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GSC In-Game Tiers

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by NixHex, May 29, 2012.

  1. NixHex

    NixHex what is béisbol
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    Sentret
    Mid-tier
    [​IMG]
    -Availability: Right at the beginning, evolves at Level 15.
    -Stats: Base 90 Speed but very frail with only middling Attack.
    -Movepool: Its moveset should be Strength / Surf / Cut and your choice between Shadow Ball and Iron Tail. Both are gym leader prizes.
    -Power: low, but STAB Strength is nice and reliable. Return could even work but only if you're willing to clone TM 27.
    -Type: Immune to Ghosts and can hit them with Shadow Ball. Weak to fighting
    -Match-ups: Weak to Chuck, can barely scratch Jasmine, can't touch Morty at all since it gets Shadow Ball right after Morty.

    Pidgey
    [​IMG]
    Low Tier
    -Availability:
    Right at the beginning. However, fully evolves rather late in Johto (level 36)
    -Stats: Bad stats until Pidgeot, even then they're nothing to write home about.
    -Movepool: Pretty shallow, its only HM (and, incidentally, worthwhile STAB) is Fly.
    -Power: Weak Attack, even as Pidgeot
    -Type: Immune to Ghost but gets beaten by Morty anyway.
    -Match-ups: So weak it can't even beat Bugsy or Chuck, the two gyms whose types are weak to its STAB. Don't even think about using it at the Elite 4.
  2. Tyranitarphantom

    Tyranitarphantom

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    Sorry, but I completely disagree with that placement. Wooper's only problem is middling stats (which is the only reason he's not perfect). Early evolution, STAB Earthquake by level up, excelling in the area right after you catch it (Union Cave), and early access to several powerful moves (Ice Punch in Goldenrod, Surf in Ecruteak) help make up for poor special stats. Again, despite middling stats, almost no in-game trainers can stand up to it, unless they use Grass-types that aren't OHKOed by Ice Punch. Which also brings me to it's phenomenal typing, one of the best in the game.

    By the end of the game, you'll have access to more attractive options like Lapras, Red Gyarados, and in Crystal, Vaporeon and Suicune, and Quagsire can look bad compared to them. But Wooper starts out decent, gets a lot better fast, has better typing than any of the above, and most importantly, comes very early. If you picked up Wooper early, and used it, there's no reason to switch to any other Water-type. Wooper is a Pokemon that, despite some problems, is good from early stages, and never loses it's usefulness. My personal experience with Wooper makes it High-tier material in my eyes, but there's no way it's anything less than Mid-tier

    (Obviously it's not worth considering if you start with Totodile, but no other Water-type can hold a candle to Totodile)
  3. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    I don't know about Pidgey in bottom. I think low is more appropriate. It levels up quickly, Gust is good for the bugs and grass-types that are somewhat common early on (and the Sprout Tower but I think that's optional), it's speed (and Quick Attack) allows it to get through the 'average trainer' routes and Team Rocket grunts, at least it was when I used it (these guys will be underleveled), and it certainly isn't as bad as stuff like Ditto and Ledyba when it comes to beating the game efficiently.

    That's just nitpicking though. I honestly feel that low and bottom can be made into 1 tier and I don't see much use in separating pokemon in groups of 'bad' and 'really bad'.

    Anyway, Teddiursa. I did two separate ones because, like Suicune, its usefulness in Crystal and Gold is like night and day.

    [​IMG]

    Teddiursa for high tier (Crystal). It isn't top because of its thin level-up movepool early on as well as the fact it is a tad annoying to catch, but putting it on your team is well worth it.

    -Availability: Dark Cave, before the first gym (only in the morning though; it's somewhat rare and it likes to flee).
    -Stats: Great. 80 attack before it evolves; becomes 130 when it evolves - at level 30! Solid bulk lets it take some hits and special attack is good enough to make great use of the elemental punches. Low speed but will be moving first against most average trainers because it will probably be at a higher level.
    -Movepool: Level-up movepool is thin at the lower levels, though the high attack score gives Scratch a nice kick. Faint Attack will help against Morty. It's a great candidate for the easy to come by Headbutt TM, which will be OHKOing almost any average trainer's pokemon that doesn't resist it. The elemental punches will give it awesome coverage and it also learns Dig. It puts them to great use so don't worry about wasting them.
    -Power: As I said, kills everything and is strong enough to work well against pretty much any gym leader battle/elite 4 battle.
    -Type: One weakness. It is always a good match-up against pretty much everything. Stuff that resists normal can be covered by another move (elemental punch, etc).
    -Match-ups: Only Chuck is a bad match-up. Give it the right moves depending on what your team needs, or you can just heavily damage opponents with Headbutt/Strength/Return/Slash/Thrash...

