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Gyarados
- Thread starter Venser
- Start date
why are people saying gyrados can be easily killed by ditto. by the time someone switches into a ditto gyrados could've DD or use thunder wave which screws over scarf ditto.
@timejirachi: Ditto is a revenge killer, not something you switch in to Gyarados, so if Gyara has Stone Edge, Ditto will outspeed and KO.
I see Gyarados' time at an end tbh :(
2 massive checks in Nattorei and Rotom-w mean the DD sweeps of Gen IV will be a thing of the past...
2 massive checks in Nattorei and Rotom-w mean the DD sweeps of Gen IV will be a thing of the past...
I feel roar is still a better option than dragon tail on the rest talk set for a couple of reasons. The biggest reason is it can get rid of substitute stat uppers who would otherwise destroy that gyara (i.e sub calm mind cune). The main reason for using dragon tail was a). It does some damage, but its rather insignificant, and b). its immune to taunt, which doesn't matter much on a sleep talker, as sleep talk will still be useless. You wont be able to roar out soundproof abomasnow (oh noez!!!) but you get 10% more accuracy and 10 more pp (not a big deal there but still).
All the more reason to run Specs Shandera <.<
Honestly, I think Gyrados would merely see less usage, but be more conserved as an endgame sweeper than the typical 'Get in soon, go 6-0' mindset that people had for the majority of DPPt. It's still a good pokemon, just needs to have it's counters in Rotom-Wash and Nattorei weakened severely or taken out of the picture.
Actually, Physically defensive Rest-Talk Gyarados works very well, and shouldn't be discounted.
Nattorei is a great partner for defensive Gyarados, as after it sets up a few layers of Spikes and/or Stealth Rock, Gyarados is happy to switch into many of Nattorei's worst enemies, namely Fighting and Fire types. Gyarados can either Dragon Tail on the switch, causing double entry hazard damage, or simply Waterfall the uglier threats.
Best of all, Gyarados is actually bulky enough to stomach a hit from some of the powerful Stone Edge and Rock Slides in the tier, including Doryuzu's +1 Rock Slide (and usually OHKOing back with Waterfall). A lot of the strategies used to break the Burungeru-Nattorei core don't actually work against Gyarados, thanks to his neutrality to Payback and ability to PHaze.
Nattorei is a great partner for defensive Gyarados, as after it sets up a few layers of Spikes and/or Stealth Rock, Gyarados is happy to switch into many of Nattorei's worst enemies, namely Fighting and Fire types. Gyarados can either Dragon Tail on the switch, causing double entry hazard damage, or simply Waterfall the uglier threats.
Best of all, Gyarados is actually bulky enough to stomach a hit from some of the powerful Stone Edge and Rock Slides in the tier, including Doryuzu's +1 Rock Slide (and usually OHKOing back with Waterfall). A lot of the strategies used to break the Burungeru-Nattorei core don't actually work against Gyarados, thanks to his neutrality to Payback and ability to PHaze.
Ice Fang has fantastic coverage; just very low power. I'm not sure if that was a joke or not.
As for Ditto, you can beat any Ditto as long as you're running Bounce. I run DD/Waterfall/Bounce/Earthquake and it gets good coverage. Ditto loses to you, even at higher levels of attack because you resist Waterfall and are immune to EQ. Most Ditto are Scarf so they will go into the air and land before you, letting you hit them while they can't touch you with Bounce.
By that same logic, you will lose to Ditto if you get the parahax, though
Not necessarily. You can still switch moves, and Ditto will be slower because of the Paralysis, so you can adjust.
one problem with ditto against non SE gyara.
Against gyara all it can do is hope waterfall is Koing gyara or he loses
or they could use their luck for speed tie(common lately)
Finally ditto can be handled by running the logic that you KNOW the move the ditto is using. This is my way of dealing with ditto.
Against gyara all it can do is hope waterfall is Koing gyara or he loses
or they could use their luck for speed tie(common lately)
Finally ditto can be handled by running the logic that you KNOW the move the ditto is using. This is my way of dealing with ditto.
Then he'll be crippled and you can revenge it afterward, OR you can use Waterfall. Waterfall + paralysis is a pretty good combo, as many know. On average, I'm betting you'll come out on top (actually, you might have nearly KO'd it with Bounce by then anyway).
