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OU Gothitelle
- Thread starter trc
- Start date
True, 219 is the best option then.
Uninvested Landorus-T.
and if we're gonna reach that high, we might has well go the whole ten miles and attempt to outrun Adamant Scizor and Jolly Azumarill.
I have quite successfully played this set on Pokemon Online
Specially defensive toxic trapper
#
Name: sd toxic trapper
Move 1: Toxic
Move 2: Taunt
Move 3: Recycle
Move 4: Rest
Ability: Arena Trap
Item: Lum Berry
Evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Nature: Calm
This set aims to poison the enemy pokemon and then just use recycle and rest till the opponent dies. It works best against chansey and blissey, as you can make them useless by taunt and they cant escape the toxic.
It also works great against pokemon that use psycho boost(deoxys-s) or draco meteor (latias/latiaos), if you can predict the switch in, as you can survive the first hit rather good (usually not more than 60% damage), so that they are too weak to finish you, while you rest and then just toxic + recycle rest them till death.
Ive have also managed to kill some heatrans after i used leech seed with venusaur and then switched in.
Overall it works best against walls that cant hit back and are to slow to taunt first, its second best victims are mediocre special attackers.
It works good in combination with pokemons that want chansey or blissey down, as this set ruthlessly murders them. As mentioned leech seed use can also be great, as you can trap some pokemon that you cant trap otherwise with it because of toxic resistance and it gives better recoil. Also, as you take the Heal Bell user down, other status move users benefit of it.
Specially defensive toxic trapper
#
Name: sd toxic trapper
Move 1: Toxic
Move 2: Taunt
Move 3: Recycle
Move 4: Rest
Ability: Arena Trap
Item: Lum Berry
Evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Nature: Calm
This set aims to poison the enemy pokemon and then just use recycle and rest till the opponent dies. It works best against chansey and blissey, as you can make them useless by taunt and they cant escape the toxic.
It also works great against pokemon that use psycho boost(deoxys-s) or draco meteor (latias/latiaos), if you can predict the switch in, as you can survive the first hit rather good (usually not more than 60% damage), so that they are too weak to finish you, while you rest and then just toxic + recycle rest them till death.
Ive have also managed to kill some heatrans after i used leech seed with venusaur and then switched in.
Overall it works best against walls that cant hit back and are to slow to taunt first, its second best victims are mediocre special attackers.
It works good in combination with pokemons that want chansey or blissey down, as this set ruthlessly murders them. As mentioned leech seed use can also be great, as you can trap some pokemon that you cant trap otherwise with it because of toxic resistance and it gives better recoil. Also, as you take the Heal Bell user down, other status move users benefit of it.
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You realize Naughty is +Atk, -Sp. Def, right? If you want to reverse it, go with Calm.
Okay, so I realize all of QC hates the Scarf-Rest-Trick set (and Gothitelle in general...), and that this is already in GP stage, but I feel like the set needs more of a mention. I know the ladder is dumb, but the 1825 stats aren't. In the 1825 stats, 75% of Gothitelle run Choice Scarf, 70% run Rest, and 26% run Taunt compared to only 22% running Choice Specs. These are the 1825 stats, so clearly there is some trend that isn't even mentioned in the analysis. It could be just a mention in OO saying how bad it is, like Leech Seed Whimsicott, but it isn't that terrible. That one set in particular only beats stall and some forms of bulky offense, but it is rather effective at what it does. I think it needs to be more incorporated into the analysis, despite it not being its best set.
Tl;dr: The Scarf-Rest set isn't Gothitelle's best, but it is its most common amongst the most skilled players of the game. It currently isn't mentioned anywhere, and really should be, even if it is two sentences saying why it isn't great.
1825 Stats:
1695 Stats:
Code:
Moves
Trick 96.612%
Psychic 79.421%
Rest 70.381%
Hidden Power Fire 44.154%
Taunt 26.094%
Thunderbolt 25.700%
Psyshock 20.580%
Hidden Power Ice 14.532%
Energy Ball 9.021%
Other 13.506%
Code:
Items
Choice Scarf 75.478%
Choice Specs 22.730%1695 Stats:
Code:
Trick 87.866%
Psychic 67.855%
Rest 50.113%
Thunderbolt 40.961%
Hidden Power Fire 39.686%
Psyshock 31.486%
Taunt 24.082%
Energy Ball 19.106%
Hidden Power Ice 8.149%
Calm Mind 5.759%
Hidden Power Ground 4.447%
Shadow Ball 4.338%
Other 16.152%
Code:
Items
Choice Scarf 58.112%
Choice Specs 35.278%Tl;dr: The Scarf-Rest set isn't Gothitelle's best, but it is its most common amongst the most skilled players of the game. It currently isn't mentioned anywhere, and really should be, even if it is two sentences saying why it isn't great.
user CrashinBoomBang had said he would write a long post about how bad that aet really was if it didnt die. if you he still cares to ill let him address it.
ooooooooooo thanks for tagging me, it's late here now but I'll make sure to write up something tomorrow.
because goddamn.
FUK ok this will have to wait another day i promise ill post it tmrw!
because goddamn.
FUK ok this will have to wait another day i promise ill post it tmrw!
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Okay, I'm double posting for this so this thread will get pushed to the top because I want to clarify this once and for all.
Trickscarf Taunt Rest Gothitelle is worthless. Complete garbage. A pathetic attempt at making a "stallbreaker" that, in all honesty, shouldn't even exist, regardless of whether this is in a ladder or tournament environment. It's literally the biggest waste of a teamslot in 95% of all games while you get the occassional "good matchup" 5% of the time. That is not smart teambuilding or Pokemon'ing or playing or whatever. It is a shitty ladder gimmick innovated by people such as this guy who define the ladder and make me wonder whether the ladder is worth anything at all or just inherently doomed to be worthless. If those kind of players are "top of the ladder" (and apparently this guy was) and are considered "the most skilled players of the game" then I'm glad to outline why this set is as awful as it is.
First of all, when looking at this set in a ladder environment, it might make sense. The higher-up ladder is dominated by Stall and for good reason: A bad player using Stall will pretty much always beat a bad player using Offense; the Stall player can just keep making systematic A-B switches while the Offense player will be unable to make the "plays", or double switches and right long term decisions needed to break that cycle of switches. By that logic you also don't need your whole team of 6 to handle all offensive threats since you're never really "threatened" by most players, which in turn means that you can devote that spot to a stallbreaker of your own. This means that, on the ladder side of things which is filled with mediocre and awful players, Stall will always dominate, so a Stall team that is able to beat other Stall teams will obviously do well. (Note that this only applies to "bad" players or "ladder" players; note that I might use the two synonymous at times when they obviously aren't always to be used in such a fashion but that's just how I see it when stuff like this awful Gothitelle set runs rampant. Furthermore, on a higher level of play, most of the stuff I outlined above obviously doesn't apply anymore as many more opportunities to outplay your opponent get used by "high level players". That is the reason why Stall as a whole is a lot more common on ladder than in tournaments: it's a lot easier and affordable to "play well" or "make plays" with Offense against Stall or even Offense against Offense than Stall against Offense as the stall players risks losing a crucial part of their team by going for double switches or by trying to deny double switches against an offensive player and thus can't risk it most of the time.)
However, that is inherently flawed thinking. By adding this set we are basically telling players "here, instead of actually thinking or improving your game just add this Pokemon which leaves you down 5-6 against offense but kind of wrecks some stall teams, especially on ladder". That is not the kind of thinking we should advocate or even promote. That is not to say that every player should run offense or "try to make plays" or whatever; Stall is obviously still a very valid option but when you use a Pokemon that literally only beats some sort of stall and is complete deadweight against other forms of stall while pretty much always being deadweight against offense, balance and other such things (I'll get to this later) then something is wrong; we should not offer shitty "ladder techs" as part of our analyses which will basically just make every single team ever worse but instead aim to actually make people better players and, in turn, teambuilders, especially when way better alternatives exist that won't make you a sitting duck against everything other than the one form of Stall you try to beat with that Gothitelle set such as Mega Mawile, Mega Medicham, Landorus-I, some Thundurus-I sets, Gengar, Taunt Heatran and, amusingly enough, regular Gothitelle sets. Obviously not all of these can singlehandedly beat every stall team, but they sure as hell can do it more effectively than TrickScarf Taunt Gothitelle. Except for the regular Gothitelle maybe, but at least that has other uses. Even stall can add win conditions against other stall teams that also have other uses such as Calm Mind Clefable or Stallbreaker Mew. There's always a different way than this pitiful Gothitelle set and, as I said before, we shouldn't promote the use of niche sets without an actual niche to our readers.
As for why this set sucks as much as it does, look at common battle situations. I'll always take a look at a more offensive inclined team and a more defensive inclined team using the Gothitelle in question facing off against Stall/Balance/Offense. While this obviously won't apply to all of the teams in any given category, it should give a pretty adequate estimate.
Goth Offense vs Stall: You don't even need Gothitelle in this matchup and it's pretty much a dead slot. Other Pokemon would be more useful to have in this scenario but I guess it's a "guaranteed" way to cripple a Pokemon thats troublesome to one of your sweepers. No idea why you would have this over a Gothitelle that can harm Pokemon instead of just PP Stalling most of them in vain though.
