Genesect

[BocciasBattles]

The best version of Genesect has to be the rain specs variant, just because of it's surprise value and the fact that it has all the power of the above sets, just 100% accurate thunder rather than a weaker thunderbolt, plus the scarf isn't needed due to Genesect's usable speed stat. Also this rock polish life orb thing that I and others tried when genesect was first released: let's admit it, it sucks now. Genesect benefits much more from straight up more speed or more importantly an even higher special attack stat coupled with download, effectively giving you +2 in sp.atk if you get the sp.atk boost and carry specs, and that will always be better than rock polish genesect, but I guess it's all up to people's preferences I suppose (set up sweepers really aren't my thing)

 

[Schpoonman]

Actually, Specs plus a +1 boost is a 2.25x boost. The math comes out to 1.5x1.5, which is 2.25. This was the case I ended up having a lot with Banded Conkeldurr when Guts activated.

 

[Duck Chris]

Ran into a sashed lead set today with HP ground. Completely destroyed my usual mind games and I lost my heatran then half my team. It might have some viability on those predicting the usual scarfed u-turn lead.

 

[Blinder]

Wow, and to think the first time I saw it I thought it looked dumb.
With the American games coming out soon, I really want to make a physical set for this thing with an event coming for it. I'm thinking something like this:
Genesect @Life orb
Jolly Nature
4 hp/252 attack/252 speed
-X-scissor
-Iron Head
-Flame Charge
-Shadow Claw/Zen Headbutt/Explosion/U-turn

I feel this would be effective outside of a rain team, or maybe even on a sun team to cover weak ends.
My creative mind is also interested in Simple beam. Run that on a sort of suprise support set, or something like this:
Genesect @Leftovers
Jolly nature
252 HP/4 Attack/252 Speed
-Simple Beam
-Thunder wave/Toxic
-Magic Coat
-U-turn

This set could really mess with Gliscor. Nail one simple beam on the sneaky bastard, and Poison Heal is gone in the wind. Magic coat for screwing around, and max speed so that one can actually fake an offensive set long enough to get a potential target out.
Opinions?

 

[Joel]

Wow, and to think the first time I saw it I thought it looked dumb.
With the American games coming out soon, I really want to make a physical set for this thing with an event coming for it. I'm thinking something like this:
Genesect @Life orb
Jolly Nature
4 hp/252 attack/252 speed
-X-scissor
-Iron Head
-Flame Charge
-Shadow Claw/Zen Headbutt/Explosion/U-turn

I feel this would be effective outside of a rain team, or maybe even on a sun team to cover weak ends.
My creative mind is also interested in Simple beam. Run that on a sort of suprise support set, or something like this:
Genesect @Leftovers
Jolly nature
252 HP/4 Attack/252 Speed
-Simple Beam
-Thunder wave/Toxic
-Magic Coat
-U-turn

This set could really mess with Gliscor. Nail one simple beam on the sneaky bastard, and Poison Heal is gone in the wind. Magic coat for screwing around, and max speed so that one can actually fake an offensive set long enough to get a potential target out.
Opinions?

I think Flame Charge would be too much a liability on Genesect. It's base power is weak, and it can learn Rock Polish anyways.

You would really be hurting also since Heatran could come in on you, sponge the attack, and get a boost from you, as well, while you get nothing in return.

Don't use Flame Charge on Genesect.

 

[tehy]

Wow, and to think the first time I saw it I thought it looked dumb.
With the American games coming out soon, I really want to make a physical set for this thing with an event coming for it. I'm thinking something like this:
Genesect @Life orb
Jolly Nature
4 hp/252 attack/252 speed
-X-scissor
-Iron Head
-Flame Charge
-Shadow Claw/Zen Headbutt/Explosion/U-turn

I feel this would be effective outside of a rain team, or maybe even on a sun team to cover weak ends.
My creative mind is also interested in Simple beam. Run that on a sort of suprise support set, or something like this:
Genesect @Leftovers
Jolly nature
252 HP/4 Attack/252 Speed
-Simple Beam
-Thunder wave/Toxic
-Magic Coat
-U-turn

This set could really mess with Gliscor. Nail one simple beam on the sneaky bastard, and Poison Heal is gone in the wind. Magic coat for screwing around, and max speed so that one can actually fake an offensive set long enough to get a potential target out.
Opinions?

