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GSC In-Game Tiers

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by NixHex, May 29, 2012.

  1. NixHex

    NixHex No excuses
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    (OP taken over for TrollFreak)

    I was going to make a good OP, but I got lazy as always

    Hello guys, to a community project for OI! As some people know, I've decided to take on a full In-Game Tier List for Pokemon Gold, Sliver, and Crystal. Well, I decided that since we have such a great community here at smogon, I'll just make this a community project. The rule is simple, pick a few Pokemon available in the GSC games, decide what tier it belongs in. Of course, you'll need to refer to the list of users who I've trusted of expertly choosing what tier a Pokemon belongs in. Please refer to this list when deciding what tier a Pokemon belongs in



    Pokemon GSC In-Game Tier List

    Top Tier:

    [​IMG]

    Cydaquil

    Availability: Starter
    Stats: Above Average
    Movepool: Above Average
    Additional Comments: Fire STAB is one of the best in-game, with only Rock, Water and Fire resisting it, none of which feature prominently on opposing teams. It also obtains super effective coverage on three gym leaders pre-e4. Defensively it resists Grass, Steel, Fire, Ice and Bug, the latter two being important for gyms.

    [​IMG]

    Abra
    Availability: Early
    Stats: Above Average
    Movepool: Above Average
    Additional Comments: Useless against Whitney, the first leader you can fight after catching it, but excels later. Cleans out Morty's Gym by itself, same with Chuck's Gym, slaughters Jasmine with Fire Punch, fares well vs Pryce and Clair, and does well vs Elite Four. Also cleans out every Team Rocket member by itself except for the final one at Radio Tower.

    [​IMG]

    Red Gyarados
    Availability: Required event
    Stats: Above Average
    Movepool: Above Average
    Additional Comments: The Red Gyarados rolls around at about the same level or higher than the rest of your team. It dominates everything in its path with Thrash (which even conserves PP thanks to being a multi hit attack!) and makes a decent Surf user if you lack one already. If worse comes to worse, it's an excellent HM slave.

    Lapras
    Suicune (Crystal)


    High Tier:


    [​IMG]

    Gastly
    Availability: Early
    Stats: Above Average
    Movepool: Above Average
    Additional Comments: Very High; Good Speed and powerful Special Attack, low defenses. Literally the only reasons it's in High and not Top is that it requires trading and evolves late (Level 25 is late in GSC).

    Machop
    [​IMG]
    Availability: Early
    Stats: High
    Movepool: Average
    Additional Comments: Useful immediately to power through Whitney's team, and matches up fairly well with other gym leaders and the Elite 4.

    [​IMG]

    Mareep
    (Gold and Silver only)
    Availability: Early
    Stats: Above Average
    Movepool: Above Average
    Additional Comments: Great special attack and rather good defenses with all things considered, but is lacking speed. It is also weak to what is probably the least common attacking type in the game, Ground.

    [​IMG]

    Geodude

    Availability: Early
    Stats: Average
    Movepool: Average
    Additional Comments: Geodude absolutely dominates the first three gyms and fairs fairly well against Morty if you bring a Mint Berry or two along. Rock Throw is amazing against titans like Falkner's Pidgeotto and Bugsy's Scyther and it can go toe to toe with Whitney's Miltank of all things! Even after the first half of the gyms, it does great in the Team Rocket Portions of the game and walls Rattata and Zubat all day.

    Teddiursa (Crystal)
    Magmar


    Mid Tier:

    [​IMG]

    Chikorita
    Availability: Starter
    Stats: Above Average
    Movepool: Shallow
    Additional Comments: Struggles a ton against many gyms, including Falkner, Bugsy, and Morty. Also fares poorly against Team Rocket members. Still, good enough to beat most normal trainers, and is useful against Pryce's gym (despite being a Grass-type).