Goth Defense vs Stall: Depends a lot on the teams, but generally you'll cripple one of their walls which gives you an advantage, although that's kinda offset by the fact that the "modern" kind of Stall teams usually only have one of their Pokemon crippled by Gothitelle as Pokemon such as Charizard X are way more common and abuse the heck out of the free turns given my pathetically weak Psyshocks. That is, if you can even manage to successfully trap one of their Pokemon. Generally, though, Gothitelle should do well if you play smart.
Goth Offense vs Balance: Depending on the trappable Pokemon you might be in a pretty good position. However, as this is probably one of the best matchups for regular/Specs/whatever Gothitelle your Taunt Gothitelle probably feels rather useless and "dead weight". I would call this a good matchup for Gothitelle but that makes me question why the fuck you wouldn't use a normal set so I won't.
Goth Defense vs Balance: You can probably eliminate a key threat, but again, if you had a different win condition over this garbage you could probably do just as well. Depending on the offense the balanced team mounts crippling one of their mons with a Scarf can be helpful. Would be more helpful to actually kill something, though, and if there's a Mega Mawile you're kinda boned.
Goth Offense vs Offense: This is where Gothitelle just shows off its supreme shittiness. You will be down 5-6 pretty much all game because you will NOT be able to sufficiently trap something with just Psyshock and Trick. And even if you could, it's not like Gothitelle can really come in against anything (Keldeo just 2HKOs you while you don't OHKO back, etc) so if you really want to trap something you'd have to go 2 for 1 unless your opponent is a goober. Not to mention that the last thing an offensive teams wants to do is having a +2 full health Life Orb Bisharp on their ass. Or a full health +1 +1 Zard X. Or one of many other threats. Probably worse than useless actually.
Goth Defense vs Offense: Again, you "potentially" "cripple" one of their mons but then what? You don't have a 6th Pokemon with actual defensive utility you might need and will just get beaten down. Case in point being the replay posted at the start; if he had a Dragonite or something with actual utility it would have been much harder for me to just steamroll him, but as it stands he just got demolished.
That's the main problem with this Gothitelle set: In the matchups where it actually does well a regular Gothitelle would probably serve you just as well, or a different Pokemon altogether. In the matchups where it just gets destroyed, anything would be better, whether thats a different Gothitelle set, a Pokemon that is better suited to do anything at all but give out free turns like candy or even not having a 6th Pokemon at all. Outclassed doesn't even begin to describe this Gothitelle set: in some cases it even leaves you at a severe disadvantage. And with the decline of Mega Venusaur on stall, even that "niche" of destroying one of the old archetypes of stall is gone. Modern stall focuses more on Pokemon such as Scizor and Charizard whom you don't stand a chance against. It is a horrible ladder gimmick that was invented to reduce the thinking needed (on par with stuff such as Haze Quagsire; I hope I don't have to write up a post as to why that set is also flawed in many ways) but, in an actual "high level playing circuit", just falls flat on his face and leaves you at a severe disadvantage. There is almost nothing to gain from using this set and a lot to lose. There are so many Pokemon that do a role similar to it and, in many cases, even better. It's completely and absolutely terrible and I hope I outlined why that is the case. This is not getting an analysis, period. I don't even want a mention of it just because I honestly believe this is nothing any team in high level play (which is what we should prepare our readers for, as "ladder" or "lower level play" is a lot easier to adapt to once you actually know what you're doing) should ever utilize and I hope I made clear why.
Disclaimer: Obviously, not all ladder players are terrible and it would be dumb to think that. However, unless something drastic happens, I will always view the general population of the ladder as terrible because of sets like this existing. This post is in no way meant as an insult to any players in particular, but if it got interpreted that way then I'm sorry; maybe you shouldn't use TrickScarf Taunt Rest Gothitelle. And I'm sorry that this kinda ended up also touching upon the ladder and its players rather than just Gothitelle but I really felt like I had to explain why this even became common when it shouldn't have.
Trickscarf Taunt Rest Gothitelle is worthless. Complete garbage. A pathetic attempt at making a "stallbreaker" that, in all honesty, shouldn't even exist, regardless of whether this is in a ladder or tournament environment. It's literally the biggest waste of a teamslot in 95% of all games while you get the occassional "good matchup" 5% of the time. That is not smart teambuilding or Pokemon'ing or playing or whatever. It is a shitty ladder gimmick innovated by people such as this guy who define the ladder and make me wonder whether the ladder is worth anything at all or just inherently doomed to be worthless. If those kind of players are "top of the ladder" (and apparently this guy was) and are considered "the most skilled players of the game" then I'm glad to outline why this set is as awful as it is.
First of all, when looking at this set in a ladder environment, it might make sense. The higher-up ladder is dominated by Stall and for good reason: A bad player using Stall will pretty much always beat a bad player using Offense; the Stall player can just keep making systematic A-B switches while the Offense player will be unable to make the "plays", or double switches and right long term decisions needed to break that cycle of switches. By that logic you also don't need your whole team of 6 to handle all offensive threats since you're never really "threatened" by most players, which in turn means that you can devote that spot to a stallbreaker of your own. This means that, on the ladder side of things which is filled with mediocre and awful players, Stall will always dominate, so a Stall team that is able to beat other Stall teams will obviously do well. (Note that this only applies to "bad" players or "ladder" players; note that I might use the two synonymous at times when they obviously aren't always to be used in such a fashion but that's just how I see it when stuff like this awful Gothitelle set runs rampant. Furthermore, on a higher level of play, most of the stuff I outlined above obviously doesn't apply anymore as many more opportunities to outplay your opponent get used by "high level players". That is the reason why Stall as a whole is a lot more common on ladder than in tournaments: it's a lot easier and affordable to "play well" or "make plays" with Offense against Stall or even Offense against Offense than Stall against Offense as the stall players risks losing a crucial part of their team by going for double switches or by trying to deny double switches against an offensive player and thus can't risk it most of the time.)
However, that is inherently flawed thinking. By adding this set we are basically telling players "here, instead of actually thinking or improving your game just add this Pokemon which leaves you down 5-6 against offense but kind of wrecks some stall teams, especially on ladder". That is not the kind of thinking we should advocate or even promote. That is not to say that every player should run offense or "try to make plays" or whatever; Stall is obviously still a very valid option but when you use a Pokemon that literally only beats some sort of stall and is complete deadweight against other forms of stall while pretty much always being deadweight against offense, balance and other such things (I'll get to this later) then something is wrong; we should not offer shitty "ladder techs" as part of our analyses which will basically just make every single team ever worse but instead aim to actually make people better players and, in turn, teambuilders, especially when way better alternatives exist that won't make you a sitting duck against everything other than the one form of Stall you try to beat with that Gothitelle set such as Mega Mawile, Mega Medicham, Landorus-I, some Thundurus-I sets, Gengar, Taunt Heatran and, amusingly enough, regular Gothitelle sets. Obviously not all of these can singlehandedly beat every stall team, but they sure as hell can do it more effectively than TrickScarf Taunt Gothitelle. Except for the regular Gothitelle maybe, but at least that has other uses. Even stall can add win conditions against other stall teams that also have other uses such as Calm Mind Clefable or Stallbreaker Mew. There's always a different way than this pitiful Gothitelle set and, as I said before, we shouldn't promote the use of niche sets without an actual niche to our readers.
As for why this set sucks as much as it does, look at common battle situations. I'll always take a look at a more offensive inclined team and a more defensive inclined team using the Gothitelle in question facing off against Stall/Balance/Offense. While this obviously won't apply to all of the teams in any given category, it should give a pretty adequate estimate.
Goth Offense vs Stall: You don't even need Gothitelle in this matchup and it's pretty much a dead slot. Other Pokemon would be more useful to have in this scenario but I guess it's a "guaranteed" way to cripple a Pokemon thats troublesome to one of your sweepers. No idea why you would have this over a Gothitelle that can harm Pokemon instead of just PP Stalling most of them in vain though.
Goth Defense vs Stall: Depends a lot on the teams, but generally you'll cripple one of their walls which gives you an advantage, although that's kinda offset by the fact that the "modern" kind of Stall teams usually only have one of their Pokemon crippled by Gothitelle as Pokemon such as Charizard X are way more common and abuse the heck out of the free turns given my pathetically weak Psyshocks. That is, if you can even manage to successfully trap one of their Pokemon. Generally, though, Gothitelle should do well if you play smart.
Goth Offense vs Balance: Depending on the trappable Pokemon you might be in a pretty good position. However, as this is probably one of the best matchups for regular/Specs/whatever Gothitelle your Taunt Gothitelle probably feels rather useless and "dead weight". I would call this a good matchup for Gothitelle but that makes me question why the fuck you wouldn't use a normal set so I won't.
Goth Defense vs Balance: You can probably eliminate a key threat, but again, if you had a different win condition over this garbage you could probably do just as well. Depending on the offense the balanced team mounts crippling one of their mons with a Scarf can be helpful. Would be more helpful to actually kill something, though, and if there's a Mega Mawile you're kinda boned.
