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I gotta say Bullet Seed is extremely viable as well. It secures the KO against the Keldeos, Azumarills and the Rotoms, amongst other things. I've been testing it out recently and I gotta say, it's pretty damn useful.
I got a pretty good match here, I peaked 1862 with this team. And NO, the Murkrow is not there for the sole purpose of countering BP teams. Believe it or not, Murkrow is a good pokemon.
I gotta say Bullet Seed is extremely viable as well. It secures the KO against the Keldeos, Azumarills and the Rotoms, amongst other things. I've been testing it out recently and I gotta say, it's pretty damn useful.
I got a pretty good match here, I peaked 1862 with this team. And NO, the Murkrow is not there for the sole purpose of countering BP teams. Believe it or not, Murkrow is a good pokemon.
Substitute. Substitute on Heracross is pretty damn good, but my team in particular was having a lot of difficulty with Keldeo and Azumarill. I run Pin Missile, Rock Blast, Earthquake, Bullet Seed currently. If Aegislash didn't exist, i'd probably run Close Combat.
Substitute. Substitute on Heracross is pretty damn good, but my team in particular was having a lot of difficulty with Keldeo and Azumarill. I run Pin Missile, Rock Blast, Earthquake, Bullet Seed currently. If Aegislash didn't exist, i'd probably run Close Combat.
I think that missing out on Close Combat isn't a good idea on a Pokemon with such a powerful one... but, whatever. If it's working for you, cool!
Also, fyi, Close Combat OHKO's Keldeo after Stealth Rock, Pin Missile will 2HKO Rotom-W, and Azumarill will be 2HKO'd by Rock Blast. But, if your team doesn't need fighting moves for whatever reason, Seed is alright.
I think that missing out on Close Combat isn't a good idea on a Pokemon with such a powerful one... but, whatever. If it's working for you, cool!
Also, fyi, Close Combat OHKO's Keldeo after Stealth Rock, Pin Missile will 2HKO Rotom-W, and Azumarill will be 2HKO'd by Rock Blast. But, if your team doesn't need fighting moves for whatever reason, Seed is alright.
The thing is with Keldeo and Azumarill, I always ended up in the situation where I needed to take them out and Rock Blast/Eartquake would barely fall short... I get exactly the point you're trying to make, and it's completely valid, but like I said I experienced that precise situation over and over again.
And it's true, there are several times where I miss Close Combat, a 120 base STAB fighting move coming from Megacross insane atk is crazy... but things that I usually hit with it I can also hit with Earthquake. Except for Skarmory, Skarmory can be an issue (I do have thundurus, but you know, its easier said than done). I don't know, i've been using Megacross for a while now, and his moveset has been constantly changing. Pin Missile and Rock Blast are most definitely staples though.
But yeah Close Combat is an outstanding move for him. No doubt about that.
Use a Magnezone or Gothithelle for getting rid of Skarmory, Scizor and Rotom-W. Bullet Seed is overall inferior to Substitute or Swords Dance, as after a Swords Dance nothing isn't ohko or 2hko.
Use a Magnezone or Gothithelle for getting rid of Skarmory, Scizor and Rotom-W. Bullet Seed is overall inferior to Substitute or Swords Dance, as after a Swords Dance nothing isn't ohko or 2hko.
Gothitelle is actually not a bad idea, not a bad idea at all. The thing is, I don't run a "fast" Heracross and I have no sticky web support or anything like that, so setting up a Swords Dance seems like it serves a rather difficult purpose in my case. I just really like being able to OHKO azumarill and rotom-w off the bat to be honest. Even though going up against a Rotom-W with Heracross is something I only do if I haven't mega evolved yet (so I most likely outspeed with the little speed investment I have), since I have a heal bell user I don't fear the burn all that much.
The problem with using Heracross is how easily it gets forced out, even with its huge attacking threat. Most sets have either of CC or EQ, never both. Once the opponent figures out which one is missing, he sends the appropriate counter à la Skarmory,Aegislash or whatever.
Also, rocks means Heracross isn't switchable much, this coupled with the lack of recovery makes its bulk meaningless in a short space of time. Hence the only time I find use for it is a very late game finisher.
The problem with using Heracross is how easily it gets forced out, even with its huge attacking threat. Most sets have either of CC or EQ, never both. Once the opponent figures out which one is missing, he sends the appropriate counter à la Skarmory,Aegislash or whatever.
Also, rocks means Heracross isn't switchable much, this coupled with the lack of recovery makes its bulk meaningless in a short space of time. Hence the only time I find use for it is a very late game finisher.