For the first set, mostly what joel said. Flame charge supposedly would give you a way to hit steels, but not a great one-just go mixed with flamethrower and call it a day, double damage means that even with max investment and a download boost, you should do about the same. Physically boosting in general is a terrible idea, it's not strong enough to break things.

As for the second set...
If you want to "mess with" gliscor, ice beam him. This assuming that gliscor feels like switching in. Simple beam only lasts until he switches out anyways. Magic coat is all right, i guess. It's possible that heatran/t-tar might try to set up rocks in your face, but the problem being is, you could just run a set that rofl-stomps them anyhow, and heatran might get pissed and decide to toast you. As for thunder wave/toxic, eh, if you've got nothing better to do. Again, a single surprise would work. U-turn is fine. The whole set reeks of "surprise", except genesect can run far more effective surprise sets. At best, you've gotten a hazard and maybe paralysed something, then that's about it for the match.

 

[Blinder]

For the first set, mostly what joel said. Flame charge supposedly would give you a way to hit steels, but not a great one-just go mixed with flamethrower and call it a day, double damage means that even with max investment and a download boost, you should do about the same. Physically boosting in general is a terrible idea, it's not strong enough to break things.

As for the second set...
If you want to "mess with" gliscor, ice beam him. This assuming that gliscor feels like switching in. Simple beam only lasts until he switches out anyways. Magic coat is all right, i guess. It's possible that heatran/t-tar might try to set up rocks in your face, but the problem being is, you could just run a set that rofl-stomps them anyhow, and heatran might get pissed and decide to toast you. As for thunder wave/toxic, eh, if you've got nothing better to do. Again, a single surprise would work. U-turn is fine. The whole set reeks of "surprise", except genesect can run far more effective surprise sets. At best, you've gotten a hazard and maybe paralysed something, then that's about it for the match.

Ah. I assumed that Simple beam lasts after switching. I also realize that flame charge isn't a great choice either now.

I actually started testing this guy, and he is a BEAST. I have him running

Genesect @Life Orb
Timid Nature
252 Special Attack/4 S. Defense/ 252 Speed
-Bug Buzz
-Ice Beam
-Thunder
-Giga drain

This is on a rain team BTW. Most is self explanatory. Giga drain is there to take on Swampert/Gastrodon, and to potentially recover HP. The 4 in s defense is so that opposing Genesect can't get a special attack boost off him.
This thing rocks planets.

 

[FrostFire]

Well, after fighting Genesect in four out of every five or so battles on PS! for a while now, I can safely say that this thing is a boss. Kind of funny that, because I remember thinking early on in BW1, when gen 5 was just coming out, that it's base 99 speed + shallow physical movepool would let it down, and it would suck. Well, looks like I just got served some humble pie.

But anyway.

I generally find that, with my Stall and Semi-stall teams, Genesect's most devastating set is something along the lines of Life Orb + 3 attacks + U-turn. The problem is that it hits so many things so hard (especially after a download boost) that it becomes hard to wall, unless you have Blissey/ Chansey/ Jirachi in rain. I've found that it's ability to switch attacks (unlike Choice) allows it to threaten my teams so much more effectively - and if hazards are up, just switching to take a hit can become painful.

On the other hand, Scarf sets are relatively easy to wall; this is because, while Genesect has fantastic coverage, it can only choose one attack. If you can scout the attack with Protect or make a smart prediction, then you can simply wall it with the appropriate resist. U-turn + hazards is still annoying though.

However, that's just what I've experienced with more stall based teams. I expect the reverse would kind of be true for more offensive teams though; that 99 speed sans scarf will hurt against a team of fast power-houses. However, with a scarf, and with that coverage and power, (plus the general frailty of offensive teams) really makes scarf sets scarier.

