Well seeing as my set is garnering so much attention and discussion I will just say this to explain the method behind my madness to answer Kairyu's question. The reason I don't use gooey is because it doesn't activate when behind a substitute. And the reason I don't use any physical attacks is because with the effort values I used for outspeeding rotom and maintaining its bulk, it's already strapped for power as it is. Diverting evs into attack would make it way too weak in comparison and the threats it would normally be able to set up on al of a sudden take it much easier. The reason I use special attacks is because Goodra's special movepool is by far better than its physical movepool, (it gets dragon tail and outrage for stabs the former of which is too weak and the later of which is too risky to use now with the fairies lurking around every corner) as well its higher special attack stat. Also the set does have some cases of 4mss, but thats literally what the team is for. I don't use ice beam because heatran can come in for free and simply do what it wants and it still has the ability to hit landorus, gliscor etc. hard. I use sludge bomb for azumarill and it also helps with checking rotom much easier due to the 30% poison chance. The sets meant to be a tankish pokemon that can deal out heavy damage to as many relevant pokes as it possibly can as often as it possibly can. I do see your point though Kairyu and have often tried using physical sets as well. I have just found physical sets to be incredibly underwhelming. even though Heatran can tank some hits, but even then it can't really do anything except roar me away if im behind a sub, and with the speed EVS thats practically a guarantee. And while laddering heatran was never really that common anyway, at least not in my experiences. (though my variation is crap and my ranking is low so it may just be the new players XD) Goodra sets up on a lot of specially-based pokes anyway, a lot of common ones cant do too much against it unless they carry ice beam. Like Cshadow said, goodra is not a onestop shop for every threat out there, but I am trying to make the best use of its high-points as possible and I have found that substitute alleviates a lot of goodras problems. It has access to leftovers and pseudo-immunity to most status unlike the assault vest set, it helps check physical attackers incredibly well when behind it and is very easy to set up. Needs support of course, I just use muddy water because the rest of my team takes care of that. Like a team is supposed to.
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Pokémon Goodra [REVAMP]
- Thread starter TaBuu
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The big difference is that Latias is pursuit weak. If you use Latias against any team with volt switch + Tyranitar, you're basically playing 5 on 6. Goodra doesn't exactly like taking pursuit on the switch either, but Goodra has the option to stay in against Ttar and beat it with earthquake, taking very little from pursuit in the process. Another advantage Goodra has is the ability to switch into Gengar. Latias can never do that, but Goodra can and will easily beat one of the most annoying special attackers in the tier.
I think Goodra is probably the best dragon around right now, aside from KyuB.
I'd agree with this, although I wouldn't say that Goodra is the best Dragon. I'd also say that people are underestimating the utility of both Sludge Bomb and Flamethrower, which let you hit Fairies and Steel types that Latias could never dream of getting past, especially with the HP nerf
Assault Vest Goodra is only viable on fast paced offensive teams that struggle against strong special attackers and want to dedicate only one slot to deal with most of them. And of course it's only viable with max SpA, otherwise it's too easy to switch in and gives up too much momentum to be worth it.
However, it's true that Leftovers Goodra with 3 attacks, Toxic, and max HP / max SpD+ is the best set for most teams, as Leftovers helps a ton when you are using Goodra to check the epitome of a hit-and-run Pokemon, Rotom-W, which likes to slowly chip away at its check and counters with WoW, Volt Switch, and Pain Split. Also, Toxic is Goodra's best option against Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Jellicent, and many other bulky Pokemon.
However, it's true that Leftovers Goodra with 3 attacks, Toxic, and max HP / max SpD+ is the best set for most teams, as Leftovers helps a ton when you are using Goodra to check the epitome of a hit-and-run Pokemon, Rotom-W, which likes to slowly chip away at its check and counters with WoW, Volt Switch, and Pain Split. Also, Toxic is Goodra's best option against Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Jellicent, and many other bulky Pokemon.
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Goodra is one of my favorite pokemon this gen. It is one of the most flexible pokemon in the game. Though it's defense and speed are easy to laugh at this pokemon is nothing to play with with the right spread and support.