The problem with using Heracross is how easily it gets forced out, even with its huge attacking threat. Most sets have either of CC or EQ, never both. Once the opponent figures out which one is missing, he sends the appropriate counter à la Skarmory,Aegislash or whatever.
Also, rocks means Heracross isn't switchable much, this coupled with the lack of recovery makes its bulk meaningless in a short space of time. Hence the only time I find use for it is a very late game finisher.
I completely disagree, the most use I find out of Heracross is at the beginning of the game. If you have good switch ins such as Heatran, Vaporeon, etc Then you're fine. Heracross is meant to be a Hit-then get the fuck out of there pokemon. With para support, and a few other tricks like priority tailwind and such, he becomes a huge threat the entire match. 1 on 1 there are few things that will win agaisnt heracross. Wish support is also extremely useful, since Heracross can switch in on many attacks and live even after being worn down.
Agreed, but I find running Heracross with Substitute is most effective, hence one of the two gets dropped. Of course, if its a Hit-and-Run variety, both is pretty nice but it just makes me lose momentum when I have a non-defensive Mega-Evo switching out.
I completely disagree, the most use I find out of Heracross is at the beginning of the game. If you have good switch ins such as Heatran, Vaporeon, etc Then you're fine. Heracross is meant to be a Hit-then get the fuck out of there pokemon. With para support, and a few other tricks like priority tailwind and such, he becomes a huge threat the entire match. 1 on 1 there are few things that will win agaisnt heracross. Wish support is also extremely useful, since Heracross can switch in on many attacks and live even after being worn down.
This. You don't have to win against cleaner at the end of games. The only set that can do that is the Jolly max speed with Sticky web support (which outspeeds everything grounded but Mega Alakazam already evolved. But this is another story. Generally, you're not supposed to switch in Stealth Rock 4 times.
The purpose is to come in and hit things hard. Mega Heracross is almost impossible to switch in (unless you're a retard, once you see Aegislash, you should know what to do), and, as RandomSpanishGuy is saying, very difficult to beat one on one. Either if you punch holes on the switch-ins, or you win a 1 on 1 matchup with a huge threat to your team, you have a positive dividend coming to you.
Only very strong STAB super effective hits can OHKO Megacross, and once you have a solid answer to Flying Moves, you're done.
I gotta say Bullet Seed is extremely viable as well. It secures the KO against the Keldeos, Azumarills and the Rotoms, amongst other things. I've been testing it out recently and I gotta say, it's pretty damn useful.
I got a pretty good match here, I peaked 1862 with this team. And NO, the Murkrow is not there for the sole purpose of countering BP teams. Believe it or not, Murkrow is a good pokemon.
Wow your team is amazing, I like the strategy. Paralyze everything you can with prankster Thundurus and Murkrow and then sweep with M-Heracross. Not cookie-cutter at all and pretty original. The role Murkrow plays is similar to Politoed on Rain Teams, switch in, set up Tailwind or Twave and let the superstar finish up.
I gotta say Bullet Seed is extremely viable as well. It secures the KO against the Keldeos, Azumarills and the Rotoms, amongst other things. I've been testing it out recently and I gotta say, it's pretty damn useful.
I got a pretty good match here, I peaked 1862 with this team. And NO, the Murkrow is not there for the sole purpose of countering BP teams. Believe it or not, Murkrow is a good pokemon.
I really like your team, first off! At first it looks like you just dismiss it because of Murkrow, but wow, I found that replay very entertaining! But, Keldeo, Azumarill, and Rotom cannot switch in safely anyways:
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 240-285 (59.4 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 188-222 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 307-363 (95 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 285-335 (93.7 - 110.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 210-245 (69 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I don't see the appeal of Bullet Seed at all, as Close Combat / Pin Missile / Earthquake / Rock Blast hits everything that Bullet Seed does as well. Bullet Seed can be good, I just don't see the appeal. But anyways, love the team again!
Wow your team is amazing, I like the strategy. Paralyze everything you can with prankster Thundurus and Murkrow and then sweep with M-Heracross. Not cookie-cutter at all and pretty original. The role Murkrow plays is similar to Politoed on Rain Teams, switch in, set up Tailwind or Twave and let the superstar finish up.
Thanks a lot man, you pretty much got the concept behind it. =] The thing is the pokemon I end the game with depends on the matchup I encounter, Heracross can do some damage initially and weaken stuff up for a Scarfed Drill sweep, or I can set up a late game tailwind to erradicate everything with Cross. The whole idea is that Megacross takes up various roles, he deals some good damage at the beginning, and once worn down, he still has the potential to sweep due to the double prankster para support and the tailwind "ace". I'm pretty proud of this team to be honest, and I truly appreciate comments like yours since, up to date, this was the hardest team for me to build.