    [​IMG]

    Bellsprout
    Availability: Early
    Stats: Average
    Movepool: Shallow
    Additional Comments: Bellsprout can be caught right around the first gym and, although it's useless in that particular battle, it does very well in Union Cave. Vine Whip is not to be underestimated when it's striking Onix and Geodude for Quad super effective damage. As time goes by, Bellsprout stays useful by learning Sleep Powder(!) and later on Sludge Bomb and Razor Leaf. Using Vine Whip for so long gets annoying, but it gets the job done when it's needed. Sadly, it will take ages for it to reach its full potential as a Victreebel in Gold and Silver, but it can get off the round pretty early if you're playing Crystal.

    Sentret
    [​IMG]
    Availability: Early
    Stats: Below Average
    Movepool: Wide
    Additional Comments: Has bad offensive stats but respectable Speed. Makes an excellent HM slave, learning Surf, Cut, and Strength.

    Caterpie


    Low Tier:


    Jigglypuff
    Suicune (GS)
    Teddiursa (GS)
    Pidgey

    Pidgey
    [​IMG]
    Availability: Early
    Stats: Below Average
    Movepool: Shallow
    Additional Comments: Has weak stats all around and doesn't fully evolve until level 36, very late into the game and past the point of usefulness. It does learn Fly, however, and is available rather early.

    Bottom Tier:

    [​IMG]

    Murkrow

    Availability: Late
    Stats: Low
    Movepool: Shallow
    Additional Comments: It is extremely unavailable, has a poor stat distribution, a terrible movepool, as well as being weak and those defenses aren't helping much. However, it has a niche over Sabrina and Red, but its too late to warrant use.

    [​IMG]

    Misdreavus

    Availability: Late
    Stats: Low
    Movepool: Shallow
    Additional Comments: Very rare, only found in Mt.Silver at night. It learns two attacking moves via level up, and only 8 total. It can't really put good TMs to use either besides Psychic.

    [​IMG]
    Ledyba (Sliver and Crystal Only)
    Availability: Early
    Stats: Low
    Movepool: Shallow
    Additional Comments: Weak to Ice, Electric, Fire, Rock and Flying. Not exactly good news. It isn't worth commenting on its STABS because it has no STAB moves (not even Fury Cutter).

    [​IMG]

    Ditto
    Availability: Early
    Stats: Low
    Movepool: Transform
    Additional Comments: Ditto is so terrible it needs no explanation. It's better left waiting until it becomes a Wifi mod.

    [​IMG]

    Smeargle
    Availability: Early
    Stats: Low
    Movepool: ADD
    Additional Comments: Smeargle can learn any move it wants, but it's extremely painful to do so once every ten levels with no move tutor and no double battles to copy partner attacks. Did I mention it's hard to get too?

    Larvitar
    Spinarak
    Pineco


    Refer List:

    TrollFreak
    TalkingLion

    TheMantyke
    Texas Cloverleaf
    DTC

    Happy Posting!

    http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Entei_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29/Generation_II_learnset

    Doesn't look like Entei gets Bite. I'd say definitely low or even bottom tier though, It's way too unavailable for mid. It's basically pure luck.
  2. billymills

    billymills
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    Murkrow for bottom:

    It is extremely unavailable.
    It has a poor stat distribution.
    It has a terrible movepool.
    It's weak and has low defences.
    Psychic immunity could be good for Sabrina and Ash.
    Matchups as above.
  3. NixHex

    NixHex No excuses
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    High: Gastly

    -Availability: Very Early, In Sprout Tower, later in Tin Tower. Literally the only reasons it's in High and not Top is that it requires trading and evolves late (Level 25 is late in GSC).
    -Stats: Very High; Good Speed and powerful Special Attack, low defenses.
    -Moves: Gets the elemental punches, available for purchase in Goldenrod City. Learns Thunderbolt from tutor after Elite 4 (Crystal only). Only disadvantage is its frailty.
    -Power: It Speed, movepool, and Special Attack allow it to steamroll over most trainers and can be used as a pivot if you need to train teammates.
    -Type: No worthwhile STAB (only physical Shadow Ball), but Ghost grants it immunities to any exploders, Chuck's Primeape, and all of those rats that Team Rocket uses. Poison typing means it will never be poisoned (that's one less status to worry about), and resists every Pokemon Team Rocket uses besides Houndoom.
    -Match-ups: Look at the above bullet list.
    Here are a list of Johto people that it destroys:

