Pokémon Greninja

[TROP]

People like you are why I dislike Smogon in general. Sure, its not a special set, but it works. Especially with the flinch rate on Water Shuriken. Many a user has ragequit from being paraflinched by Bounce and then water Shuriken. It works, and sure I am not conforming but you know what, it works.

I mean granted there are some nice sorts on Smogon, but the Elitest and Snobby attitude is just disgusting. I try to win with my favourites my way, not the way everyone else tells me.

People expect my Greninja in battles to be specially based and are rather surprised when it is not. I do not want to go Cookie Cutter and use what everyone else is using

Just because "lol it works for me no hate pls" doesn't mean it is a viable set. All of its moves are weaker, don't achieve cool things like OHKOing Dragonite through Multiscale, OHKO Ferrothorn before it gets spikes up against me while i do nothing(or die to recoil). Not only Greninja's special attack is higher, its special moves are also stronger(most important part repeated because it is a well known fact), and have superior coverage and/or typings to take some attacks like Excadrill's earthquake. I see 0 valid reasons to use physical Greninja over its superior special sets. And I repeat: "just because it works for me" is not a valid argument.

Creativity is a good thing, but using it as an "argument" to justify using clearly terrible sets is not good.

TL;DR : https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

 

[Magicfire]

I disagree at this point in particular, but the rest of your post is solid.

If you're using Hydro Pump/Surf, Ice Beam, and U-Turn which is fairly standard at this point I'd think (And if you aren't taking U-Turn, you should be taking Dark Pulse), then it hardly matters. You are either going to take HP Fire, or Grass Knot. So if you take HP Grass, it is essentially taking a "safer" alternative to Grass Knot. You're not losing the HP Fire slot because your move set would be full.

Not that I would do that, but just saying that you aren't really losing any coverage by doing so.

I believe what he means is that HP Grass takes up the Hidden Power slot.

 

[Bravadorado]

I believe what he means is that HP Grass takes up the Hidden Power slot.

Even so, Grass Knot is still very viable for coverage instead of HP Fire, and so HP Grass wouldn't be a terrible option. They are both used to stop certain bulky things that otherwise wall you.

It would be a "safer" version of Grass Knot. I wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't tell people to do it, but I can see why some would opt for HP Grass. I just wouldn't discredit the entire idea, because it does have some merit (Even if that merit is small).

 

[Shroomisaur]

Yes, let's not pretend that Greninja is running HP Grass for coverage... Greninja is running it for exactly one pokemon: Rotom-W.

Honestly Rotom-W is so ubiquitous that I've tried HP Grass myself on a lead Spikes Greninja, because Rotom-W is a very common lead thanks to its amazing utility. A surprise HP Grass will cripple Rotom for the rest of the match and allow teammates like Talonflame to break through the opposing team. In all cases outside of Wash, Grass Knot is superior, but Rotom-W is by far the most common of those threats listed.

That said, outside of the lead slot, I've found no use for HP Grass over Grass Knot, because it leaves you sorely missing HP Fire against Scizor/Ferro/Skarm, and Greninja's moveslots are worth a premium. Greninja's greatest asset is you can pick the coverage that your team needs most and instantly have STAB on all of it.

 

[SJCrew]

I don't think Greninja necessarily needs any kind of Hidden Power at all. Even with the STAB it's such a horribly weak move that it will scarcely KO the Pokemon you're bringing it for. Dark Pulse into U-turn, on the other hand, just about guarantees a chunk of damage off of anything you can't KO right away. I'd recommend Hydro Pump/Dark Pulse/Ice Beam/U-turn over anything.

 

[Magicfire]

I don't think Greninja necessarily needs any kind of Hidden Power at all. Even with the STAB it's such a horribly weak move that it will scarcely KO the Pokemon you're bringing it for. Dark Pulse into U-turn, on the other hand, just about guarantees a chunk of damage off of anything you can't KO right away. I'd recommend Hydro Pump/Dark Pulse/Ice Beam/U-turn over anything.

