Heavy Offense

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Don't forget Gliscor as one of the big defensive nuisances for the team. I'm pretty sure he outspeeds everything other than Infernape, and it's going to take a lot of priority attacks to drag him down.

I'm not sure to what extent you can implement this, but the usual way to run a Fighting-heavy team is to use one or two U-Turners to rack up damage vs. Rotoms and bulky fliers and use that as the means to open the holes for the sweep. The reason this is hard to do is that U-Turn Infernape/Primeape aren't so good without Choice items, which means that they're basically forced to do nothing but U-Turn until you're certain you can sweep, which really restricts your options. On the other hand, it would either give you an out vs. setup (with Scarf) or more raw sweeping power once the walls are cleared out of the way (with Band), but it's not clear that you can build a team that can manage it.

The Breloom question is an interesting one, because the Ground resistance is pretty strong given that you're carrying at least two Ground weaks (no way you don't have Lucario and Infernape), but it's slow and restricted as a sweeper. I actually think it's worth considering Sporeless Breloom here, so you can use Stone Edge in addition to both STABs, or possibly Stone Edge + Mach Punch + fighting move of choice. Spore is pretty useful when it threatens to cripple a sweeper or win you free turns of setup, so I don't know, but it's an option that I don't think is totally invalid.
Small bonus to Breloom, protection against status is probably at a premium on this team. Infernape can absorb Wisps, but I don't know how many of your guys can afford to run Lum Berry, and most guys are better off running a boosting item to strengthen their priority.

Also, I don't think Toxicroak is ideal (among other things, he's probably going to give you 3x ground and/or 3x fire weaks), but it does have the advantage of resisting both Waterfall and Stone Edge from Gyarados, so that's something at least. I doubt he's usable, but it's worth noting that Poliwrath does the same, although he's probably not good enough either.
 
Latias can also be a pain for fighting HO, although frequent U-turns dent it nicely. It might sort of go against the speed theme of HO, but in my opinion subChamp lures and rapes a lot of would-be counters. A set of substitute, D-punch, Payback, and Ice Punch/Stone Edge would work. I'd go for ice punch, to hit Gliscor and dragons harder, but SE is worth considering if the team is unable to provide more hurt than Gyarados can handle.

An alternative, though perhaps gimmicky option, is a priority LO-Hitmontop. With Sucker Punch, Rotom is no longer a solid counter (unless it uses status, bleh). To deal with status as well, a set of sub/CC/SE/Sucker Punch might work. But having both LO and sub might be too detrimental to Hitmontop's health. Another downside is its somewhat mediocre attack stat....

In the end, I would advocate use of SubChamp, since it lures and kills some of the most annoying counters to HO.
 
The big problem with fighters seems to be that they are frail and that they have a varied list of counters, including psychics, flyers, and ghosts.

There are quite a few viable options here too...
SD Lucario and SD Infernape are givens imo
SD Gallade seems good too
SD Heracross or SD Breloom are also fine additions to give us a ground resist
Machamp and Hitmontop could also see use
Toxicroak and Poliwrath...certainly options...croak has good priority moves.
Hariyama is a fire resist

The real question is what do we link them together with? Ttar, Scizor, and Metagross are the obvious ones. It appears that we are basically going to have an extended Rotom-A walled team. We might even want Gyara to help with the ground weakness we have forming as well as give us a fire resist that is altogether lacking. This is not nearly as easy as Dragon HO lol.
 
I'm not confident with the fighting team since there are many varied counters for them, besides the ones that Anachronism just mentioned. Meanwhile, the Dragon HO team really only has to fear steel types and ice attacks. In addition, most of the fighters are rather slow. This allows for checks to more easily take down that type of team.
 

Myzozoa

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Type based HO can also used specially based pokemon because youre working to destroy certain resistances not certain stat distributions. Im not sure how to apply this to fighting type HO, but nasty plot infernape could be used instead of SD I guess.
 
NP ape wil be interesting to use but perhaps splitting attack and sp attack is not a good idea... i have never tried it so i am not sure
 
I have been messing around on ladder with the following Fighting HO team:

DS Azelf (surprise surprise)
Jolly SD Flame Orb Heracross (CC, Megahorn, Facade)
Jolly SD Gallade (CC, Ice Punch, Shadow Sneak)
Jolly SD Infernape (CC, Stone Edge, Mach Punch)
Adamant SD Lucario (CC, Crunch, Extremespeed)
SD Scizor (Bug Bite, Superpower, Bulletpunch)

This is clearly a pretty garbage, unrefined team, yet it maintained approximately 80-90% wins in about 20 games. Fighting HO has potential imo. We just need to refine it a bit.

Close Combat is so ridiculously powerful. I rammed my way through teams with 4 CC resists simply because it is so beastly powerful. You know how dragon can't be 4x resisted? Well, similarly, 4x Fighting resists are rare, because it yields such crappy typing. Stuff like Yanmega and Crobat. You also have the advantage of there being so many more viable Close Combat spammers than Outrage spammers, and most of them have swords dance and priority moves. You just slam huge amounts of CCs and priority until stuff dies. So crazy...
 
In my opinion, Heavy Offense teams are actually some of the hardest teams to build anyway, on to my real point.

