Metagame Godly Gift

I would also like to nominate Klefki: Klefki: Unranked -> B
Klefki's prankster+TWave shuts down many of the threats in GG, and with a good typing and decent bulk it can set up some Spikes to provide support, making it a very versatile mon.
Its main flaw was its poor HP, which now can be replaced by a much higher one (at least 100 usually), making it much bulkier to support better.
Its Atk can also be replaced for more damage with Play Rough.
Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Play Rough
- Magnet Rise
 
Hey!

Just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed this metagame! I wasn't a huge fan last gen but Godly Gift Gen 7 has been excellent. I've been on top of the ladder for almost 12 days, only losing the top spot briefly on the 11th and 23. In total I've played a little over 170 matches and I made a couple of different teams, so I figured I could share them with you all. They're in no particular order and I won't go them all to explain them. They're pretty straight forward. I named them after what I built around

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball

Smeargle @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Bonemerang

Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 48 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Moonblast
- Nature's Madness
- Defog

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 236 Atk / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance
- Thunder wave


Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 148 SpD / 108 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Iron Defense
- Morning Sun

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Screech
- Stone Edge
- Reversal

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
- Thunder Wave

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
- Haze

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Yveltal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- U-turn
- Heat Wave


Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock

Zygarde @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Toxic

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Scald
- Roost
- Toxic

Celesteela @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Fire Blast
- Autotomize
- Giga Drain

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Curse

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Atk / 56 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Thunder Wave
- Sacred Fire


Magearna @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam

Mimikyu @ Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw

Volcarona @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Stealth Rock

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance


Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost

Mimikyu-Busted @ Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance

Xerneas @ Fairium Z
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Geomancy
- Rest

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam
- Spikes

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 144 SpD / 112 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch


Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 148 SpD / 108 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Reversal
- Screech
- Earthquake

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 216 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 44 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Counter

Xerneas @ Leftovers
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
 
The meta seems to have settled in quite nicely since the absence of Deoxys-A and I've been seeing some pretty interesting team ideas and almost every Uber being utilized in some way as a God and a plethora of more receivers catching some spotlight. However, there is an aspect that could use some discussion amongst you all about how this certain Pokemon acts in Godly Gift, whether it is healthy or not.


Since the beginning of Godly Gift, Shuckle has always had a strong presence in the metagame, both on ladder and in room tours. It was without a doubt the best lead for Deoxys-A teams, yet since the banning of Deoxys-A its viability has not decreased at all. There's no doubt that Shuckle has countless checks and counters and is no threat on its own, but the support it provides to teams, especially Offensive and Hyper Offensive builds with Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Encore, etc. can be all the help a team needs to bring in its respective wallbreaker or sweeper to shut down an opponent. Beyond its role as a stat receiver, how does Shuckle perform as a God Pokemon? For one, it donates insane Defense and Special Defense stats to any already bulky, defensive Pokemon like Tangrowth, Mega Slowbro, Mandibuzz, Clefable, etc. and make them almost un-KOable in whatever stat it receives. It may donate incredibly low stats in its other areas as well, but a competent player could simply put already good Pokemon like Kartana, Hoopa-U, Mega Charizard X, etc. into poor stats that don't affect there performance. I know that Shuckle is rarely used as a God Pokemon and that other God Pokemon are legitimately better options all around, but is donating 230 stats and the dominance of Sticky Web/Stealth Rock a healthy aspect of metagame? So, what are your thoughts on Shuckle?
 
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Shuckle, my joke wasn't a joke ?

As you say iLlama, he has different roles:

* Spiker in HO ( with God like Deoxys or Pheromosa):

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Toxic
- Encore
With Deoxys as God, his bulk is increased with 25%.
With Pheromosa as God, his bulk is increased with 43%.

Its main function is to pose SR and SW. And he achieves that very well.
BUT he can't do anything in the rest of the match. He can't stop Defog or Rapid Spin, and he can't easily pose hazards again thanks to his weakness to SR and his serious lack of recovery. Moreover, he's useless outside of pose of Hazards and he can't prevent of adverse Hazards.
And his bulk is increased while he receive bad HP stats ( 71 is bad and 50 is very bad ).

So, Shuckle is very useful in HO's team. But he's very predictable and he's counter by any Hazard removers.

* Spiker with a " classic " God ( Arceus, Groudon, Lugia, Kyurem-W, ....):

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web / Shell Smash
- Toxic / Encore
- Rest

With Groudon as God, his bulk is increased with 65%.
With Arceus as God, his bulk is increased with 83%. It's the same order of magnitude than the increase of ATT of Alolan-Marowak with Deo-A or Swellow with Deo-A.
But Shuckle is the definition of passivity. Outside of Toxic and Encore, he has no impact. He's more passive than Blobs. He can stall, that's it.

In HO, give HP to Shuckle is good idea because he's one of the few pokemon who increase his bulk with 50 in Base HP.
In "Classic" team, it's a huge sacrifice to let HP to a such passive pokemon.
Shuckle is like Dusclops, too passive to be broken. That's why M-Sab was banned, he isn't passive.