The current set I'm running is called
Rubber dragon
252 hp
200 sp def
58 speed
Counter
Body slam/earthquake
Ice beam
Infestation/sludge wave/bomb
Mild nature
Any suggestions will be taken into consideration.
It doubles as a lead or special wall
The current set I'm running is called
Rubber dragon
252 hp
200 sp def
58 speed
Counter
Body slam/earthquake
Ice beam
Infestation/sludge wave/bomb
Mild nature
Any suggestions will be taken into consideration.
It doubles as a lead or special wall
I've been experimenting with specially defensive Kyurem-B (just the standard smogon set) and it works out very well imo. I'd even say it's better than Goodra because of Roost. Imo offensive Goodra fits its role a lot better. Dragon Pulse/Focus Blast/Fire Blast/Rest with Chesto Berry and Timid 252/252 spread can easily handle Rotom-W over the duration of the battle, healing off burn with Rest when it gets low on health. Focus Blast is the main reason to use Goodra over Latias, as you can hit Tyranitar hard. Same goes with Fire Blast, but for Ferrothorn and Aegislash.
Flamethrower/Fire Blast is fine but there is no need for Sludge Bomb really.
Thunderbolt hits both Azumarill and Togekiss for SE already.
Klefki and Mawile are immune to Sludge Bomb and get SE'd by Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Sylveon and Florges both has ridiculous SpD.
And if you want to go into the new Ghosts, Gourgeist and Trevenant are both also weak to Flamethrower/Fire Blast.
It's really only for Clefable and Gardevoir.
Has this one been mentioned?:
Goodra @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail
- Draco Meteor
At first, I had Power Whip over Earthquake and Aqua Tail over Iron Tail, but then I realized they do not have good coverage. Of course, Iron Tail is there to take out Fairy-types that might try to switch into a predicted Outrage/Draco Meteor.
Goodra @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail
- Draco Meteor
At first, I had Power Whip over Earthquake and Aqua Tail over Iron Tail, but then I realized they do not have good coverage. Of course, Iron Tail is there to take out Fairy-types that might try to switch into a predicted Outrage/Draco Meteor.
Scarf Goodra lacks both the power and speed to make use of Scarf better than the other Dragons, like Garchomp and Salamence. Post-Bank, Goodra suffers even more competition from Lati@s who can Trick the Scarf away to cripple walls (aka Fairies). Not to mention this set can be replicated exactly by Dragonite, who has similiar speed but is physically stronger and has better bulk with Multiscale, but who uses Scarf Dragonite? Even if Goodra gained more speed, lack of boosting options and only decent power hold it back from revenge killing roles. Best stick to Goodras who optimize bulk and / or power.
Why slap a scarf on Goodra instead of say Salamence who has better mixed offensives and Moxie to boost attack? There's also Scarfchomp and a whole lot of better, faster, stronger Pokemon.
Um...dude, part of the whole point of Smogon is to let people know what they're getting into before they try out a Pokemon, hence all the analyses and stuff. Feel free to try out some new sets, but all we do is inform you if you're using a set that is inferior / outclassed by other Pokemon and / or suggest alternative or more suitable sets. Don't let that stop you from innovating or using your favorite sets, good try though.
The whole point of this thread is to discuss about viable sets of Goodra in the OU metagame. Many inexperienced players have the tendency to post bad and unviable sets that they either liked using during gameplay or in battles against their friends, or even sets that they haven't tested at all (like you did), hence why i deleted your posts. So, if you don't want your posts deleted next time, make sure that you actually try out the sets that you suggest.