I guess the main thing that has amazed me about Genesect is that, despite a somewhat shallow movepool in terms of options overall, it actually has surprising diversity on the whole. The way you beat individual sets is kind of different, so you need to first scout what it's running, and then act accordingly.

 

[mrb]

I think that a non-Scarf full-out attacking Genesect is better off using an Expert Belt rather than a Life Orb. Expert Belt can bluff a Scarf and can still add some power because of Genesect's amazing coverage. Plus, Genesect has a great defensive typing with pretty good defensive stats, so preserving its bulk is important as well.

 

[doughboy]

For awhile Specs Genesect was my favorite set easily due to the brute power it has behind its Bug Buzzes. However I have come to find that Life Orb is the superior option for the special attacking sets since it really allows you to abuse that excellent coverage. In exchange for a 20% drop (although I think it is slightly more because of download's mechanics) you can make sure your opponent can not "play around" (gosh i hate that term) Genesect.

Genesect @ Life Orb
Trait: Download
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Rock Polish

My new favorite is definitely the Rock Polish set with Life Orb and I believe it is his best set outside of Choice Scarf. IMO its a large disservice if you do not run Bug Buzz on this set and use Flamethrower over it. I took a page out of playing with Conkeldurr and Breloom where you can spam your STAB move early game in order to lay the hurt on the opponent, you don't necessarily have to boost. It really augments Genect's power to make it much more useful in the early game and to weaken its own checks.

Speaking of Bug Buzz, I have found that it has not compounded problems confronting any Steel-type's. Note the following calculations are done with a +1 special attack Genesect with a Timid Nature. Jirachi is 2HKO'ed with Bug Buzz after SR, the same as Flamethrower. Ferrothorn is also 2Hkoed by Bug Buzz! While inconvient Scizor is 2HKO'ed by Thunderbolt, however it is OHKO'ed by Thunder after SR. Considering that Genesect is going to be late game sweeping and has spammed his STAB Bug Buzz against the opposing team, many of these already have been weakened. Of course, Bug Buzz is stronger vs neutral targets as well.

Essentially STAB Bug Buzz makes it so you have a super powerful Specs user (who normally abuse their one stab move) that can change to a late game sweeper at a moments notice. The coverage afforded by BoltBeam is too good to pass up (slaying Dragons is nice). Overall Bug Buzz>>>>>>>Flamethrower.

Also of extreme importance: Life Orb Bug Buzz OHKO'ed Deoxys-D *with a +1 boost. Rock Polish Genesect can essentially take a massive poop on these HO teams.

Observe

zabuza568 joined.
new team joined.
Format: OU
Rated battle
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: OHKO Clause
Rule: Evasion Clause



Battle between zabuza568 and new team started!
zabuza568 sent out Deoxys-Defense!
new team sent out Genesect!
Genesect's Download raised its Special Attack!
The foe's Deoxys-Defense is exerting its pressure!
Turn 1
Genesect used Rock Polish!
Genesect's Speed sharply rose!
The foe's Deoxys-Defense used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around your team!
Turn 2
Genesect used Bug Buzz!
It's super effective! The foe's Deoxys-Defense lost 100% of its health!
Genesect lost some of its HP!
The foe's Deoxys-Defense fainted!
zabuza568 sent out Strongbre (Breloom)!
Turn 3
The foe's Strongbre used Mach Punch!
Genesect lost 52% of its health!
The foe's Strongbre lost some of its HP!
Genesect used Ice Beam!
It's super effective! The foe's Strongbre lost 90% of its health!
Genesect lost some of its HP!
The foe's Strongbre fainted!
zabuza568 sent out Politoed!
The foe's Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!
Turn 4
zabuza568 called Politoed back!
zabuza568 sent out Jolteon!
Genesect used Thunderbolt!
The foe's Jolteon restored HP using its Volt Absorb!
Turn 5
Genesect used Bug Buzz!
The foe's Jolteon lost 100% of its health!
Genesect lost some of its HP!
The foe's Jolteon fainted!
zabuza568 forfeited.
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[superbadd]

Why timid though? What does it outspeed? Why not modest for more power?