* God :
ATT: 20
DEF: 230
SPE ATT: 20
SPE DEF : 230
SPE : 10

Shuckle creates 2 monsters. Not 3 like HO with Deo or 5 semi-monster with Arceus for example. JUST two. And the other pokemon are handicapped by these bad stats.
For example, if we made a UnaClefable with 614 of Def( it's +150% in DEF), he can tank everything on the physical( Except Alolan-Marowak with the attack of Hoopa-U) or VERY powerful Steel attacker. But this Clefable can't tank Serperior now, he can't tank very well any special move. So any Mix can't broke an entire Shuckle team.
And regular Shuckle is again passive in Shuckle team.

Let's talk about M-Sableye and the result of his ban.
M-Sableye is the perfect counter of Shuckle. But his ban doesn't help Shuckle's team. In deed, without Magic Bounce users, (Espeon isn't viable), Hazards control is VERY hard. And if a Hard-Stall team lose the Hazard control, the battle is lost. Even if the DEF monster hardstall the half of the team and the DEF SPE monster hardstall the other half.

Shuckle's team aren't broken, but if we build an entire team not thinking about them, a team without Hazards posers, you gonna lose everytime.


Shuckle is good in this three positions. But he's predictable in any roles. Shuckle as God is efficient as Deoxys as God is.

The impact of SR is far more important than the impact of Shuckle. SR doesn't deserve a suspect. So, Shuckle doesn't deserve a suspect.

Good syllogism ?
 
Shuckle, my joke wasn't a joke ?

As you say iLlama, he has different roles:

* Spiker in HO ( with God like Deoxys or Pheromosa):

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Toxic
- Encore
With Deoxys as God, his bulk is increased with 25%.
With Pheromosa as God, his bulk is increased with 43%.

Its main function is to pose SR and SW. And he achieves that very well.
BUT he can't do anything in the rest of the match. He can't stop Defog or Rapid Spin, and he can't easily pose hazards again thanks to his weakness to SR and his serious lack of recovery. Moreover, he's useless outside of pose of Hazards and he can't prevent of adverse Hazards.
And his bulk is increased while he receive bad HP stats ( 71 is bad and 50 is very bad ).

So, Shuckle is very useful in HO's team. But he's very predictable and he's counter by any Hazard removers.

* Spiker with a " classic " God ( Arceus, Groudon, Lugia, Kyurem-W, ....):

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web / Shell Smash
- Toxic / Encore
- Rest

With Groudon as God, his bulk is increased with 65%.
With Arceus as God, his bulk is increased with 83%. It's the same order of magnitude than the increase of ATT of Alolan-Marowak with Deo-A or Swellow with Deo-A.
But Shuckle is the definition of passivity. Outside of Toxic and Encore, he has no impact. He's more passive than Blobs. He can stall, that's it.

In HO, give HP to Shuckle is good idea because he's one of the few pokemon who increase his bulk with 50 in Base HP.
In "Classic" team, it's a huge sacrifice to let HP to a such passive pokemon.
Shuckle is like Dusclops, too passive to be broken. That's why M-Sab was banned, he isn't passive.


* God :
ATT: 20
DEF: 230
SPE ATT: 20
SPE DEF : 230
SPE : 10

Shuckle creates 2 monsters. Not 3 like HO with Deo or 5 semi-monster with Arceus for example. JUST two. And the other pokemon are handicapped by these bad stats.
For example, if we made a UnaClefable with 614 of Def( it's +150% in DEF), he can tank everything on the physical( Except Alolan-Marowak with the attack of Hoopa-U) or VERY powerful Steel attacker. But this Clefable can't tank Serperior now, he can't tank very well any special move. So any Mix can't broke an entire Shuckle team.
And regular Shuckle is again passive in Shuckle team.

Let's talk about M-Sableye and the result of his ban.
M-Sableye is the perfect counter of Shuckle. But his ban doesn't help Shuckle's team. In deed, without Magic Bounce users, (Espeon isn't viable), Hazards control is VERY hard. And if a Hard-Stall team lose the Hazard control, the battle is lost. Even if the DEF monster hardstall the half of the team and the DEF SPE monster hardstall the other half.

Shuckle's team aren't broken, but if we build an entire team not thinking about them, a team without Hazards posers, you gonna lose everytime.


Shuckle is good in this three positions. But he's predictable in any roles. Shuckle as God is efficient as Deoxys as God is.

The impact of SR is far more important than the impact of Shuckle. SR doesn't deserve a suspect. So, Shuckle doesn't deserve a suspect.