Anachronism said:
I have been messing around on ladder with the following Fighting HO team:

DS Azelf (surprise surprise)
Jolly SD Flame Orb Heracross (CC, Megahorn, Facade)
Jolly SD Gallade (CC, Ice Punch, Shadow Sneak)
Jolly SD Infernape (CC, Stone Edge, Mach Punch)
Adamant SD Lucario (CC, Crunch, Extremespeed)
SD Scizor (Bug Bite, Superpower, Bulletpunch)

This is clearly a pretty garbage, unrefined team, yet it maintained approximately 80-90% wins in about 20 games. Fighting HO has potential imo. We just need to refine it a bit.

Close Combat is so ridiculously powerful. I rammed my way through teams with 4 CC resists simply because it is so beastly powerful. You know how dragon can't be 4x resisted? Well, similarly, 4x Fighting resists are rare, because it yields such crappy typing. Stuff like Yanmega and Crobat. You also have the advantage of there being so many more viable Close Combat spammers than Outrage spammers, and most of them have swords dance and priority moves. You just slam huge amounts of CCs and priority until stuff dies. So crazy...
If the point of Heavy Offense is to overpower the other team until it is a brutally murdered, why all the jolly natures instead of Adamant? Or am I missing something?
 
jolly still overpowers the opposition, but is needed in order to get not revenge killed by stuff like mence since they can take most priority moves well.
 
Long term Thinking

I don't really understand what long-term thinking means in HO. Somewhere in this thread its said a person's meant to start thinking about which Pokemon he's going to sac, who he's going to sacrifice and who he's going to save. So lets say I have a lead DS Azelf who's going to Reflect against a LeadGross and the lead gross uses Bullet Punch. So how's the trainer going to think long term in this situation?
 

haunter

Banned deucer.
After reflect Azelf can take a second bullet punch from Meta, so you can just set up SR and then sac it, or set up a light screen and then proceed to set up one of your sweepers or just eliminate the Metagross with, say, Infernape.

Also guys, this thread is not meant to be a 2nd "rate my team", just post your team in the RMT forum if you want it rated.
 
Superpower is stronger than brick break though. You need that extra power to net some important KOs.
Also, brick break can be used for breaking screens, and with Scizors massive attack it can still leave a dent, I've noticed that scizor's gameplay requires co-operation with the rest of the team, so maybe brick break wouldnt be so bad. Maybe someone can ru na utility set, if there isnt one already, I wouldnt know, I make my own strategys =P
 
Also, brick break can be used for breaking screens, and with Scizors massive attack it can still leave a dent, I've noticed that scizor's gameplay requires co-operation with the rest of the team, so maybe brick break wouldnt be so bad. Maybe someone can ru na utility set, if there isnt one already, I wouldnt know, I make my own strategys =P

Even though Superpower will lower Attack and Defense, it is usually the preferred choice of Fighting-type move since even without a Swords Dance, it is powerful enough to OHKO common counters, such as Heatran and Magnezone, as they switch in something that Brick Break cannot usually do after Stealth damage alone.If the Attack and Defense drop is undesirable, then Brick Break is a viable alternative, although it’s rarely a better choice than Superpower. However, breaking Screens may be a plus for Brick Break but that wouldn't that give your opponent a free turn to set up/attack?
 
Superpower is basically for Skarmory. +2 KOs SpD Skarm and does 70ish to Defensive ones. If my opponent got screens up then either azelf(2nd fastest ds in the game) failed or they gave me the opportunity to set something up, so I am not especially worried about them.

Addressing stealth spiker's question, Gross doesn't do very good damage with bullet punch even before reflect. In fact it does less than mm under screens, so it is preferred that they bp. I think it does about 20%. After setting everything up on it, you bring in Scizor, SD, then OHKO Gross.

When I post a team it is simply to illustrate a HO strategy, not really to get a lot of fixes. Most people on the thread are still trying to understand the concept it seems, so posting example teams helps the newer players understand teambuilding concepts and gives the veterans something to talk about at the very least.
 
I've been noticing the Anti-Lead Dragonite set has been causing some problems for HO. Granted, I'm pretty terrible at OU now, but in the matches I've played, it forces Azelf to choose Light Screen or Reflect, as Draco Meteor + Extremespeed always 2HKOs. Mid-late game his Extremespeed and fighting resistance allows him to revenge kill Infernape, and he can do quite a lot to Salamence as well. Earthquake prevents Lucario from setting up on him after the special drop. Overall, Dragonite has picked off atleast 3 pokemon per match against HO.
 
I've been noticing the Anti-Lead Dragonite set has been causing some problems for HO. Granted, I'm pretty terrible at OU now, but in the matches I've played, it forces Azelf to choose Light Screen or Reflect, as Draco Meteor + Extremespeed always 2HKOs. Mid-late game his Extremespeed and fighting resistance allows him to revenge kill Infernape, and he can do quite a lot to Salamence as well. Earthquake prevents Lucario from setting up on him after the special drop. Overall, Dragonite has picked off atleast 3 pokemon per match against HO.
I've been have the same problems!
What should I change on my team to stop myself being swept?
 
After trying out the fighting HO team, I'm finding it lacking. I lost both battles I used it in, and it just seems to be lacking some bulk and the time to set up the SD needed, even with DS. I know that it isn't a refined team, but I found it is really prone to revenge killing, and some added bulk might help with that.
 
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