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Heatran【BW2 Revamp】【QC: 2/3】

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Trinitrotoluene, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene ♪~ i don't want to know what she did; she is not who i am ~♪
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
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    gosh, it was a nightmare formatting this thread for ease of reading. i'm pretty sure the skeleton itself has plenty of grammatical errors. not that it matters, really. it's just me rambling on again. also, 630th post. ye.

    [BOX]A note for the OU QC team: I'll be keeping the first two QC approvals from DFA's thread, since they cover content issues. As for the prose approval, I'll leave that to one of you.

    Things to do:
    • Make this thread actually look nice []
    • Write up Heatran [ ]
    • Get QC approval for prose [ ]
    • Get GP checks for (hopefully) approved prose [ ]
    • Upload this [ ]
    [/BOX]

    [BOX]--------------------------------
    Status: Writing.
    QC Approvals: [AccidentalGreed] || [alexwolf] || [ ]
    GP Checks: [ ] || [ ]
    --------------------------------[/BOX]
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    ...and the cracks begin to show.

    [Overview]

    TNT comment: I think I may have gone overboard on Heatran's Overview. I'll condense it if needed.

    <p>The transition to BW2 has not been an easy one for Heatran. A multitude of threats, such as Keldeo, Terrakion, and Gyarados, can extinguish Heatran's flames in an instant. Dugtrio's popularity as an anti-weather trapper did not help Heatran's situation in the slightest, due to Heatran's quad weakness to Ground-type moves. Heatran also struggles to damage Tyranitar, Latios, and Latias, three prominent OU residents. This also doesn't factor in the damper rain puts on Heatran's firepower. After reading all this, you may be asking yourself, "How does Heatran maintain such high usage, despite all that it has going against it?"</p>

    <p>Well, the answer is fairly simple. Thanks to its Steel subtype, Heatran is one of the few Fire-types in the entire game who is not burdened with a weakness to Stealth Rock, making it more easy to fit on teams. Many of the Steel-types endemic to OU, such as Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and Skarmory, rarely carry moves that threaten Heatran, allowing it to switch in nearly for free. In addition, Heatran almost singlehandedly keeps sun teams in check, thanks to its typing and Flash Fire. Regarding its typing, Heatran's weaknesses are also readily exploited, while its resistances are readily appreciated by most teams. Heatran's base stats and movepool conducive to those stats also allow it incredible versatility in terms of what sets it can run effectively. Overall, while Heatran's viability may seem to have diminished on paper, it's just the opposite in practice.</p>

    Overview Skeletion (open)
    • Heatran struggles somewhat in a metagame dominated by rain
    • On every corner, there's always a Water- or Fighting-type Pokémon/Attack waiting to defeat him, or a Dugtrio waiting to trap him
    • Latis and Tyranitar on every corner don't help either, as Heatran struggles to damage them
    • This is not to speak about its crippling 4x weakness to Ground
    • Although this is not as crippling as the above weakness, as Ground is an easy weakness to cover with so many Pokémon immune to it
    • Still, Heatran is one of the few Fire-types easy to fit on teams
    • It takes out most Steel- and Grass-types with its Fire STAB
    • Speaking of Steel-types, many of them almost always use moves that don't threathen Heatran at all, giving it free switches
    • Heatran can easily counter any sun team that doesn't have Dugtrio or whose Dugtrio has been take out
    • Heatran is versatile, can run defensive sets, offensive support sets, and even trapping sets