    • Whitney: can beat Miltank with Curse.
    • Chuck: completely immune to Primeape, can put Poliwrath to Sleep with Hypnosis (or just Thunderpunch since Surf won't KO).
    • Jasmine: Fire Punch beats her whole team (2HKOes Steelix, who only attacks you with Iron Tail or Rock Throw anyway).
    • Pryce: Thunderpunch beats Seel and Dewgong (2HKO), Fire Punch beats Piloswine.
    • Clair: Ice Punch beats her 3 Dragonair. Can put Kingdra to sleep and whittle away at it with Thunder/Ice Punch.
    • Elite 4: DGAF about Bruno but not as useful against the other 3
    • Lance: Beats Gyarados and 3 Dragonites single-handedly. Charizard and Aerodactyl are a bit more dangerous and should be handled by a Water-type (Slowbro, Poliwrath).
  4. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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    billymills your entry could be expanded a bit more

    nixhex what you've written is perfect
  5. Perfect Cell

    Perfect Cell

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    Magikarp for top tier.

    -Availability:Can be found in any place of water with the old rod.
    -Stats:10 base attack and 80 base speed? Sweet jesus.
    -Moves:It's so good, it doesn't need to learn TMs.
    -Power: Dominates wild pokemon like no tomorrow.
    -Type: Only has two weaknesses and resists 4 types.
    -Match-ups: Even Whitney's Milktank can't withstand it's horrific attacks.

    Nah, here's my real suggestion.

    Misdreavus for bottom tier

    -Availability: Very rare, only found in Mt.Silver at night.
    -Stats: The stats distribution is balanced, but it's still poor.
    -Moves: It learns two attacking moves throughout it's entire life of leveling up, and only 8 total from leveling up. It can't really put good TMs to use either besides maybe Psychic.
    -Power:Not very strong at all.
    -Type: Shadow Ball isn't special(Who ever thought this should be shot, by the way) and it doesn't really learn any other decent ghost moves. It resists and is immune to a few things.
    -Match-ups:Maybe against Whitney, but that's about it.


    DISCLAIMER:Pokenoob here, things may not be entirely accurate.
  6. NidokingKing

    NidokingKing

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    [​IMG]

    Mareep for High Tier:

    Mareep is available early on, but is difficult to get on crystal due to needing to trade.
    -Great special attack and rather good defenses with all things considered, but is lacking speed. Anything it does outspeed it probably shouldn't be facing, bar the slower grass types and I believe Skarm.
    -Special punchs for bonus type coverage, lack of ice punch does hurt it though.
    -Can easily deal good amounts of damage and take a few neutral hits, but don't put it in against anything that can do supereffective damage.
    -Electric STAB is amazing with approx. half of the gym leaders having at least one pokemon weak to electric. Not many good resistances sadly (if any). It is also weak to what is probably the least common attacking type in-game, Ground.
    -Matchups are pretty much Falkner, Bugsy, Chuck, Pryce, Will, Lance, Blue, Red, Misty, Brock's fossils, and Janine.

    Will edit in full matchups later if necessary.
  7. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Submitting Cyndaquil for top tier

    -Availability: Start: Available from the start of the game, as your starter. No difficulty to obtain
    -Stats: High: Once evolved into Typhlosion, it sports excellent stats, with great Speed and Special bulk, good attack and respectable bulk.
    -Moves: By level up Cyndaquil is restricted to fire attacks and normal attacks for the most part, however it is capable of learning both Fire Punch and Thunderpunch. Once Earthquake is obtained a moveset of Flamethower/Earthquake/Thunderpunch/filler (Swift) can clear the game more or less of its own merit
    -Power: High, 109 base special attack makes it very easy for Typhlosion to consistently clear through enemies. With a great speed stat it will often clean teams without taking damage at all.
    -Type: Fire STAB is one of the best in-game, with only Rock, Water and Fire resisting it, none of which feature prominently on opposing teams. It also obtains super effective coverage on three gym leaders pre-e4. Defensively it resists Grass, Steel, Fire, Ice and Bug, the latter two being important for gyms.