Good syllogism ?
Im not a big fan of stall pokes (i dont even like using shuckle) but i have to agree with him, shuckle is not broken or even close to broken, stall is coming said everything already but i want to add a bit

as much shuckle is reliable at setting up sr and sticky webs shuckle has no ways of ensuring it stays up, and this meta is in no shortage of bulky hazard removers imo (maybe just me, but i usually have no problems removing sw and sr and i play balance/rain)

And as a tank, so many things hurt it. It has lack of recovery, sr weakness, complete taunt bait, super passive (even chansey does 33%+ with seismic toss) and even in terms versatility it has only one set (ignoring the rare infestation+toxic). It gives good support yes but i dont think thats on its own is broken its just sr and sw, and encore is mostly situational

so no i say shuckle isnt broken at all as a follower. shuckle loses to so many offensive pokes and the hazards can be removed, its mostly ur fault if u dont carry a defogger or a wallbreaker for something so common

As a god tho i am not sure, on one hand shuckle itself is not threatening offensively or even defensively, on the other hand the amount of follower that can abuse shuckles defenses are certainly ehh, annoying? I mean 230 is a ridiculous stat meaning nothing can break it on that side and it can get worse due to set up making the poke unbreakable on both side, the fine thing is tho there is breakers like serperior or unaware/magic guard clefable to destroy those teams

Alakazam @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psyshock
- Seismic Toss/Taunt/Dazzling Gleam

When in the defense slot this thing is ridiculously scary, immune to status/sandstorm and after 1 calm mind this thing has 314/496/343 bulk which is superb, and if u let it get 2 calm minds this thing just becomes straight up unkillable, although things like phasing or unaware clefable which is very popular beat this set (and alakazam is not the only poke that can do this, so many pokes like florges and buzzwole can use this cheesy set)


But overall what i want to say is no shuckle is not broken just very splashable since it provides very good utility (think ou lando and sr for example) but in no way its broken, even as a god there is much more counterplay to its teams compared to sableye/giratina stall
 
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Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
ironically, i find shucks most amazing set to be a trapper set with giratina/arceus HP. its hp is absolutely titanic. shrugging off even +2 serperior leaf storms from kyurem white. meanwhile it can slowly dispatch offensive teams with the combination of toxic, infestation, rest, and shell smash/knock off/encore/stealth rock it sounds really eh on paper, but as people always expect the hazards set, meaning it catches people off guard. not to mention stall LOVES a good swellow counter. especially one that laughs EVERYTHING off swellow could ever hope to do (honestly, there are so few viable swellow checks that do that.) with decent hp, shuckle is NOT to be underestimated as a wall. as it can even stall out rest turns with its stupid high bulk.

252 SpA Magnet Tapu Koko Thunderbolt(170 special attack) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle(150 hp) in Electric Terrain: 126-148 (25 - 29.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 248 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm(170 special attack) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle: 199-235 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle: 81-96 (16.1 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Shuckle: 158-188 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 83.5% chance to 3HKO(scarf is more common then banded iirc, banded just bodies poor shuck)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb(most run ghostium tho) Mimikyu Play Rough(150 attack) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Shuckle: 203-239 (40.3 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

its bulk is NOTHING to be underestimated. its a great wall even if its best recovery is rest. because as you can see, stalling out the rest turns is EZPZ for the turtle-bug
 
but still it is setup fodder, and don't forget that serp 1) raises its SpA with every leaf storm, so that shickle will die to a +3 or +4 leaf storm, and that 2) Serperior has 8 PP on Leaf Storm, which is more than enough to overwhelm a shuckle.
A Dusclops on the other hand can simply spam Haze to remove the SpA boost AND has pressure so that Serp can use Leaf Storm only 4 times.
 
I really feel like Crobat is underrated and should be ranked in at least A-. With a really high speed, decent bulk, Infiltrator and a good typing it checks many dangerous threats such as Serperior (strongly resists Leaf Storm, neutral to coverage, Brave Bird/Sludge Bomb KOs) and Buzzwole because it bypasses Sub. It also has reliable recovery and good support moves such as Defog, Taunt, and Toxic that ignores Sub. It is also immune to poison and burn doesn't hurt it much, making it a really good answer to stall mons like Shuckle or even an excellent stall breaker if it is a special set running Nasty Plot.
Also I think Zygarde-50 with Special Attack is very interesting. While losing the good Thousand Arrows is bad, Zygarde does get a reliable dragon STAB in Core Enforcer and also a Ground STAB in Earth Power, it also has decent coverage moves like Focus Blast and Sludge Wave.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
I really feel like Crobat is underrated and should be ranked in at least A-. With a really high speed, decent bulk, Infiltrator and a good typing it checks many dangerous threats such as Serperior (strongly resists Leaf Storm, neutral to coverage, Brave Bird/Sludge Bomb KOs) and Buzzwole because it bypasses Sub. It also has reliable recovery and good support moves such as Defog, Taunt, and Toxic that ignores Sub. It is also immune to poison and burn doesn't hurt it much, making it a really good answer to stall mons like Shuckle or even an excellent stall breaker if it is a special set running Nasty Plot.
Also I think Zygarde-50 with Special Attack is very interesting. While losing the good Thousand Arrows is bad, Zygarde does get a reliable dragon STAB in Core Enforcer and also a Ground STAB in Earth Power, it also has decent coverage moves like Focus Blast and Sludge Wave.
not to mention that tarrows is still decent off zygardes 100 attack, while also "knocking" flying types onto the ground so EP can hit them harder. of course, kinda terrible idea if your running specs, which is the only real viable way to run special zyggy. but idk, if your running like...draconium or groundinium its a good choice just so mons like celesteela dont wall you.
 
ironically, i find shucks most amazing set to be a trapper set with giratina/arceus HP. its hp is absolutely titanic. shrugging off even +2 serperior leaf storms from kyurem white. meanwhile it can slowly dispatch offensive teams with the combination of toxic, infestation, rest, and shell smash/knock off/encore/stealth rock it sounds really eh on paper, but as people always expect the hazards set, meaning it catches people off guard. not to mention stall LOVES a good swellow counter. especially one that laughs EVERYTHING off swellow could ever hope to do (honestly, there are so few viable swellow checks that do that.) with decent hp, shuckle is NOT to be underestimated as a wall. as it can even stall out rest turns with its stupid high bulk.

