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GSC In-Game Tiers

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by NixHex, May 29, 2012.

  1. JSND

    JSND

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    Isnt Totodile Top Tier ?

    EDIT : Because OP reserved it i removed it. Might post later after OP posted it for some suggestion
  2. NixHex

    NixHex If I were gay for a day I'd go all the way ... with guys
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  3. Amarillo

    Amarillo Returned for now for X
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    [​IMG]

    Ekans: Low

    -Availability: Early, in Route 32 after Faulkner. Evolves at Lv. 22.
    -Stats: Low Stats across the board, with 85 Attack and 80 Speed being some of its better stats.
    -Movepool: Incredibly shallow Movepool. Its strongest STAB by level-up is Acid at unreasonably high level. Though there is no reason for you to be niggardly with the Sludge Bomb TM you get after beating Team Rocket, both Dig and Earthquake are highly contested TMs: chances are, you can probably find better users. Notable utilities include Headbutt and Strength, but they have wide enough distribution so that you do not have to rely on the weak Arbok. With this movepool, you may wonder why you are not just using a Normal-type.
    -Power: Hopeless without Sludge Bomb, and mediocre with it. A case of low attack compounded by moves of low Base Power and no STAB.
    -Type: Resists Poison-type moves. That certainly comes in handy vs. Team Rocket. Offensively, Poison is completely inferior to Normal-types for the most part.
    -Match-ups: Hopeless against Jasmine and Morty, while generally useless before Sludge Bomb due to its low power. Type advantage against Bugsy and Chuck, but Arbok can't even solo those two Gyms.

    also will take the nidorans + eggy or something
  4. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    [​IMG]

    Mantine for Mid tier (Gold and Crystal). Its lateness and poor level-up movepool are problems but it learns all of the water HMs, making it a neat HM slave, and it has enough power for in-game stuff, which is enough to put it above low.

    -Availability: Mid-late game. Found by surfing along the routes between Olivine City and Cianwood City. Somewhat rare (10%), but shouldn't take too long to find unless you are really unlucky. It comes at a level in the early 20s so will take a tiny bit of leveling up to match your team.
    -Stats: Solid overall. 140 Special Defence isn't that useful in game but 80 Special Attack is usable for working through average trainers/rocket grunts. Slightly frail physically but not "Alakazam" frail so it can take physical attacks as long as they aren't ridiculously strong.
    -Movepool: Level up movepool is bad. It only has 8 level up moves and they're all rather weak, making it very reliant on HM/TM usage. However, it learns all of the water HMs, making it a great HM slave. A set of Surf/Icy Wind/Waterfall/Whirlpool gives you a pokemon that can provide HM support that is also a decent battler.
    -Power: Not outstanding but good enough. You can teach it Surf as soon as you get it and a 95 STAB attack from 80 Special Attack hits most things hard. It can get through average trainers efficiently.
    -Type: STAB on water is cool but the Flying type is useless offensively (it only gets Wing Attack which is too weak). It does have a lot of nice resistances (water, fire, fighting, bug, steel, ground) but watch out for Electric attacks (these aren't that common really).
    -Match-ups: It actually walls Chuck but it can't do much back to Poliwrath other than hit it with a weak Take Down (Poliwrath will probably win with Dynamicpunch anyway). Beats Jasmine's Steelix but loses to her Magnemite. Beats Pryce's Piloswine (there are better choices for Dewgong and Seel). Icy Wind can allow it to beat Dragonair but one of them has Thunderbolt (it needs luck to beat Kingdra). Beats a few pokemon at the elite 4 with Surf + Icy Wind (Dragonite, Charizard, Murkrow, Onix, etc.). In Kanto, beats Blaine and some of Brock. It is strong enough to contribute in other fights but the above are its best ones.

    Redid one:

    [​IMG]

    Slugma for Bottom tier.