    -Match-ups: Head-to-head
    Falkner: Early-game Ember means that Cyndaquil can usually win, must be wary of Mud-Slap
    Bugsy: Easy win, quick sweep
    Whitney: Takes out Clefairy with little difficulty but must flee from Miltank's Rollout and bulk
    Morty: Stands about even with most of his team, no particular advantage of disadvantage
    Chuck: Loses to Poliwrath
    Jasmine: Sweeps her easily
    Pryce: Will often sweep, if Typhlosion Thunderpunch takes care of Dewgong
    Clair: Worst match up for Typhlosion

    Will: Thunderpunch and Flamethrower beat the majority of his team
    Koga: Clean sweep
    Bruno: Will usually outpower his Pokemon, but will lose to Machamp
    Clair: Wins against Vileplume (Flamethrower), Houndoom (Earthquake) and Murkrow (Thunderpunch), neutral against Gengar and Umbreon
    Lance: Thunderpunch beats half his team

    Lt. Surge: Earthquake, clean win
    Sabrina: Even match
    Janine: clean win
    Erika: lol
    Misty: Thunderpunch can beat the less defensive mons, Misty wins
    Brock: The ones with good defense win, but Omastar and Kabutops lose
    Blaine: Earthquake, clean win
    Blue: Advantage on Pidgeot, gyarados, exeggutor, neutral vs Arcanine and Alakazam but can win more often vs arcanine, loses to rhydon
  8. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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    Damn it Tex, I wanted to do Cyndaquil D:

    I'll be doing Totodile and Chikorita so no one ninja me D:<

    Also, can posters please link an GSC Sprite of the Pokemon you're doing, makes it easier for me to add it to OP, thanks! http://www.smogon.com/gs/pokemon/

  9. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    You're overestimating Mareep's Speed and underestimating its bulk. Even as an Ampharos, most things will outspeed it. It underspeeds most fully evolved Pokemon and a lot of the things it doesn't underspeed it has no business fighting.

    Not even frail Pokemon will get 2HKO'd by most attacks in GSC. As long as you don't make Ampharos fight something like Rhydon, it will likely be able to tank a few hits. 90 / 75 / 90 bulk is good, after all.

    Mention that while the Electric-type doesn't resist much, it is only weak to one type: Ground; as such, Ampharos has a good, neutral match-up against most Pokemon.

    Mention that Mareep is pretty strong at the beginning, and then starts to become weaker as time goes on. It becomes fairly useless after a while, until it finally evolves into Ampharos and immediately gets ThunderPunch. Ampharos also gets Fire Punch which is nice. Mareep's really late evolution is annoying, especially when it only has Thunder Shock as a damaging move until it finally evolves, so that should be noted. It's a pretty good Thunder Wave user, though.

    Also, @Perfect Cell - it doesn't matter if Misdreavus has a good match-up against Whitney; you can't get Misdreavus before Whitney other than by trading.

    I'm not a GSC expert, and in the end, QC's decisions are more important than mine as they have more experience, but I hope my insight helped.

    Edit: Right, ThunderPunch TM is available really early in the game.
  10. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    [​IMG]

    I'll have a go at Ledyba. I remember trying it out when I was young and naive to its crappiness but ended up dumping it around the 4th gym. I can make changes if people disagree with anything though.

    Ledyba for BOTTOM tier.

    -Availability: Early, but only in the morning and only in Silver. Probably the only thing good about it.
    -Stats: Awful. High Special Defence is situationally helpful for it and Speed is decent but it can't deal very much damage.
    -Moves: Bad movepool. It doesn't even get any STAB moves! It only learns Normal offensive moves by level-up. It does learn Thunderpunch and Ice Punch which is ok because you can buy them but they aren't that powerful, especially later on. Giga Drain comes too late sadly (it's also one use I think, but it isn't particularly valuable).
    -Power: Practically non-existant. Has enough speed to outspeed most/all opponents but 35 attack and 55 special attack? Yay.
    -Type: Weak to Ice, Electric, Fire, Rock and Flying. Not exactly good news. Grass, Bug and Fighting resistances are always nice though. It isn't worth commenting on its STABS because it has no STAB moves (not even Fury Cutter).
    -Match-ups: Copied Texas Cloverleaf's format.