252 SpA Magnet Tapu Koko Thunderbolt(170 special attack) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle(150 hp) in Electric Terrain: 126-148 (25 - 29.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 248 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm(170 special attack) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle: 199-235 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle: 81-96 (16.1 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Shuckle: 158-188 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 83.5% chance to 3HKO(scarf is more common then banded iirc, banded just bodies poor shuck)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb(most run ghostium tho) Mimikyu Play Rough(150 attack) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Shuckle: 203-239 (40.3 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

its bulk is NOTHING to be underestimated. its a great wall even if its best recovery is rest. because as you can see, stalling out the rest turns is EZPZ for the turtle-bug
Im not underestimating its bulk, it sure is huge but the thing is, in practice this thing is completley helpless and passive when taunted or even without being taunted it loses to so many mons(fini/ferrothorn/espeon or other steels), and since sableye got banned ive been seeing an increase of the use of taunt to combat fatter teams (never leave home without a taunt user)

I really feel like Crobat is underrated and should be ranked in at least A-. With a really high speed, decent bulk, Infiltrator and a good typing it checks many dangerous threats such as Serperior (strongly resists Leaf Storm, neutral to coverage, Brave Bird/Sludge Bomb KOs) and Buzzwole because it bypasses Sub. It also has reliable recovery and good support moves such as Defog, Taunt, and Toxic that ignores Sub. It is also immune to poison and burn doesn't hurt it much, making it a really good answer to stall mons like Shuckle or even an excellent stall breaker if it is a special set running Nasty Plot.
Also I think Zygarde-50 with Special Attack is very interesting. While losing the good Thousand Arrows is bad, Zygarde does get a reliable dragon STAB in Core Enforcer and also a Ground STAB in Earth Power, it also has decent coverage moves like Focus Blast and Sludge Wave.
I agree with you, for me i dont know how i can even build a team without crobat its just so amazing and splahable imo, it can run a plethora of different sets it never shined in normal ou due to not having any exceptional stat other than speed but here its different

its typing is an amazing unique poison/flying + its decent natural bulk makes it a good switch to scary mons like serperior/kartana/bulu/mewtwo x, and even defensive toxic fatmons such as clefable and shuckle

Its speed is also a major point it has a blazing 130 speed, its very splashable as its expansive movepool allows it to be very creative with what you want it to do, it can be a revenge killer, a physical/special wallbreaker, a stallbreaker, a defogger, a setup sweeper. I support a rise to a- as i think its more on the level of m-scizor and such


I take that all back lol, i think its just fine at b+ its great but not top meta great


About special zygarde, that seems really interesting tbh i wanted to use it. ive seen pokeaim use it once in a video and it was cool, it has an interesting special moveset that allows it to get past its usual counters such as clefable and tangrowth, plus core enforcer is a very cool 100 bp reliable stab move that removes abilities of switch ins.
 
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Here is how Shuckle ensures it stays up: Infestation as foe spins/defogs, then Encore whatever it uses next, then reset sticky webs, then reset stealth rocks, then switch to a Fast Ghost with Taunt to prevent Rapid Spin and Defog as the foe encores for the final turn of encore. You can prevent hazards from disappearing. Infestation prevents them from switching out after Encore.

Alternatively, you can switch to Dugtrio with Choice Band instead of a Ghost to trap and KO the foe before they get their last move.

Obviously, Magic Bounce breaks Taunt and hazards, but you get my point. Shuckle can set up for teammate to prevent removal.

Has anyone tried Guzzlord on a God Shuckle team receiving either defense or special defense?
Remember Ferrothorn is a great Speed recipient because the slow speed boosts Gyro Ball's Base power, while Ferrothorn resists Water and adds spikes to the entry hazards for the team.
In a shuckle team, the two monsters need to be useful. VERY useful. Two choice:
* For a offensive team, he has to be a win condition like CM Clefable (DEF) or BU Buzzwole (DEF SPE)
* For a defensive team, he has to be a defensive utility like Defog Mandibuzz (DEF),Heal Bell Clefable (DEF or DEF SPE),or Phazer Hippodown (DEF SPE)

In any case, the two monsters need a viable recovery (And rest ISN'T !)
Moreover, it's better than the monsters has a lot of HP and a good statistics of defense (special or not) in the other defense.

Guzzwole hasn't a viable recovery(He has Rest or Z-Stockpile). Its only utility is pseudo-hazing. He has a bad ability because he's too passive to make a kill.
Guzzwole is a bad monster.
 