    -Availability: Very late. Found on Cycling Road in Kanto. Most of the game will be done by the time you reach it.
    -Stats: Magcargo's stats aren't actually that bad, with high defence and decent special attack and special defence. However, it is slow as hell, the low hp spoils things and the attack stat is disappointing given its mainly physical movepool. Fairly average overall.
    -Movepool: Its level-up movepool is actually cool but it just doesn't have the stats to use Rock Slide or Body Slam. STAB Flamethrower is nice I guess but it isn't really enough to bother with Slugma.
    -Power: 80 special attack is ok but it is just too slow. It won't blast through teams when it is slower than everything. It might outspeed stuff at a much lower level (this is Kanto after all) but that isn't exactly a unique niche for Magcargo.
    -Type: Good offensively though the Rock typing is wasted on 50 attack. It should go without saying that Rock/Fire is simply awful defensively.
    -Match-ups: It can beat Erika (though it doesn't even resist Grass) and deals with Janine's bugs. It can also do ok against Blaine (Rock Slide is weak but it does the job against Fire types at least). Loses to Brock, Misty and probably Sabrina and Lt. Surge (it's too slow for them); can beat some of Blue's pokemon.
  5. Diana

    Diana Fennekin the cutest
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    Considering this is a project that's still being worked on that just slipped down the list I figure bumping this should be fine. (I asked NixHex too and he's still going to do it for what it's worth)

    Anyway, submitting Spearow for Mid.

    Availability: Found very early on at Route 46 and is relatively common there.

    Stats: Has good Attack and Speed for ingame purposes. Its defenses aren't great but hopefully Spearow won't be taking many hits.

    Moves: Quite a shallow movepool, though Peck is quite nice early on to take on Sprout Tower and Bugsy. It has to deal with using Swift (found in Union Cave) and Peck for a while early-midgame barring getting Return on a Sunday in Goldenrod, but once it gets Fly after Chuck it can attack nicely. Drill Peck comes a bit late at level 37 but is amazing once received. Sadly, it lacks anything to hit Rock- and Steel-types, as Steel Wing comes well after the Elite Four in Kanto.

    Power: Strong enough to power through teams early, though it loses a bit of luster against the stronger teams later in the game. It's a good go-to even later on for Bug Catchers and Black Belts, however, so it's always somewhat useful.

    Type: Not really that great. Normal/Flying leaves it basically useless against Rock-types (and the rare Steel) and invites Ice- and Electric-types to take it out. It does have a good advantage over common Grass- and Bug-types, however, and once it gets Fly it works well on Fighting-types too.

    Match-ups: Somewhat of a mixed bag.

    Falkner: Basically neutral, though being immune to Mud-Slap is nice.
    Bugsy: Spearow runs through this with Peck.
    Whitney: It's okay against Clefairy, but using it against Miltank is just asking to be swept by Rollout.
    Morty: Being immune to Shadow Ball is awesome, though having to rely on Peck (or maybe Pursuit if Fearow is to level 25) isn't. Still, with some Awakenings it's not a bad choice.
    Chuck: Too bad you don't have Fly here. Not really spectacular despite being a Flying-type, but it can at least contribute.
    Jasmine: Don't even bother here.
    Pryce: Not as bad as against Jasmine but Fearow still loses to Icy Wind.
    Clair: Hates being paralyzed against Dragonair, and two of the three have a move to easily take Fearow down. Facing Kingdra is risky but neutral attacks is all most teams can do to it anyway so it's not a bad choice for that.
    Will: Keep it away from Jynx and Slowbro. Does great against Exeggutor, and okay against Xatu.
    Koga: Tears apart Venomoth and Ariados. Mostly neutral against the rest but it can do fine.
    Bruno: Onix completely walls it, but Drill Peck is super effective on everything else. Just watch out for Machamp's Rock Slide.
    Karen: Definitely good against Vileplume and should be able to tear through Murkrow's weak defenses just fine. Neutral against the rest.
    Lance: Aerodactyl destroys it, while the two lower-level Dragonite can hit it super effectively. It's not really great against the others either.
    Lt. Surge: Just don't.
    Sabrina: Fearow should outspeed Mr. Mime and can take it out quite quickly. The other two depend on Fearow's level. Basically, if it outspeeds Espeon and Alakazam it has the upper hand, otherwise it's at a serious disadvantage.
    Misty: Not really great here, though it's okay for Quagsire at least.
    Erika: Fearow tears through this team with Drill Peck.
    Janine: Ariados and Venomoth don't stand a chance, and Fearow's almost certainly going to beat Crobat due to the level difference here. Weezing is a bit dangerous, however.
    Brock: Even with Steel Wing this isn't worth trying.
    Blaine: Magcargo destroys it, everything else is just average.
    Blue: Good for Exeggutor and can probably take on Pidgeot too. Arcanine and Gyarados are an even matchup, while Rhydon walls it. Alakazam is the same as with Sabrina: It depends on Fearow's Speed at the time.
    Red: Doesn't really like Pikachu or Blastoise but takes out Venusaur. Otherwise average, though it can at least deal solid damage to Snorlax and force it to Rest.