Goth Offense vs Offense: This is where Gothitelle just shows off its supreme shittiness. You will be down 5-6 pretty much all game because you will NOT be able to sufficiently trap something with just Psyshock and Trick. And even if you could, it's not like Gothitelle can really come in against anything (Keldeo just 2HKOs you while you don't OHKO back, etc) so if you really want to trap something you'd have to go 2 for 1 unless your opponent is a goober. Not to mention that the last thing an offensive teams wants to do is having a +2 full health Life Orb Bisharp on their ass. Or a full health +1 +1 Zard X. Or one of many other threats. Probably worse than useless actually.
Goth Defense vs Offense: Again, you "potentially" "cripple" one of their mons but then what? You don't have a 6th Pokemon with actual defensive utility you might need and will just get beaten down. Case in point being the replay posted at the start; if he had a Dragonite or something with actual utility it would have been much harder for me to just steamroll him, but as it stands he just got demolished.
That's the main problem with this Gothitelle set: In the matchups where it actually does well a regular Gothitelle would probably serve you just as well, or a different Pokemon altogether. In the matchups where it just gets destroyed, anything would be better, whether thats a different Gothitelle set, a Pokemon that is better suited to do anything at all but give out free turns like candy or even not having a 6th Pokemon at all. Outclassed doesn't even begin to describe this Gothitelle set: in some cases it even leaves you at a severe disadvantage. And with the decline of Mega Venusaur on stall, even that "niche" of destroying one of the old archetypes of stall is gone. Modern stall focuses more on Pokemon such as Scizor and Charizard whom you don't stand a chance against. It is a horrible ladder gimmick that was invented to reduce the thinking needed (on par with stuff such as Haze Quagsire; I hope I don't have to write up a post as to why that set is also flawed in many ways) but, in an actual "high level playing circuit", just falls flat on his face and leaves you at a severe disadvantage. There is almost nothing to gain from using this set and a lot to lose. There are so many Pokemon that do a role similar to it and, in many cases, even better. It's completely and absolutely terrible and I hope I outlined why that is the case. This is not getting an analysis, period. I don't even want a mention of it just because I honestly believe this is nothing any team in high level play (which is what we should prepare our readers for, as "ladder" or "lower level play" is a lot easier to adapt to once you actually know what you're doing) should ever utilize and I hope I made clear why.
Disclaimer: Obviously, not all ladder players are terrible and it would be dumb to think that. However, unless something drastic happens, I will always view the general population of the ladder as terrible because of sets like this existing. This post is in no way meant as an insult to any players in particular, but if it got interpreted that way then I'm sorry; maybe you shouldn't use TrickScarf Taunt Rest Gothitelle. And I'm sorry that this kinda ended up also touching upon the ladder and its players rather than just Gothitelle but I really felt like I had to explain why this even became common when it shouldn't have.
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Okay. I thought the precedent was to mention all popular sets, even if they suck (aka Whimsicott.)
But you know best.
But you know best.
I... can't even read that. Can I please have a tl;dr version?Okay, I'm double posting for this so this thread will get pushed to the top because I want to clarify this once and for all.
Trickscarf Taunt Rest Gothitelle is worthless. Complete garbage. A pathetic attempt at making a "stallbreaker" that, in all honesty, shouldn't even exist, regardless of whether this is in a ladder or tournament environment. It's literally the biggest waste of a teamslot in 95% of all games while you get the occassional "good matchup" 5% of the time. That is not smart teambuilding or Pokemon'ing or playing or whatever. It is a shitty ladder gimmick innovated by people such as this guy who define the ladder and make me wonder whether the ladder is worth anything at all or just inherently doomed to be worthless. If those kind of players are "top of the ladder" (and apparently this guy was) and are considered "the most skilled players of the game" then I'm glad to outline why this set is as awful as it is.
First of all, when looking at this set in a ladder environment, it might make sense. The higher-up ladder is dominated by Stall and for good reason: A bad player using Stall will pretty much always beat a bad player using Offense; the Stall player can just keep making systematic A-B switches while the Offense player will be unable to make the "plays", or double switches and right long term decisions needed to break that cycle of switches. By that logic you also don't need your whole team of 6 to handle all offensive threats since you're never really "threatened" by most players, which in turn means that you can devote that spot to a stallbreaker of your own. This means that, on the ladder side of things which is filled with mediocre and awful players, Stall will always dominate, so a Stall team that is able to beat other Stall teams will obviously do well. (Note that this only applies to "bad" players or "ladder" players; note that I might use the two synonymous at times when they obviously aren't always to be used in such a fashion but that's just how I see it when stuff like this awful Gothitelle set runs rampant. Furthermore, on a higher level of play, most of the stuff I outlined above obviously doesn't apply anymore as many more opportunities to outplay your opponent get used by "high level players". That is the reason why Stall as a whole is a lot more common on ladder than in tournaments: it's a lot easier and affordable to "play well" or "make plays" with Offense against Stall or even Offense against Offense than Stall against Offense as the stall players risks losing a crucial part of their team by going for double switches or by trying to deny double switches against an offensive player and thus can't risk it most of the time.)
However, that is inherently flawed thinking. By adding this set we are basically telling players "here, instead of actually thinking or improving your game just add this Pokemon which leaves you down 5-6 against offense but kind of wrecks some stall teams, especially on ladder". That is not the kind of thinking we should advocate or even promote. That is not to say that every player should run offense or "try to make plays" or whatever; Stall is obviously still a very valid option but when you use a Pokemon that literally only beats some sort of stall and is complete deadweight against other forms of stall while pretty much always being deadweight against offense, balance and other such things (I'll get to this later) then something is wrong; we should not offer shitty "ladder techs" as part of our analyses which will basically just make every single team ever worse but instead aim to actually make people better players and, in turn, teambuilders, especially when way better alternatives exist that won't make you a sitting duck against everything other than the one form of Stall you try to beat with that Gothitelle set such as Mega Mawile, Mega Medicham, Landorus-I, some Thundurus-I sets, Gengar, Taunt Heatran and, amusingly enough, regular Gothitelle sets. Obviously not all of these can singlehandedly beat every stall team, but they sure as hell can do it more effectively than TrickScarf Taunt Gothitelle. Except for the regular Gothitelle maybe, but at least that has other uses. Even stall can add win conditions against other stall teams that also have other uses such as Calm Mind Clefable or Stallbreaker Mew. There's always a different way than this pitiful Gothitelle set and, as I said before, we shouldn't promote the use of niche sets without an actual niche to our readers.
As for why this set sucks as much as it does, look at common battle situations. I'll always take a look at a more offensive inclined team and a more defensive inclined team using the Gothitelle in question facing off against Stall/Balance/Offense. While this obviously won't apply to all of the teams in any given category, it should give a pretty adequate estimate.
Goth Offense vs Stall: You don't even need Gothitelle in this matchup and it's pretty much a dead slot. Other Pokemon would be more useful to have in this scenario but I guess it's a "guaranteed" way to cripple a Pokemon thats troublesome to one of your sweepers. No idea why you would have this over a Gothitelle that can harm Pokemon instead of just PP Stalling most of them in vain though.
Goth Defense vs Stall: Depends a lot on the teams, but generally you'll cripple one of their walls which gives you an advantage, although that's kinda offset by the fact that the "modern" kind of Stall teams usually only have one of their Pokemon crippled by Gothitelle as Pokemon such as Charizard X are way more common and abuse the heck out of the free turns given my pathetically weak Psyshocks. That is, if you can even manage to successfully trap one of their Pokemon. Generally, though, Gothitelle should do well if you play smart.
Goth Offense vs Balance: Depending on the trappable Pokemon you might be in a pretty good position. However, as this is probably one of the best matchups for regular/Specs/whatever Gothitelle your Taunt Gothitelle probably feels rather useless and "dead weight". I would call this a good matchup for Gothitelle but that makes me question why the fuck you wouldn't use a normal set so I won't.
Goth Defense vs Balance: You can probably eliminate a key threat, but again, if you had a different win condition over this garbage you could probably do just as well. Depending on the offense the balanced team mounts crippling one of their mons with a Scarf can be helpful. Would be more helpful to actually kill something, though, and if there's a Mega Mawile you're kinda boned.
Goth Offense vs Offense: This is where Gothitelle just shows off its supreme shittiness. You will be down 5-6 pretty much all game because you will NOT be able to sufficiently trap something with just Psyshock and Trick. And even if you could, it's not like Gothitelle can really come in against anything (Keldeo just 2HKOs you while you don't OHKO back, etc) so if you really want to trap something you'd have to go 2 for 1 unless your opponent is a goober. Not to mention that the last thing an offensive teams wants to do is having a +2 full health Life Orb Bisharp on their ass. Or a full health +1 +1 Zard X. Or one of many other threats. Probably worse than useless actually.
Goth Defense vs Offense: Again, you "potentially" "cripple" one of their mons but then what? You don't have a 6th Pokemon with actual defensive utility you might need and will just get beaten down. Case in point being the replay posted at the start; if he had a Dragonite or something with actual utility it would have been much harder for me to just steamroll him, but as it stands he just got demolished.