 

[Electrolyte]

Genesect is one of those pokemon that look real good on paper but I guess are just average during actual battles. The team that I'm using right now looks pretty weak to Genesect, as each one of them can be OHKO'd by a +1 SE move. However, the reason why Genesect isn't fit for Ubers is because it relies so much on choiced items to work effectively. Genesect really just isn't fast enough to pull off an effective offensive set that poses pressure against opposing teams, so it usually carries a scarf to remedy that problem. Then, it gets the speed it needs, but it loses its ability to truly use its wide coverage- and although it is a great U-Turner it is worn down very quickly by Stealth Rock. I've seen RP sets, yes, but it pretty hard for Genesect to set up enough boosts to sweep without it being crippled or KO'd. And although it gets Download, it's still kind of weak, and definitely can not be compared with the behemoths such as SpecsTios or Bandorus.

I'd say the real Trick with dealing with Genesect is to a.) get SR up early and b.) know its moveset. Stealth Rock is pretty vital to countering Genesect, because it switches in and out an average of 3-4 times each match. Hazards really wear Genesect down because of how much it likes to pivot- which, to add to how to play WITH Genesect, means that spinners are really important if you plan on revenging or sweeping with Genesect. Still, however, most spinners don't exactly have good synergy with Genesect. Due to its for defenses when uninvested, nearly any moderately powerful STAB neutral move can deal heavy damage. Foretress can spin for Genesect, but it just compounds on its mighty x4 weakness to fire, and if you add a fure resistant pokemon like Heatran, other problems will start popping up. Donphan is in a similar position- water type moves will screw them both over, especially Scald because Genesect is crippled heavily by burns. Starmie and Genesect show a weakness to Electric, and because Volt Switch/Thunder are the most common electric moves in the tier, it won't be hard to either switch to gain momentum or just flat out KO one of them.

Hazards are a really big problem, and if you can get those down, it'll be a lot easier. Another important thing is to know Genesect's set. It might sound trivial to say that you'd treat a pokemon's scarf set different from how you'd treat a pokemon's boosting set. However, this should be even more emphasized for Genesect, which really relies on those crucial SE hits in order to deal real damage. This makes the scarf set a bit predictable; and though experienced players will think things through and try to come up with a good play, Genesect's scarf set will always suffer from prediction-itis. It's RP set is hugely different, however. For one, special walls all become much more effective- due to Genesect's lack of a physical move, Blissey, Chansey, and SpDef Jirachi can all tank hits and reply accordingly. However, with the RP, prediction is no longer as useful, because getting Lando-T in on a Tbolt won't matter- they'll just outspeed amd KO you with Ice Beam. Against a scarf set, however, you'd want to be able to predict a Tbolt, and then switch into Lando to apply revenging pressure. It's important to know Genesect's set, because the differences are so extreme that a mess up could cost you a match.

Offensively, Genesect players should try to cover those weaknesses as much as possible. Because spinners are really important, you'll often have to put one in anyway, and then let the rest of your team patch up. Because it us easy to play against Genesect when you know its set, Genesect players should try to be mysterious- make some unpredictable plays, feign choice, or just plain outpredict. Don't forget to apply offensive pressure, and not let your opponent get those opportunities to have an advantage over your ancient bug.

 

[doughboy]

Why timid though? What does it outspeed? Why not modest for more power?

Timid Deoxys-D for HO teams. That is one of the main reasons to carry Bug Buzz. You can run Modest, but miss out on getting Deoxys-D before it setups up a hazard. Neutral-natured base 100's are still popular too :)

 

[Taylor]

Timid Deoxys-D for HO teams. That is one of the main reasons to carry Bug Buzz. You can run Modest, but miss out on getting Deoxys-D before it setups up a hazard. Neutral-natured base 100's are still popular too :)

You know Deoxys-D generally lead off the bat where as RPGenesect is mid/late-game sweeping material. I still think Modest + Download would be more ideal for sweeping teams and not missing out on any OHKOs that would otherwise fail to faint opposing team members for lack of power.