    On the other hand...

    [​IMG]

    Teddiursa for low tier (Gold). It comes way too late and at too low a level, though if you are willing to put in the time to training it it will make the rest of the game a lot easier.

    -Availability: Around the 8th gym, and its level will be below that of your team. Takes time to train.
    -Stats: See crystal analysis above.
    -Movepool: See crystal analysis above.
    -Power: See crystal analysis above.
    -Type: See crystal analysis above.
    -Match-ups: See crystal analysis above, though it can't be used for as many gyms since you will have beaten them by the time you get there. It will help against Clair with Ice Punch though and it can hold its own against Kingdra. It also does well at the elite 4.
  4. Layell

    Layell Alas poor Yorick!
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    Sneasel
    Bottom Tier
    [​IMG]
    Availability: In Ice Path at Night for Crystal at level 20 range, and Route 28/Mt.Silver for G/S and level 40 range.
    Stats: A great base 115 Speed, and a good 95 attack, but all his STAB moves will be using a pitiful 35 sp.attack.
    Movepool: When you catch him he will have Screech and Quick Attack in all versions, his most consistently powerful move is Strength, and can learn Blizzard for some power against dragon types. He learns Slash at 49. Dig can be a useful TM for some coverage.
    Power: Sneasel has a good amount of power, and could be useful as a revenge killer, but movepool and STAB hinder it.
    Type: Awful dual special type results in no physical STAB moves. A 4x weakness to fighting, and weakness' to rock, bug and fire aren't helping. However he can abuse the psychic immunity.
    Match-ups: For Crystal he will need some grinding to go up against Clair. Sneasel also does not enjoy Victory road and the numerous wild rock types, limiting its chance of leveling. In the elite 4 Sneasel will be able to handle Will's team, but his Xatu require Blizzard and is rarely a safe move. He can't fight Bruno unless he is so over-leveled he can OHKO everyone, although Hitmonchan will Mach Punch him to death, Onix will require a lucky dig with no EQ, or a Blizzard that doesn't miss, and that isn't a situation you want. By the time you get to Lance you will need to restore Blizzard PP, Areodactyl will out-speed you unless you've heavily leveled and rock slide you to death. Charizard and Dragonite also have the potential to ruin you with Flamethrower and Fire Blast. In Gold and Silver by the time you get him at Mt.Silver your team will be well established, with no evolution there isn't any reason to train him since he can't evolve.
  5. dinosaurdan

    dinosaurdan

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    Theres a chance it can make Mid-Tier, but really unlikely. Ice Punch could OHKO some trainers, but with special attack at 65 and attack at 85, low chance of that. Lapras is also caught at an okay level after Morty, easily replacing Wooper.If you can catch it, Red Gyarados can be caught after Morty too. Also, how are it's stats decent anytime besides when it first evolves?? It's stats turn bad just before Jasmine. Seems pretty early to me.I never said it's typing was bad either, to me, thats the only thing thats saving Wooper's ass from bottom tier. Really Its bad stats hold it back, and if it's special attack was better, it would be mid tier. Also.. Ground/Water is'nt the best typing either, it's probably Bug/Steel... Sorry, but Wooper kinda sucks
  6. Cradily

    Cradily

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    maybe its just me but most of the pokemon we have made analyses for are in the low bottom tier. Only a few have cut it to the mid tier/ top tier. I think we should consider going for a larger mid tier.
  7. dinosaurdan

    dinosaurdan

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    Fine
    Pinsir for Mid-Tier
    [​IMG]
    Availability: A rarity in National Park, but it still comes somewhat early
    Stats: Great attack, defence, and usable speed
    Movepool:No STAB moves, but it gets Submission, Slash, and Swords Dance level up
    Power: Solos many trainers important or not
    Type: Bug typing leaves it with no good STAB moves and not very many resistances

    I seem to be doing a lot of Physicaly oriented Pokes...
  8. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    NixHex and I have done approvals for some. The others...were just depressing.