That's the main problem with this Gothitelle set: In the matchups where it actually does well a regular Gothitelle would probably serve you just as well, or a different Pokemon altogether. In the matchups where it just gets destroyed, anything would be better, whether thats a different Gothitelle set, a Pokemon that is better suited to do anything at all but give out free turns like candy or even not having a 6th Pokemon at all. Outclassed doesn't even begin to describe this Gothitelle set: in some cases it even leaves you at a severe disadvantage. And with the decline of Mega Venusaur on stall, even that "niche" of destroying one of the old archetypes of stall is gone. Modern stall focuses more on Pokemon such as Scizor and Charizard whom you don't stand a chance against. It is a horrible ladder gimmick that was invented to reduce the thinking needed (on par with stuff such as Haze Quagsire; I hope I don't have to write up a post as to why that set is also flawed in many ways) but, in an actual "high level playing circuit", just falls flat on his face and leaves you at a severe disadvantage. There is almost nothing to gain from using this set and a lot to lose. There are so many Pokemon that do a role similar to it and, in many cases, even better. It's completely and absolutely terrible and I hope I outlined why that is the case. This is not getting an analysis, period. I don't even want a mention of it just because I honestly believe this is nothing any team in high level play (which is what we should prepare our readers for, as "ladder" or "lower level play" is a lot easier to adapt to once you actually know what you're doing) should ever utilize and I hope I made clear why.
Disclaimer: Obviously, not all ladder players are terrible and it would be dumb to think that. However, unless something drastic happens, I will always view the general population of the ladder as terrible because of sets like this existing. This post is in no way meant as an insult to any players in particular, but if it got interpreted that way then I'm sorry; maybe you shouldn't use TrickScarf Taunt Rest Gothitelle. And I'm sorry that this kinda ended up also touching upon the ladder and its players rather than just Gothitelle but I really felt like I had to explain why this even became common when it shouldn't have.
TrickScarf + Taunt + Rest Gothitelle sucks.
CrashinBoomBang said:
Same reason why any other set gets rejected.
I encourage you to read the whole thing though. Do you really want to waste 1807 words of sweat, determination, and
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There were a few things that needed fixing, but this is pretty good after a few checks.
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Overview
########
With Gengarite banned, Gothitelle retains its tried and true niche as the most versatile Shadow Tag user in the game. With its ability to trap and potentially dispatch threats to a team, it is a valuable partner on many team archetypes. It differentiates from its cousin Wobbuffet by possessing actual offensive presence, allowing it to be less passive in its job and potentially do more work. This is complemented by its reasonable special movepool, which can be tailored specifically to eliminate certain threats, and it allows Gothitelle to easily dismantle cores of common defensive Pokemon such as Mega Venusaur, Skarmory, and Heatran. These traits are extremely beneficial to it, as they allow Gothitelle to defeat stall teams with ease, often helping teammates immensely which struggle with stall teams. However, Gothitelle often struggles to be effective in XY's primarily offensive metagame, especially with the prevalence of VoltTurn. It suffers from remarkably average stats overall, with nothing immediately standing out aside from an above average Special Defense. Gothitelle's typing is also rather detrimental in the metagame; it is bad defensively and it isn't a great type to be locked into, especially with the prevalence of Aegislash and Bisharp, two incredibly common and dangerous Pokemon that can trap Gothitelle with Pursuit.
Choice Specs
########
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Psyshock / Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Energy Ball
move 4: Trick
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Choice Specs
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Modest
Moves
========
Gothitelle's chosen Psychic-type STAB attack allows it to deal heavy damage to or OHKO several popular offensive and defensive threats in the metagame, including Mega Venusaur, Assault Vest Conkeldurr, and Keldeo locked into Secret Sword. It is also Gothitelle's most powerful move, making it a decent choice against most threats that don't resist Psychic. Both have their own benefits: Psyshock OHKOes Assault Vest Conkeldurr and does more damage to special walls such as Blissey, Sylveon, and Goodra, while Psychic can OHKO Mega Venusaur cleanly with prior damage, and is generally more powerful. Thunderbolt is used to hit Skarmory, Mandibuzz, and Gyarados as primary targets you basically say this twice with different wording, but it also hits Togekiss, Azumarill, and Politoed. Hidden Power Fire is used mainly to hit Ferrothorn and (Mega) Scizor, and is guaranteed to OHKO physically defensive variants of both with Stealth Rock damage. Energy Ball is an alternative option to hit Quagsire, Gastrodon, Hippowdon, and Rotom-W, all of which also tend to be important parts of defensive cores. Grass Knot can take Energy Ball's place for a guaranteed OHKO on Hippowdon,(RC) as well as a harder hit on Tyranitar, but it does pittance to Rotom-W due to its low weight. Trick is the icing on the cake, allowing Gothitelle to instantly and severely cripple defensive tanks and walls, such as Chansey, Clefable, Porygon2, and Snorlax. It should be noted that unlike other Trick users, Gothitelle can be selective in targets it can use Trick on, so it doesn't have to worry about Pokemon with Mega Stones switching in.
Gothitelle isn't necessarily limited to the moves listed above; you can choose other moves and tailor slots your moveset depending on which threats your team has trouble with. Hidden Power Ice is an option for instantly OHKOing Gliscor, Garchomp, and Landorus-T, though Gothitelle might have trouble switching into these three for various reasons. Hidden Power Ground is used specifically for Heatran, but can also put a decent dent in Tyranitar and Bisharp when needed. Notably, when running a combination of Hidden Power Ground, Psychic, and Trick, Gothitelle can defeat and cripple the common stall core of Mega Venusaur, Heatran, and Chansey.
Set Details
========
The item of choice for this set, of course, is Choice Specs was that pun intended?, which gives Gothitelle the power to break through defensive cores and Pokemon. With Trick, it also operates as a nasty afterthought to item-reliant walls and tanks. While Gothitelle isn't exactly fast enough to outrun a majority of threats, maximized Special Attack and Speed are recommended so it stands a better chance of beating opponents that typically don't invest in their Speed, especially (Mega) Scizor, Rotom-W, Heatran, Mega Venusaur and Landorus-T. Modest nature is also recommended as Gothitelle requires the extra power and doesn't outrun anything particularly relevant with Timid aside from max Speed Adamant Breloom and Bisharp.
Alternatively, Gothitelle can invest in its bulk to better take hits at the cost of a higher chance of beating several faster threats. In this case, an EV spread of 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe can be used to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory and Politoed while investing the rest of the EVs in HP for extra bulk.
Usage Tips
========
The main goal of this set is to trap and eliminate the Pokemon in defensive cores to allow a sweeper to sweep after they have been removed. Notably, Gothitelle performs exceptionally well against stall teams, as it can cripple and dismantle multiple defensive Pokemon repeatedly without taking too much damage. As long as you can keep Gothitelle from taking too much chip damage, expect it to take down at least a couple of threats on stall teams. Playing with Gothitelle notably doesn't require much prediction, as the foe can't switch out. However, bear in mind that the opponent may be able to take advantage of the move at you will be locked into. To trap and KO successfully, Gothitelle must be at a reasonable level of health, especially when operating against hard-hitting or faster opponents. A good way to do this is by means of U-turn and Volt Switch, or after one of your Pokemon has fainted. Bringing it in on attacks is not recommended, especially physical or boosted ones, unless resisted.
Gothitelle itself has good, but modest overall bulk, so it can afford to take hits on both sides occasionally. The sight of Gothitelle in team preview could also lead the opponent to making strange double switches to avoid being trapped. This is easy to take advantage of, but be aware that you can also fall victim to bad switches. Also, trapping anything while the other team has a Pursuit user such as Bisharp or Aegislash is not recommended, as they will be able to KO Gothitelle back straight(remove space)away. The exception to this is if the Pokemon in your way is a huge threat to your team, and after it is gone things will be significantly easier for your win condition, so Gothitelle is not as necessary after it has taken down its important foe.
Team Options
========
Keep in mind that Gothitelle is purely a supporting attacker, so it doesn't actually need much support on its own. However, Gothitelle prefers switching in on its targets cleanly, making Volt Switch and U-turn very good helpful they are good moves regardless..., if not required, options. Examples of teammates that can use these moves include (Mega) Scizor, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and Thundurus, all of which have counters that can be immediately eliminated by Gothitelle. Rapid Spin and Defog are also helpful in ensuring Gothitelle can switch in cleanly, although keep in mind that when using Defog your own sweepers might require previously-set hazards. Latios, Latias, and Excadrill are good choices for this. Sticky Web is also optimal, as it allows Gothitelle to trap and KO a wider range of threats more efficiently without taking too much damage in the process. Shuckle and Smeargle are available good/decent you may choose one choices for this, but perform differently from each other, so the choice is dependent on your team.