    I think I may have overdone this a little but I got on a roll here... I'll have more soon.
  6. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    I don't think Chikorita really struggles against Morty as the front page suggests. His Pokemon have bad movesets, and the ghosts are very fragile - even resisted attacks hurt.
  7. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    Between Mean Look + Curse, Hypnosis and Night Shade, I think Chikorita does indeed struggle somewhat. Consider that Haunter and co. are all immune to poison and outrun Bayleef while netting 3-5HKOs with Night Shade. While Haunter and co. are frail, Bayleef is still hitting the stronger defensive stat (unless you're using mud fucking slap) with a no-longer-100%-critical-Razor Leaf, at best. Unless you're interested in depleting Synthesis's PP and spamming Potions, Bayleef should honestly just leave Morty alone.
  8. Diana

    Diana Fennekin the cutest
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    I have to agree that Chikorita is pretty useless against Morty... Resisted Razor Leafs can only get you so far. Don't forget that Curse is everywhere and some of these teams have quite a few Pokemon. Not much time to wait around in this gym.


    Anyway, new entry from something I used a while back, getting this done before I do a Crystal run to test things. Going to submit Paras for Bottom.

    Availability: Easily found in Ilex Forest. It can technically be obtained before Bugsy, but it's really terrible there so waiting until after is fine too.

    Stats: Attack is pretty solid, but its other stats aren't great. Its Speed is completely horrible.

    Moves: Ugh. Outside of Spore this gets pretty much nothing. You'll be using Scratch and Leech Life for a while, and Dig is a decent move you get in the National Park. Spore comes at level 28 and Slash at 37 which is nice, but Giga Drain has to wait until 55... There aren't any good Bug-type moves for this thing to learn either.

    Power: It's a bit odd here, as its Attack isn't that bad so it can take on physically frail Pokemon all right in some portions of the game. Its biggest problem is movepool and the fact that it's as slow as Snorlax, meaning it's going to take a hit against most things. And since it's Parasect, it's not going to take them well.

    Type: Absolutely miserable when it comes down to it. On the plus side, it resists Grass, Water, Electric, Ground, and Fighting, which is a nice array of types. That's all the good news there is, as it's 4x weak to Fire and Flying and can't take all the Poison moves from Team Rocket either. Hikers scare this thing too. Add to that the nearly total lack of STAB moves and it's a horrible typing.

    Matchups: These aren't good. Seriously.