Yes, but HP Fire with STAB reaches 90 BP. People are underestimating Greninja, and I think people would stop if they thought of HP Fire as a Flamethrower without STAB.

HP Fire is the only thing that can let Greninja beat Scizor and Ferrothorn easily, and you don't want to U-Turn on Ferrothorn, with Iron Barbs and all.

 

[Shroomisaur]

I don't think Greninja necessarily needs any kind of Hidden Power at all. Even with the STAB it's such a horribly weak move that it will scarcely KO the Pokemon you're bringing it for.

By your logic, Genesect should never run Flamethrower. Or Thunderbolt, or Ice Beam. Because those all have the same base power as Greninja's Hidden Power of the repective type, 90 BP.

Does Greninja NEED Hidden Power, no, of course not. But Greninja's biggest asset is his versatility, and Hidden Power is a 90 BP move of any type that you choose, allowing you to customize what he KOs according to what your team needs.

 

[Bravadorado]

I don't think Greninja necessarily needs any kind of Hidden Power at all. Even with the STAB it's such a horribly weak move that it will scarcely KO the Pokemon you're bringing it for.

You'd be right, if this was normal Hidden Power. You seem to forget that HP was widely used as a coverage move when it was only at 70BP. With Greninja, the BP of HP is not 60, not 70, but 90. The reasoning is simple, tell me one pokemon besides Mr. Mime that you would use STAB HP on? I don't think any, because it isn't used as a STAB move, it is used as a coverage move. (As Shroomisaur has said) With Greninja, it becomes the same BP as Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Surf, Icebeam, etc, all of these are wonderful coverage moves to have. In fact, nearly every special sweeper will be using at least one of these moves for coverage if they have one in their movepool (Poor Jolteon).

A 90BP coverage move is nothing to sneeze at.

Also, I stand firm in my opinion that running U-Turn and Dark Pulse together is a bad idea. They cover similar threats when combined with Hydro Pump, I don't see why you wouldn't opt for a better coverage move. You say that Dark Pulse+ U-Turn can gaurentee a chunk of damage, but isn't that true for Hysro Pump + U-Turn as well? And then you also have additional coverage in grass/fire to outright KO the things that wall your set HARD (Ferrothorn, Scizor, any bulky water, etc).

 

[SJCrew]

Yes, but HP Fire with STAB reaches 90 BP. People are underestimating Greninja, and I think people would stop if they thought of HP Fire as a Flamethrower without STAB.

HP Fire is the only thing that can let Greninja beat Scizor and Ferrothorn easily, and you don't want to U-Turn on Ferrothorn, with Iron Barbs and all.

Scizor rarely threatens Greninja, but Ferrothorn is acknowledged. Overall, I find U-turn/Dark Pulse/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam to be useful in more battles, even with Ferrothorn present, as the ubiquitous Aegislash all but necessitates Greninja's strongest coverage move against it (Greninja can't even 2HKO Aegislash 1-on-1 with HP Fire), and U-turn is basically free damage on checks where coverage can't help you.

By your logic, Genesect should never run Flamethrower. Or Thunderbolt, or Ice Beam. Because those all have the same base power as Greninja's Hidden Power of the repective type, 90 BP.

Does Greninja NEED Hidden Power, no, of course not. But Greninja's biggest asset is his versatility, and Hidden Power is a 90 BP move of any type that you choose, allowing you to customize what he KOs according to what your team needs.

His Hidden Power options are just about all inferior to his non-Hidden Power options, and he gets STAB on those too. The only one of any real use is Hidden Power Fire for Ferrothorn. Once the Pokebank is available, Dark Pulse is only going to get better with Jirachi running around.