Many offensive Pokemon in particular benefit from Gothitelle's trapping abilities. For instance, Thundurus often has trouble with Chansey, Hippowdon, and Quagsire depending on which set it's using; all three are easy pickings for Gothitelle thanks to Trick and its chosen Grass-type move. Gothitelle is also efficient at getting rid of Mega Venusaur, so Tail Glow Manaphy not only appreciates Gothitelle as a teammate, but also gains the freedom to use Energy Ball rather than Psychic. Gothitelle can also dismantle Quagsire, Hippowdon, and Skarmory easily, allowing it to work well with physical setup sweepers. Dragon Dance Mega Charizard X, Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar, Swords Dance Mega Pinsir, and Swords Dance Bisharp are just a few of many exceptional physical sweepers that perform well after said walls are eliminated. Finally, Gothitelle appreciates teammates that can threaten or set up on Pursuit users after it faints. Terrakion, Keldeo, and Greninja are just a few examples of threats that can match up decently against common Pursuit users.
Other Options
########
Gothitelle's movepool is colorful, and with Shadow Tag, this gives birth to loads of possible sets with different items and playstyles. Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball can be used to hit opposing Psychic- and Ghost-type opponents, such as Aegislash, Gourgeist, and Latios, harder than its other moves normally do. However, Gothitelle typically matches up poorly against these threats, as they can overwhelm it with powerful moves of their own, so it's usually not worth it. Thunder Wave, Heal Bell, Reflect, and Light Screen are cool support options that Gothitelle can use to help out its teammates, though it usually can't find a free moveslot for these moves. Using Choice Scarf allows Gothitelle to revenge kill faster, offensive Pokemon, but it isn't very powerful because of Gothitelle's naturally average Special Attack. Gothitelle's lack of power also disallows it from using Calm Mind effectively, especially because it also lacks good two-move coverage and recovery. If using Choice Specs ends up risking momentum for your team, you may consider using Expert Belt or Life Orb instead to avoid locking Gothitelle into a single move.;(Add semicolon) at the cost of power and the ability to Trick a Choice item onto defensive Pokemon, Gothitelle can trap and threaten multiple threats in a row with multiple coverage moves.
Checks & Counters
########
Because of its ability Shadow Tag, Gothitelle has no actual counters, as the definition of a counter requires the foe to be able to switch in on the Pokemon. However, the trapping can be avoided with U-turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass, the use of the item Shed Shell, by double switching out when Gothitelle is predicted to come in, or simply the fact that Ghost-types can't be trapped. However, Gothitelle definitely has checks, and there exist several opponents and factors that come close to being classified as “counters.”
**Aegislash**: Aegislash is the closest thing to a counter that exists for Gothitelle. Not only can it escape from Shadow Tag, but it can also typically tank Gothitelle's common attacks with ease, and OHKO back with a Ghost-type STAB move. If Gothitelle even attempts to revenge kill a weakened Aegislash, the latter can defend itself with Shadow Sneak.
**Pursuit users**: (Mega) Scizor, Tyranitar, and Bisharp can easily revenge kill Gothitelle after it has taken down a fellow foe. Scizor and Bisharp, however, risk being KOed by Choice Specs Hidden Power Fire, so they can only Pursuit trap Gothitelle if it is locked into another move.
**Switching moves**: U-turn, Volt Switch, and Baton Pass users can escape from the clutches of Gothitelle, forcing it to possibly be locked into the wrong move when faced against the switch-in. U-turn in particular hits Gothitelle super effectively. Common users of these moves include Rotom-W, Landorus-T, (Mega) Scizor, and Talonflame.
**Residual damage**: Gothitelle likes doing its job at reasonable health, especially if it aims to trap multiple targets in stall teams. Being damaged by status, weather, entry hazards, and Leech Seed will only serve to limit its switch-in and KO'ing opportunities.
**Faster attackers**: It is not difficult to KO Gothitelle due to its horrendous Speed, so faster opponents have an opportunity to do great damage to it before getting KO'ed by it. Assuming it is locked into a bad move, Gengar, Latios, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Pinsir, and many others can come in and even set up after Gothitelle has KOed something.
########
With Gengarite banned, Gothitelle retains its tried and true niche as the most versatile Shadow Tag user in the game. With its ability to trap and potentially dispatch threats to a team, it is a valuable partner on many team archetypes. It differentiates from its cousin Wobbuffet by possessing actual offensive presence, allowing it to be less passive in its job and potentially do more work. This is complemented by its reasonable special movepool, which can be tailored specifically to eliminate certain threats, and it allows Gothitelle to easily dismantle cores of common defensive Pokemon such as Mega Venusaur, Skarmory, and Heatran. These traits are extremely beneficial to it, as they allow Gothitelle to defeat stall teams with ease, often helping teammates immensely which struggle with stall teams. However, Gothitelle often struggles to be effective in XY's primarily offensive metagame, especially with the prevalence of VoltTurn. It suffers from remarkably average stats overall, with nothing immediately standing out aside from an above average Special Defense. Gothitelle's typing is also rather detrimental in the metagame; it is bad defensively and it isn't a great type to be locked into, especially with the prevalence of Aegislash and Bisharp, two incredibly common and dangerous Pokemon that can trap Gothitelle with Pursuit.
Choice Specs
########
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Psyshock / Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Energy Ball
move 4: Trick
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Choice Specs
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Modest
Moves
========
Gothitelle's chosen Psychic-type STAB attack allows it to deal heavy damage to or OHKO several popular offensive and defensive threats in the metagame, including Mega Venusaur, Assault Vest Conkeldurr, and Keldeo locked into Secret Sword. It is also Gothitelle's most powerful move, making it a decent choice against most threats that don't resist Psychic. Both have their own benefits: Psyshock OHKOes Assault Vest Conkeldurr and does more damage to special walls such as Blissey, Sylveon, and Goodra, while Psychic can OHKO Mega Venusaur cleanly with prior damage, and is generally more powerful. Thunderbolt is used to hit Skarmory, Mandibuzz, and Gyarados as primary targets you basically say this twice with different wording, but it also hits Togekiss, Azumarill, and Politoed. Hidden Power Fire is used mainly to hit Ferrothorn and (Mega) Scizor, and is guaranteed to OHKO physically defensive variants of both with Stealth Rock damage. Energy Ball is an alternative option to hit Quagsire, Gastrodon, Hippowdon, and Rotom-W, all of which also tend to be important parts of defensive cores. Grass Knot can take Energy Ball's place for a guaranteed OHKO on Hippowdon,(RC) as well as a harder hit on Tyranitar, but it does pittance to Rotom-W due to its low weight. Trick is the icing on the cake, allowing Gothitelle to instantly and severely cripple defensive tanks and walls, such as Chansey, Clefable, Porygon2, and Snorlax. It should be noted that unlike other Trick users, Gothitelle can be selective in targets it can use Trick on, so it doesn't have to worry about Pokemon with Mega Stones switching in.
Gothitelle isn't necessarily limited to the moves listed above; you can choose other moves and tailor slots your moveset depending on which threats your team has trouble with. Hidden Power Ice is an option for instantly OHKOing Gliscor, Garchomp, and Landorus-T, though Gothitelle might have trouble switching into these three for various reasons. Hidden Power Ground is used specifically for Heatran, but can also put a decent dent in Tyranitar and Bisharp when needed. Notably, when running a combination of Hidden Power Ground, Psychic, and Trick, Gothitelle can defeat and cripple the common stall core of Mega Venusaur, Heatran, and Chansey.
Set Details
========
The item of choice for this set, of course, is Choice Specs was that pun intended?, which gives Gothitelle the power to break through defensive cores and Pokemon. With Trick, it also operates as a nasty afterthought to item-reliant walls and tanks. While Gothitelle isn't exactly fast enough to outrun a majority of threats, maximized Special Attack and Speed are recommended so it stands a better chance of beating opponents that typically don't invest in their Speed, especially (Mega) Scizor, Rotom-W, Heatran, Mega Venusaur and Landorus-T. Modest nature is also recommended as Gothitelle requires the extra power and doesn't outrun anything particularly relevant with Timid aside from max Speed Adamant Breloom and Bisharp.
Alternatively, Gothitelle can invest in its bulk to better take hits at the cost of a higher chance of beating several faster threats. In this case, an EV spread of 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe can be used to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory and Politoed while investing the rest of the EVs in HP for extra bulk.
Usage Tips
========
The main goal of this set is to trap and eliminate the Pokemon in defensive cores to allow a sweeper to sweep after they have been removed. Notably, Gothitelle performs exceptionally well against stall teams, as it can cripple and dismantle multiple defensive Pokemon repeatedly without taking too much damage. As long as you can keep Gothitelle from taking too much chip damage, expect it to take down at least a couple of threats on stall teams. Playing with Gothitelle notably doesn't require much prediction, as the foe can't switch out. However, bear in mind that the opponent may be able to take advantage of the move at you will be locked into. To trap and KO successfully, Gothitelle must be at a reasonable level of health, especially when operating against hard-hitting or faster opponents. A good way to do this is by means of U-turn and Volt Switch, or after one of your Pokemon has fainted. Bringing it in on attacks is not recommended, especially physical or boosted ones, unless resisted.
