Wave, and with 90 accuracy it should still hit when you need it, and as you mentioned HP-Ice is much more valuable.
The main problem with your idea is that Tornadus-T would have to be scarfed to outspeed Genesect, which isn't bad at all. However in general, people are not staying in with Genesect versus Tornadus-T, unless they know 100% they outspeed. There are almost never going to be situations where you get people staying in with Genesect turn 1 versus Tornadus-T, unless perhaps you have an inexperienced opponent.
i think scarf nadus-t is rare enough that you'd catch genesect by surprise if you led with tornadus. i'd generally rather u-turn on tornadus than hard switch out of it; the scarf would be a bigtime surprise kill
Temp V1
Movin' at the speed of life and I can't slow down
Yeah I know what you're saying, but ScarfNadus-T is becoming slightly more common, at least in my past 50 odd matches. Personally when I run Genesect I tend not to take all that many risks with it, if I see certain things on my opponents team. If I was to lead with Genesect and they were to lead with Tornadus-T, I've seen enough ScarfNadus-Ts that I'll just hard switch out, even if I'm 90% sure it isn't scarfed, because I really wouldn't want to risk losing Genesect on turn 1. Especially if it threatens my opponent. Odds are you're opponent will switch Tornadus-T out if its not scarfed, because it isn't going to like a T-Bolt or Ice Beam, so if you've bothed switched you now know that its almost certainly not scarfed, and you haven't lost any momentum. Unless on the double switch you end up with like Mamoswine vs Salamence.
But if you feel like going for a potential surprise kill every so often, ScarfNadus-T leads could do the job quite well against less experienced players.