Since this is near the end of the month, I just wanna say that this meta is probably the best OMotM we've had so far in gen 7 in terms of both concept and management. Props to iLlama who manage it well, even if there were faults at first.

Also iLlama, can we please fill the second post with sample teams? We've had some nice ones from Grains of Salt above and I'll share my team here if you need more.

Speaking of Shuckle, I don't find Shuckle that threatening. Here's one set I use in my Pdon team that shuts down Shuckle and Shuckle teams by preventing them from getting hit by Toxic.

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Terrain
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Nature's Madness
- Defog
- Moonblast

Misty Terrain is absolutely pheonomenal. Many times vs a Shuckle or a Stallmon that attempts to Toxic stall my SD Pdon, they got absolutely rekt. Oh, and Nature's Madness is a move you shouldn't mess with because no matter how bulky a mon is (especially those ungodly high Shuckle bulk), their health is cut by half. This is REALLY helpful not only vs Shuckle, but vs mons who is very hard to kill (especially shuckle teams with those 230 Defenses). Oh, and Taunt basically prevents any passive mon from doing anything, especially vs most Shuckle teams. Basically with this mon in your team, Shuckle teams can't literally do anything as most of them are passive. So you all Shuckle team complainers, use this.
 
In a shuckle team, the two monsters need to be useful. VERY useful. Two choice:
* For a offensive team, he has to be a win condition like CM Clefable (DEF) or BU Buzzwole (DEF SPE)
* For a defensive team, he has to be a defensive utility like Defog Mandibuzz (DEF),Heal Bell Clefable (DEF or DEF SPE),or Phazer Hippodown (DEF SPE)

In any case, the two monsters need a viable recovery (And rest ISN'T !)
Moreover, it's better than the monsters has a lot of HP and a good statistics of defense (special or not) in the other defense.

Guzzwole hasn't a viable recovery(He has Rest or Z-Stockpile). Its only utility is pseudo-hazing. He has a bad ability because he's too passive to make a kill.
Guzzwole is a bad monster.
I'm talking about Guzzlord not Buzzwole, in not sure if you meant Guzzlord, but you were one letter away from Buzzwole.

Just to be clear, Guzzlord gets Beast Boost, which literally multiplies the Defense of choice that Shuckle boosts after each KO... and with Stockpile to boost both of its Defenses, you can be sure it will stick around:

Guzzlord- Stockpile, Dragon Tail, Toxic, Rest.

Similar to the Munchlax set but it has more resistances and higher HP (Grass, Water, Electric, Ghost, Fire, Dark, Ghost, and an Immunity to Psychic), but more weaknesses and a lesser SpDef (plus Eviolite). Also, unlike Munchlax with Whiwind, Guzzlord doesn't have to worry about Taunt.

Keep in mind that while this Pokémon's strategy is to stall with Toxic and phase, it can still take advantage of Beast Boost when the Toxic has hurt the foe enough for Dragon Tail to KO.

Keep in mind it has more HP than Zygarde Perfect, and the third highest HP overall. I haven't tested, and was curious if other people have.

Anyways I will try and play before this month is over.

SMOGON Decision Makers! IF YOU CAN HEAR US, WE ALL WANT THIS TO BE ON THE PERMANENT LADDER... LET'S KEEP IT ACTIVE
You guys chose this game for June, it might be the next big thing! Okay?! :)
 
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Since the month is coming to a close soon and so will the Godly Gift ladder, I'd just like to thank everyone for a successful month of Godly Gift. After going through a mediocre suspect test, the endto Toxapex cancer, the slaying of two titans, and a corrupt tier leader, I guess we've come out alright. I decided to address some house-keeping items before the month's up. A basic rundown of what's being done:
  • We now have a list of Sample Teams that you guys can check out and test if you guys ever struggle with teambuilding. If you don't understand what a certain Pokémon is used for, why they have certain EVs or moves, or want to find a replacement for anything, go ahead and message the respective owner of the team, or myself, and we'll help you out.
  • The Viability Rankings have received a massive revamp with a multitude of changes based around the current metagame and concerning all ranks. I won't list all of the changes, but the most notable ones include:
    • God VR Changes:
      • Giratina - A ---> B
      • Giratina-O - A ---> B
      • Dialga - B ---> C
      • Palkia - B ---> C
      • Shuckle - C ---> B
      • Shaymin-S - C ---> Unranked
    • Receiver VR Changes:
      • Tapu Lele - S ---> A
      • Clefable - A+ ---> S
      • Marowak-Alola - A+ ---> S
      • Smeargle - A+ ---> A
      • Tapu Koko - A+ ---> A
      • Dugtrio - A ---> A+
      • Mimikyu - A ---> A+
      • Nidoking - A ---> A+
      • Crobat - B+ ---> A
      • Magearna - A- ---> A
      • Quagsire - A- ---> B+
      • Scizor-Mega - A- ---> B+
      • Gliscor - C+ ---> A-
      • Tyranitar - B+ ---> A-
      • Gastrodon - D ---> B
      • Mandibuzz - C ---> B-
      • Necrozma - Unranked ---> C+