    Red gyarados: Top
    Geodude: High
    Bellsprout: Mid
    Ditto: Bottom
    Smeargle: Bottom
    Larvitar: Bottom
    Machop: Mid
    Jigglypuff: Low
    Caterpie: Mid
    Spinarak: Bottom
    Magmar: High
    Suicune (Crystal): Top
    Suicune (GS): Low
    Lapras: Top
    Pineco: Bottom
    Sentret: Mid
    Pidgey: Low
    Teddiursa (Crystal): High
    Teddiursa (GS): Low

    The above were written up adequately or better, and any future write-ups should strive to emulate the better of these.

    However...

    The following were either poorly done, or far too sparsely written. There needs to be far more effort going into these, akin to the ones above. The following write-ups will be redone, and at a higher quality.

    Stantler
    Sudowoodo
    Zubat
    Girafarig
    Slugma
    Chinchou
    Phanpy
    Heracross
    Aipom
    Miltank
    Togepi
    Scyther
    Scizor
    Wooper
    Sneasel
    Pinsir

    If you were the author of one or more of these poorly written segments, consider this your warning; if quality does not improve on your submissions you will be barred from posting further ones.

    To clarify, the ones needing to be rewritten are free game for anyone, although if you wish to improve upon and take it again feel free.

    edit: sneasel is fine
  9. Tyranitarphantom

    Tyranitarphantom

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    Yo Tex, looks like you passed a couple up.

    I'll get on fixing Heracross and Zubat in a few. Also, claiming Wooper for myself
  10. NixHex

    NixHex what is béisbol
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    I'll do Poliwag and DAMN you Tyranitarphantom for nabbing Zubat.
  11. Tyranitarphantom

    Tyranitarphantom

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    I just wanted those checked. If there's anything wrong with them, I'll fix them.

    Also you can have Zubat, if you'd like.
  12. Codraroll

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    Better get this over with...

    Unown for Bottom Tier
    [​IMG]
    - Availability: Really, really early. You get it right after beating the first gym.
    - Stats: Terrible, all around. It's outclassed by Furret in every stat bar Sp. Atk, and even Metapod is better defensively on the physical side.
    - Moves: Hidden Power, and that's it.
    - Power: Varies. It's Hidden Power, for Pete's sake.
    - Type: The Psychic type actually isn't half bad in G/S. With one exception, though. Guess which.
    - Match-ups: If its HP is electric or Grass, Unown fares well against Fisherman Justin on Route 32. Against the rest of the trainers in the game, you'd be better off using something else.
  13. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    RE: T-tarphantom

    You'r right, I miseed them, my bad x) However, i would like to see them raised up to the quality of the ones I approved, at the moment Poliwag and Tauros arent quite up to scratch.
  14. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Ok thanks for approving my contributions. I redid a couple:

    [​IMG]

    Togepi for bottom tier.

    - Availability: Early, after the 1st gym. However, you have to hatch an egg which takes time that you could be spending on a better pokemon.
    - Stats: Not as bad as you might think. Bulky and 80 special attack isn't that bad though it can't put it to much use. It's slow as hell though, to the point at which you may actually be slower against even average trainers.
    - Moves: Bad movepool. It's level up mvepool is horrific; The unreliable Metronome is its only option until it gets Double-Edge (lv 38). It somehow doesn't get the elemental punches and to use its special attack it has to use Fire Blast, Psychic, Solarbeam and Zap Cannon which is not good (one of those requires lots of coins and the other are available way too late).
    - Power: You'll likely be using physical STAB (Swift probably) and from 40 attack it won't be doing that much.
    - Type: Normal/Flying isn't bad offensively or defensively (not spectacular nor terrible) though it does mean that it has competition from other pokemon of the same type (and it loses). Things like Pidgey and Spearow (and even Hoothoot) outclass it because their higher attack stats suit the typing better.
    - Match-ups: As a Togepi it won't be doing well against anything. It's way too weak and you will be babying it until it evolves. As a Togetic, it isn't much better. In theory, if it knows one of its special attacks then it might contribute against gyms that for weak to it (e.g. Psychic for Janine) but that's too little too late. Basically, there are always better options against gym leaders/elite 4 than Togetic.