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Stealth Rock / Toxic / Taunt
    item: Air Balloon / Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Perhaps the best offensive supporter for teams around
    • Can fit on any non-rain team, especially those looking for a way to setup Stealth Rock reliably, a way to deal with Dragon-types that lack a Fighting- or Water-type attack, or simply a way to wall sun teams
    • Fire Blast is the best STAB to run on this set, it can OHKO/2HKO any Steel- and Grass-type, many of them can be 2HKOed even on rain
    • Earth Power is there so that opposing Heatran do not wall him, so, it is a necessity (even more so than Fire Blast). However, it is also useful to, for example, 2HKO Terrakion (not that you would stay in on him; but you can discourage him from switching-in a second time).
    • Hidden Power Ice is the recommended Hidden Power. Is the combination of it and Air Balloon that allows Heatran to check most Dragon-types
    • Hidden Power Grass is a viable option to deal with Water-types, especially Rotom-W, Politoed, Starmie, and Gastrodon, all which can take the other attacks with ease
    • As for the last slot, Stealth Rock is the primary option. Heatran setups Stealth Rock reliably, thanks to the switches that it forces
    • If something else can set up Stealth Rock on your team, Toxic is the other main option to shut down common switch-ins like bulky Water-types, and beat Volcarona one on kne
    • Taunt shuts down common switch-ins, like the blobs and defensive Water-types, and also shut down Baton Pass
    • It can also surprise things expecting to use Heatran as setup fodder, like Gyarados
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Instead of Toxic, you can run Will-O-Wisp. It has the advantage of being capable of crippling Fighting-types not named Conkeldurr, as well as Gyarados
    • Flame Charge can be used to sweep late-game. It also lets Heatran beat Dugtrio, by hitting him on the switch, outspeeding, and then OHKOing with Fire Blast or a super-effective Hidden Power
    • Apart from those, Roar is yet another option, capable of surprising switches and setup sweepers. Unlike Taunt, it can rack up hazard damage
    • Dragon Pulse is an option on the last slot if you run Hidden Power Grass, as you can then still cover Dragons, which would not be possible with Hidden Power Ice. It works better when Life Orb is used as the item, since otherwise Heatran may not have the power to OHKO most Dragon-types after Stealth Rock damage
    • Overall, the last slot is mainly filler; choose which option you think that is the best for your team
    • Air Balloon is the primary item to avoid Ground-type attacks, Spikes, and being trapped by Dugtrio. Life Orb can be used to buff its attacks, especially when using Flame Charge, as the extra power is appreciated to sweep
    • Apart from Air Balloon and Life Orb, Leftovers can also be used, but being able to be immune to Ground-type attacks has generally more utility than having extra longevity
    • 252 SpA to hit as hard as possible, 4 SpD to prevent the rare but annoying Porygon2 from grabbing an SpA boost from Heatran
    • A bulky spread can be used, with 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe can be used, with a Modest nature, as Heatran appreciates the extra bulk, but it will miss out outspeeding Adamant Dragonite, defensive Gliscor, and Breloom
    • The reason why a Timid nature is chosen, is because Heatran can outspeed Breloom (Jolly or Adamant), and Adamant Dragonite, and OHKO them with Fire Blast or Hidden Power Ice (after Multiscale has been broken), respectively
    • As for partners, Pokémon that attract Fire-type attacks are good partners, examples being Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Scizor
    • The former two are able to setup hazards to help Heatran dishing out more damage, and the latter can easily dispose of Blissey and Chansey, two notable counters to this set. Scizor also checks Lati@s, Tyranitar, and Terrakion, things that either Heatran struggles to damage, or is forced to run away from
    • Ninetales is a good partner to power up Fire Blast, making Heatran a dangerous sweeper even mid-game if it chooses to run Flame Charge
    • Tyranitar is another good partner to dispose of the pink blobs, as well as Lati@s, two things that can wall Heatran (Hidden Power Ice hurts, though, but does not 2HKO)
    • Celebi and Jellicent are two great partners that resist Heatran's weakness. The former easily disposes of bulky Water-types that counter this set, and the latter is immune to the only two weakness that Heatran have (with Air Balloon). Both counter Keldeo, a notable counter to this Heatran