    Bugsy: If you have Paras by now leave it on the bench. It might get Metapod by using PoisonPowder but almost anything can take that down...
    Whitney: It's basically Rollout bait, don't try.
    Morty: Surprisingly all right. It's not going to sweep or anything but with Awakenings (which you should stock up on here anyway) that Hypnosis is eventually going to miss, and Dig is super effective on everything in the gym.
    Chuck: It resists Fighting so it can work but it's not like it can deal much damage back either.
    Jasmine: Absolutely destroys Magnemite with Dig, but probably isn't outdamaging Steelix despite the type advantage.
    Pryce: You don't even want to have to take a Seel Icy Wind. Stay away.
    Clair: They'll still probably outdamage Parasect here but at least it stops Kingdra from spamming Hydro Pump...
    Will: Loses to Xatu and Jynx, pretty neutral vs Slowbro. Hilariously enough, if Leech Life is still around that can work to beat Exeggutor.
    Koga: Not a chance.
    Bruno: Doesn't even like Hitmonchan Fire Punches let alone Rock Slides from Machamp... It's decent to take on Hitmontop with though.
    Karen: Too bad it doesn't get a better Bug-type move, it would actually be nice to face Umbreon with now. It still can probably beat Umbreon, though it takes a while, but nothing else here is worth fighting.
    Lance: No, Parasect is basically worthless here.
    Lt. Surge: Parasect's one real chance to shine, as it resists Electric and has Dig. Could actually sweep here, amazingly enough.
    Sabrina: Even more amazing: Sabrina beats Parasect despite the type advantage... Parasect is too slow to do much good.
    Misty: Well, resisting Water is nice but unless Parasect knows Giga Drain it's still not too great.
    Erika: It's okay against things lacking a Poison move but that's about it.
    Janine: Nope.
    Brock: A very interesting matchup. Parasect hates Rock Slides but Brock's entire team is 4x weak to Giga Drain, meaning with some luck it might work out.
    Blaine: lol 4x Fire weakness. Hilariously, it might be able to get a Dig in on Magcargo before going down in flames.
    Blue: Takes on Exeggutor (if for some reason Leech Life is being used, it probably isn't though) and Rhydon with some luck. Leave it on the bench for anything else.
    Red: The only thing worth using it against here is Pikachu, with the Electric resistance and Dig. Everything else isn't worth trying, and Sporing Snorlax isn't even that effective since it has Snore...


    Okay also will note that I'm going to play through Crystal to test a few things. Planning on Totodile, Nidoran-M, Growlithe (which should definitely have a separate Crystal entry), Rattata, Corsola, and something else (maybe Drowzee)
  9. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    [​IMG]/ [​IMG]/ [​IMG]

    Abbreviated:

    High (with walking... a lot...) / Mid (following a more normal route)
    Availability: Don't bother with Slowpoke the first time you go to the well. Back track to get a fully evolved king/bro from the well after you get Strength.
    Stats: Very good stats.
    Movepool: Comes with Surf and Confusion and can use the cheap Ice Punch TM. Headbutt is also useful. Psychic comes really late in the game...
    Type: It's a little repetitive with Gyarados, but Slowbro/king have really good typing that gives it excellent match-ups throughout most of the game. It is extremely useful against all of the later half of Johto + Elite four.




    In detail:

    High (with walking... a lot...) / Mid (following a more normal route)
    Availability: Question-- how far are you willing to walk to get a poke? If you don't mind taking it slow... bro/king will really pay off.

    Slowpoke is available really early in 2nd Generation, in the slowpoke well which is in the same town as the 2nd Gym; but it's almost pointless to catch it at that point in the game. It comes at a paltry level of 6-8, with only Tackle and it won't get Confusion until level 20. Keep in mind that Slowpoke won't evolve into Slowbro either until level 37, and you'll be hard pressed to find any practical use for it since slowpoke isn't really useful at any of the early gyms (though it can take down some Ghastly/Haunter in Morty's Gym, since only Morty's boss Gengar has Shadow Ball). Anyway, don't bother getting one on your first visit to the well.

    The best way to make use of slowpoke is to go to Olivine and get Strength after beating Morty, and walk--yes WALK--all the way back to the slowpoke well. This is a long hike after all, but is a little sped up since you've beaten Sudowoodo by this point. With a bike and some repels, it won't be much of a hassle. Once you get back to the well, you should have Surf and Strength, which will allow you to reach the lower level of the well.

    From there, Surf around to pick your poison:

    [​IMG] 90% Encounter Rate / Level 15-24 + King's Rock + Trade = [​IMG]
    (King's Rock is also found on this 2nd Floor, so you can evolve immediately)

    [​IMG] 10% Encounter Rate / Level 20-25

    And then you will finally have your fully evolved bulky Psychic / Water, only slightly under-leveled, but already packing Confusion and Surf for STAB.

    Note: If you don't want to walk back to get them before Chuck, you'll have to wait until after him to get Fly to go back to the well. By that point though, you've just missed out on beating one of Slowbro/King's best gym match-ups, and you'll be even more underleveled and wouldn't have gotten to eat up all the experience you would have gained by beating the Black Belt's in Chuck's Gym... really, you want to get it before Chuck's Gym if possible.

