Pokémon Heliolisk

[gsumbreon]

I think Life orb is generally a bad choice for him in the Sun, because of his frailty, his typing, and how weak Parabolic Charge is. Honestly, that would only work in the rain when Dry Skin can help mitigate the damage.

If you compare his stats with everything else in OU, he has solid speed, but his Sp Att is a little lackluster. For perspective, he hits about as hard as Houndoom, uses either Nasty Plot to hit hard. Even so, Houndoom's analysis on Smogon opens with:

"Although it might seem like it doesn't pack enough power, Houndoom is still a viable Pokemon to use in the tier. Its unique typing and its amazing ability in the form of Flash Fire provide Houndoom with an amazing offensive STAB combination, and gives it the ability to resist or be immune to Chandelure's and Victini's STAB moves and proceed to either trap them with Pursuit or strike first with Sucker Punch."

Because of his fragility and lack of setup move (as far as we know now), he'll probably wind up with a niche as a UU revenge killer that sees some play in weather teams, which we don't know the tier status of right now. In OU, though, in order to hit hard enough, Specs will probably be 100% necessary.

 

[Fundance]

Solar power in the sun combined with Electric terrain is about the same benefit of a nasty plot, it just has to be set up in advance by another pokemon. Right now I'm furiously training a manectric so that I can get hold of electric terrain and do some experiments with it.

There's still some hope that it might learn something useful through egg moves. right now I don't think anyone has found egg moves for it at all. We know it can NOT learn flamethrower or dragon pulse through breeding, but what about flash cannon, solarbeam, dazzling gleam and the like?

Also, it does have decent special defense so maybe Charge could be seriously considered as an option in order to act as a pseudo boost move when anticipating a switch? It'll ensure that Volt Switch hits really hard on the way out, and it's not like you're going to sweep with that 110 base speed anyway.

According to the research thread it gets Dark Pulse too by TM. Maybe for threatening ghosts harder upon switch-in?

 

[Korlashh]

According to the research thread it gets Dark Pulse too by TM. Maybe for threatening ghosts harder upon switch-in?

It could be useful, just depends on what ghosts are common in its tier. It could hit Trevenant, Gourgeist, Rotom, and some psychics like Celebi; but Thunderbolt can still hit other ghosts pretty hard (and Grass Knot on Golurk) and another coverage move could be used in place of Dark pulse.

 

[Setotus]

Serebii has confirmed its stats I think, 109 sp.a and speed IIRC.

 

[Fundance]

Serebii said 'within an acceptable margin of error' so those stats may not be 100% accurate still.

 

[Siggu]

As of now it seems that Heliolisk wishes it were released in Gen V. It gets benefits from all three main weathers, has a high top Speed (Which could very well be higher than 108), good Special Attack, both Volt Switch and (A very weak) U-Turn, Grass Knot and a strong Water-type move most Electric-types lack...

 

[Fundance]

On the other hand it gets electric terrain to play around with, which people seriously need to start investigating because it has the potential to fuel a new playstyle, like gravity or trick room.

Anyway, I don't believe the nerf to weather will even be too significant. Weather setters are usually switching around so much that you rarely get scenarios where the weather will actually last 8 turns or more. And we can now have more than one weather setter on a weather team thanks to new pokemon getting Drought/Snow Warning/etc

Sticky web will be a huge problem for Heliolisk and probably a lot more important to keep off the field than rain or even stealth rock. Then again Sticky Web will be a problem for everybody..

 

[dantroid]

Anyone know if he can get Earth power through breeding?

 

[gsumbreon]

I'll update the move list when everything is actually confirmed, which is most likely when the official guides come out. Everything else is just what I've seen ingame with mine. Serebii says that they hope to have a lot up this weekend, so hopefully we'll know by then.

 

[WildShot]

Hmmm...

I say that this guy has the potential to become one of the best anti-rain Pokemon yet.

I want to nickname mine Yoshi. Maybe ZAPYoshi.

 

[Kyara]

Considering the animal it's based off lives in the desert, and one of Helios' abilities is sand veil, I'm really disappointed if it doesn't get earth power in some way.

 

[Celon]

Confirmed: Heliolisk learns Focus Blast through TM. I suppose this could be helpful against Steel types and opposing Heliolisk, but otherwise, there isn't much use for it.