    [​IMG]

    Chinchou for mid tier, though I have almost convinced myself that is high tier during my actual analysis. I'll say mid tier to be conservative, it's your call.

    - Availability: Mid/late Johto, with the Good Rod. Comes at level 20 which is not that bad (shouldn't require too much leveling to match your team).
    - Stats: Below average bar HP, but they are good enough for in-game purposes. Evolving early helps it a lot.
    - Moves: Learns Surf and Spark which is all that is required really. The cool thing is that it learns all of the water type HMs so if you wanted it can serve as a dual HM slave/regular team member! It's a shame it doesn't learn Icy Wind; water/electric/ice coverage would have been incredible.
    - Power: 76 special attack isn't pitiful in GSC. STAB Surf will do plenty of damage to most things (and will probably OHKO many average trainer's pokemon)
    - Type: The best thing about it. Water/Electric make a great dual STAB combination with wide coverage. Grass and Ground are its only weaknesses which are easily covered by other teammates.
    - Match-ups: Spark will help against Chuck's Poliwrath, Surf wrecks Jasmine's Steelix and it makes a joke out of Pryce. Unhelpful against Clair, but will handle specific pokemon at the elite 4 (Xatu, Slowbro, Onix, Murkrow, Gyarados, etc). Helps against Misty, Brock and Blaine and will pull its weight in other gyms.

    Also, a new one:

    [​IMG]

    Jynx for mid tier.

    - Availability: Late and at a level lower than your team, requiring time to level. Actually I think you can get it sooner you are willing to detour at bit but that slows things down (correct me if I'm wrong). It comes at just the right time though since it's great for the last gym.
    - Stats: Excellent. High special attack and good speed serves it well. Physically frail but it will kill most things before they can do anything anyway.
    - Moves: Learns Ice Punch at level 25 which is powerful enough for Jynx. Learns Psychic from TM. It's a shame it has no Psychic moves by level up because it would have owned most of the elite 4 on its own.
    - Power: 115 special attack is enough to make short work of most average trainers. Jynx will definitely make the game go by faster.
    - Type: Great dual STABs. 6 weaknesses is annoying but they will not matter much when Jynx kills most things before they do anything anyway.
    - Match-ups: Ice Punch will be a huge help against Clair. Beats Xatu, Exeggutor, Crobat, Onix, Vileplume, Murkrow and Dragonite at the elite 4. In Kanto, Ice Punch + Psychic will allow you to beat Erika and Janine, as well as most of Brock. Its power allows it to contribute against most important battles.




    EDIT: Oh yeah just remembered that Smoochum is available before Goldenrod in Crystal which is kinda notable because Smoochum learns Confusion by level up. I don't think that separate tier placements for each game are needed though. Confusion is helpful for Morty and Chuck but it also means that:
    • you have to hope that you get the Smoochum egg
    • you have to spend time hatching the egg
    • you have to level it up from lv. 5 to match your team (which should be aroung lv. 18-22)
    This takes a lot of time so the difference between GS and crystal cancel each other out!

    I hope these are ok.
  15. NixHex

    NixHex what is béisbol
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    Ttar phantom it's okay! I'm more interested in Poliwag anyway, and Espeon.