Gothitelle itself has good, but modest overall bulk, so it can afford to take hits on both sides occasionally. The sight of Gothitelle in team preview could also lead the opponent to making strange double switches to avoid being trapped. This is easy to take advantage of, but be aware that you can also fall victim to bad switches. Also, trapping anything while the other team has a Pursuit user such as Bisharp or Aegislash is not recommended, as they will be able to KO Gothitelle back straight(remove space)away. The exception to this is if the Pokemon in your way is a huge threat to your team, and after it is gone things will be significantly easier for your win condition, so Gothitelle is not as necessary after it has taken down its important foe.
Team Options
========
Keep in mind that Gothitelle is purely a supporting attacker, so it doesn't actually need much support on its own. However, Gothitelle prefers switching in on its targets cleanly, making Volt Switch and U-turn very good helpful they are good moves regardless..., if not required, options. Examples of teammates that can use these moves include (Mega) Scizor, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and Thundurus, all of which have counters that can be immediately eliminated by Gothitelle. Rapid Spin and Defog are also helpful in ensuring Gothitelle can switch in cleanly, although keep in mind that when using Defog your own sweepers might require previously-set hazards. Latios, Latias, and Excadrill are good choices for this. Sticky Web is also optimal, as it allows Gothitelle to trap and KO a wider range of threats more efficiently without taking too much damage in the process. Shuckle and Smeargle are available good/decent you may choose one choices for this, but perform differently from each other, so the choice is dependent on your team.
Many offensive Pokemon in particular benefit from Gothitelle's trapping abilities. For instance, Thundurus often has trouble with Chansey, Hippowdon, and Quagsire depending on which set it's using; all three are easy pickings for Gothitelle thanks to Trick and its chosen Grass-type move. Gothitelle is also efficient at getting rid of Mega Venusaur, so Tail Glow Manaphy not only appreciates Gothitelle as a teammate, but also gains the freedom to use Energy Ball rather than Psychic. Gothitelle can also dismantle Quagsire, Hippowdon, and Skarmory easily, allowing it to work well with physical setup sweepers. Dragon Dance Mega Charizard X, Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar, Swords Dance Mega Pinsir, and Swords Dance Bisharp are just a few of many exceptional physical sweepers that perform well after said walls are eliminated. Finally, Gothitelle appreciates teammates that can threaten or set up on Pursuit users after it faints. Terrakion, Keldeo, and Greninja are just a few examples of threats that can match up decently against common Pursuit users.
Other Options
########
Gothitelle's movepool is colorful, and with Shadow Tag, this gives birth to loads of possible sets with different items and playstyles. Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball can be used to hit opposing Psychic- and Ghost-type opponents, such as Aegislash, Gourgeist, and Latios, harder than its other moves normally do. However, Gothitelle typically matches up poorly against these threats, as they can overwhelm it with powerful moves of their own, so it's usually not worth it. Thunder Wave, Heal Bell, Reflect, and Light Screen are cool support options that Gothitelle can use to help out its teammates, though it usually can't find a free moveslot for these moves. Using Choice Scarf allows Gothitelle to revenge kill faster, offensive Pokemon, but it isn't very powerful because of Gothitelle's naturally average Special Attack. Gothitelle's lack of power also disallows it from using Calm Mind effectively, especially because it also lacks good two-move coverage and recovery. If using Choice Specs ends up risking momentum for your team, you may consider using Expert Belt or Life Orb instead to avoid locking Gothitelle into a single move.;(Add semicolon) at the cost of power and the ability to Trick a Choice item onto defensive Pokemon, Gothitelle can trap and threaten multiple threats in a row with multiple coverage moves.
Checks & Counters
########
Because of its ability Shadow Tag, Gothitelle has no actual counters, as the definition of a counter requires the foe to be able to switch in on the Pokemon. However, the trapping can be avoided with U-turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass, the use of the item Shed Shell, by double switching out when Gothitelle is predicted to come in, or simply the fact that Ghost-types can't be trapped. However, Gothitelle definitely has checks, and there exist several opponents and factors that come close to being classified as “counters.”
**Aegislash**: Aegislash is the closest thing to a counter that exists for Gothitelle. Not only can it escape from Shadow Tag, but it can also typically tank Gothitelle's common attacks with ease, and OHKO back with a Ghost-type STAB move. If Gothitelle even attempts to revenge kill a weakened Aegislash, the latter can defend itself with Shadow Sneak.
**Pursuit users**: (Mega) Scizor, Tyranitar, and Bisharp can easily revenge kill Gothitelle after it has taken down a fellow foe. Scizor and Bisharp, however, risk being KOed by Choice Specs Hidden Power Fire, so they can only Pursuit trap Gothitelle if it is locked into another move.
**Switching moves**: U-turn, Volt Switch, and Baton Pass users can escape from the clutches of Gothitelle, forcing it to possibly be locked into the wrong move when faced against the switch-in. U-turn in particular hits Gothitelle super effectively. Common users of these moves include Rotom-W, Landorus-T, (Mega) Scizor, and Talonflame.
**Residual damage**: Gothitelle likes doing its job at reasonable health, especially if it aims to trap multiple targets in stall teams. Being damaged by status, weather, entry hazards, and Leech Seed will only serve to limit its switch-in and KO'ing opportunities.
**Faster attackers**: It is not difficult to KO Gothitelle due to its horrendous Speed, so faster opponents have an opportunity to do great damage to it before getting KO'ed by it. Assuming it is locked into a bad move, Gengar, Latios, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Pinsir, and many others can come in and even set up after Gothitelle has KOed something.
There were a few things that needed fixing, but this is pretty good after a few checks.
TRC.
REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS
2/2
Combo of some easy fixes + too few changes mean no stamp :{
REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS
Overview
########
With Gengarite banned, Gothitelle retains its tried and true niche as the most versatile Shadow Tag user in the game. With its ability to trap and potentially dispatch threats to a team, it is a valuable partner on many team archetypes. It differentiates from its cousin Wobbuffet by possessing actual offensive presence, allowing it to be less passive in its job and potentially do more work. This is complemented by its reasonable special movepool, which can be tailored specifically to eliminate certain threats, and it allows Gothitelle to easily dismantle cores of common defensive Pokemon such as Mega Venusaur, Skarmory, and Heatran. These traits are extremely beneficial to it, as they allow Gothitelle to defeat stall teams with ease, often helping teammates immensely which struggle with stall teams. However, Gothitelle often struggles to be effective in XY's primarily offensive metagame, especially with the prevalence of VoltTurn. It suffers from remarkably average stats overall, with nothing immediately standing out aside from an above-average Special Defense. Gothitelle's typing is also rather detrimental in the metagame; it is bad defensively and it isn't a great type to be locked into, especially with the prevalence of Aegislash and Bisharp, two incredibly common and dangerous Pokemon that can trap Gothitelle with Pursuit.
Choice Specs
########
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Psyshock / Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Energy Ball
move 4: Trick
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Choice Specs
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Modest
Moves
========
Gothitelle's chosen Psychic-type STAB attack allows it to deal heavy damage to or OHKO several popular offensive and defensive threats in the metagame, including Mega Venusaur, Assault Vest Conkeldurr, and Keldeo locked into Secret Sword. It is also Gothitelle's most powerful move, making it a decent choice against most threats that don't resist Psychic. Both have their own benefits: Psyshock OHKOes Assault Vest Conkeldurr and does more damage to special walls such as Blissey, Sylveon, and Goodra, while Psychic can OHKO Mega Venusaur cleanly with prior damage, and is generally more powerful. Thunderbolt is used to hit Skarmory, Mandibuzz, and Gyarados as primary targets you basically say this twice with different wording, but it also hits Togekiss, Azumarill, and Politoed. Hidden Power Fire is used mainly to hit Ferrothorn and (Mega) Scizor, and is guaranteed to OHKO physically defensive variants of both with Stealth Rock damage. Energy Ball is an alternative option to hit Quagsire, Gastrodon, Hippowdon, and Rotom-W, all of which also tend to be important parts of defensive cores. Grass Knot can take Energy Ball's place for a guaranteed OHKO on Hippowdon,(RC) as well as a harder hit on Tyranitar, but it does pittance to Rotom-W due to its low weight. Trick is the icing on the cake, allowing Gothitelle to instantly and severely cripple defensive tanks and walls, such as Chansey, Clefable, Porygon2, and Snorlax. It should be noted that unlike other Trick users, Gothitelle can be selective in targets it can use Trick on, so it doesn't have to worry about Pokemon with Mega Stones switching in.
Gothitelle isn't necessarily limited to the moves listed above; you can choose other moves and tailor slots your moveset depending on which threats your team has trouble with. Hidden Power Ice is an option for instantly OHKOing Gliscor, Garchomp, and Landorus-T, though Gothitelle might have trouble switching into these three for various reasons. Hidden Power Ground is used specifically for Heatran, but can also put a decent dent in Tyranitar and Bisharp when needed. Notably, when running a combination of Hidden Power Ground, Psychic, and Trick, Gothitelle can defeat and cripple the common stall core of Mega Venusaur, Heatran, and Chansey.