Salty Sailor
Goodra@Leftovers
Sap Sipper
Sassy 252 HP / 4 Df / 252 SpD
~ Substitute/Rest
~ Curse
~ Body Slam
~ Dragon Tail
I really wanted to emphasize this set again as I have yet to see a set with better longevity. Honestly, taking that SpD to the extreme and then utilizing Curse makes you practically impregnable and your choice of Rest or Substitute to handle status, although Rest is probably superior. Don't fear getting set up on because Dragon Tail will send everyone packing minus Fairies. But with enough Curses, immunity to status, powered up Body Slams and some parahax on the side you can handle many boosting Fairies as well, not always though. I swear to God though, get up Reflect and Stealth Rock and you'll be so impressed what you can withstand. Outside of phasing the best way to take care of this beast is early Outrages. It's a bulkier Curselax with more resistances and phasing as well.
Goodra@Leftovers
Sap Sipper
Sassy 252 HP / 4 Df / 252 SpD
~ Substitute/Rest
~ Curse
~ Body Slam
~ Dragon Tail
I really wanted to emphasize this set again as I have yet to see a set with better longevity. Honestly, taking that SpD to the extreme and then utilizing Curse makes you practically impregnable and your choice of Rest or Substitute to handle status, although Rest is probably superior. Don't fear getting set up on because Dragon Tail will send everyone packing minus Fairies. But with enough Curses, immunity to status, powered up Body Slams and some parahax on the side you can handle many boosting Fairies as well, not always though. I swear to God though, get up Reflect and Stealth Rock and you'll be so impressed what you can withstand. Outside of phasing the best way to take care of this beast is early Outrages. It's a bulkier Curselax with more resistances and phasing as well.
There is something called surprise factor. Nobody will expect a Goodra to outspeed you. And yes, I've used Scarf Goodra myself and it works out fine. It's not because a pokemon is outclassed in it's role that it isn't viable: this reminds me of when people mocked me for using specially based Shell Smash Carracosta in NU, when Gorebyss did it much better. Needless to say, my Carracosta killed more Tangela's and Seismitoads than any other Carracosta ever :] I don't blame you for being close-minded though, not many people on the ladder are able to look farther than the end of their nose.
There is no need to be condescending towards what you assume to be generic ladder players (what would you classify yourself as otherwise?), surprise sets do work from time to time, like physical HP Ice MegaLucario pre-PokeBank. It's just that outside of those specific situations, or if the surprise is blown, do these surprise sets not fare as well / effectively as their regular bread-and-butter sets. Scarf Goodra does outspeed threats, but sacrifices longevity by giving up both bulk investment and Leftovers, and its notably lower power compared to other Choiced Dragons makes Goodra easier to take advantage of overall. Yes, you are right that being outclassed by other users does not make a set totally unviable for a Pokemon, but if you do not play to its strengths, why use it over the options that do outclass it?
As for your SmashCosta, I do hope you do run at least one physical move on it (like Stone Edge), otherwise it is outperformed by Gorebyss on a general scale. Likewise with Goodra: its biggest advantage over other Dragons is its bulk, but without much investment and even passive recovery of any sort, that advantage is diminished greatly. All in exchange for a bump in Speed, but does Scarf Goodra even outspeed any relevant +1 threats? Most likely not, meaning Goodra still has to tank a hit and that you'd be better off EVing in bulk to take it better or just use a faster, stronger Scarfed Dragon in its place.
Edit: To reiterate, the main reason why some Dragons like Goodra and Dragonite make lackluster Choice users is because their best attacks (Outrage or Draco Meteor) have horrible side effects. Garchomp can throw out an STAB EQ without nearly as much repercussion, while Salamence has Moxie to power up Dragon Claw. Even Noivern makes for a better Choiced Dragon due to U-Turn and Switcheroo. Also, the basis of running Scarf Goodra on the grounds of 'surprise factor' are rendered moot when you consider each Dragon has a versatile enough movepool to surprise regular switch-ins without deviating too much from their roles / trying to perform like other Dragons.