You'd be right, if this was normal Hidden Power. You seem to forget that HP was widely used as a coverage move when it was only at 70BP. With Greninja, the BP of HP is not 60, not 70, but 90. The reasoning is simple, tell me one pokemon besides Mr. Mime that you would use STAB HP on? I don't think any, because it isn't used as a STAB move, it is used as a coverage move. (As Shroomisaur has said) With Greninja, it becomes the same BP as Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Surf, Icebeam, etc, all of these are wonderful coverage moves to have. In fact, nearly every special sweeper will be using at least one of these moves for coverage if they have one in their movepool (Poor Jolteon).

A 90BP coverage move is nothing to sneeze at.

Also, I stand firm in my opinion that running U-Turn and Dark Pulse together is a bad idea. They cover similar threats when combined with Hydro Pump, I don't see why you wouldn't opt for a better coverage move. You say that Dark Pulse+ U-Turn can gaurentee a chunk of damage, but isn't that true for Hysro Pump + U-Turn as well? And then you also have additional coverage in grass/fire to outright KO the things that wall your set HARD (Ferrothorn, Scizor, any bulky water, etc).

All of this fluff to make no point. Greninja covers just about every Pokemon in the game with Dark/Ice/Water/U-turn coverage, with strong Grass and Psychic coverage if it is ever needed. Fire for Ferrothorn has already been covered, so what other options do you have with HP that aren't useless? HP Steel? Fight? Fairy? Every other HP is just a horrible move that Greninja doesn't ever need to use.

Dark Pulse, on the other hand, is one of Greninja's most effective moves. It has respectable BP, great neutral coverage, and surprising utility for some of the more obscure but still useful Ghosts and Psychics (like Deo-D and Mew) with the bonus of actually beating Aegislash. It's a more reliable move to toss out than Grass Knot or HP Fire by a longshot, and can deal good damage on a lot of Pokemon when combined with U-turn.

And lol @ bulky Waters. The bulky Water of choice is currently Rotom-W and none of Greninja's viable options hit it harder than Dark Pulse -> U-turn.

 

[Magicfire]

I know that Hidden Power Fire is the most viable Hidden Power, but I think what the other's main point is that Hidden Power is not a weak move when Greninja is using it.

The set to use is HP Fire or U-Turn/Extrasensory, Grass Knot, or Dark Pulse/Ice Beam/Hydro Pump.

 

[Bravadorado]

Scizor rarely threatens Greninja, but Ferrothorn is acknowledged. Overall, I find U-turn/Dark Pulse/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam to be useful in more battles, even with Ferrothorn present, as the ubiquitous Aegislash all but necessitates Greninja's strongest coverage move against it (Greninja can't even 2HKO Aegislash 1-on-1 with HP Fire), and U-turn is basically free damage on checks where coverage can't help you.


His Hidden Power options are just about all inferior to his non-Hidden Power options, and he gets STAB on those too. The only one of any real use is Hidden Power Fire for Ferrothorn. Once the Pokebank is available, Dark Pulse is only going to get better with Jirachi running around.


All of this fluff to make no point. Greninja covers just about every Pokemon in the game with Dark/Ice/Water/U-turn coverage, with strong Grass and Psychic coverage if it is ever needed. Fire for Ferrothorn has already been covered, so what other options do you have with HP that aren't useless? HP Steel? Fight? Fairy? Every other HP is just a horrible move that Greninja doesn't ever need to use.

Dark Pulse, on the other hand, is one of Greninja's most effective moves. It has respectable BP, great neutral coverage, and surprising utility for some of the more obscure but still useful Ghosts and Psychics (like Deo-D and Mew) with the bonus of actually beating Aegislash. It's a more reliable move to toss out than Grass Knot or HP Fire by a longshot, and can deal good damage on a lot of Pokemon when combined with U-turn.

And lol @ bulky Waters. The bulky Water of choice is currently Rotom-W and none of Greninja's viable options hit it harder than Dark Pulse -> U-turn.