    Stats: Slowking and Slowbro have very good stats, with their 95HP + 110/80 Def/Sp.Def, and are packing a lot of power with 100 Special. Low Speed is not really desirable in-game, but they're both so bulky and powerful that they can make do. Just bring some healing items, as you should because you have so much money.

    Movepool: They have Confusion and Surf for STAB right out-of-the box, and if you were planning to make the massively long treck back to get a Slow-Evo, you probably had the foresight to buy TM 33 in Golden Rod so that you have Ice Punch too! Headbutt is an option if you want a sorta-ok physical move. There are some other TMs that it can use, like Fire Blast / Blizzard / Shadow Ball / Dig, but you probably don't want to use those on bro. Keep in mind, Bro/King won't get Psychic (or any Psychic STAB outside Confusion) until level 54, or reaching Saffron City...

    Type: Water is always a great in-game typing, and Psychic is still very nice as Bug- and Dark- attacks are rare. Opponents with Shadow Ball are basically non-existent after you get Slowbro/king. You do somewhat overlap with the Red Gyarados in terms of weaknesses/resistances, but unlike Gyarados, you get Psychic STAB and can make good use of Surf and Ice attacks-- doubling up on Water-types never hurts in GSC (especially since there are 2 Water type HMs you need to move around the map-- Give Surf to Slowbro/king and throw waterfall somewhere on Gyarados).


    Match-ups:

    Chuck: Slowbro/King destroy this gym (especially bro), laughing at Fighting attacks with their massive bulk, blowing enemies away with Confusion, and laughing at anything and everything the gym leader can do (resisting all his attacks except Rage / Fury Swipes, lol)

    Jasmine: Obviously, don't send bro/king out against magnemites-- but you should have plenty of teammates that can handle them. Slowbro/king easily take down Steelix, and lol at Iron Tail (again, Slowbro being stronger here).

    Pryce: Dewgong's Rest can be annoying... but Slowbro / King shrug off every attack that he has throughout his team, and can look for Confusion hax with Confusion. Slowking is actually the better choice in this gym, taking on more aurora beams.

    Clair: Watch out because the 2nd Dragonair has Thunderbolt! They should be able to comfortably take on everything else with Ice Punch though. Kingdra can be a bit annoying. King's Special bulk makes it more useful against this gym.

    Will: Ice Punch destroys Xatu, Exegg has no Grass moves and falls to Ice Punch, Jynx's moves are all resisted and you can overwhelm her with Surf or Headbutt, and Slowbro... well, mirror match.

    Koga: King/bro can walk through everything he has with Surf and Confusion.

    Bruno: Uhh... look out for Thunderpunch...? Ah, who am I kidding, Bro/King destroy Bruno.

    Karen: Oh wow! a bad match-up! sorta... King/bro can still be useful here, destroying Gengar (watch out for Destiny Bond...) and being able to beat Murkrow (survive a hit and Ice Punch) or Houndoom (survive a hit and Surf)-- but obviously not both. Umbreon's annoyance and Faint Attack will be too much for King / Bro, and you have no business taking on Vileplume's Petal Dance.


    Lance: King is going to struggle a little here, but is still very useful. Slowbro only needs to watch out for the Dragonite with Thunderbolt, but otherwise, it will have no problems with anything on Lance's team, shrugging off physical hits and resisted Special ones while taking his team down with Ice Punch (dragons), Surf (Charizard, Aero), and Confusion (Gyarados).

    Lt. Surge: Ok... You've beaten the Elite Four, and you run into the first enemy that's actually a problem...

    Sabrina: You resist her, but she don't resist your Surf. This is a good one for Slowking.

    Misty: If you went to Saffron, you should have Psychic now, so you'll be able to take out everything except Starmie with ease. You resist all of Starmie's attacks, but it has Recover and Confuse Ray... you're probably best off using something else against Starmie to save yourself the annoyance.

    Erika: Ok... here's another one you don't want to deal with... Slowking can be useful with its bulk and Psychic though.

    Janine: Psychic DESTROYS her, just like Confusion did against Koga.

    Brock: Surf wipes through his whole team, and he can't touch you with anything-- especially if you brought bro. Kabutop's Giga Drain is simply not a threat.