 

[MJB]

For awhile Specs Genesect was my favorite set easily due to the brute power it has behind its Bug Buzzes. However I have come to find that Life Orb is the superior option for the special attacking sets since it really allows you to abuse that excellent coverage. In exchange for a 20% drop (although I think it is slightly more because of download's mechanics) you can make sure your opponent can not "play around" (gosh i hate that term) Genesect.

Genesect @ Life Orb
Trait: Download
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Rock Polish

My new favorite is definitely the Rock Polish set with Life Orb and I believe it is his best set outside of Choice Scarf. IMO its a large disservice if you do not run Bug Buzz on this set and use Flamethrower over it. I took a page out of playing with Conkeldurr and Breloom where you can spam your STAB move early game in order to lay the hurt on the opponent, you don't necessarily have to boost. It really augments Genect's power to make it much more useful in the early game and to weaken its own checks.

Speaking of Bug Buzz, I have found that it has not compounded problems confronting any Steel-type's. Note the following calculations are done with a +1 special attack Genesect with a Timid Nature. Jirachi is 2HKO'ed with Bug Buzz after SR, the same as Flamethrower. Ferrothorn is also 2Hkoed by Bug Buzz! While inconvient Scizor is 2HKO'ed by Thunderbolt, however it is OHKO'ed by Thunder after SR. Considering that Genesect is going to be late game sweeping and has spammed his STAB Bug Buzz against the opposing team, many of these already have been weakened. Of course, Bug Buzz is stronger vs neutral targets as well.

Essentially STAB Bug Buzz makes it so you have a super powerful Specs user (who normally abuse their one stab move) that can change to a late game sweeper at a moments notice. The coverage afforded by BoltBeam is too good to pass up (slaying Dragons is nice). Overall Bug Buzz>>>>>>>Flamethrower.

Also of extreme importance: Life Orb Bug Buzz OHKO'ed Deoxys-D *with a +1 boost. Rock Polish Genesect can essentially take a massive poop on these HO teams.

Observe

zabuza568 joined.
new team joined.
Format: OU
Rated battle
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: OHKO Clause
Rule: Evasion Clause



Battle between zabuza568 and new team started!
zabuza568 sent out Deoxys-Defense!
new team sent out Genesect!
Genesect's Download raised its Special Attack!
The foe's Deoxys-Defense is exerting its pressure!
Turn 1
Genesect used Rock Polish!
Genesect's Speed sharply rose!
The foe's Deoxys-Defense used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around your team!
Turn 2
Genesect used Bug Buzz!
It's super effective! The foe's Deoxys-Defense lost 100% of its health!
Genesect lost some of its HP!
The foe's Deoxys-Defense fainted!
zabuza568 sent out Strongbre (Breloom)!
Turn 3
The foe's Strongbre used Mach Punch!
Genesect lost 52% of its health!
The foe's Strongbre lost some of its HP!
Genesect used Ice Beam!
It's super effective! The foe's Strongbre lost 90% of its health!
Genesect lost some of its HP!
The foe's Strongbre fainted!
zabuza568 sent out Politoed!
The foe's Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!
Turn 4
zabuza568 called Politoed back!
zabuza568 sent out Jolteon!
Genesect used Thunderbolt!
The foe's Jolteon restored HP using its Volt Absorb!
Turn 5
Genesect used Bug Buzz!
The foe's Jolteon lost 100% of its health!
Genesect lost some of its HP!
The foe's Jolteon fainted!
zabuza568 forfeited.
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zabuza568's rating: 1588 → 1562
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(+10 for winning)
zabuza568 left.

I've been using a very similar set lately (but with flamethrower over bug buzz /shame)

I have found that modest with EV's of 136 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 116 Spd is best as the extra bulk is always nice. I dont find it difficult at all to get a RP boost so the less speed isn't really a problem. With 116 in speed I still outspeed everything that is commonly scarfed (I think everything Tornadus-i and down)

I can't take credit for the EV spread though as I just ripped it from the analysis that is in the works lol

I will give Bug Buzz a try though cheers

 

[Jimbon]