    • Landorus-T can counter Terrakion, and thus is a notable partner. It can be easily fitten on offensive teams. Gengar is another check to Terrakion, as it is immune to Close Combat, outspeed, and do heavy damage with Focus Blast.
    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Lava Plume
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Roar
    move 4: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp / Stealth Rock
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Heatran is sturdy and has a lot of key resistances, a wide support movepool, so it makes a good special wall, even though it has no reliable recovery
    • It also not setup bait, thanks to its 130 base SpA and Lava Plume's high burn chance
    • Lava Plume is, of course, the best STAB move to use on this set. High burn chance and reability are the reasons for this.
    • Stealth Rock is the primary option due to the switches that Heatran forces, but if there is something else that can setup it on your team, Roar is preferred to phaze and rack up hazard damage
    • Protect scouts choiced moves, and gives more Leftovers recovery, in adittion to racking up more residual damage on the opponent
    • Toxic and Will-O-Wisp are both status moves that can be used. The former is preferred because of Lava Plume's high burn chance
    • But instead, you can run Earth Power. Earth Power allows Heatran to take out opposing Heatran, as well as other Fire-types, that can wall this set otherwise. Earth Power from offensive Heatran sets do not OHKO this Heatran, but it has 78% chance to OHKO back with its own Earth Power. Another viable option is Hidden Power Ice, which defeats Dragon-types, Gliscor, and Landorus(-T)
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • The reason why a specially defensive set is chosen over a physical one, is because most Heatran's resistances are specially-based, and the most common physical attacks aimed at Heatran hit it super-effectively, such as Close Combat and Earthquake, and would OHKO or 2HKO even with maximum investiment. In adittion, Heatran can already use Lava Plume to burn opponents and shrug off physical hits.
    • Earth Power, Torment, Substitute and Taunt (moves not necessarily in best order at the moment)
    • An EV spread of 248 HP / 16 SpA / 244 SpD with a Modest nature and Flamethrower as the main attacking move can be used, it lets Heatran hit a little harder, which can be useful on many situations. For example, it can be used to OHKO standard Ferrothorn on rain 60% of time, something that even standard defensive Heatran cannot do
    • Another viable EV spread is a faster one, with 248 HP / 12 SpD / 248 Spe and a Calm nature. This lets Heatran outrun Adamant Breloom and Jolly Scizor, and take them down with Lava Plume. It can also outspeed SubD-Tail Kyurem-B, and Roar him before it can phaze Heatran with Dragon Tail. This spread can also outspeed Gliscor and Landorus-T, which is a boon if you are using Hidden Power Ice.
    • Toxic Spikes support is appreciated if Heatran plans to run Earth Power instead of a status move, but Toxic Spikes is somewhat ineffective in this new metagame
    • Forretress can do this job, and it can attract Fire-type attacks that Heatran can easily absorb
    • Wish support is appreciated because Heatran lacks reliable recovery. Vaporeon is a great teammate because it can provide this, and absorb Water-type attacks aimed at Heatran
    • Jellicent also absorbs Water-attacks, and as a bonus, is immune to 2 of Heatran's weakness
    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Earth Power / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Heatran has the tendency to force switches, and this set trys to take advantage of this, to setup a free Substitute
    • Fire Blast is the best STAB to run on this set, especially as Substitute means that Heatran can usually afford to miss
    • Earth Power is recommended to take out opposing Heatran, but Hidden Power Ice is this Heatran's only means of damaging Dragon-types.
    • The last slot goes to a status move. Toxic is the recommended option to surprise bulky Water-types; it can't be stalled out by reliable recovery and is more accurate
    • However, Will-O-Wisp can cripple any physical sweeper not named Conkeldurr
    • Another option is to use both Earth Power and Hidden Power Ice, forgoing the use of a status move althogeter. This is not recommended, though, as Heatran likes to have a way to cripple bulky Water-types while it is behind a Substitute