    Falkner: Dies to Gust. Bad match-up, period.
    Bugsy: Does ok due to Fury Cutter resistance, but Scyther will probably be doing more with Quick Attack than Ledyba/Ledian will be doing with... Tackle/Comet Punch. It beats Metapod and Kakuna but anything can do that.
    Whitney: Dies to Miltank's Rollout. Can probably beat Clefairy unless it gets unlucky with Metronome but again, that applies to pretty much anything.
    Morty: Lame. The Ghosts are all immune to Ledian's level-up moves! Might do ok if you teach it Dig but why would you when there are other things tha can use it better?
    Chuck: 4x Fighting resistance is helpful and can beat Primeape but Dynamicpunch will still cause confusion. Can maybe tank Poliwrath's Surf and hit back with Thunderpunch. Probably its best match-up in Johto, but still unimpressive.
    Jasmine: Killed by Thunderbolt and Iron Tail will take it out quickly. Could beat Magnemite with Dig but you don't teach Ledian Dig, that's stupid.
    Pryce: Killed by the Ice attacks. Thunderpunch won't be enough to beat Seel/Dewgong.
    Clair: 2 of her Dragonair have super-effective moves against Ledian and it isn't really going to beat Kingdra. Might beat the other Dragonair if it tries and misses Slam a lot.

    Will: Jynx beats you. It won't enjoy Egg Bomb and Body Slam. It might beat Xatu though, since none of them have Flying attacks.
    Koga: It can beat Ariados and maybe Forretress, but thats about it.
    Bruno: Hitmontop and Hitmonlee can't do much to it at least. It will probably lose to the other though.
    Clair: Houndoom eats it alive but it has a shot against the others with some luck on its side (Murkrow has no flying moves).
    Lance: Loses to his whole team! Well, not really, it has Thunderpunch and Ice Punch for Gyarados and Dragonite respectively. It can actually contribute here, but it won't be sweeping the whole team.

    Lt. Surge: Dies to the electric attacks...
    Sabrina: Would have been great here if it had any bug STABs but it doesn't. Can soak up a Psychic but can't do much back.
    Misty: Starmie and Lapras beat it easily sadly.
    Erika: Finally, a gym where Ledian wins on its own!
    Janine: Loses to Crobat, can beat Ariados, no real bias against everything else (but will probably lose due to its bad stats).
    Brock: Sweeps if you give it Giga Drain which isn't unreasonable because it isn't that valuable.
    Blaine: Nope
    Blue: Loses to Pidgeot, Rhydon and Arcanine. Can beat Exeggutor with Ice Punch. No real clear bias against the others but will lose most likely.
  11. Tyranitarphantom

    Tyranitarphantom

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    Submitting Chikorita for Mid Tier
    [​IMG]
    -Availability: Starter
    -Stats: Less-than-perfect, but still good
    -Moves: Decent, learns nothing but Grass and Normal moves by level up, and little else by TM
    -Power: Average, nothing special
    -Type: Grass-type is useful against the abundance of Water-types in the game
    -Match-ups: Struggles a ton against many gyms, including Falkner, Bugsy, and Morty. Also fares poorly against Team Rocket members. Still, good enough to beat most normal trainers, and is useful against Pryce's gym (despite being a Grass-type). Nothing too great in Pokemon League, being almost useless except for KOing a select few Pokemon. Also useful for Misty and Brock in Kanto, but it struggles against Blaine and Janine. Becomes a lot more useful with Earthquake, but there are better candidates for the TM.