Genesect is one of those pokemon that look real good on paper but I guess are just average during actual battles. The team that I'm using right now looks pretty weak to Genesect, as each one of them can be OHKO'd by a +1 SE move. However, the reason why Genesect isn't fit for Ubers is because it relies so much on choiced items to work effectively. Genesect really just isn't fast enough to pull off an effective offensive set that poses pressure against opposing teams, so it usually carries a scarf to remedy that problem. Then, it gets the speed it needs, but it loses its ability to truly use its wide coverage- and although it is a great U-Turner it is worn down very quickly by Stealth Rock. I've seen RP sets, yes, but it pretty hard for Genesect to set up enough boosts to sweep without it being crippled or KO'd. And although it gets Download, it's still kind of weak, and definitely can not be compared with the behemoths such as SpecsTios or Bandorus.

I see your point, but I'd argue that Genesect is much better than just "average". The way Genesect plays, it can play many different roles, not just the scarf set everyone is hyping about. Specs / Band variants can be sent in and are instantly at +2 with the right boost from Download, coupled with Genesect's great offensive stats and exceptional coverage, not a lot really wants to switch into that. Rock Polish Genesect murders offense, while the bread and butter scarf set easily fits onto practically any team. But yeah, unlike Latios or Landorus, Genesect's main role isn't wallbreaking, unlike the aforementioned mons and with a Download boost it hits just as hard and even harder than both with a Choice item. You're also forgetting that Genesect isn't Pursuit weak, has very limited counters, isn't as priority weak and has access to U-Turn. Latios has solid counters in Jirachi and Tyranitar, but what does Genesect have? Heatran is considered the main counter to Genesect, but Genesect can viably run Hidden Power [Ground] to beat Heatran while not worrying about losing coverage -- that's what separates Genesect and Latios. It's also worth noting that Genesect can actually U-Turn out of anything that wants to switch into Genesect, turning your Genesect counters into complete liabilities. Given that U-Turn is running on pretty much every set except Rock Polish, Genesect can essentially disregard it's counters, because if you're running some sort of offensive partner with Genesect that beats its counters, then it's effectively uncounterable. Latios cannot simply bypass Jirachi or Tyranitar so easily, and needs more than one switch in to do so. This is why Stall has such a terrible time in this metagame, because everything that wants to switch into Genesect is easily beaten by something every team will have some answer for. (Genesect + Dugtrio, Genesect + Magnezone, Genesect + Keldeo, etc).

I think it's also worth mentioning just how Genesect affects the metagame as a whole, what Genesect is doing exactly. Well, like I said earlier, Genesect can fit on any type of team. Genesect can act as a failsafe Pokemon for any team due to the plethora of sets it can run. It can work on stall because stall with generally appreciate some form of offensive to break through certain walls. Balance appreciates a lategame sweeper to benefit from hazards. Most importantly though, I've found Genesect to work the best on offense teams. The way Genesect plays, it forces so many switches, even when your opponent knows your set. Scarf Genesect is the best user of Choice Scarf in the tier imo, and does so many things. The aforementioned free switches it gives on offense are great when you will likely be running some sort of setup sweeper / choice band/specs users alongside Genesect. Genesect is also a fantastic scarfer in general. Given how easily it can run that BoltBeam + U-Turn + Bug Buzz / Flamethrower set, you already have unresisted coverage coming off base 120 offenses. Genesect is not priority weak (Bullet Punch, Extremespeed, Ice Shard), Genesect has a useful Dragon resist, and it synergises so well with a lot of common 'mons you'd find on offensive teams.