    Blaine: Um yeah... Slowking/bro walk through this one too.

    Blue: Slowking / Bro should have no problems taking everything down, except the Sunny Day / Solar Beam Exeggcutor. Unless, you're packing Fire Blast and you predict the Sunny Day like a boss.

    Red: Erm... Pikachu and Venusaur... ew... The Snorlax also has Amnesia... You have the advantage against Espeon, Charizard and Blastoise though, especially if you have Slowking. Even against Venusaur, there's a fair chance it is going to Sunny Day, so just go for the Psychic (or Fire blast); Slowking can shrug off a Giga Drain and go on the offensive regardless.
  10. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Well I've used all 3 starters. I remember in my Chikorita run, he just kept going for Spite while I Razor Leaf him to death, and his Gengar missed Hypnosis. Maybe I just got lucky.

    I think gym wise, Chikorita's best match ups are: Whitney, Chuck, Pryce. Bugsy is probably her worst match up, Scyther just destroys her.

    Edit: Are these tiers only going up to Lance, or up to Red?
  11. JSND

    JSND

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    Well, if its good enough so...

    Totodile

    -Availability: Its a Starter pokemon, so its a toss up beetwen the starters
    -Stats: Good enough to attack from both side for most in game challenges, and respectable bulk being the so called Physical Defense version of Gyarados.
    -Moves: Staple moves in Surf, and pretty good(or maybe average) learnsets. Its early game learnset is pretty acceptable though. It can learn Cut, Strength, Surf, Waterfall, Whirlpool and Rock Smash, which is tons of HMs, and Ice Punch for Dragon Slaying. Strength and Surf generally comes pretty early and gives it good coverage. Bite might help early on....
    -Power: No problem against wild pokemon, and most trainers.
    -Type: Mono Water is a good typing, and Electric attacks are pretty rare bar Thunder. Grass attacks are relatively rare too
    -Match-ups:
    Rival 1 : Scratch spam + Level advantage
    Bellsprout Tower : Totodile can acquire a solid OHKO in this early game phase. Otherwise, Pidgey and Spearow can provide decent support
    Falkner : Not much of a problem even with STAB Water Gun and Bites
    Slowpoke Well : Most of the opponent are based around Cave annoyance, so its not a huge problem
    Bugsy : No typing, its stats is good enough to handle Bugsy team.
    Rival 2 : Bite + Water Gun for non Water resistor. If you has any problem for Bayleef, teach that Dinosaur how to dance in the Gust.
    Whitney : Headbutt spamming. If you are using a female Fera it would be easier. A rather troublesome gym, but is doable with optimal grinding
    Rival 3 : Surf spam. Ice Punch for Bayleef is still powerful enough to make it a non issue. Note that by now, you can actualy reach Fera.
    Morty : You can teach it Dig. Anyway, awakenings, and spam attacks.
    Chuck : Strength + Surf. Poliwrath can be troublesome.
    Jasmine : Surfin spam. Magnemite level is too low to be a problem
    Pryce : It resists Ice, which means it can handle Pryce's attacks. Spam Normal move of choice. Surf the swine.
    Rival 4 : Can still win against both Magnemite and Bayleef, but is nowhere as dominant as before.
    Clair : Ice Punch + Strength is a pretty solid choice that can 2HKO or OHKO. Beware of Kingdra though.
    Rival 5 : Simmilar to ussual case. Surf, and Ice Punch. You realistically cant solo him though.

    E4 :

    Will : It can use the combination of Surf and Strength to handle most of Will's team. Eggy can be defeated with Ice Punch and Slowbro usually waste their time while you Strength them away
    Koga : Just like Will, it generally has solid offense throughout Koga's team, but Crobat Double Team Tactics + Toxic is really troublesome.
    Bruno : Just like Will Fera can handle most of his team, although Machamp and Chan can be a slight problem
    Karen : Umbreon is irritating, and Vileplume Petal Dance is pretty dangerous.
    Lance : Gyarados is a bit of a problem, but assuming level 47-48, All Dragonite bar the level 50 is OHKO by Ice Punch. Aero outspeeds, but doesnt do much unless you are really weakened, although remember that Aero has Hyper Beam.

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