Trying to construct an original team that can hang up there with the standard stuff is always an extremely fun challenge, and one of the things I enjoy doing the most in this game.
I really like your team, first off! At first it looks like you just dismiss it because of Murkrow, but wow, I found that replay very entertaining! But, Keldeo, Azumarill, and Rotom cannot switch in safely anyways:
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 240-285 (59.4 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 188-222 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 307-363 (95 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 285-335 (93.7 - 110.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 210-245 (69 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I don't see the appeal of Bullet Seed at all, as Close Combat / Pin Missile / Earthquake / Rock Blast hits everything that Bullet Seed does as well. Bullet Seed can be good, I just don't see the appeal. But anyways, love the team again!
The appeal I see in Bullet Seed is the fact that it can ensure a OHKO on a Rotom-W or an Azumarill at the beginning of the match, the problem isn't handling switch ins, it's being able to switch into that particular threat and eliminate it at max health.
Regardless, i'm still debating whether I should just go with Close Combat, the problem is I don't like that defense drop to be honest, but it's still one of the best options without a doubt.
So basically i'm still not 100% sure onto what the final 4th move will be. Thanks for your input though, and of course thanks for the comment, it's awesome to see people complimenting my team. =]
Thanks a lot man, you pretty much got the concept behind it. =] The thing is the pokemon I end the game with depends on the matchup I encounter, Heracross can do some damage initially and weaken stuff up for a Scarfed Drill sweep, or I can set up a late game tailwind to erradicate everything with Cross. The whole idea is that Megacross takes up various roles, he deals some good damage at the beginning, and once worn down, he still has the potential to sweep due to the double prankster para support and the tailwind "ace". I'm pretty proud of this team to be honest, and I truly appreciate comments like yours since, up to date, this was the hardest team for me to build.
Trying to construct an original team that can hang up there with the standard stuff is always an extremely fun challenge, and one of the things I enjoy doing the most in this game.
The appeal I see in Bullet Seed is the fact that it can ensure a OHKO on a Rotom-W or an Azumarill at the beginning of the match, the problem isn't handling switch ins, it's being able to switch into that particular threat and eliminate it at max health.
Regardless, i'm still debating whether I should just go with Close Combat, the problem is I don't like that defense drop to be honest, but it's still one of the best options without a doubt.
So basically i'm still not 100% sure onto what the final 4th move will be. Thanks for your input though, and of course thanks for the comment, it's awesome to see people complimenting my team. =]
No problem man! And yeah, I definitely recommend Close Combat, as Heracross is a hit-and-run Pokemon, and Close Combat has so much raw power it's insane.
Pin Missile: Ultimate power. It is actually very close to as powerful as Snorlax using Self-Destruct, to put that into perspective. The thing is, it has no recoil, it breaks substitutes, and it has 95 accuracy! The only problem is that seven types resist bug. However, there are plenty of ways to cover that. This move is the most important.
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-D: 310-370 (101.9 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 420-510 (103.9 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 255-300 (70 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 360-425 (137.4 - 162.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 290-350 (103.9 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Latias: 460-550 (126.3 - 151%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 395-470 (102.8 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gothitelle: 610-730 (216.3 - 258.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. -6 0 HP / 0- Def Smoochum: 551580-648930 (4596500 - 5407750%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Close Combat: Close Combat is almost as powerful as Pin Missile, however, it does not break substitutes, and it lowers both defenses after being used. However, with the fighting typing, only poison, flying, ghost, and fairy types resist the duo. While that's pretty pathetic, it CAN 2HKO Skarmory, which is an incredible thing for a physical attacker to do with a neutral hit. Fighting is one of the best offensive types in the game.
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 746-878 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 336-396 (95.4 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 536-632 (138.8 - 163.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 232-274 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 211-249 (61.3 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 294-346 (71 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Rock Blast: Rock Blast is not as powerful as the two above it, but it kills flying types and provides perfect mono-type coverage in combination with those two. With Pin Missile only, it fails to beat steel and fighting types, which is also pretty bad. However, with good prediction, it can OHKO Talonflame, Charizard, and much more. This makes Heracross very difficult to switch into. This move is almost essential.
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 680-820 (250 - 301.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 360-430 (120.8 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 1040-1240 (348.9 - 416.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 530-630 (176.6 - 210%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 280-330 (66 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 220-260 (68.7 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 255-305 (64.7 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Earthquake: This move is the weakest, however, it covers Aegislash, and other steel types if Close Combat is dropped. However, Skarmory becomes a major problem. With Pin Missile, it gets neutrality on all mono-types except flying, which Rock Blast covers. Something to note, also, is that nine out of forty-eight Pokemon currently in OU are weak to ground, while eighteen resist or are immune to it (not to mention, Air Balloons can cover some of these weaknesses). Ground is not as scary as it used to be, actually.