You also go on to say about how to deal with Genesect, and the way you've listed to deal with it is hardly reliable. You get Stealth Rock up against it, great, it dies in 8 switch ins. That doesn't exactly hinder Genesect, and it isn't stopping it sweeping. Even common hazard setters (Deoxys-D, Ferrothorn, Forretress) have a bad matchup against Genesect, so you really can't promise hazards 100% of the time against teams using Genesect. I'd agree with you when you say you need to know the set to effectively deal with it. Given Genesect has unresisted coverage, you really need to know all of it's coverage moves before switching into it. I've found myself in situations where I'm against a +2 Speed Rock Polish Genesect, and it can sweep my team if it has Thunderbolt over Flamethrower or whatever. The variation of coverage moves really sets it aside from any other sweeper, because even a simple Life Orb 4 Attacks Genesect has no safe switch ins depending on it's coverage moves, and that's something you need to scout for. Losing Flamethrower means Ferrothorn can live a hit and Thunder Wave you, losing Thunderbolt means ~65% Keldeo can switch in against you and live a hit, losing Bug Buzz means Reuniclus can use you as setup fodder. As for Genesect's position in the metagame, I'd say it's definitely one of the best (if not, THE best) Pokemon in the tier right now. It threatens literally everything and when you get to the point where some Pokemon have to run 4 Special Defence EVs or whatever to check Genesect, you know it has a big impact and is something every team should have some way to deal with it.

 

[Huntofthelion]

After playing a good amount of matches the past few days to learn the new (to me) metagame I'm really underwhelmed by Genesect. Don't get me wrong, it's good and I use one myself, but it's really far from dominant and isn't all that difficult to play around. The only two sets that even seem usable to me are the Scarf and Rock Polish sets, as being base 99 speed without a boost is really detrimental.

The scarf set is by far the more common of the two from what I've seen, and it's cool for scouting or cleaning up, but it doesn't really dominate matches. It's U-turn isn't that hole punching force that Scizor's is and it fails to out speed the base 100s, which is pretty important for it to function as a revenge killer since it lacks priority. I've been mostly using mine to lead off matches and grab back momentum after something dies, which is where I think it really shines, and then trying to grab a kill or two mid game if I can get a special attack boost and my opponents team is lacking resistance to one of the coverage moves. That said, with the metagame being so fast paced I've kinda found it to be a bit of a liability in some matches as you have to be pretty precise with it to avoid giving up momentum and the rewards for playing well with it aren't as good as some other prediction heavy Pokemon in my eyes. Of course spamming U-turn is generally pretty safe, but it's also really predictable and I've had it go both ways where that U-turn is punished because it didn't really threaten whatever was out without using a coverage move. I'm just starting to feel like this set's not worth it's downsides, probably going to swap it out for something else. If it didn't have steel typing, and therefore a dragon resist, it would probably be long gone off my team.

As for the RP set, I haven't tried it but it looks like it would be pretty threatening in this metagame because as I said it's really offensive and fast paced, and being able to grab a special attack boost and then increasing your speed to basically outrun everything is really good. I haven't been swept by it yet but it has impacted my games a lot because you have to respect the threat of RP if they aren't throwing it around early game like most people do with scarf. This is definitely a set I want to try, especially with how people seem to automatically assume that every Genesect is scarfed. It's got pretty good typing for sweeping too, as it has a ton of resistances with which to set up on choice-item locked moves, as well as taking neutral or worse from the most if not all priorities. Definitely a set I want to try out very soon, so any ideas on partners or whatever else would be appreciated.

All the other Genesect sets I've seen / heard about don't seem all that viable as it's not fast enough to pull off being a mixed sweeper in my opinion, and it's move pool isn't really that expansive to give it a ton of options. Haven't tested any of them out personally, but just my thoughts based on what I've seen so far.

 

[dragonuser]

Saw some posts earlier stating that Flame Charge Genesect isn't very good, but I would disagree. While Rock Polish Genesect can offer an immediate +2 boost, it lacks in coverage. You are basically forced to choose between Flamethrower/Flash Cannon/Bug Buzz. Flame Charge Genesect can help to alleviate this issue by giving you a Fire-Type attack as your boosting move. This move not only raises your Speed stat, but also gives you extra coverage and the ability to hit Pokemon like Scizor/Ferrothorn for a lot more damage. This gives you the chance to use another coverage move, preferably Flash Cannon. Flame Charge Genesect has the potential to sweep on its own a lot easier, compared to Rock Polish which needs a lot more team support. Both sets are good, and I am not trying to say one is better than the other, rather that each set offers its own perks. Rock Polish has less trouble with revenging, but can be walled easier. While Flame Charge has more difficulty with revenge killers (only +1 Speed at a time) but once it has started its sweep, it is much more difficult to stop.