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Because people are prepared for the options that outclass it. For example, Specs Latios completely outclasses Goodra (just a proposition). Latios has a great counter in Ferrothorn. In a standardized metagame like OU, people will switch in their Ferrothorn against your Latios. You can predict this, but your best option is to lose your Choice Specs just to cripple Ferrothorn. Goodra on the other hand could roast said Ferrothorn with Fire Blast. My point is that even though a pokemon is 100% outclassed (which I'll go into next) it can still be viable and even preferred over said pokemon that it's outclassed by, because by running unconventional sets you can catch your opponent off guard. You can do this with the outclassing pokemon too, e.g. HP Fire on Latios but it's generally much harder to pull this off effectively.
As a matter of fact, I do not run any physical moves on Carracosta because physical walls are much more commonplace, e.g. Tangela, Misdreavus, Alomomola etc. I run the same set Gorebyss would use. Why do I use Carracosta then? Surprise factor. Tangela is an almost systematic switch in against Carracosta, and I decided it would be a good idea to abuse that. Two, nobody will send in their special wall against Carracosta before I actually reveal it isn't physically based. As for Goodra, you can get surprise kills with Focus Blast against Greninjas that expect you to not be able to OHKO them and thus go for Ice Beam. Same goes with other pokes like Garchomp, +1 Dragonite after SR, Lucario, etc. Like I said, nobody expects Scarf Goodra which makes it so deadly. It's not always about pure base stats or viability in the rational/theoretical sense. I hope I kinda get across what I'm trying to say here. Essentially pokemon is a mental thing, and you can approach it in different ways. I'm just explaining the non-standard, unconventional way here.
I kinda disagree actually. To a certain extent you are correct, but e.g. Latias is never getting past Tyranitar, not even with Specs Surf. Scarf Goodra gets a guaranteed 2HKO with Focus Blast against the bulkiest Tyranitar. Tyranitar is normally an excellent switch to either of them, but only Goodra is capable of using a viable set that beats it reliably (not factoring in accuracy then, but meh). Sure, you can run Fire Blast on Garchomp to catch those Skarmory's, but Balloon Heatran is still an issue. It's not that black and white, but if you have the option to pick an outclassed poke but that takes out conventional counters to the pokemon that outclasses it reliably, it might be worth using that instead. Or you're using the superior pokemon, but you get countered more often than you would like. See my point?
flargananddingle
L+R+START
I wouldnt say its only viable on fast paced teams..it makes a great pivot into spiking steel types (particularly skarm or ferro) because its like a garchomp/azumarril magnet. I use it on a pretty balanced team with mega b lastoise and skarmory and it always does a nice job of softening something up before being switched out. Incidently, those three pokemon make a really nice core from my experiences. Blastoise covers goodras weaknesses beautifully, and skarm can set spikes at its own pace since it usually forces goodras checks out.
i really like this set only thing i wanna know is 252 SpD necessary especially with a sassy nature why not add a lil more to DEF also i like rest but i would choose substitute instead with fairies being immune to dragon tail
side note this set is walled by carbink
i guess it'd have to be a choice between earthquake and body slam and now that i think about it if you are planning on sitting in on a klefki i guess rest would be the better option
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You could move some SpD EVs into Df if you wish but the idea is since you'll be boosting your physical defense you want an amazing SpD stat to protect you while you boost. Alternatively yes, 252 Df EVs means your Cursing increases your defense by that much more each time. Tinker as you will, there's really no point not having max HP though.
The problem with EQ is you'll be walled by Togekiss and also that Normal/Dragon has no double immunity (no Ghost/Fairy type yet). The objective isn't to outright kill stuff so much as cause havoc with parashuffling and leaving the enemy's team in shambles for a good cleanup sweep with, say, Talonflame or something.
I am loving AV goodra at the moment. Despite not being a sweeper it 2HKO's a lot of things with its coverage and some prediction of switch ins, and it is just tanky as can be from the special side. I am thinking of using sap sipper, but I am using gooey for now because to me it has slightly more utility in that when it does die, whatever killed it can either be revenge killed or setup bait (depending on what I predict).
Then again, sap sipper is useful for spore but... nothing else I can think of. Is there a consensus on the best ability yet or is it variable depending on team needs?
Then again, sap sipper is useful for spore but... nothing else I can think of. Is there a consensus on the best ability yet or is it variable depending on team needs?