Set Details
========
The item of choice for this set, of course, is Choice Specs was that pun intended?, which gives Gothitelle the power to break through defensive cores and Pokemon. With Trick, it also operates as a nasty afterthought to item-reliant walls and tanks. While Gothitelle isn't exactly fast enough to outrun a majority of threats, maximized Special Attack and Speed are recommended so it stands a better chance of beating opponents that typically don't invest in their Speed, especially (Mega) Scizor, Rotom-W, Heatran, Mega Venusaur and Landorus-T. Modest nature is also recommended as Gothitelle requires the extra power and doesn't outrun anything particularly relevant with Timid aside from max Speed Adamant Breloom and Bisharp.
Alternatively, Gothitelle can invest in its bulk to better take hits at the cost of a higher chance of beating several faster threats. In this case, an EV spread of 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe can be used to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory and Politoed while investing the rest of the EVs in HP for extra bulk.
Usage Tips
========
The main goal of this set is to trap and eliminate the Pokemon in defensive cores to allow a sweeper to sweep after they have been removed. Notably, Gothitelle performs exceptionally well against stall teams, as it can cripple and dismantle multiple defensive Pokemon repeatedly without taking too much damage. As long as you can keep Gothitelle from taking too much chip damage, expect it to take down at least a couple of threats on stall teams. Playing with Gothitelle notably doesn't require much prediction, as the foe can't switch out. However, bear in mind that the opponent may be able to take advantage of the move at you will be locked into. To trap and KO successfully, Gothitelle must be at a reasonable level of health, especially when operating against hard-hitting or faster opponents. A good way to do this is by means of U-turn and Volt Switch, or after one of your Pokemon has fainted. Bringing it in on attacks is not recommended, especially physical or boosted ones, unless resisted.
Gothitelle itself has good, but modest, (AC) overall bulk, so it can afford to take hits on both sides occasionally. The sight of Gothitelle in team preview could also lead the opponent to making strange double switches to avoid being trapped. This is easy to take advantage of, but be aware that you can also fall victim to bad switches. Also, trapping anything while the other team has a Pursuit user such as Bisharp or Aegislash is not recommended, as they will be able to KO Gothitelle back straight(remove space)away. The exception to this is if the Pokemon in your way is a huge threat to your team, and after it is gone things will be significantly easier for your win condition, so Gothitelle is not as necessary after it has taken down its important foe.
Team Options
========
Keep in mind that Gothitelle is purely a supporting attacker, so it doesn't actually need much support on its own. However, Gothitelle prefers switching in on its targets cleanly, making Volt Switch and U-turn very good helpful they are good moves regardless..., if not required, options. Examples of teammates that can use these moves include (Mega) Scizor, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and Thundurus, all of which have counters that can be immediately eliminated by Gothitelle. Rapid Spin and Defog are also helpful in ensuring Gothitelle can switch in cleanly, although keep in mind that when using Defog your own sweepers might require previously-set entry hazards. Latios, Latias, and Excadrill are good choices for this. Sticky Web is also optimal, as it allows Gothitelle to trap and KO a wider range of threats more efficiently without taking too much damage in the process. Shuckle and Smeargle are available good/decent you may choose one choices for this, but perform differently from each other, so the choice is dependent on your team.
Many offensive Pokemon in particular benefit from Gothitelle's trapping abilities. For instance, Thundurus often has trouble with Chansey, Hippowdon, and Quagsire depending on which set it's using; all three are easy pickings for Gothitelle thanks to Trick and its chosen Grass-type move. Gothitelle is also efficient at getting rid of Mega Venusaur, so Tail Glow Manaphy not only appreciates Gothitelle as a teammate, but also gains the freedom to use Energy Ball rather than Psychic. Gothitelle can also dismantle Quagsire, Hippowdon, and Skarmory easily, allowing it to work well with physical setup sweepers. Dragon Dance Mega Charizard X, Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar, Swords Dance Mega Pinsir, and Swords Dance Bisharp are just a few of many exceptional physical sweepers that perform well after said walls are eliminated. Finally, Gothitelle appreciates teammates that can threaten or set up on Pursuit users after it faints. Terrakion, Keldeo, and Greninja are just a few examples of threats that can match up decently against common Pursuit users.
Other Options
########
Gothitelle's movepool is colorful, and with Shadow Tag, this gives birth to loads of possible sets with different items and playstyles. Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball can be used to hit opposing Psychic- and Ghost-type opponents, such as Aegislash, Gourgeist, and Latios, harder than its other moves normally do. However, Gothitelle typically matches up poorly against these threats, as they can overwhelm it with powerful moves of their own, so it's usually not worth it. Thunder Wave, Heal Bell, Reflect, and Light Screen are cool support options that Gothitelle can use to help out its teammates, though it usually can't find a free moveslot for these moves. Using Choice Scarf allows Gothitelle to revenge kill faster, offensive Pokemon, but it isn't very powerful because of Gothitelle's naturally average Special Attack. Gothitelle's lack of power also disallows it from using Calm Mind effectively, especially because it also lacks good two-move coverage and recovery. If using Choice Specs ends up risking momentum for your team, you may can consider using Expert Belt or Life Orb instead to avoid locking Gothitelle into a single move.;(Add semicolon) at yay correct semicolon use gj UUh :) the cost of power and the ability to Trick a Choice item onto defensive Pokemon, Gothitelle can trap and threaten multiple threats in a row with multiple coverage moves.
Checks & Counters
########
Because of its ability Shadow Tag, Gothitelle has no actual counters, as the definition of a counter requires the foe to be able to switch in on the Pokemon. However, the trapping can be avoided with U-turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass, the use of the item Shed Shell, by double switching out when Gothitelle is predicted to come in, or simply the fact that Ghost-types can't be trapped. However, Gothitelle definitely has checks, and there exist several opponents and factors that come close to being classified as "counters." 2curly4me
**Aegislash**: Aegislash is the closest thing to a counter that exists for Gothitelle. Not only can it escape from Shadow Tag, but it can also typically tank Gothitelle's common attacks with ease, (RC) and OHKO back with a Ghost-type STAB move. If Gothitelle even attempts to revenge kill a weakened Aegislash, the latter can defend itself with Shadow Sneak.
**Pursuit Users**: (Mega) Scizor, Tyranitar, and Bisharp can easily revenge kill Gothitelle after it has taken down a fellow foe. Scizor and Bisharp, however, risk being KOed by Choice Specs-boosted Hidden Power Fire, so they can only Pursuit trap Gothitelle if it is locked into another move.
**Switching Moves**: U-turn, Volt Switch, and Baton Pass users can escape from the clutches of Gothitelle, forcing it to possibly be locked into the wrong move when faced against the switch-in. U-turn in particular hits Gothitelle super effectively. Common users of these moves include Rotom-W, Landorus-T, (Mega) Scizor, and Talonflame.
**Residual Damage**: Gothitelle likes doing its job at reasonable health, especially if it aims to trap multiple targets in stall teams. Being damaged by status, weather, entry hazards, and Leech Seed will only serve to limit its switch-in and KO'ing notice this pls trc! opportunities.
**Faster Attackers**:ahhhhhhhhhh UUh how could you do this It is not difficult to KO Gothitelle due to its horrendous Speed, so faster opponents have an opportunity to do great damage to it before getting KO'ed also notice this by it. Assuming it is locked into a bad move, Gengar, Latios, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Pinsir, and many others can come in and even set up after Gothitelle has KOed something.
########
With Gengarite banned, Gothitelle retains its tried and true niche as the most versatile Shadow Tag user in the game. With its ability to trap and potentially dispatch threats to a team, it is a valuable partner on many team archetypes. It differentiates from its cousin Wobbuffet by possessing actual offensive presence, allowing it to be less passive in its job and potentially do more work. This is complemented by its reasonable special movepool, which can be tailored specifically to eliminate certain threats, and it allows Gothitelle to easily dismantle cores of common defensive Pokemon such as Mega Venusaur, Skarmory, and Heatran. These traits are extremely beneficial to it, as they allow Gothitelle to defeat stall teams with ease, often helping teammates immensely which struggle with stall teams. However, Gothitelle often struggles to be effective in XY's primarily offensive metagame, especially with the prevalence of VoltTurn. It suffers from remarkably average stats overall, with nothing immediately standing out aside from an above-average Special Defense. Gothitelle's typing is also rather detrimental in the metagame; it is bad defensively and it isn't a great type to be locked into, especially with the prevalence of Aegislash and Bisharp, two incredibly common and dangerous Pokemon that can trap Gothitelle with Pursuit.