Man I'm glad I skipped the first part to read your reply to me, when I went back and read the top it was clearly saving the best for last. This is Bulky SD Scizor with barely any investment:
40+ Atk Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 66-78 (23.15 - 27.36%) -- possible 4HKO

If you U-Turn out, you're taking at minimum 35% HP from a Bullet Punch. The only move you can use safely will be Hydro Pump if you stay in, because if you use Dark Pulse or Ice Beam then Scizor is going to OHKO you with every single move in his moveslot on most sets. Hydro Pump does 41.27 - 48.83% to him if he is Bulky SD, which will 3HKO him. At best, you are both going to kill each other due to LO recoil.

And god forbid he is a more offensive Scizor. Also, this isn't even mentioning the revenge kill potential, a more offensive Scizor can take you down for free if you use Ice Beam prior to the switch in, and generally 2HKO you in all other cases. Your only true hope against a Scizor is to use HP Fire, or switch out without using U-Turn.

Your point about Greninja not being able to 2HKO Aegislash is irrelevant, because even an unboosted and uninvested Sacred Sword will kill OHKO you in return if you use Dark Pulse. I'm too lazy to do the calc, but if a 90 BP move can't even 2HKO (As you say), then there is no way that a 120 BP move will OHKO, considering that both are super effective. So if you use Dark Pulse, you die instantly to Aegislash. Not to mention you shouldn't be trying to fight Aegislash with Greninja in the first place, but if you have to at some point, HP Fire will at least let you put some good damage on before croaking (pun intended).

HP Fire hits Ferrothorn, Scizor, and basically anything Steel besides Heatran. As for Jirachi:
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 166-198 (41.08 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 190-226 (47.02 - 55.94%) -- 18.75% chance to 2HKO

Dark Pulse only KO's Jirachi faster 19% of the time, I'd say the huge coverage gained from HP Fire is worth that.

U-Turn + Hydro Pump can hit basically everything that Dark Pulse hits for the same or near OHKO. Nothing will hit bulky steels or waters as hard as HP Fire/Grass Knot.

"And lol @" being so ignorant as to think that just because Rotom-W is prevalent in the meta game that no other dangerous bulky waters exist.

Even if Rotom-W was the only water I was talking about:
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Rotom-W: 91-109 (30.03 - 35.97%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 52-62 (17.16 - 20.46%) -- possible 7HKO

So that is 47.19 - 56.43% over two turns.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Rotom-W: 159-190 (52.47 - 62.7%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO

Shroomisaur just brought up using HP Grass as a surprise for Rotom-W, and it is also effective at murdering a lot of the threats that Grass Knot is used for.

I typed all this up, but honestly your argument was pretty invalid after you said "Scizor rarely threatens Greninja".

TL;DR: Use Dark Pulse or U-Turn, not both. The benefits/coverage/OHKOs are similar when used with Hydro Pump, and using them both will take away valuable grass/fire coverage.

 

[ChaoticShinra]

This may be off topic, but I've finally achieve HP Fire Protean Hasty Froakie in-game with the current hidden power calculator. The IV spread is 29/30/31/30/31/30 so HP is just 2 points off. But that shouldn't be too much of a problem right? So HP Fire is highly recommend for coverage right? What should my EV spread be?

 

[VCrowe]

This may be off topic, but I've finally achieve HP Fire Protean Hasty Froakie in-game with the current hidden power calculator. The IV spread is 29/30/31/30/31/30 so HP is just 2 points off. But that shouldn't be too much of a problem right? So HP Fire is highly recommend for coverage right? What should my EV spread be?

I recommend 96 Atk / 168 SAtk / 244 Speed. The only thing achieved by running max speed, is speed-tying other Greninja, which IMO should be avoided like the plague. You only need 168 SAtk EV's to grab essential OHKO's and 2HKO's, so the rest can be put into Atk for harder hitting U-turns.
It entirely depends on preference though, since some people beleive a speed-tie is more beneficial.

 

[Bravadorado]

plauge.