Generally Sap Sipper is the better choice due to having an immunity to Grass to switch in on Sleep Powder, Spore, Giga Drain, Leech Seed, etc that run around OU. Gooey can be useful but that requires you to get hit physically, compromising Goodra in the process.
I see people having stupid arguments about which ability is THE ability to use on Goodra - generally this argument is between sap sipper and gooey. I believe Goodra has 3 very useable abilities and therefore has an element of unpredictability.
I've been using a Politoed with damp rock on a stallish team (10 turns of rain and weather is dead? lol), and my team had trouble dealing with Skarm/Bliss cores. So I started running a mixed brave Goodra with hydration. Chansey/Blissey can't status it or touch it and with thunder and fire blast it eats skarm.
Goodra@ assault vest/leftovers
Brave 252 hp / 252 att / 4 def ( might split some Att evs into def or SpAtt, but needs the Att evs to dent chansey)
Aqua tail
Outrage/
Thunder
Fire Blast
Other options to consider are I guess dragon tail, rest and maybe earthquake.
Dunno why people compare this guy to latias, i bet he gets superpower via tutor in Z.
Its more like a slower bulky hydreigon/wallbreaker. I def think one of the main options to consider when using this guy is a mixed attacker set.
Goodra can do so much - you can slap specs on it, you can slap scarf on it, you can slap a band on it, and it has 3 very different useable abilities.
Just depends on what your team needs. If you have a bulky grass type, then who needs sap sipper? I've seen gooey and hydration sets that run acid armor/curse and rest.
Also I think Serebii has got Goodras base stats wrong - Att is only 90 and SpAtt is 100. My modest max SpAtt Goodra only has 328 SpAtt at lv100. I don't know why anyone hasn't picked this up.
I've been using a Politoed with damp rock on a stallish team (10 turns of rain and weather is dead? lol), and my team had trouble dealing with Skarm/Bliss cores. So I started running a mixed brave Goodra with hydration. Chansey/Blissey can't status it or touch it and with thunder and fire blast it eats skarm.
Goodra@ assault vest/leftovers
Brave 252 hp / 252 att / 4 def ( might split some Att evs into def or SpAtt, but needs the Att evs to dent chansey)
Aqua tail
Outrage/
Thunder
Fire Blast
Other options to consider are I guess dragon tail, rest and maybe earthquake.
Dunno why people compare this guy to latias, i bet he gets superpower via tutor in Z.
Its more like a slower bulky hydreigon/wallbreaker. I def think one of the main options to consider when using this guy is a mixed attacker set.
Goodra can do so much - you can slap specs on it, you can slap scarf on it, you can slap a band on it, and it has 3 very different useable abilities.
Just depends on what your team needs. If you have a bulky grass type, then who needs sap sipper? I've seen gooey and hydration sets that run acid armor/curse and rest.
Also I think Serebii has got Goodras base stats wrong - Att is only 90 and SpAtt is 100. My modest max SpAtt Goodra only has 328 SpAtt at lv100. I don't know why anyone hasn't picked this up.
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I've been having some fun with this set:
Goodra@assault vest
Bold
252sp.atk/252defence/4hp
Draco meteor
Fire blast
Icebeam
Sludge bomb/thunderbolt
I've been having some pretty decent success with this set, a bold nature with max defence investment + assault vest gives it decent bulk on both sides of the spectrum whereas max sp.atk ev's give it the power to be able to OHKO most frail sweepers, which is what I've most often been using as; a kind of "sweeper counter". Anyways, let me know what you think! :)
Goodra@assault vest
Bold
252sp.atk/252defence/4hp
Draco meteor
Fire blast
Icebeam
Sludge bomb/thunderbolt
I've been having some pretty decent success with this set, a bold nature with max defence investment + assault vest gives it decent bulk on both sides of the spectrum whereas max sp.atk ev's give it the power to be able to OHKO most frail sweepers, which is what I've most often been using as; a kind of "sweeper counter". Anyways, let me know what you think! :)
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