    Also submitting Abra for Top Tier
    [​IMG]
    -Availability: Early. Hard to catch in the wild, but available for only 200 Coins (100 in Crystal) at the Game Corner
    -Stats: Excellent
    -Moves: Perfect movepool as soon as you get it with buy-able TMs
    -Power: Great, even if you can't trade it to evolve to Alakazam. If you can, you've got a god-tier powerhouse on your hands
    -Type: Useful, as there are not many Dark- or Steel-types in the game
    -Match-ups: Useless against Whitney, the first leader you can fight after catching it, but excels later. Cleans out Morty's Gym by itself, same with Chuck's Gym, slaughters Jasmine with Fire Punch, fares well vs Pryce and Clair, and does well vs Elite Four. Also cleans out every Team Rocket member by itself except for the final one at Radio Tower. With it's immense coverage, Kanto is no challenge.

    Abra is so good, it deserves Top Tier if you can only get it to Kadabra, and more so if you can evolve it to Alakazam
  12. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Ledian is definitely bottom tier. The extent of its attacking movepool is Normal-type moves, and it only has 20 base Attack. Bug-Flying is also an awful typing against pretty much everything. The fact that you can get it early and it evolves early is the only thing that makes it somewhat worth it. Even then, as a Ledian, it won't be doing much damage. It has access to quite a few nice TM's, but you can be using them so many better Pokemon. 35 / 55 offenses is just not cutting it. It's not around Goldenrod where it gets ThunderPunch and Fire Punch and just evolves, but a little bit after that, it's pretty bad, just like it was before.

    @TyranitarPhantom, the bad match-up's Chikorita has really kills it. Being useless against most Pokemon on Team Rocket, as well as being mediocre against most Gym leaders and Elite Forum members make it a lot less useful than it could be. I think a more appropriate tier for Chikorita would be mid. It's useful, but has quite a few flaws.

    Also lol TrollFreak, you better finish Totodile quick.
  13. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    I'd disagree and say that Chikorita is Mid tier. It's commonly known that Chikorita is the worst start Pokemon yet. Although Meganium has very good stats, as you mentioned it lacks a notable movepool, has poor offensive typing and ca n't really do a whole lot in many major battles. The fact that it comes so early and is therefore easily trainable is a big point n favour and its certainly the most balanced starter but definitely not high tier in my opinion.
  14. TrollFreak

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    wtf is this D:<

    And yea, it isn't Mid Tier, me and TalkingLion already agreeed its Bottom/Low Tier
  15. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Oh shit sorry guys I didn't read the OP properly and assumed there were only going to be high, mid and low tiers. I meant to put Ledyba in the lowest tier which I thought was low. Anyway, yeah Ledyba should be bottom, not low. I'll change my post to reflect that.
  16. Tyranitarphantom

    Tyranitarphantom

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    I really think that the fact that it's a starter alone makes it at least mid-tier. Sure, it is the worst starter ever, but it's not THAT bad.

    Anyways, if you'd rather re-do it yourself, then of course go ahead. I just wanted to weigh in on it, and say that it definitely doesn't deserve Low tier
  17. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Mid-tier is appropriate for Chikorita. It has quite an impressive level-up movepool, which is always nice for any GSC Pokemon as most level-up movepool's are just plain awful. The typing, while very mediocre against most important battles (Chikorita does have a good match-up against many Kanto gym leaders, however, such as Brock, Misty, and Surge), is good for all the Water-types/hikers. Grass also offers a few good resistances - water, ground, and electric. Synthesis is also nice when you don't want to use Potions or you can't get to the Pokemon Center. Chikorita also has a very healthy balance of stats: decent Attack and Special Attack, very good bulk, and great Speed.
  18. Tyranitarphantom

    Tyranitarphantom

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    Considering I just finished replaying Crystal, I'm gonna reserve Poliwag and Tauros, the other Pokemon I used in addition to Chikorita and Abra.

    But this leaves me with a question. Will you take separate entries for Pokemon different between games? Examples including Poliwag and Growlithe being available much earlier in Crystal.