  • Although our time is short, I would like to discuss a topic that can be looked into further at a later date, hopefully if Godly Gift receives Other Metagame of the Month again once its cooldown resets. That topic happens to be something we have largely overlooked this entire generation, and that would be Gengarite. In the previous iteration of Godly Gift, formerly known as Gifts of the Gods, when Shadow Tag became banned we simply lumped Gengarite into that ban as well because we were enforcing it as a blanket ban of the ability itself. Recently we've decided that creating a discussion for it and maybe suspecting it at some point down the road is pretty reasonable. The reason why this was considered is due to the fact that utilizing Gengar with Gengarite can be good on its own, however it puts a heavy restriction on teammates with mostly subpar stats besides Special Attack (130) and Speed (110). What is everyone's thoughts/concerns with a possible Gengarite suspect in the future?
Here's to getting OMotM again soon!
 
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I would like to see the suspect test. Shadow Tag is an extremely powerful ability and banning it from (regular) OU and any OU-based OM was necessary. Godly Gift however is a special case, as it is an OU based OM which allows the usage of a single Uber per team. As Shadow Tag is banned in OU, every Shadow Tag user (Gothitelle, Wobbuffet and Gengar-Mega are the only ones) is considered as an Uber and will be the team's god in GG. This means, using Shadow Tag comes with huge downsides, as none of the available Shadow Tag users has particularly good stats to pass - don't forget, that Gengar-Mega passes regular Gengar's stats - and you also can't run gods which are better and more versatile on their own like Primal Groudon or Arceus.
In total, I would support the re-suspect/unban of the other STag users too, as they pass even worse stats than Gengar (except for Wobb's HP) and also are worse themselves than Gengar by far. Gothitelle severely lacks bulk in a meta like this with hard-hitting stuff like Marowak, Koko or Swellow running rampant, and Wobbufett can't do anything, as it also lacks bulk to abuse Encore + Counter/Mirrror Coat and has no tools to remove stall mons it trapped - it doesn't even get Rest to recover and cure status conditions like pioson.
 
I would like to see the suspect test. Shadow Tag is an extremely powerful ability and banning it from (regular) OU and any OU-based OM was necessary. Godly Gift however is a special case, as it is an OU based OM which allows the usage of a single Uber per team. As Shadow Tag is banned in OU, every Shadow Tag user (Gothitelle, Wobbuffet and Gengar-Mega are the only ones) is considered as an Uber and will be the team's god in GG. This means, using Shadow Tag comes with huge downsides, as none of the available Shadow Tag users has particularly good stats to pass - don't forget, that Gengar-Mega passes regular Gengar's stats - and you also can't run gods which are better and more versatile on their own like Primal Groudon or Arceus.
In total, I would support the re-suspect/unban of the other STag users too, as they pass even worse stats than Gengar (except for Wobb's HP) and also are worse themselves than Gengar by far. Gothitelle severely lacks bulk in a meta like this with hard-hitting stuff like Marowak, Koko or Swellow running rampant, and Wobbufett can't do anything, as it also lacks bulk to abuse Encore + Counter/Mirrror Coat and has no tools to remove stall mons it trapped - it doesn't even get Rest to recover and cure status conditions like pioson.
Shadow Tag ban.
This is a discussion of Gengarite, not Shadow Tag itself or its other users.
 
I would like to see the suspect test. Shadow Tag is an extremely powerful ability and banning it from (regular) OU and any OU-based OM was necessary. Godly Gift however is a special case, as it is an OU based OM which allows the usage of a single Uber per team. As Shadow Tag is banned in OU, every Shadow Tag user (Gothitelle, Wobbuffet and Gengar-Mega are the only ones) is considered as an Uber and will be the team's god in GG. This means, using Shadow Tag comes with huge downsides, as none of the available Shadow Tag users has particularly good stats to pass - don't forget, that Gengar-Mega passes regular Gengar's stats - and you also can't run gods which are better and more versatile on their own like Primal Groudon or Arceus.
In total, I would support the re-suspect/unban of the other STag users too, as they pass even worse stats than Gengar (except for Wobb's HP) and also are worse themselves than Gengar by far. Gothitelle severely lacks bulk in a meta like this with hard-hitting stuff like Marowak, Koko or Swellow running rampant, and Wobbufett can't do anything, as it also lacks bulk to abuse Encore + Counter/Mirrror Coat and has no tools to remove stall mons it trapped - it doesn't even get Rest to recover and cure status conditions like pioson.
While the Shadow Tag makes the mon Uber and thus a God, does having a gengar hold gengarite make it a god? Cause if no then you can slap whatever mon with good stats that isn't Uber in the HP slot as your God (say... KyuB?) and thus spread good stats while still having Mega Gengar
 
I don't get it. That's insane.
M-Gengar became an Uber at the same time he got Shadow Tag.

M-Metagross and M-Salamence aren't better than a classic God like Arceus. But when Arceus give 720 of Base stats, M-Metagross and M-Salamence give only 600 of Base stats. That's why both are terrible God in GG.

M-Gengar has the capacity to BREAK any Defensive Core. All of them. He's going to ruin Stall all by himself.
I think he will become too unhealthy for this metagame.
 