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Hidden Power Grass can be used to damage bulky Water-types, but this set has a better way to deal with them: crippling them with status
    • You can use more HP EVs to make Heatran bulkier, but you have to take out EVs from SpA, as Heatran needs all speed that it can get to preserve its substitute whenever possible
    • Please note that Pokémon with Natural Cure will not mind being statused, so this Heatran is yet another set that can't deal well with the blobs
    • This is not to mention that Vaporeon can simply cure itself from status if it's raining
    • Scizor can deal with the former, and Ferrothorn can deal with the latter. Both can also attract Fire-type attacks that Heatran can absorb
    • It's recommended that you use a partner that can take out opposing Heatran, like Dugtrio, if you are not using Earth Power.
    • This Heatran can toxic stall Politoed and Tyranitar, so your own Tyranitar or Ninetales can take advantage of this
    • Anything that can take advantage of poisoned or burned opponents is a good partner. For example, setup sweepers like Latias are able to use poisoned bulky Water-types as setup fodder, while Toxic puts them at KO range, or force switches.
    • Celebi is peharps the best partner for Heatran, as it can deal with bulky Water-type Pokémon that do not mind status, such as Starmie and Hydration Vaporeon. They have awesome synergy in general.
    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Overheat / Fire Blast
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Flamethrower
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Heatran can also function as a good revenge killer. Its base 77 Speed lets it outrun up to Base 130s
    • Overheat is the recommended option because Heatran will be usually switching out anyway, and it is more accurate and lets Heatran dish out as much damage as possible
    • Fire Blast can be used instead to stay out for longer
    • Earth Power because again, you don't want to give free switch-ins to opposing Heatran and Rock-types
    • Hidden Power Ice revenge kills Dragons, and is a more reliable way to deal with Gliscor and Landorus, than using its innacurate Fire attacks
    • Dragon Pulse deals more damage to Dragons 2x weak to Ice (such as Lati@s and Hydreigon), but those 4x weak to Ice take more damage from Hidden Power Ice, which is why the latter is the preferred option. However, Dragon Pulse hits Kyurem-B, and Kingdra, two Dragons neutral to Hidden Power Ice. Dragon Pulse is also this Heatran's best attack against Rotom-W
    • Flamethrower to sweep late-game or in situations where Overheat is inadivsable
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Unfortunately, this set is not as powerful as other offensive sets, and is prone to becoming setup bait if you choose the wrong attack.
    • However, this set can also deal with Dugtrio. The only other of Heatran's sets that can do this are those that carry Air Balloon or Flame Charge
    • Hidden Power Grass is yet another option to deal with Gastrodon and Quagsire
    • Hidden Power Electric lets you revenge kill Gyarados. The loss of Hidden Power Ice is not too bad, as Heatran can OHKO Landorus and Gliscor with Fire Blast/Overheat. However, you must then use Dragon Pulse instead of Flamethrower, to not be walled by Dragon-types
    • Ninetales is a good partner to power up Overheat, letting it revenge kill almost anything that doesn't resist it
    • On sun teams, Chlorophyll sweepers such as Venusaur easily take out bulky Water-types that tend to wall this set. Venusaur can even defeat the pink blobs in a strange yet effective way.
    • A partner that can deal with Pokémon that may try to take advantage of a Choice-locked Heatran is appreciated. Some examples are Terrakion, Keldeo, Dragonite, Salamence, Latias, and Gyarados. Scizor, Celebi, Mamoswine, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T are some examples.
    [SET]
    name: Weather Trapper
    move 1: Sunny Day
    move 2: Magma Storm
    move 3: Solarbeam
    move 4: Earth Power / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Air Balloon / Life Orb / Chople Berry
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    I'm considering just reusing the current analysis text for this section.
    • Heatran can use Sunny Day alongside Magma Storm to win weather wars
    • Apart from them, Solarbeam is there to smack Politoed and Tyranitar, as well as any bulky Water-type foolish enough to switch-in, suck as Rotom-W, Starmie, Jellicent, and Gastrodon.
    • As Magma Storm will trap them, they have no choice but to be 2HKOed, and there's little they can do back.