    Poliwag for High/Mid tier
    [​IMG]
    -Availability: Very Early in Crystal, Early in GS
    -Stats: Fast, fairly strong and bulky once evolved
    -Moves: Decent. Surf + Ice Punch is about all it needs
    -Power: Fairly strong, gets some powerful moves early. Requires a bit of grinding to get past the "Bubble stage", but still useful.
    -Type: Water-types are always useful
    -Match-ups: Doesn't excel against any boss in particular (except Brock and Blaine in Kanto), but doesn't really lose to anything.

    Tauros for Mid tier
    [​IMG]
    -Availability: Mid-game
    -Stats: Fast, with high Attack backed by decent bulk
    -Moves: limited to Normal moves and Iron Tail (and later, Earthquake)
    -Power: Quite strong, Strength/Headbutt can bust through most things that aren't Rock- or Steel-types. Once it finally gets Earthquake, good luck stopping it
    -Type: Fighting-types are not particularly common in-game, so it's good typing
    -Match-ups: can't touch Morty or Jasmine, loses to Chuck, and doesn't excel against anyone in particular. Not the most useful, but still not bad
  19. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Approvals and tiering of submissions so far, as determined by approval team

    Gastly: high
    Misdreavus: bottom
    Mareep: High
    Cyndaquil: top
    Ledyba: Bottom:
    Chikorita: mid
    Abra: Top
    Murkrow: Bottom

    These have been discussed by the team and agreed upon communally.
  20. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke DISRESPECT YOUR SUPERIORS
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    VGC Leader

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    I'd like to tier a few Pokemon I feel rather strongly about

    Red Gyarados: Top

    [​IMG]
    This really needs very little explanation. The Red Gyarados rolls around at about the same level or higher than the rest of your team. It dominates everything in its path with Thrash (which even conserves PP thanks to being a multi hit attack!) and makes a decent Surf user if you lack one already. If worse comes to worse, it's an excellent HM slave.

    Geodude and Bellsprout: High Tier

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Geodude absolutely dominates the first three gyms and fairs fairly well against Morty if you bring a Mint Berry or two along. Rock Throw is amazing against titans like Falkner's Pidgeotto and Bugsy's Scyther and it can go toe to toe with Whitney's Miltank of all things! Even after the first half of the gyms, it does great in the Team Rocket Portions of the game and walls Rattata and Zubat all day.

    Bellsprout can be caught right around the first gym and, although it's useless in that particular battle, it does very well in Union Cave. Vine Whip is not to be underestimated when it's striking Onix and Geodude for Quad super effective damage. As time goes by, Bellsprout stays useful by learning Sleep Powder(!) and later on Sludge Bomb and Razor Leaf. Using Vine Whip for so long gets annoying, but it gets the job done when it's needed. Sadly, it will take ages for it to reach its full potential as a Victreebel in Gold and Silver, but it can get off the round pretty early if you're playing Crystal.


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Oh, and by the way, I think Smeargle and Ditto should be bottom tier for obvious reasons. Smeargle can learn any move it wants, but it's extremely painful to do so once every ten levels with no move tutor and no double battles to copy partner attacks. Did I mention it's hard to get too? Ditto is so terrible it needs no explanation. It's better left waiting until Gen 5's imposter release or being a Wifi mod.
  21. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    I would like to point out that Poliwag can be obtained fairly early in Gold/Silver as well. You can fish it up with the Old Rod on Route 30/31 (you can also get Tentacool and Goldeen early this way too; Goldeen in Dark Cave and Tentacool on Route 32). I don't think it is necessary to have separate entries for Poliwag at least.

    EDIT: Well I guess the whole Water Stone issue might be a reason to have separate entries for Poliwag maybe...