    Poliwag- Mid Tier
    [​IMG]
    - Availability: Early, Route 16. Evolves at 25, then can evolve to Politoed or Poliwrath (the former is more powerful and King's Rock is easier to obtain, right after you get Surf and Strength). Unfortunately, the former requires trading and the ladder requires getting lucky and obtaining a Water Stone.
    - Stats: Great either way. Politoed is slower but is more specially bulky and has higher Special Attack.
    - Moves: Bubble / Water Gun (level 13) are all it gets offensively, but it gets Hypnosis at level 7 which is nice. Later on, it gets the holy triumvirate of HM moves - Surf, Waterfall, Whirlpool, as well as Ice Punch. In Crystal, it gets Ice Beam from the move tutor.
    - Power: as a Politoed, has a great base 90 Special Attack and excellent bulk. As Poliwrath, its offense and bulk are more physically oriented. Also gets Body Slam and Belly Drum if you're feeling lucky. Headbutt is great too.
    - Type: STAB Water is always great, and the added Fighting typing doesn't give Poliwrath too many relevant weaknesses.
    - Match-ups:
    Pryce - Nothing special here, unfortunately. Politoed can't do anything here.
    Clair - Politoed wins out here, hitting Clair's 3 Dragonair much harder than Poliwrath could dream of with Ice Punch.
    Elite 4 Karen - This sounds crazy, but Politoed can use Perish Song to get rid of Umbreon, but it must use Whirlpool to trap it since the AI WILL switch out Umbreon before the last count.
    Blain and Brock - Politoed easily takes these on with little effort, with Surf being super effective against both.
    Red - Just as with Karen, you can Perish trap Snorlax.

    Espeon - High Tier
    [​IMG]
    -Availability: Early-mid game, Evolves by happiness and Eevee can't really do anything useful.
    -Stats: Amazing Special Attack and Speed, but frail physically.
    -Moves: Only has Swift until you get STAB Psybeam at 36. Gets Psychic at level 47 but it is powerful enough with Psybeam to level up in Kanto.
    -Type: Pure Psychic is much better in-game than competitively, and getting STAB on Psybeam and Psychic is Espeon's biggest benefit. No weaknesses except for rare Dark-type attack and nigh non-existent Bug-type attacks.
    -Match-ups:
    Won't have Psybeam until after the Elite 4, so it isn't quite useful in Johto.
    Various Kanto trainers - will be about the same level or even higher, wrecks with Psybeam, and levels up easily to get Psychic more quickly.
    Erika - Psybeam / Psychic destroy her whole team.
    Janine - Same story as Erika, perhaps even easier.
  16. Amarillo

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    Vaporeon - High / Mid? (C) / Low (GS)
    [​IMG]
    -Availability: Early-mid game, Evolves with a stone so needs some luck there: 'Rare' encounter rate if you would consider it as getting the stone early enough. In GS, you stay Eevee until Kanto, and Eevee is totally useless. That leaves you with an underleveled Pokemon at late-game.
    -Stats: Amazing Special Attack, great bulk, a little on the slow side.
    -Moves: It gets Surf. What else would you ever need? Aurora Beam at Lv. 36 for complete coverage.
    -Type: Two weaknesses, bulky Water-type is the standard for a reason. Great offensively + defensively
    -Match-ups:
    Useful in caves.
    Type Advantage vs. Pryce, Jasmine, also wins vs. Lance and Clair if you have Aurora Beam.
    Brock - Surf destroys his whole team
    Blaine - Water beats Fire - especially in GSC where there are no coverage options for anything.

    Flareon - Mid (C) / Low (GS)
    [​IMG]
    -Availability: Early-mid game, Evolves with a stone so needs some luck there: 'Rare' encounter rate if you would consider it as getting the stone early enough. In GS, you stay Eevee until Kanto, and Eevee is totally useless. That leaves you with an underleveled Pokemon at late-game.
    -Stats: Amazing Attack, OK Special Attack. Middling bulk and low Speed holds it back, but it has generally excellent BST.
    -Moves: Uses Normal + Fire type coverage. You have access to Headbutt immediately, which hurts from 130 Attack. Sadly, you'll be using Ember until late game.
    -Type: Good offensive typing, until you realize it has little STAB options. Defensively, Fire is a shabby typing with common weaknesses.
    -Match-ups:
    Type Advantage vs. Pryce, Jasmine.
    Wins against Erika


    Jolteon - Mid / Low (C) / Low (GS)
    [​IMG]
    -Availability: Early-mid game, Evolves with a stone so needs some luck there: 'Rare' encounter rate if you would consider it as getting the stone early enough. In GS, you stay Eevee until Kanto, and Eevee is totally useless. That leaves you with an underleveled Pokemon at late-game.
    -Stats: Amazing Speed and Special attack, but it has little bulk. Its unusable Attack is also disappointing, considering most of its level-up and common TM moves are physical.
    -Moves: Very, very shallow viable movepool. The only move you will use is Thundershock until late game
    -Type: Good offensive typing, until you realize it has little STAB options. Defensively, Electric has little weaknesses, but also little resistances to speak of.
    Type Advantage vs. Will, Misty, and that's kind of about it.
  17. Cradily

    Cradily

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    I wholeheartedly agree with your espeon analysis. A few questions though. Will starts the E4 with pokemon levels in the low 40's. Since espeon learns psybeam at 36 shouldn't it have psybeam before the E4? This is assuming you have your pokemon in the 40's as well. I have gotten my eevee to evolve with happiness before 36 so its possible.