Totally off topic: Oh my god VCrowe, you're cool and all but if I see you misspell "Plague" one more time, I'm going to scream T.T This is the third time! :O

 

[VCrowe]

Totally off topic: Oh my god VCrowe, you're cool and all but if I see you misspell "Plague" on more time, I'm going to scream T.T This is the third time! :O

iOS' auto-correct system was developed by douchebags -.-

 

[RockStarFish]

I recommend 96 Atk / 168 SAtk / 244 Speed. The only thing achieved by running max speed, is speed-tying other Greninja, which IMO should be avoided like the plague. You only need 168 SAtk EV's to grab essential OHKO's and 2HKO's, so the rest can be put into Atk for harder hitting U-turns.
It entirely depends on preference though, since some people beleive a speed-tie is more beneficial.

Is 244 Spe the blanket Speed investment recommendation for mixed Greninja, or is it just for those running HP Fire to counteract the 30IV?

 

[Schpoonman]

344 is the recommended number floating around. I've been out of the loop recently, but what I've gathered is that it outspeeds base 120s (Alakazam, Dugtrio) with a 30 in Speed. Presumably it will be bumped up to 252 flat upon Tornadus-T's release in December.

 

[VCrowe]

344 is the recommended number floating around. I've been out of the loop recently, but what I've gathered is that it outspeeds base 120s (Alakazam, Dugtrio) with a 30 in Speed. Presumably it will be bumped up to 252 flat upon Tornadus-T's release in December.

244 Speed Greninja (with HP Fire) is one point shy of Speed-tying Tornadus-T. Honestly, I'd rather keep 244 and just take out opposing Tornadus-T with a different 'mon. Not to mention that Tornadus-T was über last Gen, and I see no reason of it falling down to OU. 244 Speed EV's with 30 IV's outspeed everything in the current OU meta except max speed Greninja. And you all know how I feel about that.

Is 244 Spe the blanket Speed investment recommendation for mixed Greninja, or is it just for those running HP Fire to counteract the 30IV?

It's the recommendation for mixed Greninja, since those EV's are being put into Atk.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Is 244 Spe the blanket Speed investment recommendation for mixed Greninja, or is it just for those running HP Fire to counteract the 30IV?

344 is the recommended number floating around. I've been out of the loop recently, but what I've gathered is that it outspeeds base 120s (Alakazam, Dugtrio) with a 30 in Speed. Presumably it will be bumped up to 252 flat upon Tornadus-T's release in December.

Not to mention there's no reason to run anything less than 252 Speed EVs anyway.

*sigh* Anyway...

His Hidden Power options are just about all inferior to his non-Hidden Power options, and he gets STAB on those too. The only one of any real use is Hidden Power Fire for Ferrothorn. Once the Pokebank is available, Dark Pulse is only going to get better with Jirachi running around.

I wasn't arguing that Dark Pulse isn't a great move, I was just pointing out that citing "low base power" as a reason not to run Hidden Power is complete nonsense since it has just as much power as a Flamethrower or Tbolt on anything not named Greninja. Fire is obviously the big one to KO Ferro, Scizor, and don't forget:

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Mega Scizor: 348-411 (101.45 - 119.82%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's a pretty big deal, and it's your best attack against Mega Mawile too.

The one thing to note about running HP Fire on Greninja is that you can become extremely predictable. For example, I just finished a match where my Ferrothorn was out, and my opponent switched in Greninja despite having Talonflame waiting in the wings. This is a dead giveaway, so I just immediately went out to Rotom and soaked up the obvious HP Fire.

 

[VCrowe]

Not to mention there's no reason to run anything less than 252 Speed EVs anyway.

*sigh* Anyway...

I wasn't arguing that Dark Pulse isn't a great move, I was just pointing out that citing "low base power" as a reason not to run Hidden Power is complete nonsense since it has just as much power as a Flamethrower or Tbolt on anything not named Greninja. Fire is obviously the big one to KO Ferro, Scizor, and don't forget:

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Mega Scizor: 348-411 (101.45 - 119.82%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's a pretty big deal, and it's your best attack against Mega Mawile too.