    • Earth Power is a necessity to dispose of opposing Heatran, and thus is the recommended option
    • Hidden Power Ice is better used if you have a partnered Dugtrio, but in any case, it disposes of Dragon-types without relying on Magma Storm's shaky accuracy
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • This set can be used on non-sun teams, but seriously, it functions much better on them, and you should have better ways to win the weather war otherwise
    • For this reason, Ninetales is the best partner. Ninetales generally is the weather inducer that has the hardest time winning weather wars, so it appreciates this Heatran as a partner as well
    • Timid Venusaur is a partner that can deal with dangerous Pokémon like Terrakion. Under sun, it can outspeed even Scarf variants, and can also deal with Scarf Politoed, the only Politoed set that can beat this Heatran.
    • Trapping support from the likes of Dugtrio and Wobbuffet is appreciated to deal with Pokémon that give this set trouble, such as faster Fighting-types or weather inducers
    • The former can even free up a moveslot to Hidden Power Ice on Heatran
    • Something that can deal with Chansey and Blissey is a good partner. Xatu will beat them 1x1 due to a combination of Toxic, Roost, and Magic Bounce. Darmanitan and Victini OHKO them on the sun, SubToxic Gliscor setups on them, and Terrakion simply makes them run away
    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Fire Blast / Overheat
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Dragon Pulse / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Flamethrower
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • This set is the most powerful set that Heatran has. It opens holes on the opponent's teams, and leave the rest to Heatran's teammates
    • Fire Blast is so powerful under sun that it can 2HKO some Pokémon that resist it, and even the pink blobs can be 2HKOed with Stealth Rock damage
    • Overheat can replace it to dish out the most damage possible. However, it forces Heatran to switch after it uses this
    • Earth Power is there to not be walled by opposing Heatran
    • Dragon Pulse covers Dragon-types, and is Heatran's most effective option against the likes of Lati@s. Hidden Power Ice is more effective against Dragon-types 4x weak to it, as well as being more accurate against Landorus and Gliscor. However, the latter are already OHKOed by Fire-type attacks
    • And using Hidden Power Ice does not let Heatran use Hidden Power Grass, which gives important coverage against bulky Water-types.
    • But Flamethrower can replace Hidden Power Grass, especially if you are using Overheat. It may seem to be redundant to run 2 Fire moves on this set, but there are times when Flamethrower will be preferred over Fire Blast because it is more accurate, or over Overheat because it doesn't force Heatran to switch
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • A Modest nature is the main option to deal as much damage as possible, but Timid can be used, especially if you use Hidden Power Ice, to outspeed Adamant Dragonite and OHKO him.
    • A spread with 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD with a Quiet nature is viable and makes use of the move Eruption. Eruption is so powerful when boosted by Choice Specs and sun, that it can even 2HKO Chansey without Stealth Rock support. However, Eruption is a move that is only legal with a Quiet nature; this means that Heatran should be used with Trick Room support, obviously. Physically defensive Trick Room Cresselia is possibly the best partner (apart from Ninetales) for this reason.
    • Ninetales is appreciated as a partner, to power up Fire Blast, making it excessively powerful and capable of beating even the pink blobs
    • Also, on a sun team, Heatran can open holes for Chlorophyll sweepers like Venusaur, to take advantage of them later on battle
    • Although Terrakion hates coming on Earth Power or repeated sun-boosted Fire Blasts, it nonetheless can use a -2 Heatran as setup bait, and potentially wreck the entire sun team with a SubSalac set. Timid Venusaur can revenge kill this Terrakion's set, but Gliscor or Forretress can also deal with this Terrakion too.
    [Other Options]
    • A TormentTran set can be used, but Toxic Spikes sucks on this metagame, and this set is hard to pull off
    • Shed Shell is another way which Heatran can deal with Dugtrio, not by defeating him, but by being capable of switching out. However,
    • Scarf/Balloon/Flame Charge/Magma Storm sets are much more effective in terms of dealing with Dugtrio; you are also forced to forfeit a valuable item, like Leftovers or Life Orb