    Also, Eevee learns bite at 30 which is an excellent special move and its not to difficult to shoot for in terms of when eevee evolves. I think it deserves a mention for taking out fellow psychic types.


    EDIT: I think we forgot one
    [​IMG]
    Ho-Oh (Gold) Top tier
    Availability:
    Late game- right after clearing Team Rocket from the radio tower. I believe that this is right after beating pryce. However it can be captured at level 40 which is a great level for challenging the Elite four.
    Typing: Ho-Oh packs the outstanding fire type which allows it to plow through many gym leaders and the abundant grass/bug types in game. It can also destroy the random steel types that find their way on to many teams.
    Power: Insane. Right off the bat Ho-Oh packs Sacred fire which is less powerful but more accurate version of Fire Blast. This move also comes with a 50% burn rate. Ho-Oh also knows recover when caught so he can sustain himself longer in battle. Finally, Ho-Oh uses sunny day which removes its water type weakness and increases its fire type moves by another 50% in raw power.
    Stats: Outstanding. Ho-Oh has great attack at 130, 110 special attack and a whopping 154 special defense. It also sits at 90 base speed which is not slow by any means.
    Moves: As mentioned before. Ho-Oh already owns with Sunny Day, Sacred Fire and Recover. By level up it also learns, gust and ancient power to abuse its massive attack stat. It also learns future sight at a very late level which won't be that useful in game though. Ho-Oh nearly learns every single power TM in generation II, from giga drain, to shadowball, to Thunder, and even Earthquake. This pokemon can cover all of its bases and handle anything coming its way.
    Matchups: Assuming you get Ho-Oh as soon as possible you can use it to fight Claire, the battle will be rough because nearly all of her pokemon pack thunderbolt or surf. Defeating her does yield the TM for dragonbreath which can be taught to Ho-OH. Ho-oh can carry his own in the eite four. He can hurt Will's pokemon not weak to fire and completely destroy Koga with sacred fire. He can use his flying moves on Bruno's fighting types but should stay away from onyx. Karen has a Vileplume and can just generally be beat up with sacred fire again. If you decide to teach dragonbreath to Ho-Oh he can rip through lances team and secure a win. Gyarados could be problematic with out thunder. Gary also has a few pokemon weak to fire as well that can be abused for exp. This Pokemon can also wreck havoc on other gym leaders in the kanto region like Erika.
    Overall, an outstanding pokemon.

    On a side note Ho-Oh can be caught in Silver but only after the player reaches pewter city. Ho-Oh comes at level 70 and does NOT know sacred fire, I think it knows fire blast instead.
  18. Robcore™

    Robcore™

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    Indeed correct, the only way to get Sacred Fire on a Silver Ho-Oh is by completing the Gym Leader Tower on Pokémon Stadium 2 which gives you the option of relearning a level-up move. Same applies to Gold Lugia who doesn't get Aeroblast, I think it's Swift instead..?
  19. Level 51

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    Totodile for Top tier.

    Availability: Starter
    Stats: Average
    Movepool: Above Average
    Additional Comments: Water STAB tears through much of the game, only resisted by Grass, Water and Dragon. Of these, Water and Grass are mainly found post-Elite Four; furthermore, Grass and Dragon can be covered by Ice Beam, which can be acquired early from the Move Tutor outside the Goldenrod Game Corner. Defensively, it is only weak to Grass and Electric, whose respective gyms are likewise post-Elite Four and can be covered by Ice Beam/Dig or Mud Slap.
  20. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Redoing Wooper for mid

    [​IMG]