    But yeah I would also like to know how we deal with things like Teddiursa, who is absolutely amazing in Crystal (can be caught early in Dark Cave in the mornings, hits hard and will contribute against pretty much all the gyms, is a great candidate for TMs like the elemental punches and Headbutt, etc.) but is crappy in Gold/Silver. Do we have separate entries for things like this?
  22. Cradily

    Cradily

    Joined:
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    79
    Larvitar-Bottom Tier
    Availability- Poor, you don't get the chance to run into it until the you get all 18 badges. Also you do not get tyrannitar until level 55 which is around 10-15 levels higher than the elite four
    Stats-Unbelievable
    Movepool-Excellent, Great stab coverage and it learns earthquake on level up.
    Power- Base 134 attack power is no laughing matter, Neither is 100/110/100 defenses.
    Type- Pro, Rock is a great attacking type and packs good defenses as well. Dark is a brand new type to this generation and the users are very rare. Also immune to psychic attacks which dominated gen I and has 6 other resistances to boot.
    Cons: weak to water grass and ground attacks, which are more common than its other weaknesses fighting, steel and bug.
    Matchups- You don't get to face anyone else by this time except for Red. If trained he can hurt Pikachu/Espeon and Rockslide Charizard.

    Fact: Gyarados is a great HM slave
  23. TalkingLion

    TalkingLion

    Joined:
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    [​IMG]
    Machop: High/Mid

    -Availability: Pretty Early, can be traded for right before Whitney, which is really helpful.

    -Stats: High Attack, fairly bulky defenses, low Speed but isn't really needed that much thanks to its godly Attack stat to wreck through everything.
    -Moves:Its movepool is pretty limited to Fighting moves, but it doesn't need many other moves thanks to Seismic Toss and its high Attack
    -Power: As has been said, its high Attack can easily dominate opposing Pokemon.
    -Type: Only has one type, which makes it weak to Psychic and Flying, but resists Rock, Dark and Bug, which doesn't really outweigh the weaknesses as Bug and Dark aren't very common.
    -Match-ups:

    • Whitney: Easily disposes of Whitney and her beastly Miltank thanks to the type advantage and resisting Rollout.
    • Morty: Can't touch those Ghosts, pretty useless in this gym.
    • Chuck: Pretty even match-up, if it has evolved at this point then it should be able to do pretty well.
    • Jasmine: Completely wrecks her duo of Magnemites, and Steelix won't be that big of an issue if it is a Machoke, or even a Machamp at this point.
    • Pryce: Once again, a gym weak to Fighting. Machoke(At least I hope it would be a Machoke at this point) easily can dispose of these Icy Pokemon.
    • Claire: Machoke does pretty well at this gym, having no real advantages but Cross Chop can still hurt those Dragonair pretty well.
    • Will: Machoke should avoid Will at all costs.
    • Koga: Everything on Koga's team except for Forretress all resist Machoke's Fighting attacks, so teaching Machoke Earthquake for this battle would be wise if your team could afford it.
    • Bruno: Machoke can handle the Onix pretty well, iand t could win against the Fighting Types, but it would most likely be better to get something else to handle those.
    • Karen:Can beat Houndoom and Umbreon with ease, and might be able to stand its own against Murkrow, just be wary of Flying Attacks(I think it has Drill Peck). Vileplume and Gengar are things that Machoke should avoid.
    • Lance: Aerodactyl is the only thing on Lance's team of Flying types that Machoke can hit for neutral damage. Other than that Machoke could be used to switch in and take an attack while you heal yor other Pokemon.
  24. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    K, Added everything up too TheMantyke's post, TalkingLion, Cradily, and Tyranitarphantom's entries haven't been added but, but once we discuss it, it will be

    Also, great work so far, keep up the good work guys!
  25. Perfect Cell

    Perfect Cell

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
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    477
    Well shit, it's not good for much of anything then. I haven't played G/S/C in a while, so I forgot. Sorry about that.

    Also, I'd like to purpose Stantler for Mid tier or Low tier, at the very least.

    [​IMG]


    -Availability:You can find one in Route 36 at any time of the day, unless your playing Crystal.
    -Stats: It's pretty fast and hits pretty hard too. It's defenses are bad though.
    -Moves: It learns some powerful STAB moves early on (Stomp at level 23), It also has a wide movepool.
    -Power: It can put the hurt on, but it can't fight for long periods of time.
    -Type: It's immune to ghost and only weak to fighting pokemon, which are usually slower than it.
    -Match-ups: It won't do well against Brock and Jasmine, but otherwise can hold on it's own.

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