Gengar holding Gengarite will be the god just like Salamence with Salamencite or Metagross with Metagrossite.

iLlama You brought the topic up yourself.
I brought up the topic of Gengarite while you shifted to Shadow Tag in general, brining up Gothitelle and Wobbuffet which is banned discussion.
I don't get it. That's insane.
M-Gengar became an Uber at the same time he got Shadow Tag.

M-Metagross and M-Salamence aren't better than a classic God like Arceus. But when Arceus give 720 of Base stats, M-Metagross and M-Salamence give only 600 of Base stats. That's why both are terrible God in GG.
If you're referring to the original OU banning of Mega Gengar, it became an Uber because it was a broken Pokemon stat wise, and on top of that, it had Shadow Tag (which was unbanned in OU at the time) which threw it over the top. Not sure why that decision in gen 6 OU affects this situation, but ok. Mega Gengar only donates the base form's 500 total base stats, so I'm not sure how the comparison with Salamence and Metagross is even remotely relevant. The real reason both Mega Salamence and Mega Metagross are terrible God Pokemon in Godly Gift is 1) they donate lower stats than the better gods and 2) they aren't very good on their own in the metagame.
M-Gengar has the capacity to BREAK any Defensive Core. All of them. He's going to ruin Stall all by himself.
I think he will become too unhealthy for this metagame.
I think you're over-exaggerating here quite a bit. The real concern with Gengarite is whether or not the Perish Trap set will ruin Godly Gift, which I'm not sure about, i.e. why it's a discussion topic. If Gengarite were to be unbanned, it's not like Mega Gengar can come in and just 1v1 every Stall team and instantly win. That's ridiculous. If you think that Mega Gengar will turn stall from a great archetype into one that is unplayable then that means that stall has no viable way of stopping it. This means that the multiple stall compositions that work exceedingly well in Godly Gift, i.e. Regenerator core, Lugia builds, Arceus builds, Giratina builds, etc. all lose to Mega Gengar and Gengar-boosted Pokemon, which I really don't see as being true. Beyond the stall builds, you also need to consider what Pokemon are viable and common in Godly Gift to see how it would affect them directly. Judging from common Pokemon you would find on stall both offensively and defensively and with say Ho-oh as the God, let's see how non-Perish Trap Mega Gengar fairs. Using the set Taunt/Shadow Ball/Sludge Wave or Bomb/Focus Blast:
  • Ho-oh forces Mega Gengar out.
  • Clefable with boosted SpD+ stalls it out of Sludge Wave/Bomb with Wish/Protect. Taunt stops this.
  • Specs/LO Swellow gets outsped and KOed.
  • Dugtrio traps Mega Gengar, KOing with EQ if it still has sash or with Sucker Punch.
  • Mimikyu is Ghost-type, has Disguise, and Shadow Sneak if Mega Gengar is not at full.
  • Shuckle loses to Taunt after Mental Herb is exhausted.
  • AV Tangrowth has about a 4% chance of being 2HKOed by Sludge Wave with no investment in SpD while EQ 2HKOes Mega Gengar.
  • Alomomola threatens Scald burn and Mirror Coat while also being able to Wish/Protect stall. Taunt stops Wish/Protect.
  • HP Gliscor forces Mega Gengar out.
  • Skarmory loses. Can run Shed Shell in lieu of Leftovers without losing much, but take that as you please.
  • Tyranitar (Max HP, Max Atk, Choice Band) loses to Focus Blast. If Focus Blast misses, Pursuit OHKOes. SpD Tyranitar (Max HP and about 160 SpD+ invest) lives Focus Blast and OHKOes with Crunch, threatens Pursuit trap as well.
  • Normal Quagsire above ~66% forces Mega Gengar out. SpD invested Quag forces out without being 2HKOed by Shadow Ball.
  • HP Bulky Mega Scizor forces Mega Gengar out.
  • Normal SpD Celesteela forces Mega Gengar out and can switch in freely.
  • Gastrodon forces Mega Gengar out.
  • Muk-Alola can switch in freely and trap Mega Gengar.
I'll just cut it off there because I only want the most common stall receivers that I've seen. From this, all that I see is that Mega Gengar in general is unbearable for stall and it definitely does not ruin the archetype. Which I guess narrows the point of interest down to, 'will Perish Trap Mega Gengar be able to single-handedly ruin the metagame?' I'm not sure how to answer this myself because instinctively you want to say, 'Yes, Perish Trap Mega Gengar ruins Godly Gift," but then you have to consider why it isn't banned in other metagames, such as Ubers, where Perish Trap is a legitimate set option. Does Mega Gengar instantly become broken in a meta that has Pokemon utilizing Uber-like/gifted stats but aren't Ubers themselves? Is being allowed to use Mega Gengar a fair trade-off for having to use it as the team's God Pokemon, ultimately forcing 3 of the team's Pokemon to have to already be very good Pokemon in Godly Gift on their own, otherwise they're taking a handicap? Will Perish Trap Mega Gengar have the team support and sustain to make it a broken threat?
 