The one thing to note about running HP Fire on Greninja is that you can become extremely predictable. For example, I just finished a match where my Ferrothorn was out, and my opponent switched in Greninja despite having Talonflame waiting in the wings. This is a dead giveaway, so I just immediately went out to Rotom and soaked up the obvious HP Fire.

Again, personal preferance. Your entitled to your opinion, but right now it just seems like your trying to drag up a dead debate. There will be many people who would rather run max speed, but there will also be just as many people who'll run 244, since it's arguably more beneficial. We already know what the risks and benefits of both speed values are, so let's just move on to another discussion and agree on the fact that both will have their uses.

 

[haunter]

244 Speed Greninja (with HP Fire) is one point shy of Speed-tying Tornadus-T. Honestly, I'd rather keep 244 and just take out opposing Tornadus-T with a different 'mon. Not to mention that Tornadus-T was über last Gen, and I see no reason of it falling down to OU. 244 Speed EV's with 30 IV's outspeed everything in the current OU meta except max speed Greninja. And you all know how I feel about that.

Tornadus-T was Uber in Gen V mainly because of how easy it was to spam a 120 base power stab move in the most dominant weather condition. With permanent rain and hurricane (which now has 110 base power) being significantly nerfed, there's little to no reason for Tornadus-T to stay Uber and I can grant you that it will start OU once Pokebank comes out. In all honesty I see no reason to not run 252 Spe EVs on Greninja, it's not like 8 EVs make any difference if you invest them into another stat.

 

[VCrowe]

Tornadus-T was Uber in Gen V mainly because of how easy it was to spam a 120 base power stab move in the most dominant weather condition. With permanent rain and hurricane (which now has 110 base power) being significantly nerfed, there's little to no reason for Tornadus-T to stay Uber and I can grant you that it will start OU once Pokebank comes out. In all honesty I see no reason to not run 252 Spe EVs on Greninja, it's not like 8 EVs make any difference if you invest them into another stat.

I see your point, and while 8 EV's won't make a significant difference, 96 does. I believe it's at a point where everyone on this thread has one of two sets that they would prefer; 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd (Specially oriented) and 96 Atk / 168 SAtk / 244 Spd ( Mixed oriented). Greninja is versatile enough to make use of both sets, so again it comes down to preference. We all know the merits of the first, and damage calcs have been done to show the benefits of the latter.

Edit: Did some calcs, and both 168 SAtk Greninja as well as max SAtk Greninja have a guaranteed OHKO on Tornadus-T with Ice Beam, so 168 still stands the arguably better option, while speed is still based on preference.

Damage Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-T: 354-421 (118.39 - 140.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-T: 330-393 (110.36 - 131.43%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[JustLetMePlay]

I see your point, and while 8 EV's won't make a significant difference, 96 does. I believe it's at a point where everyone on this thread has one of two sets that they would prefer; 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd (Specially oriented) and 96 Atk / 168 SAtk / 244 Spd ( Mixed oriented). Greninja is versatile enough to make use of both sets, so again it comes down to preference. We all know the merits of the first, and damage calcs have been done to show the benefits of the latter.

I really don't want to bring up the old debate, but why isn't 88 Atk / 168 SAtk / 252 Spd not the better option if you yourself have acknowledged that 8 EVs in Attack make no significant difference?

 

[VCrowe]

I really don't want to bring up the old debate, but why isn't 88 Atk / 168 SAtk / 252 Spd not the better option if you yourself have acknowledged that 8 EVs in Attack make no significant difference?

I must of overlooked that point in the debate.