 

[Lucium689]

I just bred my helioptile with a dragalga and it came out eith the move camouflage
If anyone else knows of any other egg moves can you let me know?

 

[Fundance]

Helioptile is in the MONSTER and DRAGON egg groups.

This means it can breed with Mareep, who in turn can breed with Electryke. Possible way for it to obtain Electric Terrain?

ET Electryke > Mareep > Helioptile?

That is assuming Mareep can get the move though, but considering it's a premier electric boon this gen I highly doubt it's limited solely to the magnemite and electryke family.

Possible other things to check for egg moves:

Earth Power from Nido family.
Disable and Me First from Lickitung family
Ancientpower from Cranidos family.
Agility from Treeko family (or any other agility user in the monster egg group)
Endeavor (lots of pokemon get this)
Hyper Voice from Whismurr family
Sand Tomb from Gible family
Glare and Mud Bomb from the Ekans family
Yawn from Kingdra
Work Up from Deino family
Power Gem from the Mareep family

I'm sure there's more but these are all the ones I want to test right away.

 

[Mood4food77]

this thing would be awesome if it could get earth power

i'm surprised he doesn't get sludge bomb, i mean he seems like one of those poison spitting raptors from jurassic park

 

[Whitman]

this thing would be awesome if it could get earth power

i'm surprised he doesn't get sludge bomb, i mean he seems like one of those poison spitting raptors from jurassic park

Well, that's actually because that dino is not venomous, or there are no way to know about that, at least. That wa a invent of the movie.

If heliolisk is in the Dragon group, could it learn Dragon Pulse?

 

[Fundance]

Someone already tried dragon pulse, dragonbreath and dragon dance and it could learn none of them unfortunately.

I've got a Nidorino. I could try to breed earth power.

 

[Copes]

Someone already tried dragon pulse, dragonbreath and dragon dance and it could learn none of them unfortunately.

I've got a Nidorino. I could try to breed earth power.

I would be very interested in your results.

 

[Siggu]

Well, that's actually because that dino is not venomous, or there are no way to know about that, at least. That wa a invent of the movie.

Not only it wasn't venomous but the real one didn't have a frill, so Sludge Bomb wouldn't have made sense anyway (But since Heliolisk already has two abilities that make little sense such as Dry Skin and Sand Veil...)

I'm quite disappointed Heliolisk does not get a good special Normal-type move (As far as we know) but, then again... what move of that kind would fit on a frilled lizard/basilisk? Tri Attack?

 

[Celon]

Not only it wasn't venomous but the real one didn't have a frill, so Sludge Bomb wouldn't have made sense anyway (But since Heliolisk already has two abilities that make little sense such as Dry Skin and Sand Veil...)

I'm quite disappointed Heliolisk does not get a good special Normal-type move (As far as we know) but, then again... what move of that kind would fit on a frilled lizard/basilisk? Tri Attack?

Considering Heliolisk's current movepool, it wouldn't need a Normal-type move to add on coverage, seeing as Thunderbolt, Surf, Grass Knot, and Hidden Power Ice give the lizard considerable coverage as it is. Still, I am disappointed Heliolisk doesn't get something like Ice Beam, seeing that Hidden Power Ice is really weak, but also Heliolisk's only means of countering Dragons such as Salamence.

 

[Fundance]

Not to mention grass types. Without HP ice it's surprisingly ineffective against them.

 

[silenced]

Its a bit disappointing it didn't get heat wave then, since that would make a great deal of sense for a lizard in a hot desert, or so I would've thought. Perhaps there will be further move tuition in later games to fix that.

 

[Fundance]

Maybe it does get heat wave. Does Charmander learn it through level up?
That said HP ice is still probably better, because Heat Wave won't help you against dragons.

 

[Celon]

Maybe it does get heat wave. Does Charmander learn it through level up?
That said HP ice is still probably better, because Heat Wave won't help you against dragons.

Charizard can learn Heat Wave, at a very high level though. Still, the only use Heat Wave would have on Heliolsik is if Heliolisk was running Solar Power.

 

[silenced]

Not necessarily. Electric, fire and ice together score perfect neutral coverage, I'm pretty sure. Yes its unfortunate if you're using dry skin under rain, but outside of that its still pretty good.