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M-Metagross and M-Salamence aren't better than a classic God like Arceus. But when Arceus give 720 of Base stats, M-Metagross and M-Salamence give only 600 of Base stats. That's why both are terrible God in GG.
This brought my attention on an point I wanted to make before, the base stat of a god is not an accurate description of of a god's ability (apart on the stat distribution, since this is more direct). Note that while Arceus has a really high 720 BST it can only pass 600 since it will occupy a slot itself, Lugia has 'only' 680 BST but it can usually pass 590 (taking up Atk or SpA itself). So this actually makes Kyurem-White the 'best' passer in terms of total stats passed if it occupied the Def or Spe stat.
 
iLlama Honestly, you should remove STag from the banned discussion topics list when you bring it up for discussion yourself.
And you don't seem to read my posts...

Gengar-Mega and Shadow Tag are closely conmected, as Gengar alwwys was the most prominent user of it, Shadow Tag was what made it an Uber (it also has good stats, but so has Alakazam, and it isn't an Uber), and once it was even considered to ban Gengar from Ubers because of Shadow Tag.

I also don't think that Gengar-Mega singlehandedly ruins stall builds, but it can be dangerous and win against some mons depending on its moveset.
  • Ho-oh and Arceus (depending on its moveset) force Gengar out, Lugia can also phaze it with Dtail.
  • Skarmory, Tangrowth and Celsteela can 2HKO Gengar with Brave Bird/Earthquake/Heavy Slam, Shed Shell is also a perfectly viable item for Skarmory. If Gengar is a Perish Trapper with Sub and Protect, it wins against Celesteela and Growth, but Skarmory can whirlwind it out, as such variants like to use Disable over Taunt.
  • Dugtrio loses unless its Sash is intact, as Sucker Punch doesn't OHKO. It wins however against Perish Trappers without attacks.
  • Extremely passive mons such as Alomomola, Shuckle or Clefable lose to Perush Trap sets and to sets with attacks and taunt, but can otherwise stall Gengar out of PP if they're in the “right“ slots (HP for Shuckle and SpDef for Alomomola and Clefable)
  • Tyranitar wins against non-Focus Miss sets with Pursuit, otherwise it needs SpDef investment or an Assault Vest.
  • Dusclops can't be trapped as it is a ghost
  • Gliscor, Scizor and Gastrodon can kill Gengar with STAB Ground attacks or U-turn out (in case of Scizor).
 
iLlama Honestly, you should remove STag from the banned discussion topics list when you bring it up for discussion yourself.
And you don't seem to read my posts...

Gengar-Mega and Shadow Tag are closely conmected, as Gengar alwwys was the most prominent user of it, Shadow Tag was what made it an Uber (it also has good stats, but so has Alakazam, and it isn't an Uber), and once it was even considered to ban Gengar from Ubers because of Shadow Tag.

I also don't think that Gengar-Mega singlehandedly ruins stall builds, but it can be dangerous and win against some mons depending on its moveset.
  • Ho-oh and Arceus (depending on its moveset) force Gengar out, Lugia can also phaze it with Dtail.
  • Skarmory, Tangrowth and Celsteela can 2HKO Gengar with Brave Bird/Earthquake/Heavy Slam, Shed Shell is also a perfectly viable item for Skarmory. If Gengar is a Perish Trapper with Sub and Protect, it wins against Celesteela and Growth, but Skarmory can whirlwind it out, as such variants like to use Disable over Taunt.
  • Dugtrio loses unless its Sash is intact, as Sucker Punch doesn't OHKO. It wins however against Perish Trappers without attacks.
  • Extremely passive mons such as Alomomola, Shuckle or Clefable lose to Perush Trap sets and to sets with attacks and taunt, but can otherwise stall Gengar out of PP if they're in the “right“ slots (HP for Shuckle and SpDef for Alomomola and Clefable)
  • Tyranitar wins against non-Focus Miss sets with Pursuit, otherwise it needs SpDef investment or an Assault Vest.
  • Dusclops can't be trapped as it is a ghost
  • Gliscor, Scizor and Gastrodon can kill Gengar with STAB Ground attacks or U-turn out (in case of Scizor).
What's the point? Shadow Tag's just straight up uncompetitive, as Gen 6 has taught us. Nothing good will come out of unbanning Gengarite.
 
What's the point? Shadow Tag's just straight up uncompetitive, as Gen 6 has taught us. Nothing good will come out of unbanning Gengarite.
Well i think it should be considered, it should be available as an option, its an uber after all not a anything goes poke

I find it weird that m-gengar is not banned in any uber metagame (from normal ubers to mix and mega to whatever else) but here it was just quickbanned?

If we can handle stuff like mega mewtwo y here why is mega gengar such a big deal, even compared to other shadow tag'ers it cant even do encore/trick shenengians and boost till +6, and stall does have answers to it [see: pursuit dugtrio/tyranitar], not even mentioning it has a huge opportunity cost

I think least a suspect test should be made to let the community decide ifs its broken or not.

And if sleep perish/trapping turns out to be the problem, then cant we just make a complex ban like ubers that stops this strategy
 
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