    • Flash Cannon can be used as a secondary STAB to hit Rock-types harder, but Heatran has Earth Power, which has no STAB but also cover Rock-types, but has better coverage. Flash Cannon works as a STAB option on rain teams, though. (Fire-type STAB still comes handy against things like Ferrothorn)
    • Dark Pulse and AncientPower are poor in terms of coverage, and even when super-effective, are often outdamaged by a neutral Fire Blast
    • Metal Sound can force switches or force the opponent to take heavy damage, but it is unreliable and gimmicky
    • Stone Edge is an option to take out Volcarona, OHKOing 4/0 variants even with a negative nature. But it has no use otherwise
    • Heatran can use a RestTalk set, since it is its only mean of recovery. However, awful sleep mechanics hinder this set's viability
    • Don't use Flame Body. Flash Fire is what lets Heatran counter sun teams effectively, and most physical sweepers have a way to 2HKO or OHKO Heatran anyway.
    • Lastly, Heatran can use a Magma Storm set without Sunny Day, or vice-versa, but both are more effective when used thogether
    [Checks & Counters]
    • Chansey and Blissey are the only foolproof counters to Heatran, they take nothing from most attacks and are immune to status, but they must watch out for Specs sun-boosted Fire Blast which will 2HKO.
    • Bulky Water-types that are not weak to Earth Power, but they must watch out for Hidden Power Grass/Electric.
    • Keldeo hates Hidden Power Grass/Electric and repeated sun-boosted Fire-type attacks, but it can usually switch-in safely and OHKO with any of its STAB moves.
    • Terrakion is generally a good switch-in for Heatran. It hates coming out on Earth Power (which will 2HKO if sandstorm is not up), but Heatran does not straight away use Earth Power because it wants to use the opportunity to setup Stealth Rock, which is like if Heatran was saying "Hey Terrakion, you can come here free!". With sandstorm active, Terrakion does not mind Earth Power either, as it only has a very small chance to be 2HKOed. Heatran does not to want staying in because it will be OHKOed by Close Combat; Terrakion can take advantage of this to setup a SD/RP/Sub. It does have to watch out for Will-O-Wisp and Lava Plume, however.
    • Other Fighting-types can also work, but each of them has a unfortunate drawback that makes them shaky checks. Conkeldur is 2HKOed by Fire Blast, Lucario is hard pressed to find an opportunity to switch on Heatran, and Breloom does not even OHKO with Mach Punch without a boost, while Fire Blast easily OHKO back. All of them except Conkeldurr also loathe status
    • Anything with Earthquake is able to easily dispose of Heatran, but Heatran can carry Air Balloon, and with so many foes immune to Earthquake, one must think twice about using this move
    • Dugtrio often carry Focus Sash to switch out safely on any attack except Magma Storm, trap Heatran, and defeat him with Earthquake, or even Reversal. It must watch out for sets with Choice Scarf or Flame Charge, however.
    • Landorus (both Therian and Incarnate) can outspeed and defeat Heatran, but it cannot switch on Hidden Power Ice, or Fire-type attacks. The same applies to Garchomp.
    • Opposing Heatran with Air Balloon are good counters, as long as your own Heatran does not carry Air Balloon
    • CM Latias takes little damage from most attacks, even Hidden Power Ice, and proceeds to setup on it with impunity. Latios also works, but it loathes Hidden Power Ice and sun-boosted Fire-type attacks.
    • Tyranitar is generally a good counter. It takes little damage from even Earth Power on sandstorm. Weather Trapper sets will 2HKO with Solarbeam under sun, but the most common variant of Tyranitar, Choice Band, OHKO with Superpower, not giving Heatran time to setup sun or attack back.
    • Mamoswine does not fear even Air Balloon variants, as it often carry Superpower to deal with them
    • If Heatran lacks Earth Power, opposing Heatran have free reign, and if Heatran lacks Hidden Power Ice, Dragon-types are generally capable of walling and defeating Heatran
    • Without Hidden Power Grass, Gastrodon and Rotom-W wall Heatran forever. However, it must also watch out for Toxic
    • Things that Heatran usually defeat can instead defeat him with the appropriate move. For example, Heatran cannot switch on Scizor's Superpower, Venusaur's Earthquake, Celebi's Earth Power, etc.
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    can we skip QC and go straight to GP process, since DFA's Heatran was already fully QC approved? I'd rather not delay this any further.