Choice Specs
########
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Psyshock / Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Energy Ball
move 4: Trick
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Choice Specs
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Modest
Moves
========
Gothitelle's chosen Psychic-type STAB attack allows it to deal heavy damage to or OHKO several popular offensive and defensive threats in the metagame, including Mega Venusaur, Assault Vest Conkeldurr, and Keldeo locked into Secret Sword. It is also Gothitelle's most powerful move, making it a decent choice against most threats that don't resist Psychic. Both have their own benefits: Psyshock OHKOes Assault Vest Conkeldurr and does more damage to special walls such as Blissey, Sylveon, and Goodra, while Psychic can OHKO Mega Venusaur cleanly with prior damage, and is generally more powerful. Thunderbolt is used to hit Skarmory, Mandibuzz, and Gyarados as primary targets you basically say this twice with different wording, but it also hits Togekiss, Azumarill, and Politoed. Hidden Power Fire is used mainly to hit Ferrothorn and (Mega) Scizor, and is guaranteed to OHKO physically defensive variants of both with Stealth Rock damage. Energy Ball is an alternative option to hit Quagsire, Gastrodon, Hippowdon, and Rotom-W, all of which also tend to be important parts of defensive cores. Grass Knot can take Energy Ball's place for a guaranteed OHKO on Hippowdon,(RC) as well as a harder hit on Tyranitar, but it does pittance to Rotom-W due to its low weight. Trick is the icing on the cake, allowing Gothitelle to instantly and severely cripple defensive tanks and walls, such as Chansey, Clefable, Porygon2, and Snorlax. It should be noted that unlike other Trick users, Gothitelle can be selective in targets it can use Trick on, so it doesn't have to worry about Pokemon with Mega Stones switching in.
Gothitelle isn't necessarily limited to the moves listed above; you can choose other moves and tailor slots your moveset depending on which threats your team has trouble with. Hidden Power Ice is an option for instantly OHKOing Gliscor, Garchomp, and Landorus-T, though Gothitelle might have trouble switching into these three for various reasons. Hidden Power Ground is used specifically for Heatran, but can also put a decent dent in Tyranitar and Bisharp when needed. Notably, when running a combination of Hidden Power Ground, Psychic, and Trick, Gothitelle can defeat and cripple the common stall core of Mega Venusaur, Heatran, and Chansey.
Set Details
========
The item of choice for this set, of course, is Choice Specs was that pun intended?, which gives Gothitelle the power to break through defensive cores and Pokemon. With Trick, it also operates as a nasty afterthought to item-reliant walls and tanks. While Gothitelle isn't exactly fast enough to outrun a majority of threats, maximized Special Attack and Speed are recommended so it stands a better chance of beating opponents that typically don't invest in their Speed, especially (Mega) Scizor, Rotom-W, Heatran, Mega Venusaur and Landorus-T. Modest nature is also recommended as Gothitelle requires the extra power and doesn't outrun anything particularly relevant with Timid aside from max Speed Adamant Breloom and Bisharp.
Alternatively, Gothitelle can invest in its bulk to better take hits at the cost of a higher chance of beating several faster threats. In this case, an EV spread of 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe can be used to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory and Politoed while investing the rest of the EVs in HP for extra bulk.
Usage Tips
========
The main goal of this set is to trap and eliminate the Pokemon in defensive cores to allow a sweeper to sweep after they have been removed. Notably, Gothitelle performs exceptionally well against stall teams, as it can cripple and dismantle multiple defensive Pokemon repeatedly without taking too much damage. As long as you can keep Gothitelle from taking too much chip damage, expect it to take down at least a couple of threats on stall teams. Playing with Gothitelle notably doesn't require much prediction, as the foe can't switch out. However, bear in mind that the opponent may be able to take advantage of the move at you will be locked into. To trap and KO successfully, Gothitelle must be at a reasonable level of health, especially when operating against hard-hitting or faster opponents. A good way to do this is by means of U-turn and Volt Switch, or after one of your Pokemon has fainted. Bringing it in on attacks is not recommended, especially physical or boosted ones, unless resisted.
Gothitelle itself has good, but modest, (AC) overall bulk, so it can afford to take hits on both sides occasionally. The sight of Gothitelle in team preview could also lead the opponent to making strange double switches to avoid being trapped. This is easy to take advantage of, but be aware that you can also fall victim to bad switches. Also, trapping anything while the other team has a Pursuit user such as Bisharp or Aegislash is not recommended, as they will be able to KO Gothitelle back straight(remove space)away. The exception to this is if the Pokemon in your way is a huge threat to your team, and after it is gone things will be significantly easier for your win condition, so Gothitelle is not as necessary after it has taken down its important foe.
Team Options
========
Keep in mind that Gothitelle is purely a supporting attacker, so it doesn't actually need much support on its own. However, Gothitelle prefers switching in on its targets cleanly, making Volt Switch and U-turn very good helpful they are good moves regardless..., if not required, options. Examples of teammates that can use these moves include (Mega) Scizor, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and Thundurus, all of which have counters that can be immediately eliminated by Gothitelle. Rapid Spin and Defog are also helpful in ensuring Gothitelle can switch in cleanly, although keep in mind that when using Defog your own sweepers might require previously-set entry hazards. Latios, Latias, and Excadrill are good choices for this. Sticky Web is also optimal, as it allows Gothitelle to trap and KO a wider range of threats more efficiently without taking too much damage in the process. Shuckle and Smeargle are available good/decent you may choose one choices for this, but perform differently from each other, so the choice is dependent on your team.
Many offensive Pokemon in particular benefit from Gothitelle's trapping abilities. For instance, Thundurus often has trouble with Chansey, Hippowdon, and Quagsire depending on which set it's using; all three are easy pickings for Gothitelle thanks to Trick and its chosen Grass-type move. Gothitelle is also efficient at getting rid of Mega Venusaur, so Tail Glow Manaphy not only appreciates Gothitelle as a teammate, but also gains the freedom to use Energy Ball rather than Psychic. Gothitelle can also dismantle Quagsire, Hippowdon, and Skarmory easily, allowing it to work well with physical setup sweepers. Dragon Dance Mega Charizard X, Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar, Swords Dance Mega Pinsir, and Swords Dance Bisharp are just a few of many exceptional physical sweepers that perform well after said walls are eliminated. Finally, Gothitelle appreciates teammates that can threaten or set up on Pursuit users after it faints. Terrakion, Keldeo, and Greninja are just a few examples of threats that can match up decently against common Pursuit users.
Other Options
########
Gothitelle's movepool is colorful, and with Shadow Tag, this gives birth to loads of possible sets with different items and playstyles. Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball can be used to hit opposing Psychic- and Ghost-type opponents, such as Aegislash, Gourgeist, and Latios, harder than its other moves normally do. However, Gothitelle typically matches up poorly against these threats, as they can overwhelm it with powerful moves of their own, so it's usually not worth it. Thunder Wave, Heal Bell, Reflect, and Light Screen are cool support options that Gothitelle can use to help out its teammates, though it usually can't find a free moveslot for these moves. Using Choice Scarf allows Gothitelle to revenge kill faster, offensive Pokemon, but it isn't very powerful because of Gothitelle's naturally average Special Attack. Gothitelle's lack of power also disallows it from using Calm Mind effectively, especially because it also lacks good two-move coverage and recovery. If using Choice Specs ends up risking momentum for your team, you may can consider using Expert Belt or Life Orb instead to avoid locking Gothitelle into a single move.;(Add semicolon) at yay correct semicolon use gj UUh :) the cost of power and the ability to Trick a Choice item onto defensive Pokemon, Gothitelle can trap and threaten multiple threats in a row with multiple coverage moves.
Checks & Counters
########
Because of its ability Shadow Tag, Gothitelle has no actual counters, as the definition of a counter requires the foe to be able to switch in on the Pokemon. However, the trapping can be avoided with U-turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass, the use of the item Shed Shell, by double switching out when Gothitelle is predicted to come in, or simply the fact that Ghost-types can't be trapped. However, Gothitelle definitely has checks, and there exist several opponents and factors that come close to being classified as "counters." 2curly4me
**Aegislash**: Aegislash is the closest thing to a counter that exists for Gothitelle. Not only can it escape from Shadow Tag, but it can also typically tank Gothitelle's common attacks with ease, (RC) and OHKO back with a Ghost-type STAB move. If Gothitelle even attempts to revenge kill a weakened Aegislash, the latter can defend itself with Shadow Sneak.
**Pursuit Users**: (Mega) Scizor, Tyranitar, and Bisharp can easily revenge kill Gothitelle after it has taken down a fellow foe. Scizor and Bisharp, however, risk being KOed by Choice Specs-boosted Hidden Power Fire, so they can only Pursuit trap Gothitelle if it is locked into another move.
**Switching Moves**: U-turn, Volt Switch, and Baton Pass users can escape from the clutches of Gothitelle, forcing it to possibly be locked into the wrong move when faced against the switch-in. U-turn in particular hits Gothitelle super effectively. Common users of these moves include Rotom-W, Landorus-T, (Mega) Scizor, and Talonflame.
**Residual Damage**: Gothitelle likes doing its job at reasonable health, especially if it aims to trap multiple targets in stall teams. Being damaged by status, weather, entry hazards, and Leech Seed will only serve to limit its switch-in and KO'ing notice this pls trc! opportunities.
**Faster Attackers**:ahhhhhhhhhh UUh how could you do this It is not difficult to KO Gothitelle due to its horrendous Speed, so faster opponents have an opportunity to do great damage to it before getting KO'ed also notice this by it. Assuming it is locked into a bad move, Gengar, Latios, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Pinsir, and many others can come in and even set up after Gothitelle has KOed something.
2/2
Combo of some easy fixes + too few changes mean no stamp :{
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