Gyara isn't quite the offensive sweeping presence he was in Gen 4 but still retains the ability to serve as a check and counter to a lot of common threats. Probably better defensively this gen, though he can still sweep late game.
Defensive Gyrados usage will probably go up. I'm actually considering a Dragon Tail Gyra later on since it has the power to hit through a few common Subs. Offensive Gyrados is going to shrink in usage by a fair amount, but I still wouldn't discount the ol' lug just yet. He just needs a bit more care and support now. Can't just throw him out and DDSweep anymore.
Just bumping this to say that a bulky, tank set is definitely Gyara's new standard this gen. As a sweeper there are lots of new threats that have arisen that although don't outclass him generally do the job better and are easier to set up.
Gyarados@Leftovers
Impish, 252 HP/252 DEF/6 SDEF
Intimidate
~Waterfall
~Dragon Tail
~Rest
~Sleep Talk
I recall an occassion that he saved me from being 5-0'd by some other guy by soloing all 5 of this team members. Granted 2 of them had any form of offensive power (Lucario and some other Special Sweeper), but the thing is this is one of my favourite sets this new Gen.
Gyarados@Leftovers
Impish, 252 HP/252 DEF/6 SDEF
Intimidate
~Waterfall
~Dragon Tail
~Rest
~Sleep Talk
I recall an occassion that he saved me from being 5-0'd by some other guy by soloing all 5 of this team members. Granted 2 of them had any form of offensive power (Lucario and some other Special Sweeper), but the thing is this is one of my favourite sets this new Gen.
Flamethrower is an option to create a mixed Dragon Dancing Gyrados. Before people go "what the heck?" (I know, I did too at first), one of Gyrados's most common counters (and on every dang team almost) is Nattorei and most people never hesitate switching it in. But with minor investment (unfortunately this means you can't be running defensive) and Life Orb can 2 hit ko even max hp/max sdef Nattorei with Flamethrower in non rain. I lost twice to "gimmicky" Gyrados's that ran Flamethrower (one 4th gen admittedly) and it is a total surprise because it works. And if Nattorei can waste moveslots on Sandstorm and Burungeru/Tentacruel etc on Hail, Gyrados can use a moveslot on Flamethrower. And it is just funny to watch people's reactions when Gyrados blasts Flamethrowers.
Porygon2 is still a problem but nothing Gyrados can do beats that (unless it gets a lucky flinch hax with Waterfall in rain which can 2 hit ko from offensive Life Orb but...).
Porygon2 is still a problem but nothing Gyrados can do beats that (unless it gets a lucky flinch hax with Waterfall in rain which can 2 hit ko from offensive Life Orb but...).
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
I wanted to keep this quiet, but at one point I was running Fire Blast on a dragon tail gyarados phaser on my sun stall team. Sun boosted 0 EV, neutral Fire Blast with a neutral nature is a solid 2HKO on Max/Max specially defensive Nattorei.
As cool as it was though, people began to catch on to me and I had to drop it.
As cool as it was though, people began to catch on to me and I had to drop it.
Speaking of gimmicks, I think my worst ragequit was due to a Gyarados running two moves which screwed both of its "checks" (they didn't beat him so they must not be counters, lawl). Fire Blast + Toxic. Seriously, it 2HKOed my Nattorei and caught my Porygon2 on the switchin with Toxic, crippling it for the rest of the match. I think its other two moves were Waterfall and Earthquake lol.
Fire Blast is an option on Gyarados for Nattorei. Even Adamant Gyara manages a 2HKO on Nattorei with SR and LO.
Gyarados@Life Orb
Adamant; 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Waterfall
Fire Blast
Stone Edge
Dragon Dance
It crisps Nattorei and Tangrowth for a solid 2HKO, as other Grasses (Celebi, Shaymin) are really nowhere to be seen this gen, so it gets the nod over Ice Fang I guess.
Gyarados@Life Orb
Adamant; 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Waterfall
Fire Blast
Stone Edge
Dragon Dance
It crisps Nattorei and Tangrowth for a solid 2HKO, as other Grasses (Celebi, Shaymin) are really nowhere to be seen this gen, so it gets the nod over Ice Fang I guess.