    PS: Actually nvm; it seems like you received the skeleton without later revisions.

    Pls change the Specially Defensive set to the following:

  3. Lork

    Lork

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    no wow?
  4. BKC

    BKC
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    i'd make the sdef set lava plume/protect/roar/stealth rock, with toxic as the primary slash in the last two slots.
  5. George Eliot

    George Eliot

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    Yeah agreeing with BKC. Roar abuses its ability to force switches in conjunction with entry hazards, which is perfect for a set which will usually be on a defensive team, and guarantees you won't be swept.
  6. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    lol it seems like we all want something different (ginganinja suggested something else), but we all agree that the current set has too many slashitis
  7. tehy

    tehy

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    I say roar needs a primary slash.

    The ability to stop stuff from setting up all over you, even if it comes at the cost of your life, is just so helpful. Even though Toxic and to an extent Lava Plume can do this, they are boned by Sub and Lum, and anyhow those two only stop it to an extent.

    Stealth Rock should be a secondary slash if only because you might already have something on your team capable of laying Stealth Rocks.

    Actually BKC's is good, but I would slash Toxic first and have SR in the last two slashes. Just saying-nothing can really Toxic for Tran (Especially considering all the great toxic-able bulky waters he lures in), but stuff CAN stealth rock for him.

    Edit: To be fair, I have something else that sets rocks. But yeah. Plus, I prefer to use Tran to status stuff on the switch, I don't want to waste a turn Rocking.
  8. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene ♪~ i don't want to know what she did; she is not who i am ~♪
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    Okay, I'm getting all these different recommendations for the Specially Defensive set. For now, I've gone with BKC's recommendations, but I've taken a couple liberties of my own, namely the movement of Earth Power, Taunt, and HP Ice to AC, as well as the secondary Toxic slashes for both Roar and Stealth Rock. I don't intend on this sounding rude, but may I get a final consensus from the QC team as to what should be slashed for the Specially Defensive set?
  9. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    OK yea, I 100% understand your confusion, its something I have directly tried to get an agreement towards

    Here is my opinion:

    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Lava Plume
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Roar
    move 4: Toxic / Will-o-wisp / Stealth Rock

    AC

    Earth Power / Taunt / Sub / Torment (deserves an AC mention now that the sets dropped to OO) / HP Ice and idk, anything else we need chucking in. (Note that AC is not in order of best to worst its random atm).

    Here is the logic:

    Out of all the people I discussed this set with (not all of them QC members as I tried to get opinions from the top level players)), they all agreed that Lava Plume and Roar were staple and deserved nothing slashed with them. Of those, the majority then preferred Protect in the 3rd moveslot, which is why I put it all by itself.

    The 4th moveslot is by far the trickiest to sort as people disagree on how used Stealth Rock is. Specially Defensive Heatran is commonly seen on defensive teams, or balance teams. Teams such as this often back something like a Hippowdon / Landorus-T / Tyrantiar / Jirachi / even Celebi which can all set up Stealth Rock. There is utterly no denial that Stealth Rock is a good move on Heatran, its not an uncommon move and pretty much every half decent team runs it Stealth Rock somewhere, however, often when teambuilding, you can put Stealth Rocks on something else without too much trouble, and there is a general belief that Heatran can use slightly more useful moves if it had the moveslots.

    Based on this, I ranked Toxic and Will-o-wisp as the first 2 moves in the 4th moveslot, as moves that Heatran really enjoys to use. For instance, with Toxic it can shut down Hippowdon, as well as bulky water types such as Rotom-W and Politoed. Will-o-wisp overlaps with Toxic a bit, its true, but its very nice for shutting down Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Garchomp, Terrakion and Landorus-T on the switch, as all of these mons can really threaten Heatran. Its true that Lava Plume discourages physical sweepers from switching in, however, there will be times when you really really want a "guaranteed" burn if you know one of the above moves are switching in, and as such it is slashed 2nd. WoW also has excellent synergy with Protect (still on its own in moveslot 3) making it still a good option. Stealth Rock is slashed third, because while its always an excellent move on Heatran, you can often put it on something else without too much trouble.

    Stealth Rock being fairly common in my view prevents it dropping to AC completely, as well as several players (and myself) being utterly opposed to it being AC.

    Sorry for the tl;dr but I wanted to give a fair evaluation, and as it currently stands, this has the support of a few QC members.
  10. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Is this getting worked on still or no?
  11. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene ♪~ i don't want to know what she did; she is not who i am ~♪
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    Ye, I'm working on this.
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Someone lock this pls.

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