Diggersby also resists Ghost/Poison
not that anyone should use diggersby for any purpose whatsoever
not that anyone should use diggersby for any purpose whatsoever
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Pokémon Gengar
- Thread starter X5Dragon
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Not really, because you're able to switch out when both Pokemon have Shadow Tag.
He has Huge Power, but the problem is he's a lower tier mon in general.
Diggersby has strikingly similar stats to Azumarill and even priority of his own... It's a shame he lacks the useful typing, though.
Normal/Ground isn't THAT terrible, you have STAB EQ which is something Azu can't claim. Also, clearly you can do some serious damage 1v1
You've got to remember though that when a pokemon mega-evolves on that first turn it uses the speed stat of the pokemon it evolved from that first turn.
If any Pokemon with decent power that can outspeed Gengar attacks first then it's dead or at the very least almost dead. Noivern is a prime example of this as well as tons of Choice Scarfed Pokemon like Latios.
Even in mega form the added defenses don't add up to much when it's HP is still only 60. I've run various calcs and it still dies to pretty much any powerful stabbed attack.
In addition, Infiltrator can hit through Substitutes, so again Noivern can smash either form with a LO/Specs Draco Meteor for the OHKO.
Feigning holding a Mega Stone is an excellent idea. Since Shadow Tag Gengar will probably be on tons of teams, as soon as it switches in your opponent will switch out to something that can counter you, while you nab a substitute. The standard BW Sub + Disable set will work just fine. Then again, you can still hold a Mega Stone but just delay your evolution.
I'd like to point out that upon Mega-Evolving, Gengar loses Levitate. Obviously it's already been realized that he'll gain a Ground weakness, but won't he also be affected by the new move Sticky Web? Since that reduces speed, he'll actually be faster if he DOESN'T Mega-Evolve when it's on the field. I think that's interesting to think about.
He'll also be able to absorb Toxic Spikes. That's a thing.
He'll also be able to absorb Toxic Spikes. That's a thing.
I included Perish Song in the Hypnosis set as a last resort move after Gengar managed to mess the opponents team or if the trapped pokemon in question is too valuable and is worth the sacrifice. Indeed, one only has to Sub, use Perish Song and then continue subbing till the opponent is dead. Protect + Sub is even better if the opponent sends out something which is faster than Gengar. I'll have to adjust the Hypnosis set to reflect these options.
Otherwise we can just make a new set with the following moveset:
Gengar@Gengarite
Timid
Max Speed and SpA EVs
Substitute
Protect
Perish Song
Shadow Ball
Otherwise we can just make a new set with the following moveset:
Gengar@Gengarite
Timid
Max Speed and SpA EVs
Substitute
Protect
Perish Song
Shadow Ball
With those stats, Gengar has better tihngs to do than subprotect stall perish song.
If you are going to do this, invest EVs so that it is bulkier. Otherwise, killing it outright with moves is better imo
Gengar @ Life Orb
4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
Timid
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
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vs
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
Sassy (+SpDef, -Speed)
Total HP = 352
Shadow Ball: 30.96 - 36.93%
Focus Blast: 62.78 - 74.71%
There's a large tree to analyze, such as leftovers recovery, protect, spikes, and stealth rock.
If Ferrothorn switches in to a shadow ball and gengar gets a minimum damage roll, then Ferro gets leftovers, then Ferro uses protect for another leftovers recovery, and then gengar gets a minimum damage focus blast... ferro survives and gets a gyro ball off EVEN IF there are spikes AND SR. This is assuming absolute minimum rolls. Ferro hangs on with 4 HP if there were spikes and SR and gengar got minimum damage rolls both times. Ferro hangs on with 70 HP if there were no hazards and gengar got minimum damage rolls both times.
However, if gengar gets max damage rolls on both attacks, then ferro dies even if there are no hazards.
If shadow ball gets the SpDef drop then ferro dies. If focus blast misses then gengar dies. If either attack crits then ferrothorn dies.
What a mess. Bottom line is, switching ferrothorn into gengar's shadow ball is a crapshoot.
4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
Timid
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
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vs
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
Sassy (+SpDef, -Speed)
Total HP = 352
Shadow Ball: 30.96 - 36.93%
Focus Blast: 62.78 - 74.71%
There's a large tree to analyze, such as leftovers recovery, protect, spikes, and stealth rock.
If Ferrothorn switches in to a shadow ball and gengar gets a minimum damage roll, then Ferro gets leftovers, then Ferro uses protect for another leftovers recovery, and then gengar gets a minimum damage focus blast... ferro survives and gets a gyro ball off EVEN IF there are spikes AND SR. This is assuming absolute minimum rolls. Ferro hangs on with 4 HP if there were spikes and SR and gengar got minimum damage rolls both times. Ferro hangs on with 70 HP if there were no hazards and gengar got minimum damage rolls both times.
However, if gengar gets max damage rolls on both attacks, then ferro dies even if there are no hazards.
If shadow ball gets the SpDef drop then ferro dies. If focus blast misses then gengar dies. If either attack crits then ferrothorn dies.