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 220-260 (67.9 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 596-704 (154.4 - 182.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 260-306 (85.5 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Bullet Seed: Bullet Seed sees the least use, however, people seem to neglect what an advantage it gives Heracross. First of all, in combination with Close Combat, the SkarmChansSire core can be torn apart, with all but Skarmory being OHKO'd. Also, against Rotom-W (and the rare Jellicent), Will-O-Wisp gets blocked by an instant KO from Bullet Seed. Not to mention, besides Earthquake, this is the only viable move Heracross has that doesn't miss and doesn't have a negative effect.
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 640-760 (162.4 - 192.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 380-450 (125 - 148%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 340-410 (93.9 - 113.2%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 480-570 (118.8 - 141%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 440-520 (136.2 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 390-470 (84 - 101.2%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
Of these five attacking moves, you can pick what you want, depending on what your team needs help with. It's really not even worth arguing which moves are the "best". Obviously, they all have their pros and cons. Pin Missile is the best move, I think, because it's so incredibly powerful, but the typing of the move really brings it down. Earthquake hits a few things that it can't hit normally, but beyond those few things, it sees no use. Bullet Seed is similar, but it is resisted by a whole lot. Close Combat finds competition with Earthquake on how to kill a few things, and while it's much more powerful, it has negative effects. Rock Blast is, well, I think that one is the second most important, I can't really come up with a reason not to use it. It DOES have the least accuracy, though.
All the moves are great! It really just depends on what coverage you need.
the conckledur uses drain punch because it can gain health back , if it had to decide between harmmer arm and brick brake i bet it would choose hammer arm , arm thrust besides trying to pass subs is really lackbuster and since heracross is bulky you will take a hit and ohko back with close combat , i rarely use close combat anyway no one likes to bring things weak to fighting vs heracross i dropped pin missile for earthquake i run bulk up,close combate,rock blast and EQ, the stuff you would use pin missile is very rare now that fairy has yet another bug resist.
I really wish heracross learned drain punch it would be amazing for the bulk up set
Of course it'd choose hammer arm, Conk doesn't have any speed anyway. You'd run a bulky attacking set with hammer arm, mach punch, EQ and filler more likely. The better Question would have been Brick Break or Superpower. (Or more on topic of Close Combat of Course)
Superpower, maybe as a Banded Superpower could wreck some stuff and then swap out right away, but that definitely is an unusual style of combat for Conk and there's better things he could do with a band anyway.
But, giving up one of heracross' STABS is really counter intuitive as the pokemon really appreciates the 1.5x boost. Even a resisted Pin Missile hits hard... Especially after +1 or 2
I've tried it myself as well.
STAB Focus Punch coming off a base 185 Atk is insanely powerful.
I went Sub, FP, Pin Missile, Rock Blast. If you want better coverage, sub Pin missile for Bullet seed.
I've used megacross as a shellpass recipient (from smeargle) and it granted me some 6-0 sweeps. Having 4 accurate atacks with 120-125 power is pretty sweet coming from that attack stat at +2. And it can even take some priority moves even with its defenses lowered.
Mega Heracross doesn't need to run both of its STABs, because Bug+Fighting is the most redundant STAB combination in the game, being resisted by not one, not two, not three, but four types (Ghost, Poison, Fairy and Flying).
Earthquake is mandatory to get past Aegislash, so if you want to run SD the best two moves to complement it are either Close Combat+Rock Blast or Pin Missle+Rock Blast.
Mega Heracross doesn't need to run both of its STABs, because Bug+Fighting is the most redundant STAB combination in the game, being resisted by not one, not two, not three, but four types (Ghost, Poison, Fairy and Flying).
Earthquake is mandatory to get past Aegislash, so if you want to run SD the best two moves to complement it are either Close Combat+Rock Blast or Pin Missle+Rock Blast.
Running Swords Dance is only truly viable on a Jolly Heracross with Sticky Web support. Close Combat hits very very hard even if it's resisted. Bullet seed is pretty damn useful for a handful of pokes, but I've come to realize that a STAB 120 base move on Megacross, that can 2HKO pokes that resist it (that quadresist bug) is definitely worth it. Like I said, I still like Bullet Seed, but the I find Close Combat a tiny bit more useful, especially for a late game tailwind sweep, or to take down the common chansey-skarmory wall core.