88 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Espeon: 307-367 (91.91 - 109.88%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO

88 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 411-489 (101.73 - 121.03%) -- guaranteed OHKO

88 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 385-455 (152.77 - 180.55%) -- guaranteed OHKO

88 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 192 HP / 64 Def Reuniclus: 242-289 (59.16 - 70.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It seems 88 Atk still grabs all the OHKO's and 2HKO's that 96 does, which opens up the option to move those EV's into Speed or SAtk. If Tornadus-T does indeed drop down to OU, then moving them into speed is the best choice.

Relevant.

I LOLed so hard at that...

 

[SJCrew]

This is Bulky SD Scizor with barely any investment:
40+ Atk Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 66-78 (23.15 - 27.36%) -- possible 4HKO

Bulky SD Scizor is completely irrelevant unless we're talking about the Mega. Most Scizor even now are Choice Banded and none of them can switch in. Just looking at the early sim statistics show that 44% of Scizor are already running the standard HP/Attack spread. I'd venture there won't be a radical change next week or even next month. Regardless, bulky SD is definitely not common enough a switch-in or set to justify a change to your moveset. I can't even think of a reason for Scizor to go bulky SD in this meta without Scizorite.

And god forbid he is a more offensive Scizor. Also, this isn't even mentioning the revenge kill potential, a more offensive Scizor can take you down for free if you use Ice Beam prior to the switch in, and generally 2HKO you in all other cases. Your only true hope against a Scizor is to use HP Fire, or switch out without using U-Turn.

This is what I mean by 'rarely'. Scizor catching an Ice Beam on the switch is a rare scenario, and after the first time it does it, it is vulnerable to Hydro Pump.

252 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 259-305 (75.51 - 88.92%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

^ Even one good switch-in on Hydro Pump is enough to kill it. If Scizor is doing something other than switching in, then I don't care; HP Fire doesn't stop Bullet Punch from going first when Greninja has already shifted to a type Scizor can prey on.

Your point about Greninja not being able to 2HKO Aegislash is irrelevant, because even an unboosted and uninvested Sacred Sword will kill OHKO you in return if you use Dark Pulse. I'm too lazy to do the calc, but if a 90 BP move can't even 2HKO (As you say), then there is no way that a 120 BP move will OHKO, considering that both are super effective. So if you use Dark Pulse, you die instantly to Aegislash.

No facts, no argument. 'Too lazy to calc' doesn't tell me how much damage Dark Pulse does to Aegislash. If you want to dispute my information, please counter it with some of your own.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 190-226 (47.02 - 55.94%) -- 18.75% chance to 2HKO

That calc was fishy to even look at. Did you even bother double checking? All I did was change Zoroark's Sp. Attack to 103 and made Jirachi Normal/Psychic.

252 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 213-252 (52.72 - 62.37%) -- 98.44% chance to 2HKO

With SR or any other prior damage, it's guaranteed. You can't switch Jirachi in.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Rotom-W: 91-109 (30.03 - 35.97%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 52-62 (17.16 - 20.46%) -- possible 7HKO

Again, these calcs don't even look right. I can tell right away that you have the wrong attack value for Greninja and didn't factor in the STAB on U-turn. Here is the same Zoroark with 95 base Att, 103 Sp Att, and a Dark/Bug typing with a Naive nature:

252 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Rotom-W: 101-121 (33.33 - 39.93%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
U-turn: 29.7 - 35.31%

According to my calculations, you're doing at least 60% every turn without factoring Leftovers and Stealth Rock (meaning Greninja does more).

Another thing we can gather from my calcs is that none of your information is credible. Go play some games and come back with useful discourse.

I wasn't arguing that Dark Pulse isn't a great move, I was just pointing out that citing "low base power" as a reason not to run Hidden Power is complete nonsense since it has just as much power as a Flamethrower or Tbolt on anything not named Greninja. Fire is obviously the big one to KO Ferro, Scizor, and don't forget:

Comparatively weak moves, I should say. Since Greninja gets STAB on everything, Dark Pulse and company are pushing 120+ effective BP while you're stuck with the mere 90 HP gives you. It doesn't help that he can't even do much with those HP options to aid his already decent movepool.