 

[BurningMan]

Flamecharge sucks it 3HKOs Ferrothorn and only 2HKOs Scizor it is out damaged by +1 Bug Buzz and Thunderbolt agianst all steels. Koing something weakend and boosting at the same time seems nice, but ultimatelly it's not worth the big speed loss since not outspeeding 100+ speed scarfers is pretty bad considering how common they are oh and you also take LO damage everytime you boost wich isn't that great.l

 

[Arcticblast]

Genesect's somewhat low attacking stats mean that it has to have a boosting item for offense with it to be viable. Scarf is just U-Turn spam, Expert Belt is best for bluffing the Scarf, Band/Specs are to hit like a truck (not a tractor trailer, just a truck), and LO is really only for Rock Polish. Taking an extra 10% just to set up is awful, and you don't even set up to your best potential.

In my opinion, Flame Charge should be left to Pokemon that don't have a better option or can afford to lose a bit of health (Heatran, Emboar, yeah just Heatran)

 

[Shurtugal]

The amount of KO's I miss on Flame Charge is sad, and really, is a waste of a move slot, and on a Pokemon like Genesect, who has amazing coverage, it just isn't worth it.


Comments on Sash Genesect? I've never tried it. Has anyone ever had success with it on a team? Discuss (please). I plan on making a team around one soon, depending on the feedback on the set.

EDIT:

For the user above me asking about RP Genesect, it's amazing. For support, I would recommend having something for Heatran that pretty much stops it's sweeps (Band Terrakion / CM Keldeo come to mind, and fight of their weather's respectively). Genesect appreciates hazard support as well, so Azelf / Deo-D / Mew / etc. are really good lead partners.

 

[Lavos]

Run enough Attack on Flame Charge Genesect, and as dragonuser said, you won't need to ditch your perfect coverage for Bug Buzz / Flash Cannon because you'll already have a decent Fire-type move. Then you can still get that great Fire / Ice / Electric coverage, plus a STAB move of your choice. I generally roll with Flash Cannon because it pops Terrakion for an OHKO, but it's a matter of personal preference, really.

I've used Sash Genesect, and while it's not the best set in its repertoire, I like it. Being able to take a huge hit and KO back against Latios, Keldeo, etc. is really nice in clutch situations, and also as a way to start the game off 6-5 in your favor!

 

[tehy]

It's not really 'decent', though. As i said earlier, RP is way better. You can certainly maybe get kills on scizor, and do some actual damage to ferro/forry, but i doubt rachi cares. And if you invest in attack, what aren't you investing in? Special attack, or speed? Bear in mind that it's only at plus one and base 97. A slower scarfer like rotom-w might decide to test its luck and hope for modest and come out good anyhow. It also makes you way easier to revenge kill, any commonly used scarfer screws you over, and avoiding this is the main DRAW of RP genesect-you can only late-game sweep now if stuff is weakened AND they lack a scarfer! I'm not even sure how much it does to ferro;it can probably get off a t-wave/leech seed anyhow, it might not even 2hitko. Forretress can't do much anyhow; and scizor might even be able to tank one. Maybe they switch into you directly;but until they know you're a boosting set, why would they do that, unless you catch them on a mispredict?

To summarize: Flame charge lets you get a couple more pokemon then you could get otherwise, and in return makes you revenge-killed by most scarfers if you don't manage to use it twice. You can invest in attack, but that takes away from something you probably need. It's not terrible, it's all right, but i'm just not a big fan.

 

[Porii Sames]

On the Flame Charge Gene scenario: when you have Speed Boosting pokes, you generally don't run Max speed. This is standard shit to be honest, so those leftover EVs are normally placed in HP. With FC you place them in attack. And now instead of running RP and Bug Buzz and 2 coverage moves, you can run Flame Charge/Ice Beam/Tbolt/Bug Buzz.

 

[tehy]

But that's because, with speed boosting pokes, it's plus TWO. But this is plus ONE, so you're outsped by even more;scarf genesect will win 100%; scarf rotom-w possibly.