    -Availability: Wooper is avaialbe very early in the game, after you reach Violet City but before Falkner on Route 34. However, it is only available at night, which may cause complications in obtaining it. Early evolution helps it.
    -Stats: Its stats are generally average or worse, but Quagsire maintains solid bulk along with usable attacking stats, more physically oriented but enough to hit in game trainers hard.
    -Moves: Quagsire lacks an expansive movepool but it gets all it needs with little effort. Earthquake comes through level up for its best STAB, Surf comes at Ecruteak City and Ice Punch comes in Goldenrod, which gives it overall great coverage.
    -Power: Not particularly strong, Quagsire will 2HKO most enemies in-game, or 3HKO of a similar level, but it will rarely fall to one or multiple enemie due to its bulk and typing.
    -Type: Excellent typing. Water and Ground both are great offensively and cover a wide variety of types. Defensively Water/Ground offers resistances to Fire, Poison, Rock, and Steel as well as an immunity to Electric. This leaves few weak points to strike at, only carrying a weakness to Grass.
    -Match-ups:
    Falkner, Bugsy, Whitney, Morty, Chuck: Carries no specific advantages, leaves no specific weaknesses, will fare well against them due to its typing and bulk.
    Jasmine: Surf will KO everything in sight, or Earthquake which you might have at this point.
    Pryce: Beats Piloswine easily, will outlast Seel and Dewgong without much trouble
    Clair: Ice Punch the Dragonair's into oblivion, can outlast Kingdra as Earthquake hits it hard.

    Will: Ice Punch the Xatus, Earthquake the Jynx and let something else beat Slowbro and Eggy.
    Koga: Fears little from his team, can hit all of them either hard or super effectively
    Bruno: lolOnix, the Hitmons dont offer much trouble, Machamp is probably too strong to take on.
    Clair: Run from Vileplume, dont bother with Umbreon or Gengar but smash Murkrow and Houndoom with Ice Punch and Surf
    Lance: Surfs the Charizard and Aerodactyl, Ice Punch the three Dragonites, typing is excellent here.
  21. Glen

    Glen
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    mostly bragging but abra for god tier, i was doing a hardcore nuzlocke with no items (except for tms and held items)/no pokemon centres and beat the whole game from celadon onward with kadabra, dude is splendid
  22. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

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    Glen did a splendid job when he befriended an Abra on which he truly depended.
  23. Cradily

    Cradily

    Joined:
    May 15, 2010
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    79
    Ah I was wondering if lugia had the same problem with his signature move. It might have been swift.
  24. Glen

    Glen
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    i'll never be as splendid as that abra, but i will try
  25. Cradily

    Cradily

    Joined:
    May 15, 2010
    Messages:
    79
    [​IMG]
    Entei -Mid/low
    Availability,
    Mid game/Late game and Rare. If you're lucky you will encounter him before the E4 if you want to use your master ball on him.
    Stats: Good for this generation. Solid 100 base speed, Excellent attack and HP but lacking in the special attack department with only 90 which is high enough to work with. Defenses are lower but are still usable with 115 HP.
    Moves: Entei has a movepool similar to Typlosion, Ember (no flame wheel) and flamethrower, what more do you need? He learns flamethrower at 51, which is 10 levels earlier than Typhlosion. He also gets Fire Blast at level 71 and by TM if you like that move better than flamethrower. The only other good special move learned is solar beam. The only notable physical moves learned are dig, stomp and Iron tail, which don't add that much but can be used if necessary.
    Power: Flamethrower off of 90 special attack hits hard. Not as hard as typhlosion though. 115 Attack is no laughing matter either but won't be doing much with moves like stomp. 115 HP means he will not crumble in one hit, but 4/5 with his defenses.
    Type: Fire type is an excellent type that roasts bug and steel types however few they are.
    Favorable match ups: At this point Claire and the Elite four should remain. Entei will fail against claire. He will punish Koga however with his Fire type STAB. Other than that, he is only situational.

    Entei is a decent replacement for Typhlosion if you chose another starter, he can get the job done but he needs the moves to do so. Since he won't be high enough for flamethrower when you get get him, teaching him fire blast might not be a bad idea to take on Koga because without it you would be using ember and fire spin.

    I don't recall if he has bite when you catch him. I think he does but I can't find it on the internet. Anyone else know/remember? bit would be a good move for him.

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