What a mess. Bottom line is, switching ferrothorn into gengar's shadow ball is a crapshoot.
If we ignore MegaGengar for a moment (let's pretend Gengarite is banned!), Assault Vest Sassy Tyranitar could be a good check:
There is one better choice if you don't mind using Sassy CB Infiltrator Spiritomb (lol)
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 250-296 (61.88 - 73.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 31-36 (7.67 - 8.91%) -- 9HKO at best
It can obviously switch in on Shadow Ball, and then take a Focus Blast to the face and kill with Crunch. Unfortunately, non-switching Pursuit with no investment is:
4 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 168-200 (64.12 - 76.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So you can't exactly win if it stays in and gets two Focus Blasts in a row. And obviously Substitute fucks this up.
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 31-36 (7.67 - 8.91%) -- 9HKO at best
It can obviously switch in on Shadow Ball, and then take a Focus Blast to the face and kill with Crunch. Unfortunately, non-switching Pursuit with no investment is:
4 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 168-200 (64.12 - 76.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So you can't exactly win if it stays in and gets two Focus Blasts in a row. And obviously Substitute fucks this up.
There is one better choice if you don't mind using Sassy CB Infiltrator Spiritomb (lol)
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 255 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 117-138 (38.48 - 45.39%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Choice Band Spiritomb Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 186-218 (70.99 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Works if you switch in on something that isn't Shadow Ball
4 Atk Choice Band Spiritomb Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 186-218 (70.99 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Works if you switch in on something that isn't Shadow Ball
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This set is so broken. Anything slower that switches into perish song will die, unless they have a phazing move. Even then, Gengar can try to get a double protect and laugh at you. Basically, nothing is safe.
What about Sableye's Prankster, there may be some viable options against a gengar with him. Taunt could prevent Substitute gengar setups leaving his mega form vulnerable
scenario:
oppo: supportMon (eg ferrothorn)
you: switch in gengar
now the oppo will probably switch out fearing a shadow tag taunt
time for you to set a free sub
so the moveset i like the most:
sub
taunt
shadow ball
sludge bomb/wave
oppo: supportMon (eg ferrothorn)
you: switch in gengar
now the oppo will probably switch out fearing a shadow tag taunt
time for you to set a free sub
so the moveset i like the most:
sub
taunt
shadow ball
sludge bomb/wave
Bold Nature Sableye:
Will-O-Wisp
Recover
Taunt
Foul Play 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Sableye could trap gengar in taunt with its prankster ability before it can even get a sub out
Yeah I know there are counters to this thing, but I was just pointing out that is very likely to get a free sub switching in on supportMon.
And I think this could work well even in ubers...
And I think this could work well even in ubers...
Yeah I understand, either way Gengar and Mega Gengar, are definitely not to be taken lightly in this generation
An npc just told me ghost types aren't affected by shadow tag and other trapping moves anymore. I haven't tested it for myself, but it's worth mentioning because it's not mentioned in the op.
Also, unless my math sucks (which it does) life orb gengar actually hits harder than mega gengar.
Also, unless my math sucks (which it does) life orb gengar actually hits harder than mega gengar.
Ghosts being immune to Shadow Tag was stated on the updated Type Chart that was released on the Pokemon x/y site a month or so ago. Wasn't aware of them not being affected by other trapping moves, though.
If you're running sleep on Mega Gengar, it's better to just take advantage of the free switch and go to your Dragon Dance user or something, rather than trying to stall them out with Dream Eater (think Encore Wobbuffet). Really, do we even need to test this guy to see that he is broken? I know I'm not playing Gen 6 until he is banned.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
your calculations are wrong. Assault vest + sandstorm is not +2, but rather +1 and a sand storm which is a 2.25x boost, not a 2x boost.
on the topic of megagar's counters
252 SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 176-208 (43.56 - 51.48%) -- 6.25% chance to 2HKO
4 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 134-162 (51.34 - 62.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather
combined with focus blasts's accuracy, mega gengar can only beat full strength tyranitar about 3.1% of the time. This assumes no hazards on both sides of the field, and both mons at full strength. Assault vest ttar pretty much beats mega gengar. This is also assuming mega gar runs timid, and its base stats of 150 specia lattack, 60 hp, and 80 defense are correct.
even modest mega gengar
252+ SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 192-228 (47.52 - 56.43%) -- 84.77% chance to 2HKO
beats assault vest T-tar less than 50% of the time, and still has to deal with the fact that crunch is going to kill it 100% of the time, meaning that even if your first focus blast hits and has a good damage roll the opponent may have played it safe and crunched.
Unfortunately assault vest tar cant taunt, so destiny bond ensures it cant survive its encounter with gar, but at least both will die, and you cant get trapped anymore. There is convoluted prediction non sense involve if tyranitar runs a taunt set against a sludge bomb / shadow ball / taunt / destiny bond gengar. Beating it with crunch if it taunts first turn, beating it with taunt then pursuit if it destiny bonds first turn, and beating it pursuit if it decides to switch. That's not exactly a counter but can beat it with some luck.
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